Kirby the Copy Cat - Copy Ability Discussion (OLD)

[Salad Bowl]

Not sure if you knew this already, but Kirby is actually a guy. Wii Fit's and Peach's abilities are great, although I like them for other reasons. Wii Fit's Sun Salutation is nice for combos, edgeguarding, killing (as you stated), and pressuring. Peach's counter is eh. It's good, yes, but it doesn't really hit that hard unless you counter an incredibly strong move.

Actually peachs counter has set damage and kb so it's always strong

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Actually peachs counter has set damage and kb so it's always strong

It does? Maybe I just have to use it more. Every time I've used it, it barely does any damage and sends Peach like, five feet away from me.

 

[Salad Bowl]

It does? Maybe I just have to use it more. Every time I've used it, it barely does any damage and sends Peach like, five feet away from me.

Yeah but at around 90% it'll send them flying. It's a good counter, even a jab at 100% could K.O. Them

 

[The 0ne]

Peach's counter sucks. First of all, the active frames are very slim in melee and brawl, although the Toad does stay out a bit longer in Smash 4. Second, while the whole thing deals reasonable damage (18%) all the hits consistently don't connect. Three, the counter is well, locked, you could say. The damage and KB for countering a jab is the same for countering a reverse aerial Warlock Punch. ASSUMING, OF COURSE THAT ALL THE FRICKIN' HITS CONNECT

 

[The 0ne]

And to top it off, Ness and G&W can absorb it.

 

[The 0ne]

In fact, in older games, Peach couldn't even counter when she wasn't facing her opponent!

 

[Masonomace]

Out of all the counters, having Peach's Toad Counter can be helpful, but it's definitely not the best although it's one of the few if not the only Neutral-B that's a counter / parry attack. Only the greatest of Peach's attacks will make Toad formidable, so other than that, maybe I'd prefer Jumping Inhale over a Toad counter. I like having a scaling Counter with a damage multiplier, however I don't think Toad has a damage multiplier.

 

[Salad Bowl]

@ The 0ne its still strong and can kill at 100%
Also G&W and ness would probably still be in ending lag before the spores the come out

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I've had this in mind ever since creating this thread, so I suppose it's time to bring it up. Instead of how this thread is going currently, how would you guys feel about having a schedule of weekly characters, similar to the MU thread? Every week, we'd have characters up for discussing their copy abilities (at the moment, I'd say three or four characters every week would be good). This would make it A LOT easier to get information on Copy Abilities.

The reason this idea was not put into place when this thread was initially created is for several reasons. The main (and biggest) reason is that, as the games have just come out, general information, whether scrambled or not, would help get a better idea of Copy Abilities overall.

ALSO I WROTE LIKE TWENTY PARAGRAPHS ON DIFFERENT COPY ABILITIES AND SAVED IT AS A DRAFT AND NOW IT'S DELETED WTF SMASHBOARDS

 

[fromundaman]

The lesson to take away is to have a storage word doc anytime you write something long.

 

[Zethoro]

Just a heads up, it's not a peach; it's an orange. And Inhale IS a command grab. Try it!

PS. Doesn't it just feel sooo awesome when you win with your opponents's neutral special? Especially when you know it better than they do. Like Samus's Charge Shot and other powerful projectiles are so great when you've killed them with it but they haven't done so to you.

It's true, there's no feeling quite like it.
Unfortunately, outside of very good projectiles (Samus, Lucario, and the like(Except Robin because you only get one book per swallow which is absurd)) and just amazing abilities (Shulk, Marth/Lucina), copying the ability of someone isn't worth it. I mean, how often are you going to use a non-stoic, shorter range Warlock Punch? How about LM's Straight Lunge? In addition, with how difficult it is to actually pull off a Swallow, it's not worth it except for a few MUs, or for some interesting team play.

