Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I mean, sure, once a soft thrown bomb has come to a complete stop it won't activate on an opponent's hurtbox, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. As we all know, bombs start flashing super early which is really off-putting. If it's bad for us, then imagine what's going through the opponent's mind when they see the soft thrown bomb immediately start flashing. For the entire duration that it's there, they're expecting it to explode at any moment. I've also never really had any difficulty with people using my bombs against me because the range that the bomb gets thrown can be covered by, well everything Link has, and if you mix up the amount of time you cook the bomb, then that keeps them on their toes expecting the worst when you haven't cooked it.

Anyway, more to your point, I would have to agree that according to the facts, it would be beneficial in a neutral situation if we cook our bombs more often before we throw them. This will make shielded bombs and soft thrown bombs that much more potent for forcing errors due to people dropping their shields, and it will then mean that they will respect the bombs more and be forced to roll away or continue to hold shield if a bomb hits it. Keep in mind that bombs do extra damage if they hit indirectly, so if we end up hitting them more with the explosions caused by the fuse running out right in front of them while being thrown this can only benefit us.
The trouble with cooking bombs however is that our options are somewhat depleted while holding them, which could hurt not only our spam wall but in general will make us more open to being rushed down.
I mean, I certainly wouldn't be immediately throwing any bombs at a shield if I see a shield up 'because it's keeping on the pressure'. No, just no. That's a waste of a bomb and you're applying much more pressure on them by standing outside cooking your bomb, and then you can throw it at them if they persist in their strategy. I think if we factored in little things like that, then we'd start seeing our bombs becoming more effective.

 

[Sabaca]

I guess if we get used to fullhop while pulling a bomb we can immidietly drop it on the ground in order to cook it without depleting our options. We even increase our options , since we can simply pick it up or instant throw it with no startup.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
What i use regularly but didn't find anywhere in these boards is ledge cancelling Links Specials.
This way i can reduce the lag of pulling a bomb / throwing out a projectile sometimes and make my camping game more effective.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I guess if we get used to fullhop while pulling a bomb we can immidietly drop it on the ground in order to cook it without depleting our options. We even increase our options , since we can simply pick it up or instant throw it with no startup.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
What i use regularly but didn't find anywhere in these boards is ledge cancelling Links Specials.
This way i can reduce the lag of pulling a bomb / throwing out a projectile sometimes and make my camping game more effective.

I have to agree actually on the full hop bomb pull z-drops in theory. We can then do aerials while holding the bomb for example or just get on with whatever other option we need to use at that time. This will not only allow us to continue our spacing game and meet rush-down tactics head on, but it will take up time while we're cooking. I'm not suggesting that we do this every time, but I'm certainly all for the idea of implementing more of this type of thing into our gameplay. Basically, we need to be more aware of the fact that fresh bombs are less of a threat.

Last time I checked, you can't ledge cancel Link's projectiles. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Can you link me to a post or a thread or a vid so I know we're talking about the same thing?

 

[Dumbfire]

I know you can ledgehop bomb pull -- but that doesn't reduce lag does it?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I know you can ledgehop bomb pull -- but that doesn't reduce lag does it?

No it doesn't. I know what 'ledge cancelling' is. It's basically where you use a move in such a way that you slide off the edge of a platform or the stage while doing it, and it puts you back into your neutral state, i.e. completely cancels all lag. But you can't do this with the boomerang or the bomb pull; the fact that you can't ledge cancel them makes the boomerang glide and the f-bomb possible, but neither of these cut out any lag, rather they give you a small boost of momentum. And arrows won't ever let you slide off the edge. So I'm wondering what he means by 'ledge cancel'.

 

[Sabaca]

I was mistaken. It actually doesn't cancel the specials as you stated correctly. It seemed to cancel it due to my timing when sliding off the edge.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Btw, I'm not sure about this, but is there any difference in a UTilt and Pivot UTilt? I'm noticing it's easier to follow a long range Jab 1 that's canceled if I pivot UTilt in training (The Utilt seems to miss), but I'm not sure whether I'm not interpreting it correctly.

