Kid Icarus rep. necessary?

[TheLightningGamer]

Hi guys! This is my first thread, so I hope it doesn't it get deleted instantly.

So, as we all know Palutena has been revealed for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS, but there's a question sticking out in my mind. Is a new Kid Icarus character needed? I mean we hadn't seen Pit for almost 22 years before Brawl, and there wasn't a game for 25 years. Some might say that because Sakurai worked on Uprising, he should/would want to put in a character from that franchise. That's not really the case, since he didn't put Dedede is Melee, even though it was from one of his own series. So, here's my question to you? Did Palutena really deserve a slot above other characters, and should Kid Icarus get another representative *cough cough Dark Pit cough cough*.

 

[Reila]

A second Kid Icarus rep was far more needed than even another Fire Emblem rep we are likely getting in Smash 4 (Chrom, eugh). Kid Icarus Uprising is a very popular game and the characters in said game are extremely charming. It is true that Kid Icarus was a dead franchise for a loooong time. Keyword: It was. You can bet they will make more Kid Icarus games after Uprising. So yes, to answer your question, I think a second Kid Icarus rep was necessary and I am very glad Palutena is playable in Smash 4. I do think a third rep isn't necessary, specially if said rep is Dark Pit, who is essentially a tryhard Pit.

I don't think Palutena took other character's slot because I don't believe in "slots", by the way. Still, I think there is a certain Nintendo franchise that is needing for a second rep far more than Kid Icarus and this franchise is called Metroid. No, Zero Suit Samus isn't a second rep, she still is Samus. If there isn't a second rep for Metroid in Smash 4, I confess I will be very disappointed (but still happy for Palutena ^^). Lastly, Sakurai didn't put Dedede in Melee, but in Brawl he put two, TWO Kirby reps at once.

 

[SpaceJell0]

Even though I didn't like how Palutena just flat out didn't care about Pit, I kinda like that about her if that makes any sense. She's like a happier Squidward in a way and is mischievous like most goddesses were in Greek mythos. And with the tease of Pittoo at the end I think we might get another semiclone from KI as a secret character. Hell, if KI:U wasn't so damn charming and had good characters I'd be pissed. I mean Star Fox had 3 reps, FE most likely will have 3, and Mother had 2 so why not treat KI the same way?

EDIT: now that I think about it, she actually did feel some sadness for Pit when his wings burned so she's not that bad :3 (even though it was her fault that happened )

 

[Glaciacott]

It's a tough question to answer without obvious bias, simply because I love Kid Icarus Uprising and I love Palutena.

I think more than anything it was a combination of factors. Sakurai made the game, and pretty much defined Palutena's personality himself. There's more of a desire to increase playable female characters due to Nintendo aiming for wider demographics, particularly female gamers. Uprising was the flagship title of the 3DS and was highly marketed, and even though it doesn't hit the numbers of Mario or DK it still sold rather well, and keeps on selling.
But really, Sakurai bias is the largest thing since he put Kid Icarus within the eight main franchises of Smash, if we go by that first trailer. So a second Kid Icarus rep, and specifically Palutena, was to be expected. Was it deserved? I think so. I think there's more merit in getting the main players of each franchise and new franchises before getting to tertiary characters in franchises already represented. And I think most people think similarly since we all ask for more Metroid and DK reps since they lack key components of their franchise, at least more than Mario or Zelda or Pokemon need another character. Lastly, Kid Icarus is about Pit and Palutena, with the name in Japanese being Palutena's Mirror, so it's a series that is best represented by both characters together.

Regarding the post above, a comment of clarification: Palutena does care about Pit. She just happens to have a troll-y relationship with him where she's more likely to show she cares by making fun of him, or in this case, sending him flying away so she can fight Link instead.

 

[Waluridleykryrool]

Depends, if you mean prior to palutena's announcement then yes uprising was an incredibly successful game that successfully revived an old franchise so a second character is an excellent move. If you mean a third rep then hell no, despite how sakurai has been displaying it kid icarus is not THAT huge of a franchise and two characters is perfect for the time being.

 

[SpaceJell0]

Depends, if you mean prior to palutena's announcement then yes uprising was an incredibly successful game that successfully revived an old franchise so a second character is an excellent move. If you mean a third rep then hell no, despite how sakurai has been displaying it kid icarus is not THAT huge of a franchise and two characters is perfect for the time being.

