King Dedede General Moveset Discussion

[Banjo-Kazooie]

@ Lavani we found out that the Dedede chose random equipment not knowing what it did exactly. So that is where the extra damage came off. Thanks for the help trying to find out the answer (too bad it ended being something lame).

Hi, I'm fairly new to using King Dedede, just picked him up a few weeks ago (Came from using Marth and Pit). I'm wondering how useful sticking Gordos on walls is. It seems to take a large amount of time to set up, and the Gordos don't stick around for long anyways. I just want to know whether or not this tactic is viable, I don't mean to complain or anything. Thanks.

Personally I'd rather put a Gordo to bounce near the corner or just throw it off-stage to the enemy for edge guarding purposes. Sticking a Gordo to the wall takes indeed too much time to set up.
Perhaps vs some recoveries it can work; but Dedede has a lot of edgeguard options already to worry about sticky Gordos. Seems unnecessary unless someone discovers a way to make the work.

 

[Nick Fury]

In all honesty, I didn't play much D3 in Brawl, but i really like his new back air, and I would like some Brawl D3 mains feedback on which one was better.

 

[Jabejazz]

His old one by a landslide.

Stupid good range, extremely fast, potent kill move, could safely poke shield, which allowed much safer aerial approaches.

His current bair isn't bad, it's just that his old one was so much better,

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Yeah, Brawl bair could effectively wall people out if you spaced it properly. D3's psuedo "wall of pain" in that game was so good.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Nitric Acid]

I really miss the old bair. There was no getting past it. This has a good hitbox, so it's easy to hit with given the right timing, but the loss of speed feels weird.

 

[ccthirteen]

FF is a necessity to KD3's air game. I need to improve my ground game though. Personally, I'd love to see a better dash attack from him. The startup lag for the hit is kinda ridiculous. Unless I'm punishing a tech, it's me that will get punished (in my experience)

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

I feel like I play D3 super campy, which is weird for me. I'm normally hyper aggressive. Mainly I camp with Gordos and utilize his ftilt to space and punish approaches.
I'm going to really work on regrabbing Gordos, considering how much I use them, it seems important.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Sad thing is that you have to kind of play D3 in a campy way. You have to take your time and choose your battles wisely, otherwise you're going to end up in a bad way. Nine times outta ten, this "bad way" usually entails trading (keep in mind sometimes trading isn't always in your favor), or you're going to get dunked in the neutral game because you're a fatass and everybody can hit you like the broadside of a barn.

You gotta space, space, space all of your attacks; I usually try and avoid doing anything that isn't a throw up close anymore, instead opting out for the max range on about all of my normals. This way I can usually catch my opponents whiffing, not the other way around, and go from there. Mind, I don't necessarily encourage standing around at that range like a derp and trying to ftilt all day. I'm scheming by virtue of my movement alone, giving ground and subsequently taking it back, and making sure I'm there to punish them when they **** up. Doesn't matter if I'm shielding (waddling?) my way through projectiles or not, I always try and situate myself at that range. Personally, I think it's key to ensure that we're on the counteroffensive like this rather than being straight-up defensive, otherwise we'll lose the war of attrition by being sedentary to the point of getting overwhelmed. I'm sure there will be instances where you're forced to run away and that's fine, but keep that in mind when you're going to approach and make your move.

As for Gordos: They're important, but you shouldn't be chucking them out there all the time. Throw Gordos out on occasion only to condition reactions and make doable reads, or punish flubbed techs or whatever real situational thing that comes up.

(I really need to draw up a diagram and show you guys what I'm talking about with positioning, unless @ Jabejazz and @ Lavani already have an inkling).

Smooth Criminal

 

[Culix]

You can't re-grab them, but you can try to hit it back with side b again if
you have time (or maybe any attack would work?)

I tried but it didn't work

 

[Culix]

Actually just pressing A worked lol...

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

It's a tight timing window, but if you click A just as the gordo comes back to you, you regrab and throw it, you can also use side-b. Shoutouts to Bad Kenny

 

[ccthirteen]

It's anything that does 2% damage or higher. I think that rule applies to the re-reflect as well.

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

God, I wish you could save the charge on Jet Hammer. Is there any use for that move?

 

[MagiusNecros]

God, I wish you could save the charge on Jet Hammer. Is there any use for that move?

