Landing during Extremespeed

[Raijinken]

First, sorry if this has been discussed in detail elsewhere, I could only find a small post or two about it in the Changes thread.

A significant nerf to Lucario in 1.04 was his landing after Extremespeed. If you land it at most angles, Lucario takes his sweet time standing up. This was a pretty big nerf to his otherwise excellent recovery.

However, if you angle into the ground during the move (not afterward), he'll react far more quickly (it's identical to if you started the move and just held it onto the ground the whole time). Best I can tell, a 45 degree angle is sufficient for this (and also the easiest to do consistently). Works from the ground or from the air. You can test it easily by jumping and just plowing at a 45 degree angle into the nearest floor. It's harder, but possible, to do it from entirely offstage by looping around and adjusting your landing angle before impact.

Credit to @Varinoth for running into this.

 

[Space thing]

Keep in mind that if you land like this (or if you land in anyway with ES before going into free fall) you will receive RCO lag (the next time you land, you will suffer extra frames of landing lag). Fast fall landing seems to have the most added lag, and landing with an aerial seems to have the least. Landing on stage with ES sucks lol.

I think you also get RCO lag if, you're hit out of ES (or ES free fall) and land before grabbing the ledge, or if you use ES to go into a wall cling and land before grabbing the ledge (grabbing the ledge always seems to remove RCO lag).

 

[Kami~]

Anyone who plays the game knew honestly

 

[Raijinken]

Anyone who plays the game knew honestly

I've a hunch that you meant "Lucario," not "the game." Either way, it struck me as worth noting in the aftermath of his 1.04 nerf.

Keep in mind that if you land like this (or if you land in anyway with ES before going into free fall) you will receive RCO lag (the next time you land, you will suffer extra frames of landing lag). Fast fall landing seems to have the most added lag, and landing with an aerial seems to have the least. Landing on stage with ES sucks lol.

I think you also get RCO lag if, you're hit out of ES (or ES free fall) and land before grabbing the ledge, or if you use ES to go into a wall cling and land before grabbing the ledge (grabbing the ledge always seems to remove RCO lag).

Have we confirmed that RCO lag is still in Smash4? Can't say I've tested it myself, nor have I seen it brought up elsewhere.

 

[Pentao]

It was already discussed during the Overall Changes thread and the Social Thread soon after the 1.0.4 patch.

That said, I'm pretty sure Lucario cannot parallel land if he doesn't have any aura left to shoot from his paws. It's pretty decently well known that your main recovery options (if you cannot make it to the ledge) are parallel landing, cannonball landing (the one where you hit a surface with enough force that Lucario bounces momentarily instead of landing properly), and just hoping your opponent is asleep and won't punish you while you kiss the floor.

It's also been discussed that Ride the Wind has the same landing lag as pre-1.0.4 ExtremeSpeed while ExtremeSpeed Attack does not have much landing lag at all.

Default ExtremeSpeed is still pretty much the best one to use due to it's speed of movement. Ride the Wind can be used if you're forced onto a stage where grabbing the ledge is really hard or recovering from under the stage is viable, like Delfino Plaza, Skyloft, and Halberd, but the the slow speed of Ride the Wind really hurts whenever you're not using it close to the ledge (which defeats the purpose of the long range). ExtremeSpeed Attack is mostly just for screwing around when you have custom equipment on and don't need your up-B to recover anymore. In a competitive setting, it's pretty much just a shoddy choice.

 

[Space thing]

@ Raijinken

It does for Lucario, just not from ES'ing into the ledge. I've tested on the 3DS version and I've seen it in videos on the Wii U version. There might be differences on how it works between version for all I know, but I doubt it.

 

[Jay-kun]

Yes... this was already known, at least I figured it out.
Anyway.. yes this is very useful, maybe we should do more testing there could be a new AT, maybe someone could find the IASA frames, could be useful if you could attack right out of the up-b hit...

 

[Melonfrog]

I have no idea what all these terms are. Rco, Isasis(?) And ES? Someone help me please?

 

[Jay-kun]

ES is extremespeed
IASA frames are "interruptible a soon as" frames, it is the period of time where the lag of a move can be canceled or interrupted by another motion (dashing, attacking, etc)
RCO is recovery carryover lag, it was first found in Brawl. Some characters such as Lucario's up-b's give landing lag to you the next time you land (helpless, fastfalling, short-hopped aerials, etc) UNLESS you land with ES while in freefall/ helpless
I believe that this can be canceled by landing in the freefall animation, landing with an aerial, or being KOed
You can also get RCO by landing without doing anything (except for an airdodge)

 

[Karnu]

This nerf is like cancer to me </3

 

[Lavani]

Some specifics on this, with a visual aid.

Skidding landing is approximately 28f
Bonking into the ground is approximately 35f
Standard landing is 60f

 

[Jay-kun]

Some specifics on this, with a visual aid.

Skidding landing is approximately 28f
Bonking into the ground is approximately 35f
Standard landing is 60f

Also there is the bouncing landing(?), which is done by tilting up slightly before you touch the ground so you seem to "bounce"

 

[Enrel]

It's still really difficult to do it properly. I can only seem to achieve the skid at about a 50% success rate. Not quite sure what I'm doing wrong.

 

[RT]

As said before, you can angle diagonally towards the ground and it will automatically do the smooth version. You also have to make sure you are in the actual ES animation, I believe if you are not in the actual ES animation (the Aura is no longer propelling you forward), then you will be considered freefall.

 

[Enrel]

Well I'll try to be more vigilant in how I'm using ES and what frames I'm pressing it down on.