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Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>

saviorslegacy

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Has anyone done Kirbies hit bubble's yet?
I really want to see that back air of his. :lick:

:EDIT:
Does Kirby have any AT's?
 

Kewkky

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Has anyone done Kirbies hit bubble's yet?
I really want to see that back air of his. :lick:

:EDIT:
Does Kirby have any AT's?
MK26 is having some technical difficulties uploading the hitbubble videos, and we're all eagerly waiting for it. :D

AT's? Well, we have the concept of one and have accidentally done it at times, but fail to do it consistently. Ledge-cancelled UpB... Other non-ATbut advanced moves include kirbicide>footstool>dair>footstool combos, which are inescapable by people we have guaranteed footstools out of kirbicides offstage at any %s, giving us easily-made 0%-death combos on them. :D
 

ThreeSided

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MK26 is having some technical difficulties uploading the hitbubble videos, and we're all eagerly waiting for it. :D

AT's? Well, we have the concept of one and have accidentally done it at times, but fail to do it consistently. Ledge-cancelled UpB... Other non-ATbut advanced moves include kirbicide>footstool>dair>footstool combos, which are inescapable by people we have guaranteed footstools out of kirbicides offstage at any %s, giving us easily-made 0%-death combos on them. :D
Don't forget ninja spikes. =P

That counts as an AT, right?
 

saviorslegacy

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Wow, Kirby seems to be like bare bones when it comes to AT's. lol
Of course, I main Sheik so I'm used to having a bunch of little hand things to perform and master.
Chain Lock
Reverse Chain Lock
Chain Jack
Needle Glide
Vanish Glide
DACUS
auto canceled Fair
instant ledge hop
auto canceled Needle's
Vanish Cancel
Needle wavebounce
f-tilt lock
lol, Kirby is like a breather! xD

Anyways... how good is the Gonzo combo?
Also, does Kirby have any good cross ups?
 

Kewkky

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f-tilt lock
Kirby's utilt lock can be contrasted to Sheik's ftilt lock. We **** big, heavy and/or fastfalling characters weally well with this, and the more it stales, the better we combo with it... AND it ends in a bair, our favorite aerial! :bee:

Anyways... how good is the Gonzo combo?
It's got two variations:
*fthrow>uair>fthrow>uair = The bolded areas are the parts we HAVE to do, and the italized parts mean that we can change one of those according to the situation (rising fairs if they're planning on jumping, where we can string them in the air afterwards... Or falling fairs, in case the uair might not reach them or knock them back too far)... This variation of the combo os notorious for being able to be footstooled out of right before the 2nd grab, so we usually follow up with the 2nd variation (although it is still great damage for those characters who have a very hard time getting that footstool off).

*fthrow>uair>reverse utilt>bair = The italized area means that you can repeat it as many times as possible (preferably un-buffered, wait for the opponent to fall as much as he can before his hitstun goes away, this way you can get in more utilts than with buffered approaches), until the opponent DIs too far for another utilt (lots of damage, it's great!). This is the better version of the gonzo combo, because it's harder for the opponent to footstool a utilt, instead of a grab. It can also lead to instant edgeguards if executed near the ledges, and everyone knows Kirby is a nightmare when edgeguarding.


So, basically, it's our most known "damage racker", getting in some easy 0% > +-40% and setting up for juggles afterwards. Some characters are much more vulnerable than others (Captain Falcon and Fox eat 3 fthrows instead of the normal 2 if they don't know how to get out of it which is hard for them due to them being fastfallers, as well as eating a large amount of unbuffered utilts), some have traits that prevent them from being combo'd like other characters do (Sheik completely evades the uair follow-up due to her skinny hurtbox, and Snake can just take out a grenade so we have to predict his responses in order to follow-up), and some are only vulnerable to one type of variation (Luigi can nair out of the fthrow combos, but if you dthrow him instead of fthrow, you can utilt chain him and end with a bair, like the second combo variation).

