Kirby Everything -- Kirby Social Thread

[SazoonTheBoon]

Im convinced our U-Air is the best U-Air in the game **** ZSS, **** Pika, **** MK, **** Fox.

It has amazing combo potential with its autocancel timing, and with late falling u-airs. It can kill like at 100%, depending on how high the opponent is to the ceiling. And I just tested this in debug, the back hit of uair IS (basically) Sheik's F-air... not only in terms of knockback angle and power, but you know how sheiks like to SHFF F-air for pressure on shield and stuff, our U-air does the exact same thing. Both has 4 frames after the hitbox ends before the move autocancels. I think the only difference is sheiks does 13 while ours does 12 (but both have 7 frames of shield stun, with -1 frame adv), and hers might be a stonger in knockback, and the start-up is different of course. Ive kinda known this for a while back in the brawl days but I didnt know it was this good! Also this can be used along side the d-tilt thing I said above, only thing is it takes one frame to turn around so we'd be crouched on frame 2 instead of 1, dtilt would come out frame 5, utilt would still come out frame 4 after we land. Kirby's pressure is looking mad good!

Kirby is just backwards shiek!

 

[skellitorman]

Im convinced our U-Air is the best U-Air in the game **** ZSS, **** Pika, **** MK, **** Fox.

It has amazing combo potential with its autocancel timing, and with late falling u-airs. It can kill like at 100%, depending on how high the opponent is to the ceiling. And I just tested this in debug, the back hit of uair IS (basically) Sheik's F-air... not only in terms of knockback angle and power, but you know how sheiks like to SHFF F-air for pressure on shield and stuff, our U-air does the exact same thing. Both has 4 frames after the hitbox ends before the move autocancels. I think the only difference is sheiks does 13 while ours does 12 (but both have 7 frames of shield stun, with -1 frame adv), and hers might be a stonger in knockback, and the start-up is different of course. Ive kinda known this for a while back in the brawl days but I didnt know it was this good! Also this can be used along side the d-tilt thing I said above, only thing is it takes one frame to turn around so we'd be crouched on frame 2 instead of 1, dtilt would come out frame 5, utilt would still come out frame 4 after we land. Kirby's pressure is looking mad good!

Kirby's pressure is good but the practicality of turning around and frame perfect d-tilt after reverse uair is questionable. Frame perfect turn around up-tilt is easy in comparison since all that is necessary is to hold a single direction at the top of the control, wait a frame for the turn around and press the attack button. It is not possible to do the same with d-tilt since the same input would force an immediate crouch instead of turning around. It is still possible to do the turn around crouch with lightly tilting the stick in the exact spot that will allow a turn around instead of a crouch, and a d-tilt instead of a downward angled f-tilt, but it is difficult in comparison.

Even if it was easy, d-tilt in such a position is not worth the risk/reward because it can't be followed up on hit and on block it's -10 right next to the opponent. Although an utilt is riskier (-14 on block), it is heavily rewarding on hit and easier to perform.

Also Kirby's uair l-cancels in 7 frames (unlike Shiek's fair which is 8) so if done frame perfect, then Kirby is 0 on block. Furthermore, the 3rd active frame actually has 1 more frame of hitstun making it +1 on block (if canceled frame perfect) and it is practical to rely on given that the timing is practiced well. It is also more rewarding on hit since it will pop up the opponent leading into a combo as opposed to hitting them away.

To do a frame perfect cancel on the 3rd frame of uair: Kirby can start the uair on frame 23 (not including jump startup) and start the fast fall on frame 27 (+1 on block).

To do a frame perfect uair on the 4th frame of uair: start the uair on frame 18 and start the fast fall on frame 22 (0 on block).

To do a frame perfect uair on the 1st frame of uair: start the uair on frame 20 and start the fastfall on frame 23 (+1 on block).

Uair in pressure situations does work but fair with spaced dtilt is also very effective.

 

[Phan7om]

Kirby's pressure is good but the practicality of turning around and frame perfect d-tilt after reverse uair is questionable. Frame perfect turn around up-tilt is easy in comparison since all that is necessary is to hold a single direction at the top of the control, wait a frame for the turn around and press the attack button. It is not possible to do the same with d-tilt since the same input would force an immediate crouch instead of turning around. It is still possible to do the turn around crouch with lightly tilting the stick in the exact spot that will allow a turn around instead of a crouch, and a d-tilt instead of a downward angled f-tilt, but it is difficult in comparison.

Even if it was easy, d-tilt in such a position is not worth the risk/reward because it can't be followed up on hit and on block it's -10 right next to the opponent. Although an utilt is riskier (-14 on block), it is heavily rewarding on hit and easier to perform.

Also Kirby's uair l-cancels in 7 frames (unlike Shiek's fair which is 8) so if done frame perfect, then Kirby is 0 on block. Furthermore, the 3rd active frame actually has 1 more frame of hitstun making it +1 on block (if canceled frame perfect) and it is practical to rely on given that the timing is practiced well. It is also more rewarding on hit since it will pop up the opponent leading into a combo as opposed to hitting them away.