I dunno, there seems to be WAY too much KI atm. I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to include Dark Pit

 

[Mysteltainn]

If I'm understanding your question properly, you are wanting another Kid Icarus rep additional to Palutena??

Was Palutena deserving? Yep, she certainly was in my opinion. Highly requested, potential (and seems to be) unique, she's like the Zelda of the KI franchise as well in my opinion.

If you're asking do we need additional Kid Icarus reps, additional to Palutena, then no, not really; Kid Icarus made a great comeback. However, I think some other franchises such as Donkey Kong and Metroid deserve the love / development time.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I believe Palutena was necessary with Kid Icarus being one of the main 8 titles in the first trailer along with the fact that Sakurai created Kid Icarus Uprising, though a 3rd one would be pushing it too much. I still think Dark Pit is a tease for an alt costume for Pit.
Like WFT having a male version, Little Mac's Wireframe one, Villager's different looks with one being a female), one can argue that the uniqueness for Dark Pit is pretty much just using the different voice, and he'll have the red eyes and gold laurel this time instead of regular Pit eyes and black laurel.
I'm probably thinking there's gonna be more assist trophies than Magnus and Phosphora, but I don't think another playable character would be necessary. Alt costumes, maybe, but you get the idea.

 

[Louie G.]

Palutena is Kid Icarus's Zelda. Factor in the fact that KI has been completely rebuilt from scratch and Uprising was a huge success...

Yes, Palutena was necessary.
One of the most necessary additions of Smash 4.

 

[Critzilean]

I believe Palutena was necessary with Kid Icarus being one of the main 8 titles in the first trailer along with the fact that Sakurai created Kid Icarus Uprising, though a 3rd one would be pushing it too much. I still think Dark Pit is a tease for an alt costume for Pit.
Like WFT having a male version, Little Mac's Wireframe one, Villager's different looks with one being a female), one can argue that the uniqueness for Dark Pit is pretty much just using the different voice, and he'll have the red eyes and gold laurel this time instead of regular Pit eyes and black laurel.
I'm probably thinking there's gonna be more assist trophies than Magnus and Phosphora, but I don't think another playable character would be necessary. Alt costumes, maybe, but you get the idea.

I agree, Palutena was definitely needed in this game, I mean come on she was the only non-enemy NPC is Brawl's SSE, that's gotten mean something right?

Seems a bit strange to hype it up as an alternate costume though, unless it changes his abilities colors or something. I honestly think it has no meaning and isn't teasing anything

Also, slightly off topic, but when was Phosphora shown to be an AT?

 

[Admiral Pit]

I agree, Palutena was definitely needed in this game, I mean come on she was the only non-enemy NPC is Brawl's SSE, that's gotten mean something right?

Seems a bit strange to hype it up as an alternate costume though, unless it changes his abilities colors or something. I honestly think it has no meaning and isn't teasing anything

Also, slightly off topic, but when was Phosphora shown to be an AT?

Well I think the reason for potentially teasing Dark Pit as a costume is because of how extremely popular the black Pit costume in Brawl was, which was part of why Dark Pit was created for KI:U. At the same time, since said black Pit costume wasn't available in the demo most likely due to is popularity + potential Dark Pit tease, it would imply that maybe it's the alt costume for Pit indeed. Plus Sakurai still did create KI:U, so I'd expect him to bring out a few more Kid Icarus related surprises to us, with Dark Pit as an alt costume teased, just like how he teased Palutena (via Pseudo-Palutena as assist trophy) in the Smash direct in April.

I think on the Smash Bros. site, there was one pic of Palutena with Phosphora close by, which pretty much implies that she's an assist trophy, despite Sakurai showing her as a regular trophy, and I have no problems with her as an Assist Trophy... actually I'm glad she's one, to be in the game fighting somehow.

 

[mini paincakes]

I don't think it was necessary. But I do think it was a very good idea to have Palutena playable.
Kind of like how I feel about Snake in Brawl. He didn't need to be in the game, but he was a great addition nonetheless.

 

[TheLightningGamer]

Wow, over 11 replies in only a couple of hours! Thanks guys, I know it isn't much, but it is for a Smashboards Rookie like me.