Also, does Kirby have any good cross ups?
Fair>bair is an OK cross-up due to fair having very small ending lag after the 3rd hitbox, so if the opponent shields the whole rising fair while we cross over them, we can fastfall and bair them if they drop their shields and land safely; the knockback of our bair is strong enough to have to make opponents have to close the new distance between us before doing something, and that's extra frames to their follow-ups, which we like them to have.

Usually we just do rising and falling bairs, and mix 'em up. We cross over them if we expect them to grab (where they miss miserably), and we don't if we expect an anti-air counterattack.
 

fromundaman

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Chain Lock
Reverse Chain Lock
Chain Jack
Needle Glide
Vanish Glide
DACUS
auto canceled Fair
instant ledge hop
auto canceled Needle's
Vanish Cancel
Needle wavebounce
f-tilt lock
Though I'll agree Shiek has more ATs, half of those aren't actually ATs. For example, every character has ACed aerials and can wavebounce specials. Just because things are doable, doesn't make them ATs. Also, Chain Jacketing is kind of useless.
 

saviorslegacy

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Though I'll agree Shiek has more ATs, half of those aren't actually ATs. For example, every character has ACed aerials and can wavebounce specials. Just because things are doable, doesn't make them ATs. Also, Chain Jacketing is kind of useless.
From what I have been told anything that Nintendo HASN'T told us is an AT.
Also, wavebouncing her Needle's is very helpful because than can be canceled giving the entire time of lag like 7 frames.
Her Fair timing is as bad as Ganon's.

Also, Chain jacketing is not useless.
If you jacket Vanish's wind you will be able to guard the ledge with a constant wind box.
Also, if someone throws out a stray projectile you can USmash and get hit by it. If done right only the tipper hit box will come out. You can then jacket a USmash tipper for an easy kill.
Of course... no Sheiks listen to me and do these two things. -_-
 

Kewkky

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I think jacketing is too sexy... But too hard. I tried my best in Melee to consistently do the Yo-yo glitch and couldn't (both glitches are veery similar... Yo-yo Glitch and Chain Jacketing). Just stuck to Samus afterwards due to how hard it was to do it all the time, heheheh.
 

fromundaman

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From what I have been told anything that Nintendo HASN'T told us is an AT.
Also, wavebouncing her Needle's is very helpful because than can be canceled giving the entire time of lag like 7 frames.
Her Fair timing is as bad as Ganon's.

Also, Chain jacketing is not useless.
If you jacket Vanish's wind you will be able to guard the ledge with a constant wind box.
Also, if someone throws out a stray projectile you can USmash and get hit by it. If done right only the tipper hit box will come out. You can then jacket a USmash tipper for an easy kill.
Of course... no Sheiks listen to me and do these two things. -_-
Okay, I'll address everything individually:

- No it's not. If that were the case, our list of ATs would be like 12 pages long for every character, and Link would need a whole AT thread.

-Not saying the opposite.

-Lol no it's not. I played a little Shiek back when, and no, it's definitely not. Ganon can't AC his Fair without doing a double jump, since he still gets landing lag after he's done with the move for some reason.

-If you search the forum (Search for an old thread I started on the Shiek forums), you'll see I was the one who originally suggested jacketing the wind to stop people from grabbing the edge. I was told it was not useful since A) Chain Jacketing is so hard to reliably do that you're more likely to get punished for trying, and B) that scenario requires you to knock them offstage, THEN do a Vanish, THEN do a chain Jacket, by which time they should have recovered if they were going to, and/or gimping them with needles/aerials would have been easier. Only scenario where it's helpful is against plankers.
 

Asdioh

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^ what he said :3


I just watched your September Chain Jacketing video, and I don't understand the "jacketing a move" part because I didn't see any moves beside the chain. Also, that was done in training mode, where moves don't stale, so the chain did more damage and knockback than it should have, right?
Just pointing that out.

I've heard about chain jacketing for a long time, and never understood what it was until now, and it looks like it's only good against someone without a projectile, and even then only when you have the lead.

