Let's have a fun thread

[JosePollo]

Spoiler

Why can't we have all these at once? ;_;

I voted for longer grab range. Extra cooldown is really kind of a non-issue since he's already getting punished for it he whiffs a grab, but now he's able to grab through swords and multi-jabs. Up air is good enough as is and decreasing its kill power for hitbox size isn't really a good trade, in my opinion.

The Down smash thing would make it to where you could somewhat safely hit a shield with it, but I mostly use down smash for edge-guarding, and it already does a good job of punishing spot dodge.

Up smash hitting earlier or getting increased invincibility is meh, although it would make it a lot more easy to get Up smash parries, although those are still very niche and impractical to pull off even if you get both buffs. You still wouldn't be using Up smash outside of hard reads.

 

[K3H]

The day his Uair gets a proper hit box... ooh boy...

 

[MrWhYYZ]

The day his Uair gets a proper hit box... ooh boy...

This!
Uair is godly if it actually connects. >.<

Up-tilt getting less recovery would be better than everything in that list imo. It's really weird Up-tilt has so much recovery, you'd think you can combo out of it but nope. And you can be Smash punished on block which is really annoying.

 

[SpandexBullets]

I always have this headcanon going on about what the last patch of Smash 4 is gonna be like. It's kind of a waste of thought because we can all accurately guess which characters will never get buffed/nerfed.

Percent increase and less landing lag on aerials. That's it. He needs an hitbox extension behind his head on up-air (which auto-cancels), stronger fair with 12.5% with auto-cancels in a short hop, and autocancel nair.

And, I dunno. Make PK freeze travel faster or give Lucas a faster dash. He needs an approach and good moves on shield so his aerials/PK fire need the most attention.

(I don't get why all of you obsess about his moveset in PM being godlike, but okee...)

 

[7up1001]

I'd actually prefer that they'd make all hits of his dsmash still active even after shielding one of the hits. If Shulk's dsmash is still active even after shielding the first hit, why not Lucas'?.

 

[A Polar Bear]

I'll be honest, I don't feel like the u-air hitbox is that big of a deal anymore. Maybe it's just me getting used to it, but utility wise, I rarely use it in a situation that requires for it to have more range than it does, since it's not strong enough to kill near ground like Ness'. It's power and range seem congruent with the animation in any case.

 

[JosePollo]

I'll be honest, I don't feel like the u-air hitbox is that big of a deal anymore. Maybe it's just me getting used to it, but utility wise, I rarely use it in a situation that requires for it to have more range than it does, since it's not strong enough to kill near ground like Ness'. It's power and range seem congruent with the animation in any case.

Yeah, me too. I only ever really use it off of a down throw or to hit an opponent stuck in PK Freeze close to the ground. The difference between Ness and Lucas is that Ness swings his head the whole way around and Lucas only does a little headbutt in front of him because the hitbox sizes aren't really that much different (Lucas is like 6.something units while Ness's is only like 1 unit bigger and they have almost the same damage output and landing lag).

 

[Frobro]

I wish i could change my vote!

I voted for the d-smash fix, though I'd prefer if it didn't lose it's ability to hit someone if they shield the first hit.

Just give me:

Damage increase on:
F-air 1-2.5% more on sweetspot(and auto cancel)

N-air 1% more

Z-air 4% along the whole snake and sweetspot is applied to the whole move not just the start.

Just make my grab longer than Bowser's tilts. Give me more lag to compensate. Why did they give Lucas half a tether?

Fix D-Smash in any way.

Make PK Thunder knock people away, like it use to, I'll kep the lag.

 

[Karna]

Voted for the grab length increase, if only to help fix a glaring weakness. He relies so much on getting the grab, but he seems to have the worst tether.

Other, mostly unrealistic, buffs I'd like to see-

-Down smash losing it's sex kick properties so that it's actually 3 hits on shield. This would probably result in down smash doing a pretty hefty amount of shield damage, especially when charged. Which would be cool. If ,,,,, and can all randomly pop people's shields, why can't ?

-Significantly enhanced hitstun on moves with the PSI effect. A Yoshi up-aired out of my nair today. I cried.

-Dair and nair to link properly at any percent.

-Less lag on PK Thunder and PKT2. It's an absurd amount of endlag and makes using the move onstage a huge gamble. If they halved it, it might be alright.