To do a frame perfect cancel on the 3rd frame of uair: Kirby can start the uair on frame 23 (not including jump startup) and start the fast fall on frame 27 (+1 on block).

To do a frame perfect uair on the 4th frame of uair: start the uair on frame 18 and start the fast fall on frame 22 (0 on block).

To do a frame perfect uair on the 1st frame of uair: start the uair on frame 21 and start the fastfall on frame 24 (+1 on block).

Uair in pressure situations does work but fair with spaced dtilt is also very effective.

Good stuff! Thanks for this.

 

[SazoonTheBoon]

Rip backwards shiek

 

[Jinjo64]

This thread is really developing well for 3.5. The uair possibilities are amazing. Great job everyone! Also I have a question regarding on the uses of footstooling. Is it ever better than Dairing off the stage?

 

[KrisMellon]

This thread is really developing well for 3.5. The uair possibilities are amazing. Great job everyone! Also I have a question regarding on the uses of footstooling. Is it ever better than Dairing off the stage?

From my experience Kirb's Dair is more faithful than just footstooling the opponent, however footstooling proves to enrage my opponent more.

 

[FreeGamer]

I always go for the D-Air because 18% if all hits connect.

 

[SazoonTheBoon]

I always go for the D-Air because 18% if all hits connect.

All of the hits usually won't connect Also you aren't going for damage, you're going for gimps in this case. At that point I'd sooner ff bair

 

[FreeGamer]

There's something satisfying about dunking them just low enough so that they think they can make it back, and then they don't.

 

[SazoonTheBoon]

You'd probably like falco haha

 

[Phan7om]

Thats why Kirby's DAir is underrated, yes its a meteor but its the best meteor in the game imo.

 

[FreeGamer]

You'd probably like falco haha

Actually, he's one of my most hated characters. Not much fun to play against when he has Lasers/Shine/D-Air to laugh at you with.

 

[Phan7om]

I assumed Kirby couldn't dash-cancel ZSS paralyzer. He definitely still can on the fully charged version. Most likely gonna get fixed tho.

Edit: @Magus420 any consensus on changes to some of Kirby's copy abilities in the next mini update. I know some probably technically cannot be made to act like the original but some like Samus' should still charge in the air and be able to B-reverse, and Lucario's should cancel sooner, etc.

 

[Onett kid]

Hey everyone. I just started to pick up Kirby recently, and was just wondering what his game plan is. What should I be doing, what I shouldn't, how to pressure opponents, ect. Any input would really help. Thanks.

 

[FreeGamer]

Don't spam Cutter Dash, it has too much risk for too little reward now.

 

[Phan7om]

Hey everyone. I just started to pick up Kirby recently, and was just wondering what his game plan is. What should I be doing, what I shouldn't, how to pressure opponents, ect. Any input would really help. Thanks.

Just read Tetraflora's Guide, hes got all the basics down.
http://smashboards.com/threads/tetrafloras-kirby-guide.378197/

 

[Larsenv]

What does all this mean?

I feel like a noob at this subject.

Kirby's usually my primary character...

 

[Onett kid]

Just read Tetraflora's Guide, hes got all the basics down.
http://smashboards.com/threads/tetrafloras-kirby-guide.378197/

Thanks. I was actually incorporating some of this stuff in my Kirby play, so at least I know I'm doing something right. But this is really helpful.

 

[Jethroo]

What does all this mean?

I feel like a noob at this subject.

Kirby's usually my primary character...

You will pick it up over time. Just ask if you need help or don't understand anything.

 

[SazoonTheBoon]

Hey merry christmas everyone

 

[JipC]

So just hitting Kirby once while he uses upB eats ALL of his jumps? wtf? Are they trying to make it useless?

 

[Phan7om]

So just hitting Kirby once while he uses upB eats ALL of his jumps? wtf? Are they trying to make it useless?

Thats why its bad to Up-B recklessly. Final Cutter has no hitbox coming up, and Cutter Dash has no hitbox going forward just underneath. Almost anything can beat them.

 

[Jethroo]

So just hitting Kirby once while he uses upB eats ALL of his jumps? wtf? Are they trying to make it useless?

It was like that it last version to. Most people don't notice though because most don't bother to attack kirby while he is recovering because they think he is to good at recovering and that maintaining stage advantage is the best strategy.
p.s. in 3.5 kirby loses all but one jump after cutterdash (upB forward) and can't airdodge after anymore.

Check this out.
Kirby VS Majin Buu | DEATH BATTLE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwzH7eSOwAc

 

[metaXzero]

I hate not being able to airdodge out of cutterdash. Sucks getting edgehogged in a non-helpless state.

 

[FreeGamer]

If they were going to make Final Cutter so risky, they should have made it more rewarding too.

 

[Jethroo]

I hate not being able to airdodge out of cutterdash. Sucks getting edgehogged in a non-helpless state.

The airdodge made kirby's recovery way to good for the all around recovery nerf that they implemented in 3.5.