 

[|RK|]

It's true, there's no feeling quite like it.
Unfortunately, outside of very good projectiles (Samus, Lucario, and the like(Except Robin because you only get one book per swallow which is absurd)) and just amazing abilities (Shulk, Marth/Lucina), copying the ability of someone isn't worth it. I mean, how often are you going to use a non-stoic, shorter range Warlock Punch? How about LM's Straight Lunge? In addition, with how difficult it is to actually pull off a Swallow, it's not worth it except for a few MUs, or for some interesting team play.

You could trip Ganon and then do a Warlock Punch, especially by the ledge. IIRC, a while back Ganons were talking about how Warlock Punch was guaranteed if the opponent does a getup attack after Flame Choke. I don't know if that panned out, but we have our dtilt and we get the super armor.

 

[fromundaman]

You could trip Ganon and then do a Warlock Punch, especially by the ledge. IIRC, a while back Ganons were talking about how Warlock Punch was guaranteed if the opponent does a getup attack after Flame Choke. I don't know if that panned out, but we have our dtilt and we get the super armor.

It's only guaranteed on the slowest of getup attacks IF they do a getup attack after we start the punch (You basically have to armor through the hit then have it go off to punish).
Basically it's a wifi tactic.


That said, if Ganon sees you do a WP, he can armor it with his own WP to punish you.

 

[Altair357]

It's only guaranteed on the slowest of getup attacks IF they do a getup attack after we start the punch (You basically have to armor through the hit then have it go off to punish).
Basically it's a wifi tactic.


That said, if Ganon sees you do a WP, he can armor it with his own WP to punish you.

I mean, you can do the same thing if he uses a Warlock Punch.

 

[fromundaman]

I mean, you can do the same thing if he uses a Warlock Punch.

Does Kirby get armored properties on his WP too? If so, then yes.

That said WP is not a very good move regardless for either character.

 

[Asdioh]

Yeah we get the superarmor, RK Joker's post above you even says so :D
Superarmor on demand is so nice, but I can't think of a situation where you could use it. If you read a Fsmash and tank it maybe, but Kirby really doesn't like taking more damage than he needs to.

 

[Zethoro]

You could trip Ganon and then do a Warlock Punch, especially by the ledge. IIRC, a while back Ganons were talking about how Warlock Punch was guaranteed if the opponent does a getup attack after Flame Choke. I don't know if that panned out, but we have our dtilt and we get the super armor.

Wait, we DO get the armor on WP?
That's new. Okay, that's not quite as bad as I thought, though it's still not worth it; WP super armor seems really inconsistent, and if customs are allowed we can get said armor in Giant Hammer if you really want a pseudo-WP. Given how poor Inhale is at catching people in it, it's not really worth it.
But really, what abilities am I missing? The only ones that seem to be worth it are Lucario, Samus, Marth, Lucina, Shulk, Peach, (Dark)Pit, WFT, ROB, Villager, and Mega Man andcaptainfalcon. Sure, that's quite a few, but even then you have to weigh your options and it takes a pretty hard read to even get the swallow.
Autoreticlesomuchyes

 

[fromundaman]

Pacman's ability is godlike. Link, Mario and Picacho have good ones to take as well since you use them way better than they do.

 

[|RK|]

Wait, we DO get the armor on WP?
That's new. Okay, that's not quite as bad as I thought, though it's still not worth it; WP super armor seems really inconsistent, and if customs are allowed we can get said armor in Giant Hammer if you really want a pseudo-WP. Given how poor Inhale is at catching people in it, it's not really worth it.
But really, what abilities am I missing? The only ones that seem to be worth it are Lucario, Samus, Marth, Lucina, Shulk, Peach, (Dark)Pit, WFT, ROB, Villager, and Mega Man andcaptainfalcon. Sure, that's quite a few, but even then you have to weigh your options and it takes a pretty hard read to even get the swallow.
Autoreticlesomuchyes

I should note that just like with Ganon, a Reverse Warlock Punch doesn't have superarmor.