-PKT2 to kill at least as early as a fully charged forward smash. It doesn't have to get the insane kills at 30% that Ness's does, but it needs to kill at or below 100%.

-PK Thunder should stay out longer so we can actually take advantage of the whole multihit thing.

-Nair and Fair autocancel on short hop.

-Sweespot Fair should start killing around 130%.

-Nair should deal 2% more damage with less knockback for better followups.

-U-throw should kill about 20% earlier than it does now (I believe it's around 140% on most characters?)

-Uair's hitbox should double in size. I pretty much only ever use it for the PK Hoo-Ha because the thing is so damn tiny. It doesn't need to be as strong as La Cabeza Muerte.

-Actual hitstun on the sourspot of Bair.

-PK Freeze should either actually kill at less than 200% or have no knockback so you can set up off of it, a-la 's 8.

-Please, just like one more character length of range on PK Fire. I just need to git gud, but watching PK Fire fizzle out an inch in front of someone's face is so depressing.

-Sweetspotted dash attack to actually kill.

-Three more frames of invincibility on up smash.

-Remove a few frames of endlag and reduce the knockback from Utilt so we can do Mario things.

-Zair should have the 4% hitbox all along the snake.


I also came up with some customs! Mostly based on actual PSI powers from the EarthBound series.

Neutral-
PK Ground: Instead of freezing, buries. Meteors on air hit.
PK OffenseUp: Pretty much just Deep Breathing for Lucas.
PK Darkness: Darkness effect. Deals no damage or knockback, instead putting struck opponents in stun (shield break) for amount of time corresponding to charge. Moves significantly slower than PK Freeze, more endlag.

Side-
PK Beta: Less startup, deals significantly less knockback, but flowers the enemy on hit. Being hit again makes the flower grow, causing it to deal damage faster and stay on longer. Stacks up to 3 times, adding 5 seconds per stack.
PK DefenseDown: No damage or knockback, but reduces the weight of struck opponents. Stacks up to three times, with three stacks halving the target's weight.

Up-
Ness's PK Thunder: What it says on the tin.
PK Meteor: Lucas stalls midair and emits the body hitbox of PK Thunder, and then PKT2's. Direction can be controlled similarly to Fire Fox. Travels roughly 2/3s the distance.

Down-
PK Spiral: Magnet becomes a swirling PSI hitbox roughly half the size of normal PSI Magnet. Does not absorb projectiles, entire spiral is an an active hitbox similar to a charging Aura Sphere while Down-B is held, with another hitbox activating upon release to launch the opponent. Little endlag, becomes active very early.
PK LifeUp: While holding B, Lucas stands still and begins emitting hearts. Upon being released, heals you for percent based on how long it was charged, maxing out at 30% after 5 seconds of charge. High endlag, comparable to PK Thunder or Usmash.
PK Omega: Replaces magnet with a swirling dark void that does not absorb projectiles, but sucks opponents towards the center (the spark hitbox).
Upon release, if an opponent is hit by the spark hitbox, they are put to sleep, similar to the effects of 's Sing. High startup, high endlag.


Most of that probably isn't balanced in the least, but hey, a guy can dream.

EDIT: Oh, and a Masked Man skin/model/costume, please!

 

[JosePollo]

Other, mostly unrealistic, buffs I'd like to see...

Speaking of buffs wishlist (see: will never, ever happen)...

Spoiler: Lucas buffs wishlist

Jab combo:
-Jab 1 & 2; IASA frame 20-->16
-Jab 3: IASA frame 30-->38; damage 4.0%-->5.0%
-summary: Jab 1 & 2 are less commital, but jab 3 is a lot less safe on shield, though it does more damage

Dash attack:
-Hitbox ID=0x0: 9.0%-->8.0%; 75°-->80°; 70-->60 BKB; 60-->50 KBG
-Hitbox ID=0x1: 13.0%-->14.0%; 46°-->42°
-summary: sour spot comboes better, sweet spot kills earlier

Forward tilt:
-Down-angled: 361°-->0° for both hitboxes
-summary: Down-angled f-tilt can jab lock at any percent and works as semi-spike on the ledge

Up tilt:
-IASA frame 37-->28
-Frame 4 hitboxes damage 1.5%-->1.0%; frame 7 hitboxes damage 8.0%-->6.0%, 50-->42 BKB; late hitbox damage
5.0%-->4.0%
-summary: less cooldown, damage, and base knockback allows it to combo into itself, but loses its killing potential

