KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'm not quite as original as advertised, but I'm literally the only (good) Sheik that can do the Jigglypuff MU AFAIK.
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KirbyKaze's Sheik MU Guide - POSTPONED INDEFINITELY
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Well, I'm also looking forward to ur analysis of the Jiggs MU.
Twix
Smash Cadet
I'm from LI and easily consider KK a pioneer. 
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
I can't wait for this.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Specifically around where I live and go to school.I'm from LI and easily consider KK a pioneer.
Twix
Smash Cadet
Yes yes :3 !Specifically around where I live and go to school.
Smash players, unite!
*Though*, even better; SHEIK Players, UNITE!
Mr Postman
Smash Journeyman
Guides need more videos. I like pictures.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
On the Brawl boards, a lot of their guides have links to really helpful or exemplary Youtube vids. Not that I'm comparing Melee to Brawl, or anything (though I love both games), but it would be really cool if we had that more often around here...
A video guide would be nice I suppose.
Unfortunately at this point, I think the only person with the motivation and the qualifications to create one is KK.
And he already does so much :<
I kinda wanna try it, but then I realize school ***** me.
Unfortunately at this point, I think the only person with the motivation and the qualifications to create one is KK.
And he already does so much :<
I kinda wanna try it, but then I realize school ***** me.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Well, words will have to do.
Alright, Kirbykaze, I know you're gonna put up those posts on how to fight our bad matchups and all that, but do you know if you could just put a quick little summation of tips and advice on how to fight Fox? I'm at wit's end on how to do this...
((
Alright, Kirbykaze, I know you're gonna put up those posts on how to fight our bad matchups and all that, but do you know if you could just put a quick little summation of tips and advice on how to fight Fox? I'm at wit's end on how to do this...
((
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Get him to 24 and then look for chances to f-tilt him when he's lagging or dash attack him during lag. M2K's advice seriously works.
Everything else is just space bair, fair, dash dance grab / dash attack, WD back f-tilt, etc. Beat his moves in any way you can. Punish his lag.
Nair OOS works idk how or whatever but it seriously just does. Mix between nair OOS, holding shield, WD OOS, and wait for high aerials so you can shield grab (if they do it badly), nair OOS, or retreat safely (if they do it right).
Down smash is pretty good vs non-tech if they fall over after being tilted or whatever. Up smash OOS on the wake up attacks. I'm starting to think that SHFFL dair is better then guessing with up smash at like 35 just because you can action out of it quickly but the idea is still in its infancy.
Everything else is just space bair, fair, dash dance grab / dash attack, WD back f-tilt, etc. Beat his moves in any way you can. Punish his lag.
Nair OOS works idk how or whatever but it seriously just does. Mix between nair OOS, holding shield, WD OOS, and wait for high aerials so you can shield grab (if they do it badly), nair OOS, or retreat safely (if they do it right).
Down smash is pretty good vs non-tech if they fall over after being tilted or whatever. Up smash OOS on the wake up attacks. I'm starting to think that SHFFL dair is better then guessing with up smash at like 35 just because you can action out of it quickly but the idea is still in its infancy.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Opening you want to look for: Boost grab him / dash attack him out of the laser and death combo him.
Basics of counter-camping: Charge a full set of needles and throw it as he's gonna land.
Basics of offense vs this: Hungrybox him with your fair & bair.
Basics of counter-camping: Charge a full set of needles and throw it as he's gonna land.
Basics of offense vs this: Hungrybox him with your fair & bair.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
Sup sheiks. I'm gonna start playing this char. Don't tell the ganons.
How do u position yourself for techchasing against spacies? If I pick a side, the tech away is obvious and uncatchable, but if I don't, I get tech in place shined. Should I look to start a dsashdance after a dthrow?
How do u position yourself for techchasing against spacies? If I pick a side, the tech away is obvious and uncatchable, but if I don't, I get tech in place shined. Should I look to start a dsashdance after a dthrow?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Amsah and I just walk or turn around accordingly. Armada and Drephen like to WD. M2K does this WD --> dash positional thing. There's a bunch of methods. Just figure out one you're comfortable with and that usually works.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
ok. next thing, i have an idea of when the popup happens, but sometimes when i try to ftilt a no-tech opponent, they pop out. something similar happens with falcos after too many "ground bounces" or however you'd want to call it. basically, when it comes to hitting opponents off the ground, do you guys tend to look for jab->grabs, dtilts, or something else entirely?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Moves that do less than 7 damage 'pop' the opponent up if you hit them on a non-teched opponent (provided they don't hit downwards and some other rules). Sheik's f-tilt does 7 at max damage, so if it's staled even once then it doesn't legit combo into anything. There's a variety of things you can do in that situation, ranging from jab resets to down smash (and everything in between).