Surprise move or if a dummy is dumb enough to stay on the ledge you can hit them with a full charge Jet hammer.

 

[Firzy]

Hi guys ! I just wanted to ask ,what's the best thing to do after a Dthrow? Fair or Nair? I usually go for a fair and then a Dtilt on the ground,but everything can be risky. I'd really like to know if they are better options. Thanks !

 

[Jabejazz]

Uair.

At low %, you can mix it up with a FF to attempt a re-grab. At mid % Nair isn't even an options anymore.
When rage kicks in, Fair isn't an option either, and even UAir is sketchy.

Regardless, UAir puts them in a worse position than Fair or Nair does, unless for some reason you can land a Fair on them a high %, which sends them off-stage.

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

Yeah I've always used uair as well. Once they get to a certain percent though, I find using a different throw is preferable.

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

Starting to try and incorporate perfect pivoting into my game.
Perfect pivot ftilt seems a really good way to space.

 

[Flawed]

As ann agressive D3, I choose either fair or nair after I grab an opponent at 0%.

Depending on the character and player, I choose options after that I think I can get away with.

For example on Ganondorf
- I down throw into nair - falling nair , jab 1 (whiffs) jab 2 (connects) , jab cancel grab, downthrow , fair, fair or dair if possible
Some of my opponents seem to think that after the first hit, its a combo, when most characters can just press any button during second nair.

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

Aggressive D3, eh? That seems super hard, given his moveset. What is your neutral game like? Just fishing for grabs?

 

[toadster101]

As ann agressive D3, I choose either fair or nair after I grab an opponent at 0%.

Depending on the character and player, I choose options after that I think I can get away with.

For example on Ganondorf
- I down throw into nair - falling nair , jab 1 (whiffs) jab 2 (connects) , jab cancel grab, downthrow , fair, fair or dair if possible
Some of my opponents seem to think that after the first hit, its a combo, when most characters can just press any button during second nair.

Uh... not sure how well this has been working out for ya. You have to play defensively against 90% of the cast. Down throw into forward air was easily the best followup option before the patch, but now I use up air most of the time.

 

[Flawed]

Down throw forward air/Nair still works at low percent, and if you keep doing D-throw Fair, from 0% to 60%, it will still connect, although you may have to read an airdodge at 60ish.

I never played the 3DS version, and I still find this to be the best option, especially if you get the grab at 0. Or 14%. The forward air can lead into so much things, sometimes a stronghit nair is all you need to get a lucky f smash, or start a comeback. #seabass

I save my up air for my 100% kill option. I usually (depending on the weight) down throw when they get to 100%, and they fly sort of straight up and you can jump up fast enough to wait for an airdodge, and wail them with up air, for an early kill, even earlier with rage.

I'll post some replays of how I play in a bit.

 

[Omni]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but a DDD player I played on For Glory was able to consistently have his Gordos attach themselves to the ledges. It kept an active hurtbox while the Gordo stayed in one place covering the ledge.

How does this work?

 

[Jabejazz]

Yes, we called it lodging (or I do, maybe there's no official name for it).

You basically need to make contact with the corner of a ledge (also works with non fall-through platforms, I believe) with your gordo.

It's cool, can definitely has some use when you do it consistently, although I feel that Dedede himself is a much better edge guarder than his Gordos can be.

I'm noticing you bruh.

 

[PokÉmblem]

Unlike most people I didn't know how to use dedede at first so I self taught myself some techs and most people don't know these so lets get started

Neutral b into a dash attack will actually work often since most people just fall down instead of jumping again leavig them helpless.
If you predict that your up b will make the opponnt follow you then they will get hit. That attack is powerful too.
Occasionally edgeguard with the down b or if the opponent is at a high percent an edge guard with a dash attack is a good opton I used correctly.
I recommend if your fighting a slow character like Ike edgeguarding with a forward smash can be useful.

 

[Firzy]

Thanks for the answers for the Dthrow follow ups , I really appreciate :v I'm one of the few french DDDs and it's hard ton find good advices there ^^'
I wanted to ask also,what do you guys think of the Yoshi and the Fox Mu's ? Fox is so damn fast,it's hard for me to make myself some rest. Also,Yoshi's UpB spam is annoying in this game,especially in online matches. I just take hits every 2 secondes :sandbag:

 

[Lavani]

Doing some research with abusing ledgesnap vulnerability.