Maybe I'm missing something here with the soft bomb throw conversation. So I'm trying the following.

Link + Samus in training. Link throws bomb on Samus's normal shield. Samus releases shield and shoots charged shot. The bomb seems to be blocking the charged shot even while bouncing. Seems to work when I soft throw the bomb at Samus as well. What's exactly missing here? If the enemy picks up the bomb, I generally find it to be their loss. It's the same reason I don't care too much whether Villager pockets a bomb. It takes time to pick up/retrieve the bomb, and then throw it. In that time they can't do anything else.

Also soft dropped bombs can be used to pick up bombs after a dash attack.


Hahahaha, why is everyone profile pic of Shaq xD. Interesting April Fool's thing.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Btw, I'm not sure about this, but is there any difference in a UTilt and Pivot UTilt? I'm noticing it's easier to follow a long range Jab 1 that's canceled if I pivot UTilt in training (The Utilt seems to miss), but I'm not sure whether I'm not interpreting it correctly.

Maybe I'm missing something here with the soft bomb throw conversation. So I'm trying the following.

Link + Samus in training. Link throws bomb on Samus's normal shield. Samus releases shield and shoots charged shot. The bomb seems to be blocking the charged shot even while bouncing. Seems to work when I soft throw the bomb at Samus as well. What's exactly missing here? If the enemy picks up the bomb, I generally find it to be their loss. It's the same reason I don't care too much whether Villager pockets a bomb. It takes time to pick up/retrieve the bomb, and then throw it. In that time they can't do anything else.

Also soft dropped bombs can be used to pick up bombs after a dash attack.


Hahahaha, why is everyone profile pic of Shaq xD. Interesting April Fool's thing.

I don't know whether I should take your post seriously or not.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I don't know whether I should take your post seriously or not.

Um why? I'm asking an actual question? Basically I'm trying to understand the soft bomb throw convo (where you're saying it's sometimes inactive), and a general question about UTilt (is the hitbox in the back part larger than that of the front).

 

[FSK]

Um why? I'm asking an actual question? Basically I'm trying to understand the soft bomb throw convo (where you're saying it's sometimes inactive), and a general question about UTilt (is the hitbox in the back part larger than that of the front).

heres the hit-boxes for Link in brawl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb5amTV1fuc

Its probably the same in smash 4.

 

[Koby_T]

I'm not exactly sure if this was assumed knowledge based on whether or not Link's bombs always behaved this way, but I learned something about the launch trajectories today.

It would seem as though the bombs always launch up and away from the side the explosion was on. This is pretty straight forward when you throw a bomb directly at someone but is less obvious when throwing up or down. It's easiest to see on a character like DK, but if you throw the bomb down and it hits the front half of the character model they fly up and backwards. They go up and forwards if you hit the back half of the model. I used Bomb>Dair the other day to edgeguard and it got me thinking about whether that was guaranteed or not....basically no, but fairly reliable.

This also applies to when someone is holding a bomb. Link for instance, launches up and back when standing and holding a bomb. The same is true if the bomb explodes during a jump; however, when he pirouettes during his 2nd jump, the bomb is at the back of his model and launches him up and forward. He is also launched forward during jump squat and landing lag. He might also be launched forward while in his launch animation. It happened to me and saved me from an F-Smash at >150% but I haven't sat down and tested that.

So...there's an anecdotal, questionably useful, observation for us.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Um why? I'm asking an actual question? Basically I'm trying to understand the soft bomb throw convo (where you're saying it's sometimes inactive)

I was just being careful due to april fools and all. Anyway,

Maybe I'm missing something here with the soft bomb throw conversation. So I'm trying the following.

