Kirby's Matchup Rankings

[SpikeSpiegel19]

I disagree with the above statement, MK maybe faster but his attack range allows Kirby to shield grab MK ****less. Honestly, all kirby needs to beat MK is grab and his smashes (i am exaggerating) but u get my point

i say 5:5

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

What? Get him in the mid percents and you can starspike him pretty reliably. And to bring up what the BR's char of the week thread said about R.O.B., if you're on the ground and behind him he's wide open. He's probably a 4-6 matchup.

No you can't.. Raising Uair is pretty much denial...

ROB>Kirby [in this matchup]

 

[Mr. Escalator]

G&W is certainly not even with Kirby.
He beats the puff ball.
Sadly, that is :[

 

[Demised]

I've never had any problems with kirby v.s. ROB and i've played some of the best robs on the west coast.

 

[TwilightKirby]

I've never had any problems with kirby v.s. ROB and i've played some of the best robs on the west coast.

have you played hugs or blitz? they are the ones who i have problems with O.o

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

I've never had any problems with kirby v.s. ROB and i've played some of the best robs on the west coast.

T0MMY is not good

 

[Demised]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FfZjmnSFkk

This is the ROB i play mostly. Nah I havent played Hugs or Blitz in Brawl yet. Maybe this weekend since im goin to Cali.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

G&W is certainly not even with Kirby.
He beats the puff ball.
Sadly, that is :[

Disagree, i can beat G&W just as easily as he can beat Kirby

the match up for me changed from 7:3 in favor of G&W to 5:5 even split

 

[Deg222]

Maybe it's because I play online more than locally, but ROB is always such a pain to approach. He spaces so well between his lasers, gyro discs, and his tilts (mostly down tilt). If you even try to rush him on the ground, expect a sidestep to down smash every time. And it's close to impossible to hit him out of the sidestep animation because he just sidesteps so freaking fast.

In the air he pretty much out ranges you in every way. Kirby's best bet is to approach slowly with back airs. Also copying his ability helps to make him approach you by spamming that laser as much as you can (of course you have to wait a few seconds between each laser).

Kirby simply has to be more cautious in this fight than a lot of others making him have the disadvantage.

 

[CaliburChamp]

From my experience, I made a list of what characters Kirby is Good and Bad against. The ones not on this list are neutral, or I'm not sure of.

Kirby is good against...

1. Bowser
2. DK
3. Sonic
4. Ganon
5. Fox
6. Wolf
7. Falco
8. C. Falcon
9. Charizard
10. Diddy Kong

Kirby is bad against...

1. R.O.B.
2. Dedede
3. Meta knight
4. Zelda
5. Marth
6. G&W
7. Pikachu
8. Yoshi

The rest are mostly neutral, or I'm not sure of.
Most of the characters that Kirby is good against is characters with bad recoverys, easy to combo and hit with the hammer. And they dont have a very good solid defense against Kirby.

The characters that Kirby is bad against are characters with double jointed hit boxes, quick powerful attacks, hard to gimp recoveries and unpunishable recoveries due to super armor frames, such as D3 and Yoshi's double jump, constant barrages of projectiles, Pikachu, and R.O.B.
I hope this is a good list for everybody here to agree on.

 

[Dpete]

I think early in this thread someone *cough Gonzo cough* mentioned DDD's recovery was gimpable, but yet I keep hearing the opposite. I think getting that worked out will help solidify our ranking of DDD (currently 6-4 in favor of Kirby).

Also, I think a lot of people are still undecided about the Meta Knight matchup. Here's a list of pro's and con's I gathered from around this thread:

Meta Knight

+Kirby is hard to gimp (one of MK's specialties)
+Kirby has plenty of Kill options
+MK's range gives Kirby a superior grab game

-Kirby can't gimp MK either
-MK is hard to Combo
-MK has better priority/speed
-Less lag on MK's attacks

Looks pretty even to me... I'm sure I missed something though.

