Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[Zane the pure]

Lol why? Isn't not getting a dair spike on a grounded opponent overall better?

I had some nasty setups from low %s with Bomb to footstool D-air since it wobbles the opponent. You can get a grab, F-smash 1&2, or U-smash to do about 35%-40%. The spike is also untechable after the footstool, so D-air spike to U-air worked at like 90% on most characters. The new D-air is weaker on startup so you can sword pogo, but I keep getting N-air'ed out of it by everyone, so I'm not a huge fan.

Mind if I borrow that Hyperbolic Do Work Chamber tho?

Sure, lemme just clean it up first though... It's got a lot of my blood all over it from getting dunked by top players in the interim.

 

[The Merc]

Hey guys, question. Do any of you know where the Link and Cloud rivalry came from? Just looking at Cloud's smash art and other art works of the two, I am just curious as to how it all came about.

P.S. I hate the D-air change... with a passion, but I'll trade it for the F-air, F-smash and D-smash buffs. The last two things Link needs are a faster N-air and better air movement.

But doesn't it land onto itself better now?

pretty even

also bomb > fair can kill hard now at higher %, holy ****.

What do you mean bomb-> Fair? I.e what context (jump, bomb throw down, fair)

I can see why Corrin was put in over Wolf, but really would Wolf have taken so much effort to put in- for a fan favorite veteran character? Bayonetta looks awesome, though it'll be less awesome to play against her.

But then why did Lucas and Roy get added and not Wolf? I thought he was more popular than the pair of them? Or was just after those two were announced?

 

[Catana]

What do you mean bomb-> Fair? I.e what context (jump, bomb throw down, fair)

bombslide to fair, mostly

 

[The Merc]

bombslide to fair, mostly

Ah, okay.

I wouldn't know, since I still don't know how to bombslide.

 

[ChainArmour712]

Hey guys, question. Do any of you know where the Link and Cloud rivalry came from? Just looking at Cloud's smash art and other art works of the two, I am just curious as to how it all came about.



But doesn't it land onto itself better now?



What do you mean bomb-> Fair? I.e what context (jump, bomb throw down, fair)



But then why did Lucas and Roy get added and not Wolf? I thought he was more popular than the pair of them? Or was just after those two were announced?

I think it was mainly that their big games came about within a year of each other, they are similar in terms of overall ability, and both have an enormous fanbase. Another factor is that both Link and Cloud were mascots of sorts for the PlayStation and N64, so there was the console wars factor in there too.

 

[Rizen]

I said Link could use a frame 5 jab and someone in another thread said:
"Not even counting his wall of projectiles, a frame 5 jab would put his nair->jab on Shiek levels of pressure, and that's something that would be insane on a character with this many disjoints and so much kill power (especially now with the buffed Fair)"
FG is a plague on competitive smash.

The Merc
This is one reason why people see Link and cloud as rivals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o2SV6ynJYQ

 

[The Merc]

I think it was mainly that their big games came about within a year of each other, they are similar in terms of overall ability, and both have an enormous fanbase. Another factor is that both Link and Cloud were mascots of sorts for the PlayStation and N64, so there was the console wars factor in there too.

That makes a lot of sense. plus they are both pretty epic swords men two. Though Link is still the coolest. Look, i don't care how big Cloud's Buster is, the Master Sword is just that much more awesome!

The Merc
This is one reason why people see Link and cloud as rivals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o2SV6ynJYQ

I smile every time I watch that video.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I said Link could use a frame 5 jab and someone in another thread said:
"Not even counting his wall of projectiles, a frame 5 jab would put his nair->jab on Shiek levels of pressure, and that's something that would be insane on a character with this many disjoints and so much kill power (especially now with the buffed Fair)"
FG is a plague on competitive smash.

The Merc
This is one reason why people see Link and cloud as rivals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o2SV6ynJYQ

Since it seems like Sakurai doesn't want Link to be sped up in any way, it looks like the only ways to buff Link are damage increases and making Link more powerful in general, which is what they have been doing. If they gave Bair 1 or jab 2 a damage buff, we'd actually be able to combo out of them on top of having them be safer on shield. Notice how freaking close they are to being guaranteed kill confirms. I feel like Link would be much more viable if they did that. It doesn't seem too far off either, but I digress.

I freaking hate For Glory scubs sometimes too. They act like they know what they're talking about when they don't even know what a combo is and complain about any characters they have trouble with online that they don't know how to deal with, almost always going so far as to say that they need to be nerfed, when instead they should be asking for Zss and Sheik to be nerfed. Anyone right now who thinks that Cloud should be nerfed is an obvious FG scrub for a good example.