Link + Samus in training. Link throws bomb on Samus's normal shield. Samus releases shield and shoots charged shot. The bomb seems to be blocking the charged shot even while bouncing. Seems to work when I soft throw the bomb at Samus as well. What's exactly missing here?

Also soft dropped bombs can be used to pick up bombs after a dash attack.

I think I see the problem here now that you've clarified your point. 'Inactive' just means the bomb won't detect hurboxes. It can still absorb hitboxes and I don't remember saying otherwise.

As to the last sentence I have quoted, I have no idea what you mean. Read literally it looks to me like you're saying that you can drop a bomb after a dash attack in order to pick a bomb up. So I'm obviously misunderstanding this. Are you perhaps saying that you can pick up soft thrown bombs with dash attack?

 

[Irisz]

Don't mind me slowly creeping through the forums

I have no idea if anyone has mentioned edge cancelling the end lag of an arrow shot or Zair. Couldn't find it in the spoilers.
Just experiment on Battlefield and you can probs do it if you have an idea of how edge cancelling works in Melee I guess

I can see Zair edge cancel being useful, as you can cancel any point in Zair to follow up with something (fast fall > any grounded option?)

 

[Elessar]

Don't mind me slowly creeping through the forums

I have no idea if anyone has mentioned edge cancelling the end lag of an arrow shot or Zair. Couldn't find it in the spoilers.
Just experiment on Battlefield and you can probs do it if you have an idea of how edge cancelling works in Melee I guess

I can see Zair edge cancel being useful, as you can cancel any point in Zair to follow up with something (fast fall > any grounded option?)

The problem with edge cancelling zair is that I can't imagine a situation common enough (not to say even a feasible one) where it would be used. Zair is used for spacing in the neutral, and you can even use it for Gimping, but not when you're in a platform or edge guarding.

I could be wrong, but I really can't see at least zair edge cancelling being useful.

 

[Kelby Trace]

I've mained as Link since Melee. Why I've only just started into the world of competitive smash I'm still giving it my all to play as Link, the only downside of this is my aggressive play style. Anytime I go in for a quick jab or really any sword focused attack and my opponent throws up a shield or doges, Links slow attack cool down leaves me wide open. Anybody out there got some tips for a young smasher?

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I've mained as Link since Melee. Why I've only just started into the world of competitive smash I'm still giving it my all to play as Link, the only downside of this is my aggressive play style. Anytime I go in for a quick jab or really any sword focused attack and my opponent throws up a shield or doges, Links slow attack cool down leaves me wide open. Anybody out there got some tips for a young smasher?

Quick jabs are nice but can leave you vulnerable. Just about every character is like that. You play too aggressive and you will get punished. Sounds more like you're going in for constant attacks rather than spacing, defending yourself, and waiting for openings as well as reading the openings before they happen. It's the basics for EVERY character in the game. But ask yourself these questions:

• Do you find yourself attacking opponents who are already shielding?
• Do you attempt to grab opponents who are shielding (or grab at all)?
• Do you find yourself trying to "beat" the other guy to the first hit?
• Do you try to attack the opponent constantly while he keeps juggling you?
• What do you do when you're in close quarters?
• What do you do when you're far away (or when they're running from you)?
• What do you do when they're knocked off the edge or in the air?
• What do you do when they are attacking and/or overwhelming you?
• Do you adapt to different situations, or do you stick to the same tactics throughout the whole match?
• Since you're aggressive, do you make any use of his projectiles?
• Do you find yourself making use of bombs effectively?
• (Here's a big one) How much do you roll?

There's countless questions you should be asking yourself to determine where your downfall is. Aggression isn't a downfall. I play an aggressive Link and I do perfectly fine. But there's a time and place for aggression in each match. You have to learn when to be aggressive and when to be defensive. Especially since Smash 4 has buffed the defensive options. Link has a sword and shield for a reason (he's also got a lot of tools).