>_>

Also for Kirby's ATs, don't forget the LEDGE-CANCELLED HAMMER ZOMGFMGIZMFGO
Where you walk/run at the ledge, Hammer right before you go off, and your momentum sends you offstage before you actually attack with the hammer.
TOTALLY useless because all it does is give you a split second of "mindgames" (your opponent *might* think to themselves "oh no he's doing a grounded hammer on the ledge") and then you get phantom lag next time you land, despite not actually swinging the hammer.

Disregard this last paragraph.
 

Kewkky

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Also for Kirby's ATs, don't forget the LEDGE-CANCELLED HAMMER ZOMGFMGIZMFGO
Where you walk/run at the ledge, Hammer right before you go off, and your momentum sends you offstage before you actually attack with the hammer.
TOTALLY useless because all it does is give you a split second of "mindgames" (your opponent *might* think to themselves "oh no he's doing a grounded hammer on the ledge") and then you get phantom lag next time you land, despite not actually swinging the hammer.
That's no AT, it's a G-AT.
gay advanced technique
 

saviorslegacy

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#1 When you perform the Chain Jacket you take the last hit box that has been performed by Sheik and embed it into the chain.

#2 Decay has has no effect on the chain jacket.

#3 I Jacketed a Fair.

#4 It blocks projectiles.


The Chain Jacketed is probably the strangest glitch in all of smash history.
It can freeze the game if you perform it as one of your first 3 moves in the match or if it is your first chain pull.
There has been almost no testing done it though.
My theories include a possible black hole (I will not speak anymore on this so do not ask me), hit box detaching and possible fusing the Chain to Sheik so she can do anything with a RNDM floating hit box circling her.
 

Asdioh

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well then it should be BANNED WITHOUT TESTING

like Metaknight's infinite cape glitch XD

though that doesn't need testing to be bannable.
then again, maybe your opponent could tire themselves out from doing it, thus making them easier to beat. hmmm
 

saviorslegacy

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well then it should be BANNED WITHOUT TESTING

like Metaknight's infinite cape glitch XD

though that doesn't need testing to be bannable.
then again, maybe your opponent could tire themselves out from doing it, thus making them easier to beat. hmmm
It shouldn't be banned and it takes 21 frames to attack with Chain.
Thus anyone can attack us. It isn't full proof...

lol @ being to tired to fight! xD
 

ThreeSided

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well then it should be BANNED WITHOUT TESTING

like Metaknight's infinite cape glitch XD

though that doesn't need testing to be bannable.
then again, maybe your opponent could tire themselves out from doing it, thus making them easier to beat. hmmm
There's another reason the AT could very well be banned, but is TOTALLY wroth abusing while it isn't due to it's sexy *** cheapness.

Say you're losing pretty bad. Assuming you haven't pulled chain all game...

*Chain Jacketed*

*game freezes*

OOPS THE GAME FROZE OH WELL LET'S TRY AGAIN.

No one has to know it was on purpose. <.<;
 

Kewkky

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There's another reason the AT could very well be banned, but is TOTALLY wroth abusing while it isn't due to it's sexy *** cheapness.

Say you're losing pretty bad. Assuming you haven't pulled chain all game...

*Chain Jacketed*

*game freezes*

OOPS THE GAME FROZE OH WELL LET'S TRY AGAIN.

No one has to know it was on purpose. <.<;
:D

This gives me a reason to learn how to chainjacket for friendlies... "I'm losing? OH NO I'M NOT!" Bam. Frozen game.
 

Triple R

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lol I'm pretty sure that SBR rules state that you are responsible for knowing your character and ways it could freeze the game. I'm pretty sure if you freeze the game with your character, even accidentally, you forfeit that game.


Edit: Found it
"Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects."
 

ThreeSided

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lol I'm pretty sure that SBR rules state that you are responsible for knowing your character and ways it could freeze the game. I'm pretty sure if you freeze the game with your character, even accidentally, you forfeit that game.