Things we can abuse this with:

- Dash Attack

- Dsmash

- Ftilt

- Gordos (especially lodged ones!)
- Aerials, obviously. Nair/uair are the easiest to use but we won't get a followup and put ourselves in a bad position for using them as such.

I was really hoping rapid jab was usable as a low-effort tool, but its hitbox isn't anything like ftilt's (and isn't even tied to the hammer wtf). Maybe Dedede Storm can do it though, I didn't try customs yet. Nope, it can't.

 

[Flawed]

I've been trying that dash attack ledge thing that I se in the Gif, but have not succeeded not even once, against bad players...

Must be character specific to teleporters

 

[Slaudial]

Thanks for the answers for the Dthrow follow ups , I really appreciate :v I'm one of the few french DDDs and it's hard ton find good advices there ^^'
I wanted to ask also,what do you guys think of the Yoshi and the Fox Mu's ? Fox is so damn fast,it's hard for me to make myself some rest. Also,Yoshi's UpB spam is annoying in this game,especially in online matches. I just take hits every 2 secondes :sandbag:

I'd imagine that Dedede has a disadvantage against those characters. It's pretty similar to Brawl I think. He probably has a bad matchup against any character that has a strong projectile game such as Fox/Yoshi/Villager/Duck Hunt/Pikachu/Megaman, etc. or pieces of **** like Sonic

 

[rahsosprout]

When does DDD have super armor on his Up B? Is there frame data available?

My initial understanding was that it takes a while for the super armor frames to come out and they go away at the apex of his jump, but I've definitely seen DDD power through moves upon landing (on the way down)

 

[Lavani]

Super armor is active from 5-14f, then again from 53-60f. He also has partial invincibility (I'm guessing feet) starting from 53f.

Mind you, this is just the frame data for the jump itself, and doesn't factor the squatting startup before the jump starts.

 

[Bowserdude]

I feel like people are underestimating Jet Hammer in this game. It has much more potential than in Brawl. It stops hurting 3D at full charge at 100% instead of 150%, it has much more KO power, does tons of shield damage, and it has a ton more range.

 

[meleebrawler]

I feel like people are underestimating Jet Hammer in this game. It has much more potential than in Brawl. It stops hurting 3D at full charge at 100% instead of 150%, it has much more KO power, does tons of shield damage, and it has a ton more range.

Except now it's completely useless unless fully or nearly fully charged.
At least in Brawl you could fire off low charge jets with a bit of confidence.
Now weak jets are punishable on hit, and no amount of extra range excuses that.

 

[toadster101]

I feel like people are underestimating Jet Hammer in this game. It has much more potential than in Brawl. It stops hurting 3D at full charge at 100% instead of 150%, it has much more KO power, does tons of shield damage, and it has a ton more range.

 

[Putuk]

Jet Hammer kinda sucks, but I feel its custom variants might have some use.

 

[meleebrawler]

Jet Hammer kinda sucks, but I feel its custom variants might have some use.

Too bad they make they the "punishable on hit" problem even worse through their lower power.
You want an example of how Armoured Jet could be useful, just look at Kirby's Giant Hammer.

Now Dedede REALLY wants to clobba dat dere Kirbeh.

 

[Bowserdude]

No need to be harsh.
And while I agree on you with those points, it's still a very good edgeguarding tool, being to even hit people hanging off the ledge.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

No need to be harsh.
And while I agree on you with those points, it's still a very good edgeguarding tool, being to even hit people hanging off the ledge.

Dash Attack does the same thing. Down-smash, too. Gordos. Dtilt.

...do you see where I'm going with this?

Smooth Criminal

 

[Bowserdude]

...
It's good for unexpectedness...?
My point is, it's better than it was in Brawl.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

...
It's good for unexpectedness...?
My point is, it's better than it was in Brawl.

You can see Jet Hammer coming from a mile away, so no, you're likely NOT going to hit somebody with it, even if you had the element of surprise. Thirty-something, damn near forty frames for even a minimum-charged Jet Hammer to come out and hit someone. Seriously, dude, it's bad in this game, regardless of how improved it was from Brawl. Even then customs only dubiously improve it, and that's only because each variant has a gimmicky trait.

Smooth Criminal