If possible, show us a couple videos of your matches so we can figure out where exactly you're going wrong. If you can't then like I said, ask yourself those questions. It's just tough to help you if I can't see what you're doing.

Edit: There's chock full of info on this thread. I suggest taking a nice read down info lane. Welcome to the boards.

 

[Kelby Trace]

Quick jabs are nice but can leave you vulnerable. Just about every character is like that. You play too aggressive and you will get punished. Sounds more like you're going in for constant attacks rather than spacing, defending yourself, and waiting for openings as well as reading the openings before they happen. It's the basics for EVERY character in the game. But ask yourself these questions:

• Do you find yourself attacking opponents who are already shielding?
• Do you attempt to grab opponents who are shielding (or grab at all)?
• Do you find yourself trying to "beat" the other guy to the first hit?
• What do you do when you're in close quarters?
• What do you do when you're far away (or when they're running from you)?
• What do you do when they're knocked off the edge or in the air?
• Do you adapt to different situations, or do you stick to the same tactics throughout the whole match?
• Since you're aggressive, do you make any use of his projectiles?
• Do you find yourself making use of bombs effectively?
• (Here's a big one) How much do you roll?

There's countless questions you should be asking yourself to determine where your downfall is. Aggression isn't a downfall. I play an aggressive Link and I do perfectly fine. But there's a time and place for aggression in each match. You have to learn when to be aggressive and when to be defensive. Especially since Smash 4 has buffed the defensive options. Link has a sword and shield for a reason (he's also got a lot of tools).

If possible, show us a couple videos of your matches so we can figure out where exactly you're going wrong. If you can't then like I said, ask yourself those questions. It's just tough to help you if I can't see what you're doing.

I can't get a video at the moment so instead I'll personally answer your questions. But first I'd like to say besides some very small tournaments at local comic book shops and playing online, I've not done much competitive play, although I'm doing everything I can to get into it and find more challenge so thanks for your help. Now lets get to those questions...

1. This is something I really try to avoid but with links attacks that can't be cancelled half way through I do run into this problem a lot.

2. yes, I do tend to grab a bit but not as much as I think I should, at the young age of 14 I've only just mastered the basics and started getting into the wonderful world of grabs, dodges, combos and ect.. That and I'm very cautious with links grab due to the massive penalty for missing ( reeling in the hookshot).

3. to a degree, I know when it's best to retreat but I do tend to rush in for hits I probably shouldn't rush into.

4. When in close quarters I'll either resort for sword attacks if I'm in the lead, or roll to the edge ( on omega stages) and use ranged attacks if I'm at high percentage.

5. I'm notorious for using Links arrows with great accuracy and using them to rack up massive damage at long range, if their only a half a stage away I'll throw in a boomerang to mix things up.

6. if I'm knocked to the far right I'll first pull out a bomb just in case my first up-B doesn't get me back to safety. But if in range I'll generally try to use my hookshot recovery instead of my up-B

7. Yes, or at least I try, I'll stick to my sword for awhile, than move to ranged attacks and sometimes go in for a grab if I'm feeling lucky.

8. Yes, while I'm by no means a master I've defiantly got more down than mashing the buttons. As previously mentioned I'm decent with arrows and at least know how to properly use the boomerang. The bombs are my down fall, I just can't make good work of them. The aggressive style comes in when I'm forced to work at close range, I'm just not good at finding openings and keeping myself from becoming open.

9. As I said, I have been practicing but I'm really having trouble getting the bombs down
"Use bombs wisely" ~Peppy hare 1997

10. Yes, a lot, Links forward roll tends to cause me trouble due to its slow execution and reversing your direction, but I can make great use of Link's back roll and use it and every useful opportunity. Thanks for the help bro, please give your opinion and reply back and I'll see if I can get a recording anytime soon!

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Well it sounds like you have a decent understanding of Link's mechanics. But that's only half of it. You need to be able to execute accordingly.