Down tilt: unchanged

Forward smash: unchanged

Up smash:
-Invincibility extended to frame 6; charge frame is now frame 7
-1st hitboxes now active 4 frames earlier (frame 24); active frames and cooldown adjusted accordingly (IASA frame now 95)
-summary: Now easier to time up smash parries due to longer invincibility and faster start-up

Down smash:
-All hitboxes last one extra frame (now hits 20-22, 29-31, 39-41)
-Hitboxes no longer become impotent after hitting
-summary: now easier to time ledge guards since every hit will cover 3 frames; safer on shields, since they won't render subsequent hitboxes null

Neutral air:
-First hitbox: 1.0-->0.5 hitlag; 2.0-->1.5 SDI
-summary: slightly safer on shield and harder to SDI out of

Forward air:
-AC 38-->34
-summary: will auto-cancel off of a short hop (Lucas's short hop lasts 35 frames without fast-falling)

Back air:
-start-up reduced 1 frame (now 14-19); cooldown adjusted
-Hitbox ID=0x0: damage 9.0%-->9.8%; 80-->75 KBG
-Hitbox ID=0x3: damage 7.0%-->5.0%; angle 361°-->0°
-summary: increased hitstun for body sour spot; PSI sour spot acts as a semi-spike

Up air:
-Start-up reduced two frames (now hits 5-7); cooldown adjusted accordingly
-Hitbox ID=0x0: damage 13.0%-->11.5%; size 5.2-->6.7; Y=14.0-->13.0
-summary: less start-up and bigger hitbox means it can better serve as a combo breaker; easier to hit with overall at the cost of damage

Down air:
-Hits 1-3 Hitbox ID=0x0 42-->52 BKB
-summary: increased base knockback will help link better (except while falling) by pulling the opponent upwards harder

Z-air:
-Damage: 4.0%-->5.0% early; 2.8-->3.0% late
-Hitbox sizes increased by 1 unit (2.3-->3.3, 2.0-->3.0)
-summary: easier to actually hit things

PK Freeze:
-21-->10 BKB, 80-->50 KBG
-summary: loses killing power, but makes follow-ups possible

PK Fire:
-Grounded IASA frame 53-->43; PK Fire started in the air will retain its air cooldown
-summary: less mobility is rewarded with shorter cooldown

PK Thunder:
-Cooldown reduced from 72 to 60
-PKT2 hit 12 angle 50°-->366°
-summary: cooldown reduced because 72 frames is ridiculous for no reason; final hit of PKT2 will launch in whatever direction Lucas is going

PSI Magnet:
-Start-up reduced two frames (magnet now appears frame 8)
-summary: easier to absorb things on reaction

Standing grab:
-active 10-19
-summary: shorter start-up
Dash grab:
-active 12 - 23; IASA frame 69
-summary: shorter start-up; grab box is out longer, but now has more cooldown
Pivot grab:
-active 10 - 21; IASA frame 69
-summary: longer-lasting grab box, but with increased cooldown

Forward throw:
-angle 48°-->50°
-summary: higher angle means it kills later (nerf)
Back throw:
-angle 41°-->40°
-summary: lower angle means it kills earlier
Up throw:
-damage: 10.0%-->12.0%, 90°; 78-->40 BKB, 69-->85 KBG
-summary: damage incresed; now kills eariler due to increased growth, but doesn't send opponents far at low percentages
Down throw: unchanged

 

[K3H]

Speaking of buffs wishlist (see: will never, ever happen)...

Spoiler: Lucas buffs wishlist

Jab combo:
-Jab 1 & 2; IASA frame 20-->16
-Jab 3: IASA frame 30-->38; damage 4.0%-->5.0%
-summary: Jab 1 & 2 are less commital, but jab 3 is a lot less safe on shield, though it does more damage

Dash attack:
-Hitbox ID=0x0: 9.0%-->8.0%; 75°-->80°; 70-->60 BKB; 60-->50 KBG
-Hitbox ID=0x1: 13.0%-->14.0%; 46°-->42°
-summary: sour spot comboes better, sweet spot kills earlier

Forward tilt:
-Down-angled: 361°-->0° for both hitboxes
-summary: Down-angled f-tilt can jab lock at any percent and works as semi-spike on the ledge

