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Kirby's Warp Star Adventure: Kirby's Stage Discussion *Meta Knight Talk*

fromundaman

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Yeah, Mansion is auto-ban vs Zelda IMO.

Also, Halberd seems a bad idea since she can KO us off the top so early, and she has quite a number of KO moves off the top.

Just pick a stage where her recovery gets screwed. That's your biggest tool against her. Her recovery is just so bad...

Japes and RC are definitely good picks IMO.
 

Tiersie

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You and me both, are you my twin? =P

Ice Climbers is not much of a problem on Battlefield, but they're also not too friendly on that stage either, but better Battlefield than Smashville, or Final Destination. Snake shouldn't be too much of a bother on Battlefield though.


Hmm, considering the fact that there's an ocean between us... We might be :bee:

If I'm playing climbers or snake it's insta ban FD for me. You need platforms against those guys (and girl). And snake's just a pain no matter what, so is IC's... My two worst MU's for sure.
 

Lord Viper

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Now I see the light of Battlefield vs Snake is bad. Today's tourney, (which had ****ed up rules, but it's a tourney near my house, play only one match then move on and play Battlefield, Final Destination and Smashville only, WTF), I went to I played a Snake, and couldn't do crap but punish. Maybe it's because I suck at Battlefield, or because I was playing an LCD HD TV without the right components, or maybe I john too much today? Alright I'm to sure all the way because of those reasons, but I need more Kirby mains to tell the tell.

As for Zelda, currently pick Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise for her. Strike Battlefield, and ban Battlefield and Luigi's Mansion.
 

Tiersie

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Battlefield vs everything is bad. Seriously I'd put it off my random stage list if I had not put some epic music there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFCdXtV9Gfo < Oh hell yes. But yes my mentality concerning battlefield = strike and ban unless there's an even worse stage that I can be taken to (usually not the case)

So it probably a combination of horrible stage and horrible character to fight against. And maybe the eternal curse of the LCD tv. Although I myself am not affected by that too much most of the time.
 

Triple R

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I'll admit battlefield isn't the greatest against certain characters, but I think you guys just have an antibattlefield personalities or something. Those platforms can really aid Kirby in his combos.

On a Zelda note though, yeah I wouldn't take her to battlefield if given the choice. She can use platforms pretty well to camp and stay in a protected spot under the platforms. Like people have said, take her to japes, maybe frigate too.
 

Jester Kirby

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Kirby is going to be a bit more disadvantaged on Green Greens generally, as it favors campy characters. However the blocks can still work to your advantage, you can use the final cutter blade and stone to set off the explodeing blocks. (Be carefull with B-Down though! Don't SD by accident!) You can also abuse your 5 jumps to do a little sufing benath the stage if one of the block pits is empty. The stage is small though...Kirby;s light weight will become much more obvious here.

I'd say neutral/ballanced is fair for this stage. The blocks are going to mess up Falco or other camps that Kirby has trouble approaching, so it can sometimes force them into close combat which is where Kirby typically wants to be..just the stage is very small and cramped.
 

Lord Viper

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Yea, I think we should change Green Green's to normal since most of the big characters do very well there, even characters that has a bad recovery do very well there. >.<

I'm guessing were done with Zelda for now?
 

Kewkky

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Bring Zelda to Lylat Cruise... It's funny! And not funny as in a glitch happens, but funny as in "her recovery is horrible here because of the tilting", "the ceiling is at a pretty nice distance, as well as the sides", "careful landing plans and use of our multiple jumps makes it so we can avoid her usmashes through platforms, while our usmashes still get her due to she not being able to do anything about her landing trajectory", etc...

My late 2 cents.
 

Kewkky

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I think this thread got abandoned due to lack of motivation on our pat, as Kirby mainers...


I dunno, Kirby doesn''t do bad on any stages, and his best stages are completely under our discretion; I myself love BF over many other places, and believe Frigate, Brinstar, RC, and PokeStadium 1 to be "OK" stages... A buttload of other mainers would debate with me over this if I were to say it's a fact and not an opinion.
 

Lord Viper

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I'm unabandoneding it. New character time, I'm thinking Pit or should we talk more on S and A tier characters?
 

fromundaman

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Heh Kewk, I know exactly what you mean. To be fair though, with a character as well rounded as ours, most CP choices come down to opinion, though there are interesting things you can do on just about all of them.
 