Words of advice:
Too much rolling is a very bad habit. If your opponent is the type to be rolling every 5 seconds, read the roll and punish him.

Try to avoid camping. Like I said, Link has a sword for a reason. His close range game is wonderful now. He just has a lot of tools at his disposal.

Arrows are great in their own way but be sure that you're making use of (and being creative with) Boomerangs. They help keep pressure as well as set up combos and sometimes grabs. Personally, I almost never throw a boomerang while on the ground. I almost always short hop into rangs so I maintain some mobility while still keeping pressure on the opponent as I approach or flee. My goal is to always keep Link moving. One of my absolute favorite combos is short hopping into a boomerang into short hop F-air. This NOT a true combo but pulling it off is very rewarding at very low percents. Just an example. Bombs are the real flower in my opinion. They can do what boomerang does, except they can be thrown at better angles and can set 2 at a time. Making use of bombs can help you control the stage and stop dedicated rushing characters in their tracks (like C. Falcon). Being creative by z-dropping bombs and soft throwing bombs can force opponents to make decisions that can allow you to easily read and punish them.

This is all my perspective, mind you. It's very possible to play very different from another Link so there may be different opinions based on their playstyles. Need videos though. Even using a phone (if you have one) to take the video of a couple FG matches on your TV would be enough. Like I said, I suggest reading everything on the OP to give you a better explanation of his metagame as a whole.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I have no idea if anyone has mentioned edge cancelling the end lag of an arrow shot or Zair. Couldn't find it in the spoilers.
Just experiment on Battlefield and you can probs do it if you have an idea of how edge cancelling works in Melee I guess

I can see Zair edge cancel being useful, as you can cancel any point in Zair to follow up with something (fast fall > any grounded option?)

Actually this is pretty interesting. We haven't looked into this yet.

Edge cancelled Zair is alright I guess. It doesn't save heaps of lag or anything, but it does mean that we can act immediately out of Zair with an aerial. It's actually possible to register an edge cancelled Zair to straight Dair spike as a true combo in training mode. That's a pretty disgusting punish out of a hard read on the edge of the stage. Goddamn, every time I do it, it feels soo good (if you're getting a Nair instead of a Dair when you clearly hit down with the c/a-stick, you're inputting the Dair too early). On Battlefield you want to SH towards the edge of the stage when you are roughly under the middle of the side platforms. Then use Zair close to the ground while holding forwards, and then input the Dair once you slide off. It doesn't work on characters like Jiggs though (But other follow-ups like Nair will always be fine).

As for the arrows, they are difficult to edge cancel but I really like them purely because of all the lag it cancels. I believe it only works if you've actually fired the arrow, which is fine by me. It can only be done while falling off forwards and you need to actually be holding forwards. It allows you to do stuff like a FH double arrow. Lagless arrows are pretty neat just in general.


EDIT!!! Btw, I realised just then that we can use edge cancelling to bypass the lag we get from an airdodge Zair, meaning that we can use Zair while holding a Bomb and not have to worry about the lag.

 

[Dumbfire]

Does anybody know on which characters and on which percentages Jab1 into Dsmash is confirmed?

 

[Rizen]

Can we edge cancel Dair/Uair's landing lag?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Does anybody know on which characters and on which percentages Jab1 into Dsmash is confirmed?

Interesting question.
It's difficult to test this because you need to know just by looking at Link the exact frame at which you can first input D-smash. It's not like testing the Jab to Jab because I can't just hold down to see the exact frame that Link changes animations. I have a pretty good idea what it looks like though based on my previous experience with Jab 1.
I'm not about to do all characters now (that might end up being a future project) but I can give you an idea of what percentages you'd be looking at. I'm also not going to get percent specifics at this point.
It's difficult because even at 100%, your D-smash has to be absolutely frame perfect to hit Mario because Mario can Up-B and DJ, and so it becomes a matter of 'will you still get them anyway'. I'm pretty sure that if you're perfect, these options won't save Mario at this percent, but I'd much prefer it if these options couldn't even come out.
At 125%, DJ and Up-B won't even come out in time. Now let's see if I can narrow it down a little.
The same goes for 115%.
The same goes for 105%...
I checked 100% again, and sure enough, DJ came out. So there's a rough idea for you. As I said, I might make this a project in the (distant) future. It's much more difficult due to having to check multiple time to make sure that you did it frame perfectly instead of knowing that you're doing it perfectly, and I can see myself limiting the results to a gap of 5% as I have done above because of this.