Edit: Found it
"Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects."
What a shame. =[
 

fromundaman

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:D

This gives me a reason to learn how to chainjacket for friendlies... "I'm losing? OH NO I'M NOT!" Bam. Frozen game.
Except... you'd need to do this before throwing out a total of 3 attacks in the whole match, whiffed or not.

So yeah, I guess if you took the 1st hit and want to freeze the game over it...
 

saviorslegacy

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Okay, I'll address everything individually:

- No it's not. If that were the case, our list of ATs would be like 12 pages long for every character, and Link would need a whole AT thread.

-Not saying the opposite.

-Lol no it's not. I played a little Shiek back when, and no, it's definitely not. Ganon can't AC his Fair without doing a double jump, since he still gets landing lag after he's done with the move for some reason.

-If you search the forum (Search for an old thread I started on the Shiek forums), you'll see I was the one who originally suggested jacketing the wind to stop people from grabbing the edge. I was told it was not useful since A) Chain Jacketing is so hard to reliably do that you're more likely to get punished for trying, and B) that scenario requires you to knock them offstage, THEN do a Vanish, THEN do a chain Jacket, by which time they should have recovered if they were going to, and/or gimping them with needles/aerials would have been easier. Only scenario where it's helpful is against plankers.
I was comparing Ganons Dair to Sheiks Fair.
Make her do her Fair from a SH and if you can double jump before you hit the ground to timed it correctly.

If I gave a **** what others opinion about Sheik was then I wouldn't have tried to advance area's that aren't looked into. You were smart in this instance for coming up with this idea.
They were dumb for being closed minded.

IF you want the set up then here it is:
You can Vanish glide to gimp and then jacket the wind after that.
You can use a wall of Bairs, Vanish to the stage, Vanish cancel the landing and then jack the wind.
Vanish has a hit box that reaches under the lip. Thus, a well timed Vanish will keep anyone from grabbing the ledge. If they try to come back simply jack the wind.

There's your set ups. Oh, and I have done it before.
Except... you'd need to do this before throwing out a total of 3 attacks in the whole match, whiffed or not.

So yeah, I guess if you took the 1st hit and want to freeze the game over it...
this is wrong.
If your first chain is a jack it will freeze the game.
I have frozen the game when I was on my second stock.
 

Pink murder

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I have a question regarding Diddy's bananas...

What the heck am I supposed to do when he takes em' out?! I remember posting a topic about this a few years back, but now that I'm playing much more experience players, I think its best to get some new info.

Basically, the only thing my Diddy opponent let me do was float around and hope I didn't get hit. I managed to land a couple of Bairs and the occasional grab, but he still won by a landslide. I tried feinting landings, but I only got dash attacked. I tried grabbing and throwing the bananas back at him, but he either caught them or dodged them only to pick them up afterward with a dash attack. I tried throwing them out, but he just popped another one out; in fact, it often wasn't worth the trouble to even get the banana in the first place. It was extremely difficult to try and block the barrage of bananas -particularly online.

I'm left without a paddle. I got pummeled and I couldn't do anything about it. I NEEDS HELP!!
☠

●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●
 

Kewkky

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I have a question regarding Diddy's bananas...

What the heck am I supposed to do when he takes em' out?! I remember posting a topic about this a few years back, but now that I'm playing much more experience players, I think its best to get some new info.

Basically, the only thing my Diddy opponent let me do was float around and hope I didn't get hit. I managed to land a couple of Bairs and the occasional grab, but he still won by a landslide. I tried feinting landings, but I only got dash attacked. I tried grabbing and throwing the bananas back at him, but he either caught them or dodged them only to pick them up afterward with a dash attack. I tried throwing them out, but he just popped another one out; in fact, it often wasn't worth the trouble to even get the banana in the first place. It was extremely difficult to try and block the barrage of bananas -particularly online.

I'm left without a paddle. I got pummeled and I couldn't do anything about it. I NEEDS HELP!!
☠

●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●
I'd really like to see a vid with you playing at your best, against one of your exped diddy friends. I don't really know what should I tip you on, I need to see how he plays and what you do.
 