 

[Delta Z]

Disjointed hitboxes. And you forgot Link under the "good against" column. And Pikachu is more of an even matchup.

About some of the perceived higher tiers, based on what I know and what other guys are saying:
Snake: 3-7
Mr. Game & Watch: 4-6
Metaknight: 4.5-5.5
King Dedede: 5-5
Toon Link: 5-5
Marth: 3.5-6.5

Also, haven't heard anything about Lucario (my third) yet, but that matchup seems even.

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

Kirby Vs ROB matchup...

The first thing before i begin writing this, and you begin reading this is to assume that Gonzo is a pro Kirby player, and Chozen is a Pro ROB player.. If you disagree, then stop now. You will waste your time b/c nothing i have to enlighten you about the matchup will hold water.


ROB is basically a Kirby counter.


At best Kirby is at a disadvantage.. at worst the Kirby will be unable to approach the ROB, and get completely out camped by range, and projectiles.


In this matchup Kirby has 1 option.. be EXTREMELY AGGRESSIVE, and get in the ROB's face so he is unable to camp Kirby. The ROB play in return can either..

A- Camp
B- Space and Gimp

It is honestly quite silly on Kirby's behalf due to the fact that he is quite light and ROB's Nair/Bair/Fsmash all KO Kirby [realistically] around 120%.. when Kirby himself cannot down ROB until around 140+.. this is probably the most annoying part of this matchup for ANY Kirby player.. and if you're in the air against ROB his Nair can KO @ 80ish... that is just plain ridiculous.

Sure Kirby can EASILY do 50-75 damage from 0... but unless the ROB is recovering the Kirby can't really kill the ROB player very reliably. And let us also not forget that Though Kirby is often quite skilled at performing Dair-->Deaths on MANY toons in the great game of Brawl, ROB has bassically the BEST UpB in the game and b/c of this isn't really gimped by Kirby unless he is VERY low, and gets "lucky jumped" at the end of his barrage of kicks.

Speaking of not being able to Gimp ROB w/ Kirby.. ROB is quite good @ Gimping Kirby Bair/Nair eats though his UpB.. and ledge canceled Dairs are amazing in this matchup.. Fair knocks Kirby futher than he can jump back, so basically talk about turning a strength into a weakness....

Oh yeah.. and ROB can COMPLETELY outspace Kirby, and there is nothing he can do about it.. the only real saving grace Kirby has is the fact that ROB's Dair/Bair/Nair ALL have massive startup lag.. ie 2 blindspots.. so Kirby's Utilt/Bair are very good in this matchup.. other then that...

No Jones.

 

[Delta Z]

Yeah, but you gotta have perfect timing to hit Kirby out of Final Cutter. FC is fast, and has good priority.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

Yeah, but you gotta have perfect timing to hit Kirby out of Final Cutter. FC is fast, and has good priority.

Its not that fast and its easily gimped

Kirby by far, in my opinion, has the worst upB in the game. Second only to Lucario's

 

[Dpete]

Well, I think Chozen made it clear that Kirby is at a disadvantage to ROB, to the point I'm considering changing it to 3-7, making it in the same difficulty as Snake and Marth.

Before that I organized some general thoughts that have been posted about Meta Knight, everyone be sure to take a look at that so we can get that matchup as correct as possible.

Let's expand our discussion to some new characters, namely the Pokemon:

Pikachu
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Charizard
Pokemon Trainer (as a whole)

I know the tier discussion had some issues with the divisions of Pokemon Trainer, but for our purposes getting a rating on each Pokemon individually will help get a clear rating for PT as a whole.

 

[Blackbelt]

I'll leave Pikachu, jigglypuff, and Lucario to people more experienced, but I do know alot of the Trainer.


Squirtle: 5-5. Squirtle is one of the few fighters lighter than Kirby, making an easy KO. And Yet Squirlte can go toe to toe with Kirby in the air, and you have to be careful using your UP-B as recovery, as it can leave you wide open for a Watr Gun Gimp.