Now I don't know how exactly you could even use this kind of data either tbh. I mean, I can almost guarantee you that you won't be doing frame perfect D-smashes out of a Jab in practice, and also in practise people don't always react early enough to these things or with the right option. So in reality, you'll see Marios escaping at over 125% and getting hit below 75% because of human error.
So you know, take this information along with all the salt.

Can we edge cancel Dair/Uair's landing lag?

I don't believe so.

 

[Rizen]

Utilt is 1 frame faster to start than Dsmash, hits above Link and ends much soon so it's probably the best jab cancel followup until high %s.

I don't believe so.

Darn, that would have been useful.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Utilt is 1 frame faster to start than Dsmash, hits above Link and ends much soon so it's probably the best jab cancel followup until high %s.

Actually, we should already know all the percents for every character that Jab to U-tilt works on when you U-tilt frame perfectly. I can't believe I didn't realise this sooner.
See, Jab comes out on frame 7 and U-tilt comes out on frame 8, so you'd think that there'd be a difference between Jab 1 to Jab 1 and Jab 1 to U-tilt, but there isn't. You need to spend exactly one frame in your 'I'm about to crouch' animation before you can do another Jab 1 (otherwise you get a Jab 2), so both the second Jab 1 and Utilt can end up coming out on the same frame.
If you want to know at what percentage you can get a Jab 1 to U-tilt on each character, all the information should be right here http://smashboards.com/threads/link...-techniques-here.379659/page-11#post-18513196
I tested it on Mario, and I was able to get a Jab to U-tilt to work without the DJ coming out at 69% if I was frame perfect, which was quite difficult, and Mario had to be close enough so that he got hit by the very first hitbox to come out. But still, there you go.

Edit: Jeez, now I'm doubting my D-smash results... Better double check them. brb.
This is what I was worried about. It's so much more difficult to know you're doing it frame perfectly. I just got the Jab to D-smash to work at 100% without the DJ coming out. I must have been using the wrong frame. For shame XD.
95% also works. 90% works. Ok and I'm pretty sure that 85% doesn't work, but if you're frame perfect you can still D-smash Mario even though he got the DJ out, and an Up-B or a DJ airdodge won't help him either, so arguably it works from 85%, but it's easier to just say that it is guaranteed somewhere between 85% and 90% as Mario cannot even act inbetween.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I mostly get my Jab to D-smash combo due to human error, but it works very well. I found jab to U-tilt is much more reliable though and allows me to follow up with bombs quicker to keep them in the sky. F-smash also works too But gives more time for the opponents to react.

You gotta think about the weight of each character too. Peach for example, is very floaty off his jab so d-smash is tough to land unless they really weren't ready for it.

 

[link7]

So I found something interesting. If you Zair drop a bomb and immediately grab the opponent, the bomb explodes as you pull them in, doesn't hurt you, and still allows you to pummel/throw. Not sure if this is actually useful outside of racking up a little extra damage, but it's still there. I'll experiment with it a bit more.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So I found something interesting. If you Zair drop a bomb and immediately grab the opponent, the bomb explodes as you pull them in, doesn't hurt you, and still allows you to pummel/throw. Not sure if this is actually useful outside of racking up a little extra damage, but it's still there. I'll experiment with it a bit more.

