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Link a low tier Samus? (omg, AND a counter?!)

St. Viers

Smash Champion
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umm 56k--in your you forgot a few points of skler's:

1. You can platform cancel missiles and all, but if they hit link's shield they still don't do anything.

2. Links has the (good) possibility of, when in the air, having a bomb in his hands. Although Samus has her bombs, links up-air is disjointed, samus' isn't. So IMNO ('noobish') I'd say samus gets ***** harder from below. Also, her attacks sends them away at the end, meaning you can't just SHFFL it unless you hit exactly the way you want every single time.

3. Link has SKREAAAAH! (okay, not a real point, but to some it is >_>)
 

Skler

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I was gonna post more but Smashboards crapped out on me ;_;

Anyway, I just don't see how Link has the advantage vs Samus. She is overall faster than Link (not talking about running speed, but her WD and attacks are faster in general).
True, Samus is faster than Link in every aspect.



How does Link outspam Samus? Well, on Final D sure, but on platform stages (every other stage in the game) Samus can projectile spam more efficiently and at a much faster rate than Link can.
Link outspams Samus more easily on platform stages. Sure, samus has those SH MCs on platforms and can drop down to shoot another missile, but Link can stand still and throw boomerangs straight on and still beat Samus' missile spam. If Link feels pressured at all by Samus' spam he can just let a missile hit his shield and resume spamming back. Link can also move from platform to platform while spamming, Samus doesn't have that luxury.



Actually, Samus can play quite well on the offensive too. It's just that Defensive Samus' generally do better in tournaments. However, Samus can never be purely offensive as she is usually hiding behind a missile even when rushing her opponent. So I see where you're coming from, but don't underestimate Samus' offensive game.
True, samus has a good offensive game when behind a projectile. The problem with this is Link can cancel the missile in many different ways (jab, shield, sex kick, projectile) and stop Samus' approach with an attack.



Yes he does, only because he has a sword though :p. Sex kick on the other hand...
Sex kick priority pretty much depends on whoever is above the other. Link's is also better at the tip, while Samus' is best closer to the inside. Link's sex kick is a better spacer, granted he should be fairing a lot in this matchup for the extra range.



This matchup is a battle between the two best sex kicks in the game (sorry Luigi). Their sex kicks are equally amazing and I'd say they're even, neither one is better.
I personally prefer Link's, but I see where you're coming from. Samus' sex kick is an amazing move.



This can go either way. If you switched the words "Link" and "Samus" in that statement it would still be true. If Link is above Samus, he's going to get ***** by her uair. Unless of course he's performing a dair, but he should already be getting uaired by then lol.
Also true, but Link's uairs can juggle much longer than Samus'. Samus hits once with her uair and then Link can get by (assuming he DIs correctly). Link's uair is also higher priority than anything Samus can use to get down. Link's dair can trade with a Samus uair if he ever really needs to get down.



This is all true from my experience. But! Samus can edgeguard Link just as well. Missiles screw with just about everyone's recovery. She can also jump out and sex kick him, which can send him out too far to recover, even via grapple. She also happens to happens to have the best CC in the game which allows her to sit at the edge, CC Link's up B, and then counter-attack him back off the stage. She can also angle an uptilt and hit him if he's not trying to sweetspot.
True, Samus can edgeguard Link pretty well and vice versa. Link pretty much has to go low if Samus jumps out, and then rely on teching all of her edgeguards.

I will admit that Link has the advantage against Samus...on Final Destination. Her flatland game's pretty weak. On every other stage, the platforms and terrain allow Samus to move much faster and maneuver much better than Link can, plus most of Samus' game relies on platforms. Her waveland is one of her best assets, which helps on platform stages too. Don't forget the double platform-canceled missiles.

Here's an example of Samus' advantage on platform stages, especially on the first stock.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Opa9EBoPDyY
Link is also much better on platform stages. His entire game is based around getting the opponent above him, which is what platform stages accomplish. Link's controlling projectiles give him an edge.

Any chance you're going to Pound 3? I wanna play you there!
 

Endless Nightmares

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I wish I were going to pound 3! But alas, I'm just a penniless Minnesotan. I can't even afford $15 for the next biweekly lol.

After reading both of our points, I can see why people compare Samus to Link. They excel in a lot of the same areas in the same ways. I need to try out these matchups more often, DK supposedly has the advantage vs Samus too! (according to the DK board at least)
 

sincityserious

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 22, 2007
Messages
101
I'm fairly sure he means by jumping out to dair. and i mean, jumping out fairly far.

Either way, it amuses me that most of the posts save a few people, are made by people who don't have good grasps of samus and link and don't have much tournament experience.
wtf are you talking about, nub. did you even read my post?
 

SleepyK

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wtf are you talking about, nub. did you even read my post?
yeah, even if you do meteor cancel, Link's up-b lacks the horizontal range to recover out from a decent distance, even if he hookshots.

and please do avoid throwing out random insults.

This isn't halo.
 

KratosAurion192

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wtf are you talking about, nub. did you even read my post?
WTF people pay attention to what you say anymore?