Lord Viper

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Since my stage discussion is outdated, should I start all over, (except for the Zelda discussion), or should I just continue?
 

fromundaman

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Just want to say right now, Pika is one of the few characters not to bring to PS1. Seriously, don't do it.
 

Lord Viper

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or why don't we start at snake and work our way down (since its generaly agreed mk has no bad stages).
We could start the list like that, but we have to start all over, which isn't a problem since I need to update anyways.

Just want to say right now, Pika is one of the few characters not to bring to PS1. Seriously, don't do it.
Of course you have to say why Pokemon Stadium is a bad stage to take Pikachu. Fire field, stay away from the trap zones near the burning tree or you are force to shield if Pikachu attacks first. Rock field, make sure your not above Pikachu below the platforms for Thunder to come, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what Pikachu is about to do. Water field, don't get above the windmill. Grass field should be netrual, Normal field as well.
 

Lord Viper

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Ok, I decided to start over with the characters I've already done due to the stage picks being out dated, (except Zelda). So far I'm currently mostly hearing Zero Suit Samus so I'll start with her:

Character Talk #2 Zero Suit Samus



As before, I expect to see different post about what stage to pick, and what stage to stay away from:

Counter Pick: What Stage to pick against

Stage Strike: At the beginning of your round, what stage to stay away from, (only applies to Starter & Starter/Counter Pick stages).

Banned: What stage to absolutely stay away from, meaning it would be very difficult to fight there.


One more thing, THIS IS NOT A MATCH UP THREAD!!! KEEP ALL MATCH UP THOUGHTS IN THE MATCH UP THREAD!!! Just to make sure everyone know this already.
 

A1lion835

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Jungle Japes is the best because it neutralizes her uair, so you can live crazy long. Worst thing you have to watch out for is being spiked into the water or something.
Frigate Orpheon is good, NS on the left and no ledge on the right makes her recovery even more telegraphed.
Brinstar is bad because it emphasizes air game and makes ground game a worse idea, which is absolutely a terrible idea.
I dunno what to stage strike, just go with what you're comfortable with IMO.
 

Lord Viper

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I can't really find what Zero Suit Samus can abuse in Brinstar to tell you the truth. The only stage I find Zero Suit Samus hard was Final Destination and Yoshi's Island, it's not easy to decide a stage is good her against Kirby IMO.
 

Kewkky

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Her worst stages should be Jungle Japes (she practically loses her aerial sideB due to the stage's many ledges) and Frigate Orpheon (if a stage has no ledges where ledges should be, gimping her got tremendously easier)... I know from experience. :p
 

A1lion835

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I can't really find what Zero Suit Samus can abuse in Brinstar to tell you the truth. The only stage I find Zero Suit Samus hard was Final Destination and Yoshi's Island, it's not easy to decide a stage is good her against Kirby IMO.
It's not that ZSS can abuse it, it's that you want to be fighting ZSS on the ground and not in the air, and brinstar emphasizes air and discourages ground play.

I'd take ZSS to YI, but I'd do that basically with anyone because it's my best neutral.

Her worst stages should be Jungle Japes (she practically loses her aerial sideB due to the stage's many ledges) and Frigate Orpheon (if a stage has no ledges where ledges should be, gimping her got tremendously easier)... I know from experience. :p
Agreed.
 

fromundaman

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JJ, FO, and, if it's on, PTAD, are the best stages to take her.

Brinstar is a good stage for her... as I recently found out to my own detriment... What A1 said is true, and it helps her kill early as well.
 

Lord Viper

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It's not that ZSS can abuse it, it's that you want to be fighting ZSS on the ground and not in the air, and brinstar emphasizes air and discourages ground play.

I'd take ZSS to YI, but I'd do that basically with anyone because it's my best neutral.
I see what your talking about now. Sadly it's not often I play against Zero Suit Samus, (or play as her), so I'll leave it to the rest of you to shead some light on this talk.
 

Dooms

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Stage Strike: Battle field is probably a bad neutral to take her too, because I am pretty sure her downsmash goes through the platforms and that can really mess us up since we like to approach in the air. Final D gives ZSS great control of her projectiles in the begining of the game and can help her later with no platforms to help avoid her side-b/downsmash. Smashville really isn't that bad, plus it can catch some of the projectiles, which can be a positive and a negative thing. Yoshi Island brawl probably helps her with the tilting platform and stuff, because if used right, it can be a great advantage to either character. Her downsmash also goes through it if I remember correctly, so thats a very bad thing if you want to... you know... air approach. Although, the tilting basicly makes the pieces go away if they are thrown once. Smashville is the best choice in my opinion. Zero Suit Samus is going to try to space side-b's, so if you take her to smashville, you can jump around on the platform to avoid it, and then punish afterwards. Avoiding the pieces on smashville is way easier because she now has to throw them either down, up, or jump -> forward throw, because now there is a platform, and if she chooses to jump -> forward throw, thats one piece gone, which makes the begining of the game so much easier.