As for my thoughts on the Goddess of Light, I think she was unnecessary. Don't get me wrong, I'm bursting with joy that she's in (I even started putting her in my roster after the direct). I just feel as though other series need representatives more than Kid Icarus. Yes, Pit was popular in Brawl, and yes, Kid Icarus Uprising did well, but it still a new rebirthed franchise. I'm going to use the Metroid effect here, in saying that Samus has been alone in every iteration of Smash, and still doesn't have a new character. Yeah yeah, Zero Suit Samus, that didn't count. Metroid has 12 games, and Kid Icarus has 3. So, I think series such as Metroid deserve more representation over Kid Icarus.

Sakurai's bias towards the series did help seeing as he worked on it, and it's his game so he could do what he wants. I knew from that first trailer that Kid Icarus was probably getting a new character. As far as Dark Pit, I wouldn't mind seeing him in, but that's WAY too many characters for such a small franchise! I love Palutena, not sure how deserving she is of that spot on the roster.

 

[Glaciacott]

Ok, I'm going to go ahead and say though that not a lot of returning franchises had a need for extra additions to be complete. If we get really picky, of course.

Frankly, to me only Metroid, Donkey Kong and Kid Icarus felt like they needed a new character to feel like they were completely represented. Ok, fine, I also feel the same way about Mother (I feel Porky is needed to complete that one), but with Itoi saying the franchise is dead I don't fight that fight too much.
And I'm also beginning to think you'd be swinging to a different tune if Ridley had been revealed before Palutena, and really, that's not fair because we could play that game: is Wii Fit Trainer more deserving than Ridley? Is Rosaluma more deserving than Ridley? And suddenly nothing will be good enough because they're not Ridley.
And why do people not count Zero Suit? Unique moveset, unique concept, has her own slot. It's like Sheik is very much a Zelda series rep.

But bottom line, if we go purist, to me a DK rep (pref. K. Rool although I wouldn't mind Dixie), Ridley and Palutena are the necessary additions for previously repped franchises, and the rest of the additions should be new ones: Shulk, Little Mac, Pac Man, Mega Man, Villager, etc.
All other franchises would be fine as they are, imo, if we were keeping things simple and small. Rosalina and Greninja are excellent additions, but those I would argue weren't necessary, just unexpected and awesome.

(that said, awesome unnecessary additions are awesome and I'm glad we don't have to be purists or we'd miss out on a lot of awesome characters.)

 

[Deathcarter]

Is Palutena necessary? No.

Is Palutena deserving? Heck yeah!

Even taking into account obvious Sakurai bias, Uprising was a wonderful game with a lot of love put into it and a lot of character for a Nintendo game with Palutena being one of the standouts. I don't see Palutena being in the game because KI needed a second rep, I see her being in the game because she's a great and popular character with plenty of Smash Bros potential who I feel has earned her spot much like Rosalina or Greninja have, not simply have it handed to them because of a quota.

Now is a third Kid Icarus character necessary or deserving? Not really. If Sakurai has admitted to focusing on putting in less newcomers, a second KI newcomer would be really unwarranted bias given the other series *coughDK&Metroidcough* who have characters worthy of inclusion.

 

[Banjodorf]

Honestly I feel she was entirely necessary. I think not having her wouldn't have represented her series' growth properly, nor Sakurai's connection to it. In addition, she's one of few characters important to their series who existed prior to 2000 who's been important lately. She's just a face we don't need to be missing, and the game would've felt lacking without her.

Plus, she's awesome. I'm glad she's here, for sure!

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Medusa! We need playable Medusa!

Pit
Palutena
Medusa

Best characters right there.

Plus medusa is a hot evil woman. Many straight guys love that and there would be so much Hentai of her lol

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'm a little confused by the question.

Was Palutena required? Honestly I'm not sure. She wasn't unneeded and the series is certainly more deserving of two characters than Mother was.

But if the question is do we require a third KI character then I'm flat out saying "no". At least on the initial roster. DLC? Fine; have Dark Pit, Medusa OR Hades But right now with all the Kid Icarus Uprising items, stages, and codecs(presuming they occur) I'd say Uprising is more than catered for.

If the series actually continues past Uprising, I'll be fine with a third rep in the next batch of Smash.

 

[andimidna]

Well you can't just ask two completely different questions for one poll.