Ok so here's my little problem with Samus. The one I play like to randomly drop bombs in the air, throwing off any air game I can think to do. Is there a way around that?
 

Skler

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Just jump towards samus without attacking. If all they drop a bomb go over or under and attack them during their lag.

Uair can go through bombs if you aren't rising while you do it.
 

sugarpoultry

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wtf are you talking about, nub. did you even read my post?
The last person I heard say "nub" got banned... very quickly...
________
It's hard to say if Link will be better than Samus in Brawl. Gimpy says Link plays pretty much the same. Faster, but good. I don't think I ever compare Link and Samus. They play so differently. I like the way both play, and whenever Buzz plays Samus I get destroyed...
 

BrimeZ

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The best way to stop Samuses bomb recoery is to use the arrows right. Or at least that's what I heard, I don't play any serious Samus. I'll probably be able to play against one at the Smash tournament I'm going to this weekend.
 

Sliq

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As a general rule of thumb, I would say never listen to any advice given by SmashBrudda.
 

A2ZOMG

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I'll vouch for Link having the advantage over Samus in the matchup. Not a counter, but strong vs Samus.
If Link has a favorable matchup over Samus, like Link has a 6 and Samus has a 4 on phanna's scale of 0-10, then he definitely is a counter considering how he's a low tier as opposed to high tier. Even if they had a completely even matchup, I'd still call it a counter, considering how generally low tiers aren't supposed to perform on par with high tiers.

Just preaching my view of technicalities. =P
 

BDawgPHD

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yeah, even if you do meteor cancel, Link's up-b lacks the horizontal range to recover out from a decent distance, even if he hookshots.

and please do avoid throwing out random insults.

This isn't halo.
Halo isn't about throwing out random insults. It's about killing people who are clearly better than you are, teabagging them, and then calling them noobs. And then throwing out random insults. Really.

You can't ever mindlessly fight a good Samus because it's too easy to walk into things. I mean even against good players you can do things like spam SHFFL'ed sex and smart projectiles, but Samus is too floaty, goofy, and unpredictable to attack that way, you'll get mutilated....but there's a whole other mindset to fighting Samus. Don't mind me, just talking to myself.

EDIT: Tiers don't apply to Link because Link players are too good now :-P
 

Endless Nightmares

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Do you think the Samus v Link matchup favor changes at all depending on if the Samus is super aggressive instead of defensive like most Samus players? Like in-your-face style of gameplay.
 

BDawgPHD

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Any aggressive player can be countered, aggressive play is meant to be pressuring and hard to counter, but there is no real counter for camping. Although camping gives a player more time to think out a strategy in the middle of a match. So it starts to come down to mindgames and patience. I guess.
 

Rohins

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If Link has a favorable matchup over Samus, like Link has a 6 and Samus has a 4 on phanna's scale of 0-10, then he definitely is a counter considering how he's a low tier as opposed to high tier. Even if they had a completely even matchup, I'd still call it a counter, considering how generally low tiers aren't supposed to perform on par with high tiers.

Just preaching my view of technicalities. =P
How does Link's place on the tier list influence his role as a "counter"? That makes no sense. Being a counter involves having a huge apparent advantage. I already said Link is good vs Samus, but counter? Nah. He's no captain, ganon, or sheik (closest characters to a Samus character, imho).
 

BDawgPHD

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......and Link is a effeminate guy....
You're gonna get SCRAAAHH!'ed in your sleep tonight, you know that? I hope you're merely confusing a guy who wears tights with a certain metrosexual we all know for his extremely long sword that he likes to wave at men, women, little boys, animals, and transvestites.

EDIT: By the way, Link can be such an ******* to Samus if Samus is trying to bombjump back. It's called "sniping missiles with boomers and arrows"...I did it to my friend yesterday on marth's story, it was so awesome. Sorry if someone already mentioned this (I probably did myself)
 

Skler

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Samus playing aggressively is the only way Samus can play against Link. Defensive Samus gets nowhere in the matchup because Link can spam for 8 minutes, and if Samus never approaches Link wins through %.

I automatically assume Samus will be playing offensive against Link, the matchup is in Link's favor but it is winnable (I'm talking the disadvantage of say, Marth when fighting Shiek, not Pichu vs ICs or anything).
 

Hylian

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Samus is one of the fastest characters in this game...
 

BDawgPHD

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Yeah right. Her **** slow her down.
what ****?

......so yea, she's one of the fastest characters in the game.

..........now that you make me think about it, I guess she does have some, just not visible through the suit.
 

Vall3y

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link is a samus clone
up b = spin
down b = bomb
forward b = projectile
b = charged projectile
z = special long recovery grab
 

sincityserious

Smash Apprentice
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yeah, even if you do meteor cancel, Link's up-b lacks the horizontal range to recover out from a decent distance, even if he hookshots.

and please do avoid throwing out random insults.

This isn't halo.
lol. just from simply reading your post i can tell you haven't a clue.
 

Skler

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If by low tier you mean high tier.

Didn't we already come to an agreement on Link being better than Fox? Don't make me remind you guys why that is.

SKRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
 
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