Kirby & The Amazing Guide

[t!MmY]

Updates will involve scrutiny to smaller details, which is why they're taking more time between each one. The good news is, the next update will have something awesome.

 

[Zerosyko]

Yay!

Sounds great Timmy :D

 

[ungulateman]

A flashy but ineffective trick:

Stone in the air
cancel the Stone
then Final Cutter.

Useless, but sorta cute :D

 

[cheap_josh]

I cancelled a B over today (the hammer). I'm not familiar with Kirby boards but have yall discovered that yet? The animation started but then it cancelled after I pressed some button combo or somethin.
I was on FD. I kinda ran to the edge but didn't fall off or hang. It was weird.

I did it twice but I'm unsure how I did it.

 

[t!MmY]

The Hammer, when used on the ground, cancels if you go airborne. You still get phantom lag, though. :\

 

[fromundaman]

Haven't read this whole thread, so I don't know if this was posted, but I saw that if you do a Dair when your opponent is on the ground yet don't let that last hit connect (AKA don't touch the ground while the move is still going, since that will push them away) you can follow straight into a grab. Don't know if that's been done or not, or if it's really useful at all (considering I can only get it to work by accident), but thought I might as well mention it. Plus it looks cool to go straight from a Dair to a Dthrow.

 

[Arcanejazz]

I dont think this is a fool proof tactic, but I might just not be good enough to do it repeatedly, lol. But, I have pulled this off against friends a number of times. It does look really badass though :] Dairs off the stage close to the bottom edge of the screen look awesome too >__>

 

[PrinceJR]

Cause of this guide i like Kirby better then i dit, his AERIAL IS GAME!

 

[Arcanejazz]

Cause of this guide i like Kirby better then i dit, his AERIAL IS GAME!

Kirby is BOSS in the air :D bair, fair, dair, hammer, and if youre clever, pulling off a stone kill will piss people of so much, lmao. it makes em feel like they got killed by a total scrub xD

or maybe they did...

 

[fromundaman]

I dont think this is a fool proof tactic, but I might just not be good enough to do it repeatedly, lol. But, I have pulled this off against friends a number of times. It does look really badass though :] QUOTE]


Yeah, I wasn't either, though I was messing with it yesterday and found that if you move away from your opponent when the first hit connects, you can hit with all hits except the last one (it still hits the ground and does the shockwave, but the enemy is just barely out of it's range) and follow up with a grab (Apparently the grab range is bigger than the shockwave range.). This seems to work well, as they seem to still be stunned by the time I get the grab off. That or the comp kept trying to attack and the grab was faster, not really sure.
Problem is, I tend to have trouble getting the distance just right, but maybe that's because I haven't worked on it enough. This does allow me to do a Dthrow to utilt to Dair to another throw though against big characters (and med characters, but they can get out of it, so probably won't be effective against human players).

 

[KING BRISKET]

This has to be the most well put together guide I have ever seen. T!MMY 4 PRESIDENT!!! (1st concern, what are you going to do about the rising gas prices in the smash nation)

 

[ungulateman]

Random: Ever Kirby PAWNCHed two people, and KO'd both? I have a video, but I don't have a friend code yet.

Also, 0-66% non-Kirbyciding kill on Ganon. Swallow, then Warlock Punch. On the same video as my Kirby PAWNCH.

 

[fromundaman]

Random: Ever Kirby PAWNCHed two people, and KO'd both? I have a video, but I don't have a friend code yet.

Also, 0-66% non-Kirbyciding kill on Ganon. Swallow, then Warlock Punch. On the same video as my Kirby PAWNCH.

Were these against human players? I'm having trouble believing anyone would actually get hit by that...

 

[streetracr77]

this is a great guide for kirby
This will help me a lot and hopefully improve my kirby gameplay

 

[Smash_Typhoon]

Nice guide T!mmy.

Great Discription on the diffrent attack absorbs.

 

[A1lion835]

Nice guide. Just like your last one. Any chance I could get your friend code?

Edit: My god that was stupid, you show your code. Could you register me?

 

[ungulateman]

No, they were on Lv 3 AI. XD My suckitude.......IT'S OVER 9000!

 

[t!MmY]

New update. -^_^-
Version 2.0 is finally here with all sorts of things fixed, added, and rearranged. Here's a small list of what you will find:

New intro.
New Table of Contents.
Overview of Kirby
Moveset Data with Frame Data
Descriptions added to Kirby's Hat section.