Lord Viper

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All Kirby's should know how to faint a D-Air with a Jab if D-Air fails or is shielded. However it depends on who you fight or how you land, some characters like King Dedede could able to grab you after your second jab, some characters can attack you right after you stop jabbing.

Anyone else want's to test this or already does this?
 

Pink murder

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I'd really like to see a vid with you playing at your best, against one of your exped diddy friends. I don't really know what should I tip you on, I need to see how he plays and what you do.
☠
I'll be sure to save a replay next time I play him -whenever that will be x(. I can, however, show you one of my typical matches so you have a general Idea of what my Kirby looks like.
☠


All Kirby's should know how to faint a D-Air with a Jab if D-Air fails or is shielded. However it depends on who you fight or how you land, some characters like King Dedede could able to grab you after your second jab, some characters can attack you right after you stop jabbing.

Anyone else want's to test this or already does this?
☠
Do you mean to jab right after a failed D-air? If not, please elaborate.
☠

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Kewkky

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I'll be sure to save a replay next time I play him -whenever that will be x(. I can, however, show you one of my typical matches so you have a general Idea of what my Kirby looks like.
☠
Nah, I don't mean critique your Kirby, I mean save a replay (whenever you get the chance) or two, and post em here so I can see what other options you could've done, or what would be the BEST options to do instead of the good options... And stuff.
 

Percon

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☠
I have a question regarding Diddy's bananas...

What the heck am I supposed to do when he takes em' out?! I remember posting a topic about this a few years back, but now that I'm playing much more experience players, I think its best to get some new info.

Basically, the only thing my Diddy opponent let me do was float around and hope I didn't get hit. I managed to land a couple of Bairs and the occasional grab, but he still won by a landslide. I tried feinting landings, but I only got dash attacked. I tried grabbing and throwing the bananas back at him, but he either caught them or dodged them only to pick them up afterward with a dash attack. I tried throwing them out, but he just popped another one out; in fact, it often wasn't worth the trouble to even get the banana in the first place. It was extremely difficult to try and block the barrage of bananas -particularly online.

I'm left without a paddle. I got pummeled and I couldn't do anything about it. I NEEDS HELP!!
☠

●▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬●
Oho! I think I can help. Against diddies I usually play as aggressively as I can so what they don't pull out bananas. If a diddy pulls out a banana, I'd try to grab it before he can, and then proceed to throw it away from them.

Note that I didn't say to throw them off the stage. What you need to do, and what I'd recommend to most characters playing against a diddy, is to throw them to where diddy either can't access it or must spend time trying to get it.

This includes the opposite side of FD, smashville's moving platform, and support ghosts. Any difficult-to-access platform works. Basically, if the diddy has to double-jump of cover a lot of ground to reach the banana, that's good. Also, you should try to get yourself in between diddy and the banana whenever possible.

This will force the diddy to go to some lengths to get the banana back, pull out another one if he can (which, if you're close to him, can be caught before he can do a thing about it), or just fight without bananas. Oftentimes you can hit a diddy a few times as he tries to reach his lost banana; if you're good, you can get him off the stage or at least continue to keep him away from his banana.

Throwing it at him is not a very good idea. He can simply re-catch it, or dash attack to catch it and hit you in the process. I'll wager that the diddy player will know how to use bananas much better than you, too. The only instance where I'd say "throw it at him" is if the diddy's offstage, where it could potentially mess up his recovery and where he can't pull bananas back out.

Though you can always catch a banana diddy pulls out before he can react, make sure you catch it quickly (while it's in the air); he'll peg you with something if you're too slow.

Um... basically, stay close to him and don't go high into the air too much; that gives him tons of time to pull naners out and get ready to punish your landing.

Be ever vigilant; the matchup takes time to learn, but once you learn a few things about how diddy plays, you'll be able to play against diddies competently with almost any character.
 