Did Palutena really deserve a slot above other characters

The answer to this one is yes, she was one of the top 5 most requested newcomers, has proven to be a worthy addition with her varied movesets, and is overall just very iconic and deserving. That's why we all expected her-- there's no need to question it now, after it already happened.

and should Kid Icarus get another representative

The answer to this one is probably no.
While Kid Icarus does have other characters left that are a good fit for Smash, the series just isn't up to par with Kirby.
So as much as I want Medusa, no, I don't think it will happen.

*cough cough Dark Pit cough cough*.

And the answer to this part is please no.
If Sakurai really must add a 3rd one, Medusa all the way. Only after one of the 2 major villains should Dark Pit be considered.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

About a second Kid Icarus rep (named Palutena), I think it was 100% yes from the beginning.

Now, with all this KI content, I do hope for a third KI rep (named Medusa). But I don't think it's granted, nor necessary. I do have bias about it after all.

 

[NekuShikazu]

Not a fan of Dark Pit, I haven't played Kid Icarus for the 3DS yet and just assuming from his name, he sounds like a clone character. But I think two reps is fine for now.

 

[dezeray112]

I wouldn't mind.

 

[SpaceJell0]

If I'm understanding your question properly, you are wanting another Kid Icarus rep additional to Palutena??

Was Palutena deserving? Yep, she certainly was in my opinion. Highly requested, potential (and seems to be) unique, she's like the Zelda of the KI franchise as well in my opinion.

If you're asking do we need additional Kid Icarus reps, additional to Palutena, then no, not really; Kid Icarus made a great comeback. However, I think some other franchises such as Donkey Kong and Metroid deserve the love / development time.

I wasn't saying I want Pittoo, I'm saying Sakurai might actually put him in as a clone. We all know how he is with those :/

 

[TheLightningGamer]

Yeah, I really don't want Dark Pit, but if he's in I wouldn't be opposed to that. I was just suggesting him because of the end of the trailer.

 

[Hammer B]

Personally, I think that a second character from Kid Icarus wasn't necessary (I would have prefered a character from Donkey Kong or Metroid over Palutena, tbh). However, I don't mind getting reps from minor series like this one as long as they have an original moveset and cool design — something we can't say about the Star Fox and Mother guys, though. — (well, the latter is debatable, but you know what I mean)

 

[PlTe]

If it were up to me, Kid Icarus would have 10 f**king slots on the roster. But since that's never gonna happen, 2 is fine.

 

[smashingDoug]

remember kid icarus only has 3 games so 3 would be a little to much for such a small series

 

[SuperHyperMegaTurbo]

My own extremely biased opinion is that Palutena is neither needed or even deserving: as I see it, even though she is technically an old character from the original Kid Icarus, she didn't really exist as she is now until a very recently made game (completed exactly before this Smash's development began). While a major character in Kid Icarus: Uprising, which was admittedly quite popular, it still seems to me that the most likely reason Palutena got in was because Sakurai could not have been more aware of her than any other choices, really, and he seemed to get over the qualm he had of "over-representing his own series" (by avoiding adding Kirby characters in Melee) in Brawl, and how he's probably even encouraged to do so, considering how popular "his" characters are. It's almost like how I figure the major reason Snake got into Brawl because his creator was friends with Sakurai (another claim based on bias, I know).

This bias likely comes from disliking Palutena and specifically not wanting her in the game. I like Pit a lot, actually, but for some reason Palutena just annoys me. Yes, I've seen how the characters interact in Kid Icarus: Uprising, but it doesn't make me like them... unlike a lot of people, clearly. I guess I'm just annoyed that people who wanted Palutena got their wish when I don't feel it was deserved.

As for Dark Pit, I think his appearance probably indicates something special when it comes to Pit's palette swap for him, possibly with a changed voice and perhaps some different winning animations or something, but nothing else other than the coloring. I think him being another character entirely would be the first stupid addition to the character roster... yes, much as I dislike Palutena and Pac-Man, I don't think they were stupid decisions, just not really deserving in the former's case and an unpleasant bombing of my predictions in the latter's.

In conclusion and in my opinion, no, Kid Icarus should not have more representation, it should have less, and if it were to have more, I'm going to be rather annoyed.