Charizard: 4-6. Charizard may have slow attacks, but he can run fast, and he's rather mobile in the air (Compared to other power characters) and he is heavy, and hard to gimp, and even his faster moves have enough power to KO Kirby. You'll have to be very defensive in this bout

Ivysaur: 7-3. Kirby can easily get passed all of Ivysaur's projectiles, and easily take advantage of all of the lag Ivysaur suffers from. And Kirby can steal Bullet Seed, which is easily the best move in the Pokemon Trainer arsenal. Just watch out for the Up Smash.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

I hate Lucario, that match up is at best 4:6 but prob 7:all the other pokemon is 6:4 for Kirby and Pika is 5:5

 

[Demised]

I find Kirby to demolish dedede honestly. Everytime he up B's back i meet him with a hammer. He dies off pretty easy because of it. Also at the beginning up tilt leads into so many combos =)

 

[CaliburChamp]

I find Kirby to demolish dedede honestly. Everytime he up B's back i meet him with a hammer. He dies off pretty easy because of it. Also at the beginning up tilt leads into so many combos =)

D3 has super armor frames during his Up+B. So how are you able to hit D3 with a hammer? At the start of D3's jump? I'd like to know this.
And I think all the match ups with the pokemon are neutral, except that Kirby does good against Charizard, and he doesnt do so well against Pikachu.

And I believe Chosen One. R.O.B. is a true counter to Kirby in every way. I made a thread about how to defeat R.O.B. and read feedback from other players. But even with that knowledge, its still hard to beat a very good R.O.B. I played quite a few on Game battles and Wifi wars so I know what I'm talking about.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

D3 has super armor frames during his Up+B. So how are you able to hit D3 with a hammer? At the start of D3's jump? I'd like to know this.
And I think all the match ups with the pokemon are neutral, except that Kirby does good against Charizard, and he doesnt do so well against Pikachu.

And I believe Chosen One. R.O.B. is a true counter to Kirby in every way. I made a thread about how to defeat R.O.B. and read feedback from other players. But even with that knowledge, its still hard to beat a very good R.O.B. I played quite a few on Game battles and Wifi wars so I know what I'm talking about.

After the peak of DDD's upB he loses super armor so basically u have to gauge what his highest point will be and wait to hit with Hammer.

 

[Dpete]

Alright guys, before now we were discussing the higher tier characters, and everyone was very detailed on their reasons why they thought Kirby was advantaged or disadvantaged in a matchup. I want to make sure this thread is as objective as possible, so we have to have equal discussion about low tier characters backed by concrete facts, not just opinions. Not saying I doubt your opinions, quite the opposite, but I'm sure if we overlook a character then we'll have someone in here complaining about said character's matchup. Might as well do it right the first time, eh? If we need some more information on specific characters, I'll be more than happy to do some digging around the forums and get a more knowledgeable source in here, as I've done before.

On a more positive note, this thread is the official Kirby matchup thread over on the matchup chart thread. So we should be getting a little more attention from the rest of the community now.

 

[Demised]

D3 has super armor frames during his Up+B. So how are you able to hit D3 with a hammer? At the start of D3's jump? I'd like to know this.
And I think all the match ups with the pokemon are neutral, except that Kirby does good against Charizard, and he doesnt do so well against Pikachu.

And I believe Chosen One. R.O.B. is a true counter to Kirby in every way. I made a thread about how to defeat R.O.B. and read feedback from other players. But even with that knowledge, its still hard to beat a very good R.O.B. I played quite a few on Game battles and Wifi wars so I know what I'm talking about.

Right at the top of the arc of d3's up B, IT hits hard enough to knock him out,

 

[Deg222]

I think early in this thread someone *cough Gonzo cough* mentioned DDD's recovery was gimpable, but yet I keep hearing the opposite. I think getting that worked out will help solidify our ranking of DDD (currently 6-4 in favor of Kirby).

