Kirby's Place in 3.5

[Jinjo64]

Will more balanced recoveries make Kirby better and easier to edgeguard with or will our little pink puffball be reduced to 1 jump. Discuss!

Also I have a hard time finishing off Mario, Mewtwo, GnW, and Wolf. So woot for balancing recoveries!

 

[Phan7om]

Will more balanced recoveries make Kirby better and easier to edgeguard with or will our little pink puffball be reduced to 1 jump. Discuss!

Also I have a hard time finishing off Mario, Mewtwo, GnW, and Wolf. So woot for balancing recoveries!

More balanced recoveries will definitely make Kirby a lot better. But what is this about being Kirby reduced to 1 jump lol, that'll never happen. But tbh, I desire a lot more changes to Kirby that Im sure lots of people would disagree with but is the best for the character.

Guys, I know that the next version of PM will come out within a month or so... so they're probably done with Kirby, but what changes would you guys like to see in him. Personally this is my changelist.

Normals
Jab: Same
Ftilt: Same
Dtilt: Forces tumble at much earlier %s
Utilt: Slightly less knockback growth(only a difference at higher %s)
Dash Attack: Reduce priority
Specials
Neutral: Decrease timer, remove release and replace with starshot, mash out easier, lose jumps if starshot release/starshot/copy offstage, reduce air mobility while using by half, grabbox is reduced to 90 frames before it ends automatically making it no longer infinite
Side: Same
Down: Same
Up: Melee FC projectile restored, Meteor instead of spike, cant grab ledge from back unless
sweetspot
Aerials
Up: Melee knockback angles and Hitboxes restored
Down: Slightly quicker startup
Forward: Same
Back: Same
Neutral: Same
Smashes
Up: Sweetspot extends to whole foot
Down: Slightly more range(Horizontal range being in between Dtilt and Utilt)
Forward/Side: Same
Throws
Up: More knockback growth, kills floaties around 110-130% FD. Still retains combo potential under 30%
Down: A lot less knockback, tech chase throw, basically Melee's with more hitstun. Less cooldown after throw.
Forward: Slightly more vertical knockback angle
Back: Same
Extra
Wavedash: Slightly more distance (similar to Samus')
Air Mobility: Increase (st ZSS')
Run Speed: Same
Grab Range: Increase (st Pit's)
Hitboxes: Hurtbox doesnt cover furtheset 20% of his feet, hitboxes remain the same.
Copy: Abilities exactly like original w/ minor tweaks
Everything Else Not Mentioned: Same

 

[Prism]

Kirby definitely won't be nerfed at all, and having one jump (even though I'm pretty sure you were joking) would totally take away half of what Kirby's recognized for (the other half being the copy ability)

 

[Jinjo64]

I was joking about the jumps, but I would changes too. I want up throw to be a kill move. kirby from 64 :D

 

[Frost | Odds]

I actually really like Gohan's changelist, though imo dair could use more than a little decrease on its startup.

Kirbycides are cool, but super dumb.

 

[skellitorman]

I'd be fine with removing Kirbycides if we got significant buffs.

As for Gohan's suggestions: The Copy fix should definitely be there. Something should be done so that Fox can no longer be able to punish Kirby for being copied. Also forward throw and up throw should do more damage.

I don't agree with the other inhale nerfs or the FC nerfs. If Kirbycide was removed then there is no need to make it more difficult to inhale.

 

[MrDrJacob]

I agree 100% on the changes to the dash attack. It's almost too safe to use at times.

 

[Unwavering_Canadian]

Give Kirby a better dair, more knockback, should act more like spike (more similar to what he had in N64 smash). I've stopped edgeguarding with dair because it often gives opponents their up-b back due to the negligible knockback. You'll hit a fox with dair, and they're like oh sweet, I get to use up-b again from a closer spot.

 

[SSS]

guys if you're consistently kirbyciding your opponents to the point that it's dumb than your opponents suck. Edgeguarding with dair isn't fantastic but it can be good if you fast fall with it, essentially dragging them down with you. Nairing fox during is upb startup is very good. you can nair them twice to make sure. (they start upb, nair, they start upb, nair).

 

[Frost | Odds]

Even with that one super-niche use, it's a really lame move. Goddamn jigglypuff gets more mileage out of her dair.

 

[SSS]

Even with that one super-niche use, it's a really lame move. Goddamn jigglypuff gets more mileage out of her dair.

you can also dair through their shield and it has a good amount of shieldstun and it's a really good crossup so they can't shield grab and if you do it through their shield so that you're behind them and you start utilting if they try to do something OoS they'll get hit by utilt.

EDIT: Also on a lot of characters (particularly floaty ones) dair to grab is a thing and on some characters at certain percents dair to upsmash is a thing so yeah, dair is good

 

[Rᴏb]

can kirby from 64 just be copy/pasted into this game?