Lord Viper

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Do you mean to jab right after a failed D-air? If not, please elaborate.
☠

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Yes. Sometimes you can pull off the jab when you land on the ground while in the middle of D-Air, but it's much better if you land after your D-Air is finished, (of course there's a chance that you are able to lay damage on them, but your opponent can able to grab you anyways, I forgot the name of how/why that happens).
 

Kewkky

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Yes. Sometimes you can pull off the jab when you land on the ground while in the middle of D-Air, but it's much better if you land after your D-Air is finished, (of course there's a chance that you are able to lay damage on them, but your opponent can able to grab you anyways, I forgot the name of how/why that happens).
Why don't you ftilt them/grab em instead? I dunno, seems like a better idea to me.

... Still, why land with a dair if it won't get AC'd? It's asking for a shieldgrab if they know Kirby inside out. D:
 

Kewkky

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**** good, man. Kirby on battlefield is a very awesome combination. We can use the platforms on our adcantage way better than other characters can, and we can gimp people here really easy. The sides and ceiling blast zones are a good distance away, where we can still kill nicely and survive as well. Pulling off kirbicides here is easy too, since there's a stage we can spit them out under and stagespike them with uairs. There are no stage hazards either, so we can give our full attention to our enemy.


Yeah, I'm just one Kirby main that likes the place, but it is good for Kirby.
 

~Shao~

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As Kewkky said, Battlefield is a pretty good stage for Kirby, but there are some match-ups where you should avoid going there, generally characters with better range and/or big disjoints

Marth: even though we can use the platforms pretty well, he has an easier time doing it, and does it better than us. And he isn't a fatty for us to be able to harass him to much when on a platform.

Snake: with all the platforms, he has too much room to control the stage with his explosives, and his u-tilt just **** platforms. However, we can harass him when he's above a platform, just got to watch out for the grenades.

Dedede: he can camp beneath the bottom platforms pretty well, and this limits our approach to running shield grab basically. But like Snake, we can combo him well from beneath platforms, but without the grenade inconvenient.

_________________________
I personally don't like Battlefield very much because the platforms limit our aerial camping and pressure, making it even harder to approach. Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that my friend mains Marth...

In the end, is just comes down to personal preference.
 

Kewkky

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I think that when they utilt us from below platforms, it's a blessing. If we shield it, then we can immediately drop and bair them while they're in their animations, before they have a chance to shield. And Snake's explosives in that stage are overrated, IMO. It's all about knowing where they are at all times. ;)
 

Lord Viper

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Why don't you ftilt them/grab em instead? I dunno, seems like a better idea to me.

... Still, why land with a dair if it won't get AC'd? It's asking for a shieldgrab if they know Kirby inside out. D:
Jabs come out faster, and is less punishable. It's nice to perform something.... unexpected but not over use the same method. F-Tilt makes you a little more open for an enemy to attack if it misses, but Kirby's jab can contantly attack.

Dedede: he can camp beneath the bottom platforms pretty well, and this limits our approach to running shield grab basically. But like Snake, we can combo him well from beneath platforms, but without the grenade inconvenient.
King Dedede should not pick Battlefield when it come's to characters like Kirby. Due to his size, he is very limited when it come's to air attacks. Kirby can also shark him while he's on the platform and make him come to the ground and fall right into an attack. Even Stone can hit King Dedede from under the left and right platforms unless he's crouching. >.<

He's not totally helpless, he still can kill you with his U-Tilt while your on the left and right platforms, but due to how easy it is to spot it coming, you should avoid it. The main problem with D3 on Battlefield is his air tatics are limited due to the stage size, so to use his air tatics better would be above the platforms, but if King Dedede lands, you can able to shark him or if he's on the ground, you just make sure you watch is grab, F-Tilt, or his Waddle Dee.
 

Kewkky

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you just make sure you watch is grab
Waaaay easier said than done, seriously. He's gonna rack up your damage with brags only.

A small word of advice: when you're gonna go up against a DDD mainer, always take the #1 controller port. DDD will kick your *** harder if you don't. >_>
 
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