 

[misterOWAIN33]

I kinda like and .

 

[Asdioh]

But really, what abilities am I missing? The only ones that seem to be worth it are Lucario, Samus, Marth, Lucina, Shulk, Peach, (Dark)Pit, WFT, ROB, Villager, and Mega Man andcaptainfalcon. Sure, that's quite a few, but even then you have to weigh your options and it takes a pretty hard read to even get the swallow.
Autoreticlesomuchyes

I made a post a couple pages ago http://smashboards.com/threads/kirb...bility-discussion.371261/page-2#post-18123486 and I mostly stick by it. Only note I can think of that I didn't say in there is that Bowser Jr's Cannonball goes straight through and destroys mechakoopas.
And I say again that it's usually worth Copying if you manage to land Inhale, since Inhale's a bad move, and you can always get it back by downtaunting away your power.

God Inhale is SO BAD

 

[Zethoro]

I should note that just like with Ganon, a Reverse Warlock Punch doesn't have superarmor.

Wait, really!?
...THAT EXPLAINS SO MUCH

 

[The 0ne]

@ Asdioh I like the point you bring up. Even if the copy ability isn't as good as the source character's neutral-b, it's still probably better than Inhale.

 

[Chef Kirby]

Is little Mac's useless. It honestly feels like it

 

[Unknownkid]

Yes, it is. You are better with Inhale verse Little Mac.

 

[The 0ne]

Fair enough, but he can't crouch under ours. And because of the armor, it rips right through his up-b recovery. It also does to Ike's.

 

[FlipFlopMist]

Little Mac's B special is pretty useless till he gets his KO punch available. Sadly we don't get a power meter or KO punch, and the only real benefit to it otherwise is as a way to punish projectiles... Even then it's bad to use against any halfway intelligent foe as they can just punish you in so many ways: and considering Little Mac doesn't have projectiles the main use of this move is lost on us. ;v;

HOWEVER!

If you ARE going to use his ability then know this: Fully charging the punch is never a good idea as the end lag is awful, if you charge up till the aura/flames turn red and then release you'll do about the same DMG, go the same distance... And you won't have that crippling end lag.

The only real upside for copying him is that rocking hair. It doesn't look good on Little Mac... But Kirby rocks it like a true champ. B)

 

[The 0ne]

I thought the same thing at first as well. "It's useless," I thought. But then I discovered that it's great for baits and punishes. It can break shields pretty well too, and then you get a free second one, that kills fully charged at about 65% center stage.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

It does? Maybe I just have to use it more. Every time I've used it, it barely does any damage and sends Peach like, five feet away from me.

It can't have set knock back and the damage it deals is pretty good, (almost 20%) and it does KO below 150% because I have done it before, though yea the move is situational, but good

 

[SalsaSavant]

D3 main here. Looking to ask- in a D3 vs Kirby situation, do you consider D3's ability a straight upgrade? Nothing else to copy, and it has a larger range and does more damage when Spit (10% as opposed to Kirby's 6%. However, Swallowing does 10% so...)

However, I believe Kirby's Inhale has set knockback, while D3's depends on the opponents momentum at the time of use, which makes it POTENTIALLY more useful but more unreliable.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Actually, you're wrong about Kirby's Inhale having set knockback. Go into Training Mode, set your damage as 999%, then eat a bunch of Maxim Tomatoes as Kirby to get yourself back to 0%. Eat the opponent and spit them out... and they're gone into the interdimensional void.

However, I believe Dedede has less end-lag on his Inhale. I usually like to take it when playing the MU, but Jumping Inhale is generally better than default Dedede Inhale. Taste Test is the best thing in the world, though.

 

[Unknownkid]

You can also take Dedede's power if you want another option to deal with projectiles like Gordos (since you can eat them). Otherwise it is -
Jumping Inhale > Dedede's Inhale > Kirby's Inhale.

What's great about Taste Test?