 

[Catana]

sheik and zss shouldnt get nerfed, weaker chars need buffs. asking for them to be nerfed is basically asking for the game to be slowed down, we dont need another brawl where the only viable thing to do was to hit and run because nobody had combos.
either way smash4 babies are immature little ****s that dont know what adapting is so they want the lazy and easy way out because they dont have the skill nor the brains required to be a good player.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Are you sure you don't just want to get a

n external harddrive?
Yes, I'm sure. So sure that I've already bought the wii-u and done the system transfer. I'm back in business.

 

[Batu]

n external harddrive?
Yes, I'm sure. So sure that I've already bought the wii-u and done the system transfer. I'm back in business.

Nice to ear that! To be honest, i was worrying in the shadows that we lose your labing capacities. :/

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Nice to ear that! To be honest, i was worrying in the shadows that we lose your labing capacities. :/

Oh. Well that's very sweet of you. Thanks.

I guess I also own mario maker now because it came in a bundle. Is anyone still playing that? If I made any sick levels would people be interested in playing them?

 

[Rizen]

I've been typing a lot again and my wrists started hurting. Hopefully it's nothing but i have a dr apt on monday. for now i'm avoiding typing, i pecked this

 

[Catana]

i didnt know people used their wrists for typing. i must be doing something wrong.

 

[MintyGuy700]

Oh. Well that's very sweet of you. Thanks.

I guess I also own mario maker now because it came in a bundle. Is anyone still playing that? If I made any sick levels would people be interested in playing them?

Mario Maker is still very popular, and yes I'd play some of your levels.

 

[epicnights]

Mario maker is definitely still popular. Hell, Witwix and Trihex still stream it often, and Trihex is actually speedrunning it at AGDQ. (How, you may ask? I have no clue. I just roll with it.)

 

[Naroghin]

i didnt know people used their wrists for typing. i must be doing something wrong.

Unless you're Rayman, then yes, you use your wrists for typing.

I've been typing a lot again and my wrists started hurting. Hopefully it's nothing but i have a dr apt on monday. for now i'm avoiding typing, i pecked this

Are your wrists bent in any way when typing? Do they rest on a surface or hover above? Even if they are straight, hovering can cause tension and putting something under may help. It seems silly, but if you begin doing a lot of anything you haven't done much of for a while, it's good to stretch and take breaks. I have to do the same thing when I get back into practicing piano. Wrist and finger stretches can also relieve natural tension some of us get just from trying to hold our hands in certain possitions, which can also cause cramping even if our technique looks correct.

 

[Catana]

Unless you're Rayman, then yes, you use your wrists for typing.

looks like i got a condition

 

[Naroghin]

looks like i got a condition

It's ok, Rayman seems to do pretty well for himself, you'll be just fine.

 

[Rizen]

Unless you're Rayman, then yes, you use your wrists for typing.


Are your wrists bent in any way when typing? Do they rest on a surface or hover above? Even if they are straight, hovering can cause tension and putting something under may help. It seems silly, but if you begin doing a lot of anything you haven't done much of for a while, it's good to stretch and take breaks. I have to do the same thing when I get back into practicing piano. Wrist and finger stretches can also relieve natural tension some of us get just from trying to hold our hands in certain possitions, which can also cause cramping even if our technique looks correct.

i think you're right. i've been doing a ton of lifting and things with my hands i normally don't including typing from a different angle.


ot, there's so much wrong with this post
http://smashboards.com/threads/char...heories-tactics.422864/page-112#post-20622879
if someone wants to address it cool but i don't blame you if not.

 

[Lawz.]

I kinda want Mario Maker, but I wound up buying Bloodeborne instead. Great game with awesome boss/enemy designs. Oh and tons of violence, can't go wrong with that.

It being on sale made it even better.

 

[DarkDeity15]

sheik and zss shouldnt get nerfed, weaker chars need buffs. asking for them to be nerfed is basically asking for the game to be slowed down, we dont need another brawl where the only viable thing to do was to hit and run because nobody had combos.
either way smash4 babies are immature little ****s that dont know what adapting is so they want the lazy and easy way out because they dont have the skill nor the brains required to be a good player.

I'd agree, but it's way easier to just nerf Shiek and Zero Suit.

 

[Aetheri]

I'd agree, but it's way easier to just nerf Shiek and Zero Suit.

I'd prefer they didn't....(not just because I use both of them, either)

The thing about both Sheik and ZSS, both are light as hell...one mistake against heavier and stronger characters could result in a loss of stock...Sheik can wrack up damage easily, but has limited killing options...while ZSS has one of the most punishable grab whiffs in the game (rivaled only by....herself), which is actually pretty big considering her viability depends on her grab set-ups...Two things I can see them doing for nerfs Sheik: increased KB on ftilt (technically a buff but makes it less spammy) and create a slightly more horizontal launch on ZSS's Up B...literally the only things I'd do tbh...

