Kill Percentages (Ness updated)

[Blinky]

Sweetspot and sourspot data Id be willing to add, if you see any I miss Ill of course be willing to add the information, I mentioned that I may accidently miss things like that in the opening post.
As for DI theres alot of things to consider as you mentioned. However character, stale moves (which in answer to a previous question does not happen in training mode so all this data is correct for a fresh hit), DI, and many more things are very hard to get perfect results for, especially when doing this data on my own. However, it is easy to see how strong a move really is from this data, taking an example, Ganondorfs upsmash uncharged kills only slightly lower percentage than his dash attack. I'm not a Ganondorf user, but seeing as the trajectories are similar you can use your own judgement to see how useful this move is in a situation.

 

[Killress]

Great guide.

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

Do Diddy .

 

[Tyr_03]

The reason I think it's important to test for DI is because different moves have trajectories that are more beneficial than others which can make them "stronger" than some others. For instance, one reason that Wario's Fsmash is so good is because it sends opponents at very low angles which can really destroy characters like Fox with high horizontal knockback rates (M2K talks about these for each character in a thread somewhere around here.) Testing with DI straight upward might show this and would be an interesting addition to the data. Attacks with higher trajectories may be more survivable with upward DI than attacks with more horizontal trajectories. I realize these are hard things to test. It can be a real pain. But it'd be cool to see.

 

[Crizthakidd]

this is veryy helpful.

u need to add the other chars but for some reason this is very werid. does snakes f tilt really start killing at 144%?

LOL g&w kills at like 90 i know its true its just hes mad good

 

[Foxy]

Good basic data, but with this kind of thing it's all-or-nothing. And currently you're testing on a computer that I assume is set to stand, which means they will attempt to recovery AND they will have variable DI.

Whenever I calculate kill %'s, I use Mario in the center of FD like you do, but I set him to human and count something as a kill when he's blasted off the sides or top of the stage. It gives better basic data.

 

[Flayl]

You should always assume your opponent DIs

 

[comboking]

I am doing this but I am testing every character for example I will put an Ike on final destination
and use an up air or down air or whatever move and see at what percentage it kills all of the characters.


I am doing this with every attack and character.

so maybe we can help each other out

 

[honestluigi]

wario

do wario please,thanks

 

[comboking]

who me okay

 

[TehBo49]

I already did this with Pikachu. If you want the info, I can link you to it.

 

[honestluigi]

Could some one calculate the kill percentages of Wario's moves, i would greatly appreciate it!

 

[comboking]

i will get it done but i am going to be gone for a week so this might take awhile unless some one beats me to it

 

[SamuraiPanda]

You should keep going on this thread. Its awesome stuff.

 

[comboking]

you got that right

 

[Blackbelt]

This thread is very nice, even though none of the people I use are up there yet.

I eagerly await data on the other fighters.

 

[Flayl]

Kirby
jab - Cannot kill
dash attack - Cannot Kill
ftilt - 223
utilt - 251 (top)
dtilt - Cannot Kill
fsmash - 103
usmash - 101 (top)
dsmash - 113 (top) / 140 (side)
nair - 201
fair - 197 (final hit)
dair - Cannot Kill
bair - 136
uair - 179
fthrow - 192 (diagonal)
bthrow - Cannot kill
dthrow - 296 (top)
uthrow - 167 (top)
special - Can not kill
fspecial - 83 (ground) / 117 (first in air) / 110 (second in air)
dspecial - 100 (top)
uspecial - Cannot kill

Note: My cannot kill means it' can't KO up to 300%. The first hit of the aerial hammer sends them diagonal, that's why it seems weaker than the second, which is horizontal.

 

[ozg82889]

there are some things you need to add to the toon link section.

it is probably well known by toon link mains that during different parts of his up air and dair animations different things happen.

Up air
during toon links up air when you see that flashing x thing on the blade you do 14% fresh and enough knock back to KO Mario from the middle of FD at 123%

after the shiny x is gong you do 12% fresh and KO Mario from the middle of FD at 144%

that's a difference of 21%. the thing is that its sometimes harder to hit with the initial frames of the animation because the hit box isn't fully out and attacks like G&W's dair will hit you before it is fully out. while if you use the up air awhile before you get close to G&W you will lose the initial frames with the shiny x and do less damage and knock back, but you will usually hit him before he hits you with his down air or you will both hit each other because the hit box will be fully extended giving you enough reach to safely hit him.

down air
the down air also also a shiny x that appears during the attack.

while the x is out you do 16% fresh and KO Mario from the middle of FD at 161%. it will hit opponents on the ground directly upwards. it also spikes air born opponents sending the directly downwards without any Di.

after the x is gone you do 14% fresh and you KO Mario from the middle of FD at 152%. air born and grounded opponents will get sent upwards in a diagonal direction.

that's a difference of 9%

what i don't get is how Mario dies earlier when the attack does less damage and hits diagonally upwards instead of directly upwards. i believe it's because it has more knockback after the x disappears despite the fact that it hurts less and doesn't hit them directly upwards.

conclusion

i think i made this too long of an explenation. hopefully it makes sense.

 

[chris H]

this thread really helped me out man now my ike is so good now hahahahaha

 

[chris H]

if you want to play me

 

[Adapt]

if you are still updating this: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=178317

(ZSS attack statistics including kill percentage on mario in the middle of FD)