I see what you're saying. That's interesting. So the bomb bounces on the ground remaining active by the time you pull the opponent in and bring them into contact with it. It doesn't hurt you because when the bomb explodes by hitting the opponent the explosion of course won't harm you. It's pretty cool because it's like, if the opponent is shielding, we can still hit them with the bomb. It's a very good mix up, much better than just throwing the bomb at their shield.

 

[link7]

I see what you're saying. That's interesting. So the bomb bounces on the ground remaining active by the time you pull the opponent in and bring them into contact with it. It doesn't hurt you because when the bomb explodes by hitting the opponent the explosion of course won't harm you. It's pretty cool because it's like, if the opponent is shielding, we can still hit them with the bomb. It's a very good mix up, much better than just throwing the bomb at their shield.

That's correct. You have to be pretty fast with the grab though. If you grab a second later, the bomb won't explode on the opponent, and remains on the ground.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

That's correct. You have to be pretty fast with the grab though. If you grab a second later, the bomb won't explode on the opponent, and remains on the ground.

I'd check myself but I'm about to get some sleep; I would have thought that dropping the bomb at different heights would give you more or less time because the bomb bounces more times from a greater height. Maybe you don't need to super rush the grab if you time the z-drop at the right time. In any case I didn't seem to have this trouble. Might be worth looking into.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I was just being careful due to april fools and all. Anyway,

I think I see the problem here now that you've clarified your point. 'Inactive' just means the bomb won't detect hurboxes. It can still absorb hitboxes and I don't remember saying otherwise.

As to the last sentence I have quoted, I have no idea what you mean. Read literally it looks to me like you're saying that you can drop a bomb after a dash attack in order to pick a bomb up. So I'm obviously misunderstanding this. Are you perhaps saying that you can pick up soft thrown bombs with dash attack?

Now that I'm rereading my old post, that last sentence wasn't worded right. But yes, I mean what you said, that you can pick the soft thrown bombs up using a dash attack.

 

[link7]

This is directed @ Dumbfire . If you Zair someone in doubles, will the chain go through that character and hit someone behind them?

 

[Drigo Toes]

Link user fellows. I didn't know where to say it because the custom thread is a little old, so i think this thread is a good place to.

My gameplay is generally in mid range, that said, many of my opponents tend to perfect shield my proyectiles to approach and (generally) grab me or another punishment. I discover that all of the Link's proyectiles have a very similar travel speed, creating an easy to follow rhythm.

Quickfire arrow is way faster than other Link proyectiles, creating a asynchronism in the item gameplay, generally taking the opponent by surprise, allowing me to break through their defenses.

Actually, i use a lot of Quickfire Arrow in my custom games... I highly recommend you to use it.

 

[Elessar]

Link user fellows. I didn't know where to say it because the custom thread is a little old, so i think this thread is a good place to.

My gameplay is generally in mid range, that said, many of my opponents tend to perfect shield my proyectiles to approach and (generally) grab me or another punishment. I discover that all of the Link's proyectiles have a very similar travel speed, creating an easy to follow rhythm.

Quickfire arrow is way faster than other Link proyectiles, creating a asynchronism in the item gameplay, generally taking the opponent by surprise, allowing me to break through their defenses.

Actually, i use a lot of Quickfire Arrow in my custom games... I highly recommend you to use it.

How does having the quickfire affect your long range spam, since it doesn't have a lot of range and it can't hit chars who are across the stage from you?

 

[Drigo Toes]

How does having the quickfire affect your long range spam, since it doesn't have a lot of range and it can't hit chars who are across the stage from you?

I must say a little to moderate. QuickFire Arrow (QFA) charges fast, and the range of it at full charge is about 3/4 to 4/5 of Final Destination (i have to check). The damage is mediocre at best (from 2% to 5%). Also, as QFA goes in a line, we lose some good off-stage pressure.
In the other hand, Normal Arrows are way to easy to evade, dodge or shield in any situation, and it does not give me something to mix in mid/close range. In addition, QFA simply negate any proyectile, being a powerfull item against Villager (example). Also, the little hitstun is very handy to dazzle enemies.