Up tilt:
-IASA frame 37-->28
-Frame 4 hitboxes damage 1.5%-->1.0%; frame 7 hitboxes damage 8.0%-->6.0%, 50-->42 BKB; late hitbox damage
5.0%-->4.0%
-summary: less cooldown, damage, and base knockback allows it to combo into itself, but loses its killing potential

Down tilt: unchanged

Forward smash: unchanged

Up smash:
-Invincibility extended to frame 6; charge frame is now frame 7
-1st hitboxes now active 4 frames earlier (frame 24); active frames and cooldown adjusted accordingly (IASA frame now 95)
-summary: Now easier to time up smash parries due to longer invincibility and faster start-up

Down smash:
-All hitboxes last one extra frame (now hits 20-22, 29-31, 39-41)
-Hitboxes no longer become impotent after hitting
-summary: now easier to time ledge guards since every hit will cover 3 frames; safer on shields, since they won't render subsequent hitboxes null

Neutral air:
-First hitbox: 1.0-->0.5 hitlag; 2.0-->1.5 SDI
-summary: slightly safer on shield and harder to SDI out of

Forward air:
-AC 38-->34
-summary: will auto-cancel off of a short hop (Lucas's short hop lasts 35 frames without fast-falling)

Back air:
-start-up reduced 1 frame (now 14-19); cooldown adjusted
-Hitbox ID=0x0: damage 9.0%-->9.8%; 80-->75 KBG
-Hitbox ID=0x3: damage 7.0%-->5.0%; angle 361°-->0°
-summary: increased hitstun for body sour spot; PSI sour spot acts as a semi-spike

Up air:
-Start-up reduced two frames (now hits 5-7); cooldown adjusted accordingly
-Hitbox ID=0x0: damage 13.0%-->11.5%; size 5.2-->6.7; Y=14.0-->13.0
-summary: less start-up and bigger hitbox means it can better serve as a combo breaker; easier to hit with overall at the cost of damage

Down air:
-Hits 1-3 Hitbox ID=0x0 42-->52 BKB
-summary: increased base knockback will help link better (except while falling) by pulling the opponent upwards harder

Z-air:
-Damage: 4.0%-->5.0% early; 2.8-->3.0% late
-Hitbox sizes increased by 1 unit (2.3-->3.3, 2.0-->3.0)
-summary: easier to actually hit things

PK Freeze:
-21-->10 BKB, 80-->50 KBG
-summary: loses killing power, but makes follow-ups possible

PK Fire:
-Grounded IASA frame 53-->43; PK Fire started in the air will retain its air cooldown
-summary: less mobility is rewarded with shorter cooldown

PK Thunder:
-Cooldown reduced from 72 to 60
-PKT2 hit 12 angle 50°-->366°
-summary: cooldown reduced because 72 frames is ridiculous for no reason; final hit of PKT2 will launch in whatever direction Lucas is going

PSI Magnet:
-Start-up reduced two frames (magnet now appears frame 8)
-summary: easier to absorb things on reaction

Standing grab:
-active 10-19
-summary: shorter start-up
Dash grab:
-active 12 - 23; IASA frame 69
-summary: shorter start-up; grab box is out longer, but now has more cooldown
Pivot grab:
-active 10 - 21; IASA frame 69
-summary: longer-lasting grab box, but with increased cooldown

Forward throw:
-angle 48°-->50°
-summary: higher angle means it kills later (nerf)
Back throw:
-angle 41°-->40°
-summary: lower angle means it kills earlier
Up throw:
-damage: 10.0%-->12.0%, 90°; 78-->40 BKB, 69-->85 KBG
-summary: damage incresed; now kills eariler due to increased growth, but doesn't send opponents far at low percentages
Down throw: unchanged

I'd honestly pay $200 to make this happen

 

[MrWhYYZ]

snip

You forgot changing Jab 1 to the sakurai angle so we can actually jablock with a jab. >.<

 

[JosePollo]

You forgot changing Jab 1 to the sakurai angle so we can actually jablock with a jab. >.<

Ehh. I like that his jab pops people up. Makes it easy to do a jab jab, shield, wait for them to try to break out with an aerial, then punish their landing lag. Also, sakurai angle jabs are easier to interrupt with opposing jabs due to them only causing the opponent to slide at early percentages. He's got plenty of moves that can jab lock already. If anything, make zair 361° instead of 45° so we can jab lock from afar. THAT would be an amazing buff.