Pictures uploaded and added:
Up-Tilt (Moveset Section)
D-smash (Moveset Section, new pic replaced the old one for no reason at all)
Over 99% Ledge Roll (Moveset Section)
Mr. Game & Watch (Hat)
Jigglypuff (Hat)
Olimar (Hat)
Toon Link (Hat)
Wolf (Hat)
Zero Suit Samus (Hat)

 

[Sino]

nice new guide, but i miss the priority of the moves. Can i look it up somewhere?

 

[DADdedede]

sweet guide, i like the hat section

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Cool! Frame rate data!

I will have to go over the guide tomorrow.

Thanks, T1mmy.

 

[kenja0]

Nice Update. This frame data will surely help me understand my Kirby better.

Is there any way you can put frame data for all of the Ledge stuff?
Ledge Attack Over/Under 100%, Ledge Jump, Ledge Recover, Ledge Dodge Over/Under 100% and when opponents are allowed to grab the edge after all of the above. Ledge Options are my worst...

Thank You!

 

[Tomato Kirby]

Nice Update. This frame data will surely help me understand my Kirby better.

Is there any way you can put frame data for all of the Ledge stuff?
Ledge Attack Over/Under 100%, Ledge Jump, Ledge Recover, Ledge Dodge Over/Under 100% and when opponents are allowed to grab the edge after all of the above. Ledge Options are my worst...

Thank You!

From that list, I think T1mmy might bother with the last one, if that. If Kirby ever did anything else on that list to recover, the opponent will just knock Kirby off the stage again (the return is too predictable), so finding frame rate data is pointless. Direct ledge options are horrendous for recovery. Kirby should just play with aerials at the ledge to try and make room on the stage.

As edge-guarding, only ledge-roll is relevant because it provides more frames than jumping for controlling the ledge.

The last one is REALLY situational (as in, I cannot think of a need at all), because of Kirby edge-hogging with hugging, b/d-air edge-guard, or rolling back onto the stage (roll start-up still counts as Kirby controlling the ledge, which I guess about 10-20 more frames when Kirby is under 100%). Hugging and rolling back onto the stage should give Kirby more than enough frames of invincibility and ledge control to successfully edge-guard the opponent. If Kirby needs more frames, serious work on edge-guarding is in order or he should explore his other options.

 

[kenja0]

But it wouldn't be bad to know the other options- I never use them. I just do the drop then aerial/swallow/float around the stage. But when those options are the only options at your disposal, it leads your opponent into using the 1 great counter for them all: Spike.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

But it wouldn't be bad to know the other options- I never use them. I just do the drop then aerial/swallow/float around the stage. But when those options are the only options at your disposal, it leads your opponent into using the 1 great counter for them all: Spike.

If you never use them (or rarely), why ask for frame rate data that is even more rarely needed? Direct ledge options are still too predictable. The only use I could think of is for edge-guarding.

Spikes: What happened to air-dodging?

 

[kenja0]

It's just one of those things that you pull off the edge and you see your opponent already in mid-process of using a Spike. It's a Diddy Kong thing and he knows how to use all 3 of the Spikes, if it's not one, it's the one you don't expect. If you dodge one, prepare for a follow-up second one. My opponent already has better prediction and options than me on the edge because of that. The safest recoveries are the ones that no one uses and it's much safer to be spiked into the stage than off the stage. But if I had the frame data, I could use it to completely dodge the spikes, but it's the timing.

 

[Dual Kirby]

great guide was a big help for me

 

[Tomato Kirby]

^Yes, guides tend to have the helping effect. Your entrance is well-received like a surprise birthday party!

It's just one of those things that you pull off the edge and you see your opponent already in mid-process of using a Spike. It's a Diddy Kong thing and he knows how to use all 3 of the Spikes, if it's not one, it's the one you don't expect. If you dodge one, prepare for a follow-up second one. My opponent already has better prediction and options than me on the edge because of that. The safest recoveries are the ones that no one uses and it's much safer to be spiked into the stage than off the stage. But if I had the frame data, I could use it to completely dodge the spikes, but it's the timing.