Also, I think a lot of people are still undecided about the Meta Knight matchup. Here's a list of pro's and con's I gathered from around this thread:

Meta Knight

+Hard to gimp (one of MK's specialties)
+Plenty of Kill options
+Lacks range
+Good Grab game

-Can't gimp either
-Hard to Combo
-Lack of priority

Looks pretty even to me... I'm sure I missed something though.

Which are the Pros and Cons here? lol

Btw, you missed that Metaknight has less lag overall on all his attacks. I just find that Metaknight is just overall a bit faster than Kirby giving Kirby not much of a disadvantage, but some. 6:4 in MK's favor imo.

 

[Dpete]

Wow, I just went back to read that myself and I realize how unclear it was. I think when I was writing it up I may have considered MK's speed but lumped it together as a facet of priority, I'll seperate the two. Also added MK has less lag to his moves. I want to get a few more opinions before I change the rating though.

 

[Deg222]

I don't think Metaknight lacks range against Kirby. To me they both seem to have about the same range, you guys think so?

 

[Dpete]

I disagree with the above statement, MK maybe faster but his attack range allows Kirby to shield grab MK ****less. Honestly, all kirby needs to beat MK is grab and his smashes (i am exaggerating) but u get my point

i say 5:5

This is where I got that from. I'm assuming he meant that his short attack range allows the grabs.

 

[Deg222]

Ah I see, but I think that would go with "Kirby's superior grab game".

I just know that if I'm attacking at the same time as a MK, our range is about the same and you never know who is gonna hit the other one.

 

[Dpete]

Ah okay, thanks for helping me get that cleared up. New MK pro's and con's list:

Meta Knight

+Kirby is hard to gimp (one of MK's specialties)
+Kirby has plenty of Kill options
+MK's range gives Kirby a superior grab game

-Kirby can't gimp MK either
-MK is hard to Combo
-MK has better priority/speed
-Less lag on MK's attacks

Looks pretty even to me... I'm sure I missed something though.

Still waiting for more opinions so we can solidify this matchup. Deg is really pushing 4-6 and Gonzo always argues 5-5.

Also, some more facts on the Pokemon would be nice. Blackbelt has some rankings with some facts to back it up, yet we still have some disagreements.

 

[Deg222]

Maybe we can agree on 5.5/4.5 in MK's favor? Heh.

I do believe MK has a slight advantage, but not by much.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

Maybe we can agree on 5.5/4.5 in MK's favor? Heh.

I do believe MK has a slight advantage, but not by much.

I'll agree to that : )

 

[Blackbelt]

I'll agree to that : )

Seconded...

 

[jiovanni007]

As far as the Pokemon go, Pikachu is the byfar the biggest threat. I would go as far to say that the match is 3-7 Pika's favor

Pros:
+Pika is light so a fresh Fsmash will kill at 90~100%
+Usefulness of copy makes up for a tough starspike
+Doesn't camp that well and projectile is easily canceled out by holding "A"
+Only has average horizontal KO power

Cons:
-Kirby can only stone against dsmash
-Very difficult to gimp
-Light weight makes combos difficult
-Fair and dair have invisible disjointed hitboxes with incredible speed and priority
-has reliable vertical KO moves
-Great recovery
-Fair and dair can also interrupt any aerial assaults

Not sure how many of you guys play Pikachu, but my noobish friend mains him. Even though he is still a self proclaimed noob, I still have lots of trouble with him. The cooldown (or lack thereof) on dsmash and thunder just isn't fair, quick attack makes gimping a nightmare, vertical KOs always make Kirby cry, and the invisible disjointed hitboxes are also a pain to deal with. This match is easily 3-7 in favor of Pikachu.

I guess I'll go ahead and talk about Lucario since he is my second.