 

[Phan7om]

What would you guys consider the top 10 abilities to be in this game, I havent really put much time into it. I know Shulk at #1, then who else? Pac? Villager? Olimar? Robin? idk.

 

[Unknownkid]

What would you guys consider the top 10 abilities to be in this game, I havent really put much time into it. I know Shulk at #1, then who else? Pac? Villager? Olimar? Robin? idk.

You mean overall or against our opponents? I guess...
Shulk, Villager, Pacman, WFT, Rosalina, ZSS, Olimar, Robin, Marth/Lucina (in any order).

I don't know about a 10th one. I think Pikachu's, Mario and Luigi are good powers. I chose WFT over Samus because of its versatility (WFT's power can be charged/cancelled in the air). Otherwise Samus is better for it sheer power over Lucario and WFT.
A honorable mentions include Greninja, Zelda, Pit, Yoshi, Dedede and Wario

 

[The 0ne]

You think Chomp deserves an honorable mention? It's unarguably the best command grab in the game. And with Kirby's aerial momentum being even better than Wario's, I think it deserves #1, since against Wario it's godlike. In doubles, maybe lower, because it doesn't help as much as others, but in 1v1s, Chomp is the absolute best.

 

[Unknownkid]

Kirby's aerial momentum is better than Wario's? What?
Anyways, perhaps you are right. Chomp should be in the list. I don't think it is #1 but it is up there.

 

[The 0ne]

Ok, well the momentum thing was just a spur of the moment thing. It's not better than Wario's, but I what I meant to say was that against Wario, I think Kirby can make better use of Chomp against him than Wario can on Kirby, in general.

 

[Altair357]

Olimar's ability is incredible. Seriously, if you're fighting Olimar without the ability, you're not fighting him the right way. The matchup is under our control now.

I would say #1 is a tie between Shulk and Olimar. Shulk's ability, of course, needs no explanation. Wario's ability is definitely good, but I can't see it being better than those two.

You think Chomp deserves an honorable mention? It's unarguably the best command grab in the game. And with Kirby's aerial momentum being even better than Wario's, I think it deserves #1, since against Wario it's godlike. In doubles, maybe lower, because it doesn't help as much as others, but in 1v1s, Chomp is the absolute best.

I doubt it's the best command grab in the game. It's essentially a better Inhale, whereas other characters have things like Flame Choke and Monkey Flip and we have Jumping Inhale.

 

[Phan7om]

You mean overall or against our opponents? I guess...
Shulk, Villager, Pacman, WFT, Rosalina, ZSS, Olimar, Robin, Marth/Lucina (in any order).

I don't know about a 10th one. I think Pikachu's, Mario and Luigi are good powers. I chose WFT over Samus because of its versatility (WFT's power can be charged/cancelled in the air). Otherwise Samus is better for it sheer power over Lucario and WFT.
A honorable mentions include Greninja, Zelda, Pit, Yoshi, Dedede and Wario

Just curious, why Marth/Lucina? I mean, maybe its kinda ok because of its knockback and everything, but you're probably not gonna be breaking any shields with it since it screams "you better not shield". I guess that could be a good thing as well since they wont shield but idk. Inform me.

 

[Unknownkid]

Just curious, why Marth/Lucina? I mean, maybe its kinda ok because of its knockback and everything, but you're probably not gonna be breaking any shields with it since it screams "you better not shield". I guess that could be a good thing as well since they wont shield but idk. Inform me.

It's pretty much what you said. We now have 3 specials to threaten/shattter shields with (Stone, Hammer Flip, and Shield Breaker). You condition your opponent to shield often and when they least expect it - *POP*! But I see your point. I might have brain farted and felt like if you break someone shield, Full Hammer Flip will kill them. TheOne is right though - Wario's Chomp should in the list. I will drop Shieldbreaker for Chomp as it is more useful than Inhale in 1v1.

What is your opinions on everything else? How about your list?