Anyway...I feel if they buffed certain less viable characters rather than nerfing high level characters it would benefit the meta better...
For example......they need help in a bunch of different areas a lot more than others and nerfing Sheik and ZSS (ironically their alternate forms) won't fix their current problems...Samus with her absurdly bad hitboxes and surprisingly limited killing options (such a situational and punishable grab, but no kill throw?)...and Zelda with so many of her best options having outrageous endlag...

When it comes to Link, a couple things that I'd like to see is a slightly increased hitstun (or decreased KB) on his dtilt for some better follow-up options, as well as frame reduction on his nair's start-up to make it a better combo breaker (one of Link's biggest weaknesses is getting tossed around like a rag-doll, giving him a better option to break free would be a valuable asset to his game) also I feel like projectiles that don't stun (ie, Fox's lasers) shouldn't cause hitstun on his shield (mainly because it makes no sense, why would they stun his shield but if they hit his body he doesn't care?), I kinda want his fully charged arrows to have a bit of a shield pierce as well...another thing that makes sense to me since they...well, pierce things...

 

[DarkDeity15]

I'd prefer they didn't....(not just because I use both of them, either)

The thing about both Sheik and ZSS, both are light as hell...one mistake against heavier and stronger characters could result in a loss of stock...Sheik can wrack up damage easily, but has limited killing options...while ZSS has one of the most punishable grab whiffs in the game (rivaled only by....herself), which is actually pretty big considering her viability depends on her grab set-ups...Two things I can see them doing for nerfs Sheik: increased KB on ftilt (technically a buff but makes it less spammy) and create a slightly more horizontal launch on ZSS's Up B...literally the only things I'd do tbh...

Anyway...I feel if they buffed certain less viable characters rather than nerfing high level characters it would benefit the meta better...
For example......they need help in a bunch of different areas a lot more than others and nerfing Sheik and ZSS (ironically their alternate forms) won't fix their current problems...Samus with her absurdly bad hitboxes and surprisingly limited killing options (such a situational and punishable grab, but no kill throw?)...and Zelda with so many of her best options having outrageous endlag...

When it comes to Link, a couple things that I'd like to see is a slightly increased hitstun (or decreased KB) on his dtilt for some better follow-up options, as well as frame reduction on his nair's start-up to make it a better combo breaker (one of Link's biggest weaknesses is getting tossed around like a rag-doll, giving him a better option to break free would be a valuable asset to his game) also I feel like projectiles that don't stun (ie, Fox's lasers) shouldn't cause hitstun on his shield (mainly because it makes no sense, why would they stun his shield but if they hit his body he doesn't care?), I kinda want his fully charged arrows to have a bit of a shield pierce as well...another thing that makes sense to me since they...well, pierce things...

As much as I agree with you, buffing the worse characters in the game won't stop Zero Suit and Sheik from dominating the metagame in the long term, which we've had quite enough of some characters doing in previous games. Also, not only is buffing everyone until they're closer to Shiek/Zss's level easier said than done, but I recall Project M attempting something similar when they tried buffing everyone to Fox's level... Needless to say, things got a bit ridiculous. And even though Shiek and Zero Suit have weaknesses, their strengths far out-measure them. It's why they're the two best characters in the game imo. So what I think they should do is tone down their strengths a little and they'll be fine. The nerfs I'd give them are to increase the landing lag on Zss's Uair a bit or decrease the damage while increasing KBG, and cutting down on the range of Sheik's Fair (it reaches almost as far as Link's Fair which doesn't make much sense) as well as giving Ftilt more KBG, like you said.

As for Link, there's very little to be done for him to be considered a threat. He's pretty solid as it is, but he's got just a little bit more to go... Then again, Link now has a reliable kill confirm which is what we've kinda been asking for (bomb throw to Fair and possibly to aerial spin attack if it's true that the move connects more reliably now). I guess we'll have to wait and see if this is all he needed to become a threat. If it's not, then they'll have no choice but to give Link frame data/stat buffs (the most logical ones being to make jab 1 and Nair faster on start-up, and an aerial mobility buff). That I'm pretty sure of. Kill power only helps so much (look at Roy for example). But again, I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

aerial spin attack if it's true that the move connects more reliably now

Oh, it definitely does. There's no comparison.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Oh, it definitely does. There's no comparison.