You pulled off the ledge and THEN you need ledge frame data? What? How and exactly when are you "pulling" away from the ledge? Are you talking about Kirby with no invincibility frames, dangling on the ledge while Diddy is going for the spike ?

I need to know exactly what the situation is, what both characters are doing; Kirby’s reply will vary, although ledge frame rate data is not required.


Of course, I admit Kirby's options from the ledge goes are lacking. Some characters like Marth are NOT going to let Kirby (or most other characters) return to the stage from the ledge.

If I really want frame rate data for the ledge, I want the number of invincibility frames after grabbing the ledge and the number of lag frames after grabbing the ledge.


Of course, there is nothing wrong with getting frame rate data; I just think it unnecessary when time is better spent comparing Kirby's and other characters' frame rate data to determine the optimal choices. We need more than just data; we need an interpretation for it.

 

[kenja0]

I'm hugging the ledge and Diddy kong is on the ground above.

1. My usual option is to push back. Immediately releasing from the edge, Diddy Kong short hops and Dair, spike, dead. Depending on if he mis-times it, I can air-dodge soon enough to evade, but it's only about half. And even if I do air-dodge, if he positions himself correctly (which he usually does), follow up with fair, bair, or a sideB to spike.
2. My second option is to push down. Diddy Kong runs off the edge above me, UpB, spike, dead. If I pull back after dropping down, he pursues and dairs instead.
3. My third option is to jump the edge. He jumps and dair, spike. If I'm lucky, I hit the stage.
4. My fourth option, drop and UpB. He sees it coming and dairs me to death.
5. My fifth option is to get back up to the edge normally. He jumps and dairs me into the ground, then follows up with more Diddy comboness.

This Diddy Kong player is amazing with timing spikes and positioning them. He mains Yoshi and can pull off the spike with him very well. It's only amplified even more with Diddy Kong since he has "3" spikes. He knows when it counts as well- I can't usually approach from below since his UpB will out prioritize it anyway. There's even been a few matches where he uses it when we're both far off the stage, lots of surprises there. I'm trying to find a way to avoid them all off stage because being on the ledge with Kirby is horrible against a Diddy Kong.

I do happen to win a majority of the matches though because I can ledgeguard Diddy Kong with dairs as well. That's where most of each others' kills come from. But my main goal is to minimize the damage and deaths done.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

HI TIMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I might pick up Kirby mate. He's pretty fun to play as. I don't know...my main is still too much fun. Indecision...we shall see. He could just be a secondary. Again, we shall see.

 

[t!MmY]

He's pretty fun to play as.

I agree.

I might do frame data for ledge stuff even if it isn't 'useful'. It's more like it's a lot of time to do it, especially with my laptop dead.

 

[Asdioh]

I'm hugging the ledge and Diddy kong is on the ground above.

1. My usual option is to push back. Immediately releasing from the edge, Diddy Kong short hops and Dair, spike, dead. Depending on if he mis-times it, I can air-dodge soon enough to evade, but it's only about half. And even if I do air-dodge, if he positions himself correctly (which he usually does), follow up with fair, bair, or a sideB to spike.
2. My second option is to push down. Diddy Kong runs off the edge above me, UpB, spike, dead. If I pull back after dropping down, he pursues and dairs instead.
3. My third option is to jump the edge. He jumps and dair, spike. If I'm lucky, I hit the stage.
4. My fourth option, drop and UpB. He sees it coming and dairs me to death.
5. My fifth option is to get back up to the edge normally. He jumps and dairs me into the ground, then follows up with more Diddy comboness.

This Diddy Kong player is amazing with timing spikes and positioning them. He mains Yoshi and can pull off the spike with him very well. It's only amplified even more with Diddy Kong since he has "3" spikes. He knows when it counts as well- I can't usually approach from below since his UpB will out prioritize it anyway. There's even been a few matches where he uses it when we're both far off the stage, lots of surprises there. I'm trying to find a way to avoid them all off stage because being on the ledge with Kirby is horrible against a Diddy Kong.

I do happen to win a majority of the matches though because I can ledgeguard Diddy Kong with dairs as well. That's where most of each others' kills come from. But my main goal is to minimize the damage and deaths done.

That sounds like a problem, but I'm sure you can find a way around it. Kirby has 5 jumps; if you press down from the ledge and fastfall, surely the Diddy Kong can't reach you THAT quickly to spike? You use your multiple jumps and airdodges, or attacks, to get back up. I find it hard to believe that anyone could be THAT good at edgeguarding you when you're on the ledge.