Pros
+Average weight class
+Underwhelmingly weak until he reaches 100%
+Among the worst ^B's in the game
+Pretty big target
+Not to difficult to combo with subtle mindgames

Cons
-Crazy range
-Good projectile
-WoP -> Aura sphere gimp
-Lagging hitboxes (Usmash I'm looking at you!!!)
-Powerful if not taken out early
-Has no problem comboing Kirby

Overall i do believe that this match is dead even. Kirby can steal Aura Sphere to give him a more reliable projectile, they can both combo each other, and Lucario's power vs. Kirby's gimping. The only that can set these two apart and maybe give Kirby a slight advantage is the ease that Luke is gimped. Extremespeed is actually quite slow and deals no damage so he's pretty much profit for Kirby. Lucario does get overwhelming power once he reaches a certain %, but that is not likely to happen since Kirby will more than likely gimp all 3 of his stocks.

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

I really don't think Pikachu is as bad of a matchup as you're making it out to be. It's fairly easy to avoid Pikachu's fair and dair if you know where the hitboxes are. If I'm not mistaken, Final Cutter can hit both safely. There's plenty of lag on Down Smash, and while Thunder is a pain, it's still punishable. Pikachu's recovery can be annoying, but if you pay attention and find patterns in how they use Quick Attack, you can start predicting where they're going to end up.

I feel like it's more 50-50.

Meta Knight is 55-45 in Meta Knight's favor.

 

[Deg222]

The way I see it, Pikachu has a slight advantage on Kirby because of range and a projectile, I'd probably say 6:4 in Pika's favor. However, once you copy his ability it's a whole different story. You can spam projectiles and stay floating in the air at the same time. You have no idea how much fun I have doing this because then Pika starts approaching me and by that point I'm starting to play his campy game. Also if they're trying to edge guard you, spam that thunder jolt while you're coming back, he'll take a step back from the edge. When you have his power I'd say the matchup is 6:4 in Kirby's favor.

So in the end I find the match up to be pretty even because you obviously won't always have Pika's power. If you're having trouble with down smash, learn to be a bit defensive with blocking. Don't automatically spam sidestep if he approaches you (although if timed right you can sidestep a down smash), if he's really spamming down smash that much, just block it. If you find yourself too far away to counter the down smash afterwards, then don't, just take a step back. You have to be patient about it. Pika might have pretty good spacing but remember, you have the better air game, take advantage of that.

 

[Demised]

I dunno how you guys think MK and Kirby are even remotely close to 5:5 =p. Kirby and metaknight may have close to the same range but MK's priority over Kirby is overwhelming in almost every situation. Especially from the edge since MK can gimp Kirby with a couple of down airs off the ledge and / or finish it off with a shuttle loop. Plus Kirby CANT Edge guard Metaknight. With Glide and Shuttle loop thats all u need to make Kirby useless when Edge Guarding him since any spike chances are almost always met with a Shuttle loop.

The grab game i understand its just getting the grabs off.

dsmash -> Dodge - > dsmash or tilts

Thats a hard combination of moves to get through and those are definately not his only options

Sorry if my tone sounds more like wtf are you kidding me? This matchup has been the most touchy for me since MK is the character I always lose to in Tourney. t!mmy wont pick Kirby against MK either so i dunno. >_<

EDIT: Sorry i see MK discussion ended but needed my 2 cents. Pika i'd give 6-4 his favor.

 

[Deg222]

Well about the down air stage spikes, you really shouldn't be that low when trying to recover. I know Kirby can't gimp MK, but MK shouldn't be able to gimp Kirby either. You should be flying high up in the air so when he follows you high up, you pretty much know when to air dodge an up B if he attempts to use it. You really shouldn't be that low when coming back to the platform. If I do find myself that low, I just fly really high with back airs before I even attempt to approach the edge again.

Also, if you do find yourself in danger of a down air stage spike, just back away, you know he's going to out prioritize you so why even get close to him. I dunno, it might just be me but I don't find myself dying to MK by getting gimped.

