Ledge Guarding vs Specific Recoveries

[Philzard]

I'd like to begin a discussion on how to ledge guard as Jigglypuff against each character. To make things easier, we can group recoveries into types. Note that some characters fall into more than one category due to multiple methods of recovering (up-B or side-B, etc.) or fall into no category at all.

Type 1 - Recoveries with hit boxes on the top. These characters tend to recover low. Examples - Marth, Lucina, Ryu, Peach, Ganondorf, Wario (?), Mr. Game & Watch, Little Mac, Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario, etc.

Type 2 - Recoveries with hit boxes on the sides. Some of these characters recover low. Examples - Link, Toon Link, Bowser Jr. (if attacking), Wii Fit Trainer, etc. Other characters recover from the side. Examples - Donkey Kong.

Type 3 - Recoveries with hit boxes all over. Examples - Ness, Lucas, Samus, Fox, Falco, Sheik (at beginning and end), etc.

Type 4 - Recoveries with no hit box. Examples - Pit, Dark Pit (up-B), Rosalina & Luma, Mega Man, Sonic, Villager, etc.

Type 5 - Recoveries from the side with a hit box on the side. Examples - Captain Falcon (side-B), Dark Pit (side-B), etc.

Discuss how you ledge guard against each of these types. You can be character specific if you'd like. Let's focus on ledge guarding (preventing your opponent from grabbing the ledge) since Jigglypuff is THE BEST gimper in the game and can easily begin a combo and kill from a successful ledge guard. If you think edge guarding (waiting on the stage, allowing your opponent to grab the ledge, but preventing them from getting to the center of the stage) is the only option against certain characters, then by all means discuss.

My opinion -

Type 1 gives me the most trouble. I don't know how many options Jiggly has against these recoveries. This is the main reason for beginning this thread.

Type 2 is the easiest. Their hit boxes are on the sides leaving their heads exposed. Drop down from above with a Nair. Easy peasy.

Type 3 is a challenge. Attacking your opponent during this type of recovery usually gets Jiggly hit in return. And Jiggly taking damage is no good unless doing so guarantees the kill.

Type 4 allows for anything, really. They will either shoot for the ledge, in which you can drop down and throw out a Nair, or they will shoot over your head aiming for the center of the stage. Either calls for a good read of your opponent.

Type 5 ... not quite sure. Let's discuss!

Thanks Smashboards. It's been a long time.

 

[Kalierdarke]

My opinions and personal strategy,

Type 1: If you get the timing, you can usually jump past them and bair them into the stage, as on most of them, their back is wide open. Usually not worth it to try and hit G&W or Ryu as they're fairly protected from puff in their recovery. Another option is just to chase far, as most of them don't have much horizontal on their recovery, if you can nair or fair them after they have used their jump, they usually can't make it back to the stage. Again, Ryu and G&W are kind of exempt from this as well.

Type 2: Dair works well, as if you aim it right you can throw them underneath stages that don't have a wall. Hit them with the dair and FF to pull them down further, and practice controlling which way you send them at the end.

Type 3: Ness I've found if you just hover over them(out of reach of up air) you can just eat the PK thunder and watch him fall to his death. Lucas you can punish with rest if he misses the ledge and lands on stage. otherwise your option is to aerial him after he uses PK Thunder, but before he hits himself. The others are very hard to punish unless they miss the ledge, Zelda and Sheik you can rest punish on their reappearance if they land on stage and you time/space it right(and obviously read whether they're aiming at you or above you). Can also nair them as they snap the ledge but it can be risky.

Type 4: Get the timing and just kick them under the stage/into the ledge. Dair works as well. ROB you have to be aware that he can cancel his to throw out an aerial before continuing his recovery.

Type 5- they're usually rather laggy at the end. learn the range and rest punish them if they land on stage. The pits are easy as shield > Rest punishes their Side B all day. If they don't go for the stage, approach from below with an up-air, or above with a dair will usually beat out their move. Be careful on Falco, Falcon, and Ganondorf as they can get an easy kill if you get hit off stage. I've found VS Ike it's usually better to just let him recover if he's doing a >B recovery. if he aims for the stage and you're in range you can punish. if he aims for the ledge it's very hard to beat him out.

Gimping recoveries is all about changing up how you approach based on what recovery your opponent has. Learn where their hitbox is, how far they can go, their speed, and any other facts about them such as armor or iframes or if they don't ledge snap. Type 1 recoveries are usually fairly easy for puff to challenge because just going out after them threatens even if you don't throw out an attack due to them frequently not being able to cover the horizontal distance if you land even 1 hit off stage.

Obviously, some recoveries in each type are harder or easier. Ness is easier than most others in that type, Ryu, G&W, Yoshi, and ROB are harder than the others in their recovery type.

 

[Philzard]

Great points.

Type 1 is so risky. If you miss, you are at a clear disadvantage as they are now on the stage and you are below. They can also tech if you hit them towards the stage. If you jump down early in attempt to knock them away from the stage, they can do their recovery early, most likely hitting you and getting to the ledge at the same time. Although both of these can work, there's gotta be a more optimal way.

Dair is definitely an option for Type 2. Much trickier to do. And you risk knocking them slightly upward with the last hit of Dair. I just see Nair as a better option since it will hit them sideways.

For Type 3, good points for Ness and Lucas, but what about Samus? Her recovery can kill Jiggly. It's awful haha.

Very good points though. I hope more people respond

 

[Kalierdarke]

As far as jumping down early against type 1, I mean early enough that if they use their up B there, they'll die, not when they're in range of grabbing the ledge. and they can't tech the ledge if you hit them close enough to the stage. Cloud really doesn't like being slammed into the ledge because 9/10 times he'll be too close to tech, and since he doesn't ledge snap, this is pretty easy to do.

Samus is certainly a pain to keep from recovering. I usually only go after samus offstage if she's above stage. Even, she can just tether the ledge. below she can up B and I honestly don't think puff can challenge it outside of a well timed rest. which still kills puff, and only takes out samus if you're absolutely precise on the timing. not worth the risk imo.

 

[nobleaggie]

I think it is also important to discuss tether recoveries as these can be difficult to get hits on, but if you get a hit it can lead to death (ZSS) or a doable edgeguard (Link, Lucas, Tink).

Type 1: If I don't get a good launch distance away from the edge I usually leave G&W, Peach, and the like, but on characters like Mario you can sometimes get a low percent favorable trade that could end with death for them. You can usually wait to dtilt little mac or cloud if up-b is used.

Type 3: Lucas, Falco and Ness you can hit with a well-spaced back air. If Ness is too far away for me to take the PKT2 damage then I usually dair dive popped away from the stage, fair and then float under to absorb it. It will pop you up making recovery safe. Fox you can get with a strong nair.

Type 5: Some you can dair dive, some you have to come from below, and some you can't fit without trading (sometime favorable). Fox and Falco can be weird, but sometimes you get a favorable trade.