Just remember to mix things up. You can press shield to roll onstage (preferably while under 100%) if it looks like he's very close to the edge and preparing to spike. If he's not right next to the edge, you can press back or down, and fastfall if necessary, and airdodge.

Ledge drop (down) -> Final Cutter is something I like to do, but I find that it doesn't work against some opponents/characters. You said this Diddy counters that, so I guess that's not a good idea. But I'm sure you can find some way around it @_@

And I personally don't find how frame data helps anyone...I mean, it's nice to know for some attacks, but in the middle of a fight you aren't going to have time to think "oh he's using X move! That has Y frames, I can beat it with (insert move here) because the hitbox comes out on frame Z!"

 

[Kirby_Is_Da_Man]

any kirby players want 2 try the guide on me, lol. I'm a gud kirby player myself.

 

[lucy!JOE!]

can you add something that has to do with kirbys defensive side??
or do you already have a part like that??

 

[A1lion835]

I think it's time for an update, t!mmy... as you can see, this thread is dying.

 

[DFat2]

I think it's time for an update, t!mmy... as you can see, this thread is dying.

...

I agree.

I might do frame data for ledge stuff even if it isn't 'useful'. It's more like it's a lot of time to do it, especially with my laptop dead.

It's gonna be hard to make an update, but I think it's coming soon. ( I hope at least)

I don't understand why this thread needs to be active, since it's already stickied.

 

[freetyme]

Hey, just read update #2. I haven't been on smashboards lately but this should really help me.

The perpetual activity and wealth of information on Smashboards continues to impress me.
Thanks for remaining so vigilant in information-gathering it really helps keep the game fresh for me!

If I, be some cosmic joke, discover something I'll be sure to post it here to return the favor!

 

[fromundaman]

I'm hugging the ledge and Diddy kong is on the ground above.

1. My usual option is to push back. Immediately releasing from the edge, Diddy Kong short hops and Dair, spike, dead. Depending on if he mis-times it, I can air-dodge soon enough to evade, but it's only about half. And even if I do air-dodge, if he positions himself correctly (which he usually does), follow up with fair, bair, or a sideB to spike.
2. My second option is to push down. Diddy Kong runs off the edge above me, UpB, spike, dead. If I pull back after dropping down, he pursues and dairs instead.
3. My third option is to jump the edge. He jumps and dair, spike. If I'm lucky, I hit the stage.
4. My fourth option, drop and UpB. He sees it coming and dairs me to death.
5. My fifth option is to get back up to the edge normally. He jumps and dairs me into the ground, then follows up with more Diddy comboness.

This Diddy Kong player is amazing with timing spikes and positioning them. He mains Yoshi and can pull off the spike with him very well. It's only amplified even more with Diddy Kong since he has "3" spikes. He knows when it counts as well- I can't usually approach from below since his UpB will out prioritize it anyway. There's even been a few matches where he uses it when we're both far off the stage, lots of surprises there. I'm trying to find a way to avoid them all off stage because being on the ledge with Kirby is horrible against a Diddy Kong.

I do happen to win a majority of the matches though because I can ledgeguard Diddy Kong with dairs as well. That's where most of each others' kills come from. But my main goal is to minimize the damage and deaths done.

Kenja, you should be able to get away from Diddy at the ledge without this much hassle. If you know he's going to Dair you, then jump back, and as he jumps out to do it (arms in the air), jump again and Air dodge. You'll go right through him and find yourself in a position to spike him.

If you can't get the timing for this down, then you could simply try to fly under the stage and to the other side, or follow Asidoh's suggestion.

Also, you should be able to ledge cancel FC a Diddy. Unless he's already in the air or on a platform that's higher than you, or sitting at the ledge (which would allow him to just spike you during the startup frames.), in which case you could just drop and Uair him through the stage, then Diddy can't jump high and far enough to position himself to spike you out of FC (at least not to my knowledge).

Finally, if you know your friend UpB's when you approach from below, try to mindgame him into using it (like approach from below and airdodge when you would have attacked so that his UpB misses) so that you can punish his landing.

 

[fox219]

your weight list is wrong

 

[DemonFart]

good guide!