Counter Pick: For me, getting downsmashed = death, so I would want to counter pick Zero Suit Samus to frigate instead of japes(and I myself don't really like japes either). Frigate has the stage switch that can really mess Zero Suit up more then us. Plus, one side having no ledge = really easy gimping. Japes does have many ledges, which makes gimping Zero Suit Samus impossible, but spacing side specials is also very hard to do because of said ledges. I don't know enough about japes to argue it any further. If you take a Zero Suit to frigate, I'm pretty sure they will camp the left side until it changes, so they have way less of a chance of getting gimped. Try to get them to roll to the other side, or put so much pressure on them that they have to get away some how, which could be going to the other side or just a downsmash, which can be punished. Once she is on the right side, just keep on doing kirby stuff. space airials and stuff. when she gets off the stage even slightly, try to down air/back air to keep her off of the stage, since she can't really recover. After the stage change, avoid being in the middle, because her downsmash can catch you with the way the stage is formed.

Ban: I would ban Castle Seige, because she has more control of it then we do in my opinion. The first stage is basicly a free forward special spacing, dsmash is really easy to hit, pieces can be abused really badly, that type of stuff. Second stage has the statues which makes avoiding everything so much harder. Third stage isn't really as bad as the rest of it. But yeah, avoid this stage against ZSS. Battle Field/Final D are also pretty good for ZSS. Mansion is good too, but its barely legal, so you don't need to really worry about that.

Sorry if all of this has been said, or some of it is wrong. I'm just trying to contribute ^-^.
 

Triple R

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As far as neutrals go, I would take her to Battlefield. When I play ZSS's they tend to play a spacing/keep away game, and try at all costs to keep you away. Battlefield seems like the neutral stage that is smallest, meaning she doesn't have as easy of time running away and keeping you away. Is there another neutral that people think works well for getting in close?

You guys got all the counter picks already.

As far as banning goes, I really have no idea. I would probably just ban FD so I don't have to deal with the spacing game as much. I don't have that much ZSS experience.
 

fromundaman

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Triple R, you have a point, but the thing is ZSS can abuse those platforms MUCH better than you can. She can just sit under one and you become forced to approach horizontally, or from above; both of which are bad, especially on this stage. Basically, BF limits your option to approach her from an angle, which is pretty much the best way to approach her.
 

Dooms

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^That. You want a stage that doesn't have too much platform, because she has great control of those, but has atleast one platform, to avoid good spacing game/suit pieces; making smashville a great stage to take her for the neutral.
 

fromundaman

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Of course you have to say why Pokemon Stadium is a bad stage to take Pikachu. Fire field, stay away from the trap zones near the burning tree or you are force to shield if Pikachu attacks first. Rock field, make sure your not above Pikachu below the platforms for Thunder to come, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what Pikachu is about to do. Water field, don't get above the windmill. Grass field should be netrual, Normal field as well.
Late reply, but I'd missed this post.

Basically, just pick Pikachu one day and just look at how well Thundershock allows camping on PS1, since it goes around literally every terrain object that appears, He also has a jab infinite on the rock stage, he can QAC pretty much everywhere, the terrain helps make thunder effective, I believe his Fsmash goes through the tree, and he has multiple moves that can hit below the stage lip from the stage. There's probably more, but I haven't played that MU there in a bit, since I now try to avoid it like the plague. I'll take FD against him over this place anyday!
 

TaterSalad0811

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I like taking ZSS to the *BUMP* stage, just really screws with her recovery.

On another note, what about rainbow cruise? The level encourages aerial game, and only really is subjest for aerial K.O.'s on the upper part of the level, where you can jab lock her. Falcon discuss this.
 

KaptainKrunch

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As far as neutrals go, I would take her to Battlefield. When I play ZSS's they tend to play a spacing/keep away game, and try at all costs to keep you away. Battlefield seems like the neutral stage that is smallest, meaning she doesn't have as easy of time running away and keeping you away. Is there another neutral that people think works well for getting in close?

You guys got all the counter picks already.

Agreed. Space is essential for Kirby, keeping ZSS close would be your best option.
 
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