 

[Maripu]

I think Kid Icarus has seen an uptick in notoriety ever since Pit's inclusion in Brawl and the new game releases. I think that given this newfound popularity it is fitting, but I honestly think the entire franchise has been forced upon consumers a bit. I don't really think anyone cared about Pit or Kid Icarus before he was announced for Brawl.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Two was justified. I would personally be happy with three, I really want Medusa and wouldn't mind Hades or Dark Pit, but it would be pretty messed up if we got 3 KI reps and Donkey Kong stayed at two and Mother and Star Fox lost reps.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

I see Dark Pit as a possible character alt for Pit not seperate character.
Pretty much he will have all of Pits moves. Only difference is his voice and appearance and attitude.

Pretty much like Lucina can be a character alt for Marth or chrom. That kinda thing.

 

[ChikoLad]

I still totally support Hades. Not gonna get my hopes up, but I would at least love him as a boss or as part of something similar to Snake's codecs.

 

[Bedoop]

she was one of the top 5 most requested newcomers

Probably because of A CERTAIN LEAK soaking in the spotlight even faster than Gematsu's Leak did.
And the former leak is even fake, of all things. The model is really different from the one we have now.
And although I do know of the entirety of KI:U, wasn't Magnus the "More Iconic" Fighter before that one leak sprang up? Ah well, I can't really complain. Magnus' an Assist Trophy and Palutena's playable, my argument's invalid, blah blah, cry some more. It's just my opinion.

 

[ChikoLad]

Probably because of A CERTAIN LEAK soaking in the spotlight even faster than Gematsu's Leak did.
And the former leak is even fake, of all things. The model is really different from the one we have now.
And although I do know of the entirety of KI:U, wasn't Magnus the "More Iconic" Fighter before that one leak sprang up? Ah well, I can't really complain. Magnus' an Assist Trophy and Palutena's playable, my argument's invalid, blah blah, cry some more. It's just my opinion.

The model isn't that different, and could be attributed to the leak being a prototype model. Many other characters look better now than in earlier screenshots (e.g. DK on 3DS).

 

[Nimbostratus]

I don't think a second KI rep was "necessary." I don't really think any possible additions are "necessary" at this point.
That being said, while not "necessary," I think Palutena was "warranted" as KI had a popular and relatively successful release, and the character herself had a good deal of popularity (really one of the few so far among hardcore fans). I don't feel that any more KI characters are "warranted" at this point until other series like DK have more representatives and KI has more entries into the series. I would be upset if Dark Pit was anything more than a glorified color palette.

Also, while the leaks didn't hurt, Palutena was still very popular before then.

 

[JCDied4U]

Let's just say that if we get a third KI rep, heads are going to roll and my respect for Sakurai will plummet.

 

[extremechiton]

in a perfect smash game, the only reps needed are the main characters from each franchise.
mainly:
mario (mario)
pikachu (pokemon)
kirby (kirby)
link (lotz)
samus (metroid)
pit (kid icarus)
donkey kong (dk)
marth (fire emblem)
g&w (g&w)
cpt falcon (f-zero)
ice climbers (ice climber)
little mac (punch out)
ness (mother/earthbound)
olimar (pikmin)
villager (animal crossing)
wii fit trainer (wii fit)
yoshi (yoshi's island)
fox (star fox)
wario (wario ware)

and no others.
any others are a welcome addition and will be exceedingly appreciated as long as they each have thier own unique moveset.

 

[Xavier :D]

Whoever questions Palutena's inclusion is just obeying Hades' orders

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think she deserved, we got many franchises with 3 games that still have one rep *cough* Pikmin *cough* and many others that have been since Smash 64 that are in dire need of a second rep *cough* Metroid *cough* What really makes me even more mad is that people are considering a 3rd KI rep

 

[Ragna22]

Here's the thing, since the beginning Sakurai has always been making some interesting decisions with Smash in terms of character inclusions, we've had Ness since the first game and Earthbound faded into obscurity for a while and Lucas got into Brawl along with Ness so if we can have two Mother characters, I don't see why two Kid Icarus characters is much different.

You can make the argument that Kid Icarus hasn't been around for a while before Brawl as opposed to Mother but Mother and Kid Icarus have one thing in common in Smash and it's that they were both obscure franchises before they were represented in Smash and hell Fire Emblem kinda falls into this too, before Smash unless you lived in Japan there's a high chance that you've never heard of it and the first time the series gets represented in Smash is of course Melee where they're represented by two characters in the franchises debute to Smash so all that said I see no reason why Kid Icarus shouldn't be allowed to have more than one rep in Smash.