I'll say that QFA is a must in Link's arsenal against any opponent that loves to rush in against in the ground. You can use Normal Arrow if your play style is more long range spam than mid range spacing btw. I can't see a good use of Power Arrow until now...

 

[Elessar]

Personally I simply Jab opponents who rush at me. The Jab stops them dead on their tracks and I can cancel into a grab, smash, or utilt. Granted, it doesn't work always but I think it'd work just as well as the QFA.

 

[Rizen]

I prefer quickfire arrows for my custom list too. Spin attack 1 boomerang 2 quickfire arrows (2 or 3 idk) and bombs 1. Quick arrows are a great spacing tool that work like Wolf's blaster in Brawl. I think they're transcendent and interrupt attacks.


I was testing grab follow ups. Link doesn't seem to have any guaranteed 'hoo haws' but he has several easy reads that are opponent weight and fall speed dependent.
vs moderate speed fallers and large characters grab>Dthrow>quickly dash backward and immediately Usmash for a short slide will cover most of their options at 0-30ish%. From 30-70ish% Link has a good chance to Dthrow>Jump Fair/Uair depending on the opponent's air speed. Then at higher %s Uthrow>jump + DI read can lead to Uair.
vs fast fallers at low %s Uthrow >Usmash works better. Then once they get some damage, like 20-70ish%, the Dthrow>Usmash thing works.
vs floaty characters and light characters with good air movement you're better off using Uthrow>Utilt or Usmash then at higher %s Uair.
After 70% you can Fthrow/Bthrow the opponent offstage and intercept their recovery for best results or Uthrow and get bombs ready to toss up and read DI.
After 160-180+% Uthrow kills (rage, character and stage dependent) so there's no reason to do anything else.

Bomb launch angles are very similar to Dthrow's angle except in front of Link so the above strategies might work with bombs too.

 

[Dumbfire]

This is directed @ Dumbfire . If you Zair someone in doubles, will the chain go through that character and hit someone behind them?

I've only ever hit two people with the same hitbox. Usually in neutral one of us may space with Zair while the others covers further range with arrows and bombs full hopping behind the other. That works very well especially in 2 vs. 1

 

[link7]

I've only ever hit two people with the same hitbox. Usually in neutral one of us may space with Zair while the others covers further range with arrows and bombs full hopping behind the other. That works very well especially in 2 vs. 1

Oh okay, thanks!

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Personally I simply Jab opponents who rush at me. The Jab stops them dead on their tracks and I can cancel into a grab, smash, or utilt. Granted, it doesn't work always but I think it'd work just as well as the QFA.

I agree with this. Not only is it reliable to me, it can also set them up for more damaging combos. QFA is a very good stopper in its own right but having the normal arrows are great for long range situations as well as keeping pressure and playing head games with opponents who are further offstage. Usually I try to go out there and Nair them to death but sometimes it's better to sit back and shoot at them.

 

[Sabaca]

Unforunately i don't have any footage of it , but there is another lock. I tested around on Bowser and found out that you can do great combos by fullhop->bombdthrow->footstool->nairlock what should work against any charakter. You can chain this nairlock setup into itself what would make it an infinite if nair didn't stop locking Bowser @49%. When following it up with an semicharged fsmash at the end of the % rage and close to the ledge , it can even kill. While locking multiple times you can change between starting the locks with direct hit or indirect hit of bombs to get the % you want.
It is something we definitely have to look deeper into and use.
Because it makes Link having an destructive combo game in lower % wich SetUp shouldbe pretty save.

EDIT: every nairlock can be followed up with 1! arrow lock for more damage, but you got less time for the next followup and can't do another bomb into nairlock.
EDIT2: It seems like the SetUp actually doesn't combo into itself. I was simply too excited about this. At least we got those 40% and higher combos.