Also, if possible you can try to Dair them which will forcing them to maybe hit your while trying to recover or just die. Depends on range and when end lag ends for what attack to use though.

If they were going to make Final Cutter so risky, they should have made it more rewarding too.

Ya it makes me sad to, but as long as you finished the start up of the attack it was pretty safe.

Edit: safe in 3.0

 

[skellitorman]

I hate not being able to airdodge out of cutterdash. Sucks getting edgehogged in a non-helpless state.

At least it is fair that it acts that way. Unfortunately, what is not fair are the other recoveries that didn't get properly nerfed as I thought they would.

If they were going to make Final Cutter so risky, they should have made it more rewarding too.

I thought about that, but instead of making it more rewarding, they should at least make it function as it looks (which in turn would make it slightly better). Putting hitboxes on frames 25-27 where the animation looks exactly the same as the previous frames with hitboxes makes sense. Putting hitboxes on frames 38-40 also makes sense since Kirby looks like he is slashing with the cutter blade during those frames.

 

[SazoonTheBoon]

If they were going to make Final Cutter so risky, they should have made it more rewarding too.

getting back to the stage is pretty rewarding also as kirby mains we really should not be complaining about recovery nerfs. we still have one of the stronger recoveries

 

[FreeGamer]

Recovery is still strictly better than Melee Kirby, so I'm not super salty about that. However, it is rather disappointing to have Final Cutter become so risky that it stops being a worthwhile offensive option.

 

[skellitorman]

Just wanted to let Kirby players know this for those who don't know, but Starshot is punishable against certain characters just like Copy is punishable by Fox. The Fox punish is 1 frame, but the Starshot punish is much more lenient since Kirby is lagged for 23 frames after shooting the star unlike the 17 lag frames of Copy.

Hopefully this gets fixed.

It's quite lame that the most effective use for Kirby's signature move is not to copy the opponents ability or shoot them as a star, but to suicide. I would gladly trade "Kirbyciding" for functional and rewarding abilities.

 

[FreeGamer]

I never understood why Star Shot could be mashed out of. It's not like it would be unfair if it went the whole distance. :/

 

[metaXzero]

I think we'd have to make alot of noise to get the Copy/Starshot punish window fixed. Sounds like something the PMDT would forget about if not reminded.

As for why Starshot is mashable, just another questionable decision in the list of questionable decisions made by Sakurai when designing characters. Would be nice if the PMDT changed that, but I don't care that much about it. I just want to not get N-aired by Luigi or Up-B'd by Gdubs Out of Copy/Starshot.

 

[SazoonTheBoon]

Is it just me or does it seem like pm hype is kinda just dying in general? I mean like sure there hasn't been national in a while, but it even a lot of the usual streamers don't seem to be doing as much pm anymore. I guess the smash 4 scene is kinda stealing the limelight from pm. Even the forums here seem to be kinda slow. This is all in my opinion; what are yours?

 

[FreeGamer]

It's a temporary trend, just wait over the next year as people get bored of Smash 4 and its super defensive meta.

 

[SazoonTheBoon]

Hopefully c:

 

[FreeGamer]

I hope so too. I like my Smash games better when Kirby isn't trash. :3

 

[metaXzero]

It makes me sad that Kirby might never get fixed in an official Smash game. From great, to crap, to mediocre.

Back to PM though, how do you guys normally approach neutral? Particularly against spacies and characters that have projectiles like Link. I'm coming to grips with the fact that my neutral is utter garbage and I only succeed through match-up inexperience from my opponents.

 

[Jinjo64]

I know what you guys mean....I actually started playing Kirby in melee sd remix. He feels so much better and up throw is a kill throw at later percents. I would love ot post a video, but the game is rather unpopular atm. I wish PM would design more like this instead of a swallowcide/dash attack beast.

 

[metaXzero]

I've only seen a little of sd remix, but it doesn't sound like Kirby would be anything special. Didn't they just copy some Brawl values and fix the stupid broken things like Copy being punishable, air Hammer being punishable, Dash Attack being punishable, throws being worthless outside suicide attacks, etc. Sounds like he'd just a mid-tier with the same approach problems that plague all Kirbies post-64.

But again, I havent't seen much of SD remix Kirby.

 

[Jinjo64]

I've only seen a little of sd remix, but it doesn't sound like Kirby would be anything special. Didn't they just copy some Brawl values and fix the stupid broken things like Copy being punishable, air Hammer being punishable, Dash Attack being punishable, throws being worthless outside suicide attacks, etc. Sounds like he'd just a mid-tier with the same approach problems that plague all Kirbies post-64.

But again, I havent't seen much of SD remix Kirby.

Ill try to post stuff tomorrow and show you guys what Ive practiced. he has nothing brawl on him and his hammer is plat cancelable. rapid fire spin hammer if fast enough. also he still has his old melee tech like grab out of dash attack. I really think pm needs to look at this. I prefer 64 or melee kirby over brawl kirby design moveset any day.