Tbh, f-tilt still isn't really that bad of an option if you know what to do with an airborne opponent who's not in stun, but there are also better (more reliable) options available in most situations.
Tbh, f-tilt still isn't really that bad of an option if you know what to do with an airborne opponent who's not in stun, but there are also better (more reliable) options available in most situations.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Is run off needle-turn-around edgegrab possible?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLWB...xt=C38f9ee2UDOEgsToPDskL_plsXUZNNqMw_PlNoOR-k
with a WD startup i can do it pretty consistently (or could, rather; haven't tried it in months so idk if i can now)
with a WD startup i can do it pretty consistently (or could, rather; haven't tried it in months so idk if i can now)
soap
Smash Hero
that awkward moment when you go back to a youtube video three years later and you have the top comment
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
Noted.
Noob question number 3. Is there a difference between all the edgestalls she can use? There's one where she upbs straight up and goes back to the edge, one where she stays put and pops back onto the edge, and I think I've seen one where she can upb sort of up and away from the stage and then get back. I figure the stay in place one protects the edge the best, right? But they're all properly invincible, albeit not safe if they get to the edge, correct?
Noob question number 3. Is there a difference between all the edgestalls she can use? There's one where she upbs straight up and goes back to the edge, one where she stays put and pops back onto the edge, and I think I've seen one where she can upb sort of up and away from the stage and then get back. I figure the stay in place one protects the edge the best, right? But they're all properly invincible, albeit not safe if they get to the edge, correct?
stelzig
Smash Lord
I think it is most important to do whatever you are actually able to do/feel more comfortable with. I think m2k UpB's away from the edge because he's afraid of getting hit out of his UpB. The one where you think you see people stay put is probably just people pressing down to release the edge instead of pressing back.
Edit: But yes, of course the one with a hitbox closest to the edge is going to be the best.
Edit: But yes, of course the one with a hitbox closest to the edge is going to be the best.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Ahhh, duly noted... >
You're referring to the Shino/Vanish Stall. Basically, going up and going away with the upB do pretty much the same thing. For me, going up is easier. However, if done properly, this stall is 100% invincible. The only way to stop it is to take the ledge from Sheik before she regrabs it. Because of this, against a crafty opponent, I'd say that letting go and regrabbing the ledge is safer at times. Also, while Vanish Stalling, I've noticed that if your opponent attacks your explosion, there's a bit of hitstun (either from you hitting him or from your move clashing with his). This hitstun can actually be enough to mess up your timing and cause you to SD while stalling, so be careful.
I don't see why M2K would be afraid of getting hit if the stall is completely invincible.
stelzig
Smash Lord
^Maybe because m2k doesn't think he can do it perfectly 100% of the time.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Tbh, if Sheik isn't invincible, you can probably still hit her while remaining grounded, even if she's upBing away from the stage. Just my thinking, though...
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
It might just be a stylistic choice...?
stelzig
Smash Lord
That could be possible too. I'm just repeating what i've heard. But Bubba, it isn't exactly rocket science that the further you are from the edge, the closer the opponent has to go to actually get a hit on you... If you go closer to the edge, it will be easier for sheik to hit you from it when she regrabs because she was invincible and your attempt at hitting her thus failed.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Sheik commits herself a ****load by doing a poofstall because of how the stall works. Pulling away or staying close doesn't really make her harder to hit or anything because the entire stall is an abuse of invincibility on the Up+B... meaning you have to start it in a relatively timely manner or you don't get the invincibility you want.
One way or the other, she's still fully invincible.
The only important 'mixup' for the vanish stall in the literal stall sense is the no-explosion poof. And that method sacrifices complete invincibility (you're open for a teensy bit) but in exchange you don't give the recovering character the opportunity to overlap their body with the explosion at an opportune time and launch themselves above the level (thus making it very hard to follow up on them). Somewhat relevant vs Marth & Marios. Not so much vs other characters.
One way or the other, she's still fully invincible.