So then I can assume it always connects on Jiggs now, right? Just asking.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So then I can assume it always connects on Jiggs now, right? Just asking.

I've had no issues with it even against Jiggs. From my cursory tests a few days ago on someone else's wii-u, the only times I was not connecting all hits was when I connected the very first hit on the very top of a character. It was very difficult to miss otherwise. The previous one on the other hand seemed to actively fight against you.

 

[Naroghin]

I've had no issues with it even against Jiggs. From my cursory tests a few days ago on someone else's wii-u, the only times I was not connecting all hits was when I connected the very first hit on the very top of a character. It was very difficult to miss otherwise. The previous one on the other hand seemed to actively fight against you.

During some games I played last night I noticed we can DI away so the final hit doesn't land. They may have been DIing out, as well, though. It was pretty close either way. Not pixels, but still close.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I do like that this patch did seem to be the "buff characters patch". If I'm not mistaken, we had Link, Mewtwo, Lucario, Ganondorf, Bowser, Lucas & Kirby got buffed? I kind of suspect the rest of the mid to low tier chars will be buffed next patch (with Corrin/Bayonetta), but we'll see.

Awesome to hear the Aerial Up-B connects really well now, although that's what I was seeing on my 3DS as well.

 

[link and ike lover]

Went up against a cloud. His limit killed me at 33%.........

 

[Himura Kenshin]

Catana is right. Nerfing strong characters is a cop out, and doesn't make us stronger. It's like making a UFC fighter not train because others aren't as good. ZSS and Sheik will still have food tools to use, but we'd have our own to counter that.

A good example would be Samus. Do you honestly think Samus mains want ZSS nerfed so that Samus' Jab 1 connects to 2? Hell no, it wouldn't have any affect on her jab, it would still suck donkey ****.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Catana is right. Nerfing strong characters is a cop out, and doesn't make us stronger. It's like making a UFC fighter not train because others aren't as good. ZSS and Sheik will still have food tools to use, but we'd have our own to counter that.

A good example would be Samus. Do you honestly think Samus mains want ZSS nerfed so that Samus' Jab 1 connects to 2? Hell no, it wouldn't have any affect on her jab, it would still suck donkey ****.

Actually, yes it would make us stronger (indirectly). That second point kinda doesn't make sense.

 

[Aetheri]

Actually, yes it would make us stronger (indirectly). That second point kinda doesn't make sense.

The point is nerfing the more viable characters doesn't fix the issues that less viable characters have...
Samus has very bad hitboxes...nerfing ZSS's uair won't really help that nor will it make that matchup any more balanced...

 

[DarkDeity15]

The point is nerfing the more viable characters doesn't fix the issues that less viable characters have...
Samus has very bad hitboxes...nerfing ZSS's uair won't really help that nor will it make that matchup any more balanced...

Um... Yes, it would. The MU would still be horrible, but it would still help at least a little.

Why can't they just do both, lol? Nerf Zero Suit and Sheik and buff the worse characters in the game. Derpity derp.

 

[8MAN]

Either we have a game where everyone is overpowered or everyone is terrible. Take your pick.

 

[Dumbfire]

Man, what an exciting an interesting discussion. This stuff should be published in book form, even average people would enjoy it for the sheer eloquence and analytical brilliance that shines through every sentence.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Seems more like a "whoever gets the most likes on one side wins" kinda discussion, lol.

 

[Dumbfire]

There is no winning, it's just you wasting time on the Internet having laborious and boring discussions on trivial nonsense. If you're gonna spend time typing long effortposts on a vidya game at least be ****ing good at it

 

[DarkDeity15]

There is no winning, it's just you wasting time on the Internet having laborious and boring discussions on trivial nonsense. If you're gonna spend time typing long effortposts on a vidya game at least be ****ing good at it

Hey, I think I did pretty ok, unless you aren't talking about me, which I doubt. **** ever dude, I'm bored and it just so happens that I've got some free time on my hands. Let me do me.

Anyway, I strongly disagree with anyone who thinks that buffing everyone to Shiek's level is the right way to balance this game. We've all seen what Shiek can do. If everyone had that level of performance and cheese, it would be ridiculous. On top of that, some of the craziest characters in the game still lose to Shiek (there is literally no one she doesn't beat). I don't really understand why some people are afraid of these characters getting nerfed a little, especially when they are the bane of Link in this game and probably always will be if something isn't done one way or another. I guess I'd understand buffing everyone to Zero Suit's level, but Sheik? You're crazy lol.

 

[CrimsonRick117]

Which fictional character do you believe is the most like yourself? I would say Link. But being i lack both the beauty and Sword skills i'm going to go with Dan from Street fighter.....