 

[Frost | Odds]

his utilt was copy/pasted to Falco

 

[FreeGamer]

D-Air is pretty good for punishing people on platforms. I spam it too much in general, but that 18% is all too tempting. :>

 

[Jinjo64]

Been playing Yoshi as a joke lately. His up tilt is hilariously good. Also I found out that Kirby does 25% atm with wario's chomp. (This is due to it still being the brawl version). Most likely to be fixed next update.

 

[1FD]

I like jacked-up copying abilities
It's not jacked up but I did a 0 to death on a lucas while hitting him with 2 PK freezes mid combo ending in fsmash
was sick
I want more awesome reasons to actually COPY using COPY

 

[Jinjo64]

I like jacked-up copying abilities
It's not jacked up but I did a 0 to death on a lucas while hitting him with 2 PK freezes mid combo ending in fsmash
was sick
I want more awesome reasons to actually COPY using COPY

True that! Copy abilities look amazing in smash 4 though. Also Copy abilities are way better in teams because with 3 other people on the screen. One of them is bound to have a good ability!

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Take Kirby's Dair, Fair, Fsmash (Angry face and all), Dsmash, fthrow (w slightly more knockback) and Utilt from 64 and Bam! Top tier character.

I would also like fthrow (the one he has now, not the 64 version) to have more combo ability. Of course, I know I can't have it all.

 

[trash?]

basically having the only good recovery in a sea of more reasonable recoveries is more than enough of a buff to me

copy abilities are mostly gimmicky right now? having them set up in such a way to specifically deal with the character you copied off of could be neat, but could also be dangerously broken and murder matchups kirby already wins

 

[Jinjo64]

basically having the only good recovery in a ivea of more reasonable recoveries is more than enough of a buff to me

copy abilities are mostly gimmicky right now? having them set up in such a way to specifically deal with the character you copied off of could be neat, but could also be dangerously broken and murder matchups kirby already wins

So copy abilities actually help bad matchups better. such as mario. for fun I like wario's, Ivysaur, and zss.

 

[FreeGamer]

Some of them are silly gimmicks, some of them are actually pretty useful. My only problem with Copy is that it deals a measly 3% damage.

 

[Phan7om]

Damage isnt really an issue on copy tbh, the biggest problem I have with copy is that they can attack right out of it. Of course you can avoid punishment by jumping forward/backwards while doing it, but why do we have to? Starshot should be your damage option.

Copy is very gimmicky, no doubt about that but its only gimmicky because barely anyone (both the Kirby and the opponent) knows what to do once it happens. This goes for every character in some way. Me and a few others actually know how to use them but that doesnt change the fact that the opponents dont incorporate them into their matchup knowledge. I always say in a few years this could change but idk, Kirby's been around since 64 and its no different lol. Thats why I want so many people to actually use them, even the bad ones, so they become more normal, and spread awareness that this is an option of Kirby's cuz right now most people dont even consider it and when someone does mention it they're like "oh, no good kirby will do that". But like Canon said, I use to think that they had to help him in the matchup, but that would indeed make Kirby the best in the game if he had no bad matchups because of that. If they just make them like the original it'd be perfectly fine. We just need to learn to use them thats all.

The biggest deal is all the other changes Kirby needs. Like every character he should rely on the players fundamentals, copy aside. Baiting, punishing, mindgames, spacing, movement, edgeguarding, getting gimps, combos, and mixups are how a good fundamental Kirby should be played... not spamming dash attack and/or camping the ledge with inhale. So in 3.5, I hope they make the right changes, I have faith in the PMBR. And if they dont there's always next patch hahaha!

 

[FreeGamer]

If Inhale and Dash Attack get nerfed, I do hope they compensate him in some way. Maybe make U-Throw and F-Throw more combo friendly? A little more air speed perhaps?

 

[Unwavering_Canadian]

Don't nerf Dash Attack. Kirby can't get in on ranged characters without it. A nerf like that would make Kirby low tier. And he already can't compete with broken Mew2, Metaknight, Lucas, etc... Can I haz betr dair plz??? Plz???

 

[Phan7om]

Id say Dash Attack needs to be reworked, not nerfed. Its a really polarizing option kirby has right now. And im sure ranged characters can beat out dash attack anyway.

 

[internetmovieguy]

Make kirby just like his melee self but he gets an instant KO with swallow to a-line more with his games.

 

[internetmovieguy]

basically having the only good recovery in a sea of more reasonable recoveries is more than enough of a buff to me

copy abilities are mostly gimmicky right now? having them set up in such a way to specifically deal with the character you copied off of could be neat, but could also be dangerously broken and murder matchups kirby already wins

Kirby vs falco is a lot of fun for kirby. Short Hop Double Lasers