Go here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175334

and check out the Reaper's Playground IV section. There's a few videos of me fighting a decent MK. I haven't watched them in a while but I'm most certain I don't get killed by getting gimped.

 

[Demised]

Well about the down air stage spikes, you really shouldn't be that low when trying to recover. I know Kirby can't gimp MK, but MK shouldn't be able to gimp Kirby either. You should be flying high up in the air so when he follows you high up, you pretty much know when to air dodge an up B if he attempts to use it. You really shouldn't be that low when coming back to the platform. If I do find myself that low, I just fly really high with back airs before I even attempt to approach the edge again.

Also, if you do find yourself in danger of a down air stage spike, just back away, you know he's going to out prioritize you so why even get close to him. I dunno, it might just be me but I don't find myself dying to MK by getting gimped.

Go here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=175334

and check out the Reaper's Playground IV section. There's a few videos of me fighting a decent MK. I haven't watched them in a while but I'm most certain I don't get killed by getting gimped.

I dont mean D air into stage spike. More so constant d-airs to keep me away from the edge. lol. Thats alot of advice im gonna have to sit through but to work i go! Thank you for the imput

 

[Brahma]

Hey guys, I'm a DK main, and I played Kirby as a secondary in Melee. I just started using him again in Brawl, and think he's going to be my backup to DK. As such, I was wondering how he handles two of DK's toughest matchups: DDD and Olimar.

Against Olimar, Kirby seems to do a good job of clearing pikmin off of him, and he can stay off the ground well to make Oli's grab game much less effective. However, Oli stay has dash Usmash to get under Kirby's SH attacks, and UpB can be used to do the same and beat out SH approaches. How does Kirby deal with this.

Against Dedede I don't really know where to start. Suggestions on dealing with him?


Also, so as not to take without giving, some matchup advice on Pika and DK

Against Pika, you can easily stay on the ground and walk forward, canceling out projectiles with Ftilt. I the air, Bair and Fair both work well to cancel. It makes approaching much easier.

If you get hit by Dsmash, rapidly tap up on both the control stick and Cstick to DI out. Also, you can dash in and then stop, let Pika whiff a Dsmash then punish with cutter, hammer, or Fsmash. Just be careful on Fsmash to wait until after the actual attack hitbox is gone or you'll get sucked in. But from what I understand Kirby has small disjoints on his feet so you might be ok.


DK is actually a pretty tough fight for Kirby IMO. DK's Ftilt and Bair outrange all of Kirby's approaches on both the ground and air. You have to be careful with aerials as DK can punish SH aerials with Utilt and Dsmash.

Kirby combos DK well, but DK can KO Kirby at extremely low %. Like 50% low. Dsmash punishes aerials, and can kill Kirby around 90% if fresh. Fsmash outranges just about everything Kirby has and kills around 60%ish. Full Punch kills Kirby around 70%, and has Super armor to blow right through Kirby's attacks, so if you're at 70%+, you have to be very careful about how you attack. Punch can kill around 50% with a 9-wind punch. Usmash kills around 70% too. Uair can kill higher up at 60-70%ish.

DK can also get off the stage and Fair/Bair to outrange Kirby coming back. Kirby can't Dair DK's recovery as it would seem. DK's UpB has a lot of priority and unless you come down right on top of DK he'll usually beat out your Dair. Due to the angle of Kirby's good kill moves, if you don't kill DK, he'll usually be coming back from high up, aking it harder to edgeguard him. Swallowcides work well, since DK has poor vertical recovery, but if the DK is smart, he'll save his second jump, DI out from under the stage, air jump, and UpB back.

 

[Deg222]

Yeah you're pretty right about DK, even though Kirby can combo DK easily, DK has excellent spacing against Kirby.

In my experience it's a pretty even out. DK can kill Kirby quickly while Kirby can rack up damage on DK pretty fast.