The only important 'mixup' for the vanish stall in the literal stall sense is the no-explosion poof. And that method sacrifices complete invincibility (you're open for a teensy bit) but in exchange you don't give the recovering character the opportunity to overlap their body with the explosion at an opportune time and launch themselves above the level (thus making it very hard to follow up on them). Somewhat relevant vs Marth & Marios. Not so much vs other characters.
stelzig
Smash Lord
I'm not saying it is particularely useful (and I don't do it myself), just that it is obvious that you are safer from attempts at hitting you (however little it may be, you are safer), should you fail doing it right because you still are further away. Don't see what should be so complicated about this =/
What is this no-explosion poof?
What is this no-explosion poof?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I can see the pull away being relevant for safety purposes if you've deliberately waited so you no longer have invincibility when initiating the poof stall. But after you get it started, I don't see why one would. I think it's a stylistic choice, mostly, because in the situations where I could see the extra distance away from the stage being relevant, I'd probably want to do something else anyway. But that may also be because I'm used to people edgehogging me if I can't make up my mind over what I want to do at the edge.
I personally think it's mostly just one of M2K's little idiosyncrasies with his techniques. He's got a lot of them.
No-explosion poof is just an edgestall where she snaps to the edge immediately (shouldn't have 'poof' in the name, I guess) and doesn't make the up+B explosion. Not fully invincible. You drop off the edge and rather than go above the edge and acquire the invincibility, you just let the up+B grab the edge ASAP. Should probably be renamed to something like "fake poof" or something.
I personally think it's mostly just one of M2K's little idiosyncrasies with his techniques. He's got a lot of them.
No-explosion poof is just an edgestall where she snaps to the edge immediately (shouldn't have 'poof' in the name, I guess) and doesn't make the up+B explosion. Not fully invincible. You drop off the edge and rather than go above the edge and acquire the invincibility, you just let the up+B grab the edge ASAP. Should probably be renamed to something like "fake poof" or something.
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
I think if M2K knows his opponent is gonna try to grab the ledge while shino stalling he just does the drop down > dj because if the opponent grabs the ledge he can at least still air dodge onto the stage
Is that a good option? like u kinda stare at their spacing when they're facing backwards then u try to hit them away before they grab the ledge but mix with shino stalls
i dunno lolololl
Is that a good option? like u kinda stare at their spacing when they're facing backwards then u try to hit them away before they grab the ledge but mix with shino stalls
i dunno lolololl
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
sounds like an interesting subject overall.
next thing i'd like to bring up is sheiks crouch. can she dodge a lot of grabs with it, or is ganon just one of the few unlucky *******s she can just duck under?
next thing i'd like to bring up is sheiks crouch. can she dodge a lot of grabs with it, or is ganon just one of the few unlucky *******s she can just duck under?
Ganon's is much more susceptible to it but it works on more characters.
I'm pretty sure I've crouched marth's and falcon's before. But I think it depends how close they are to you when they grab.
Bl@ckChris
Smash Hero
interesting.
so, this is a more tight game mechanic thing, but when it comes to sheiks dsmash, if you hold down, does she ever stand back up, or will she "wake up" out of the dsmash crouching? i feel like she wakes up out of dtilt crouching, which basically makes constant-crouch dtilt safe on ganons sheild (if he tries to grab, he just gets dtilted...) so i wanted to know if you guys know/think if dsmash has that same property of being constantly-crouchable.
sorry for inventing words, but i'm pretty sure my point is understandable.
so, this is a more tight game mechanic thing, but when it comes to sheiks dsmash, if you hold down, does she ever stand back up, or will she "wake up" out of the dsmash crouching? i feel like she wakes up out of dtilt crouching, which basically makes constant-crouch dtilt safe on ganons sheild (if he tries to grab, he just gets dtilted...) so i wanted to know if you guys know/think if dsmash has that same property of being constantly-crouchable.
sorry for inventing words, but i'm pretty sure my point is understandable.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Fair --> duck is the metagame.
I *think* her dsmash's animation forces her to stand up during the final frames.
If you hold down as you do it, you'll probably go into the crouching animation as soon as the animation ends. But she's I suppose technically standing for a few frames.
soap
Smash Hero
I've ducked under foxes doing running sh nairs over me
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Ducking and/or moving under his aerials (Falco's too) is a pretty good way to avoid getting trapped at the edge.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Idk, but I feel like Sheik can even crouch her own standing grab... (O_o)