Keyboard legality in console tourneys (POLL)..

[RickySSB]

Go keyboard <3
A Samus player will join.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Nintendude's KB samus too good

 

[Komotonoto]

If keyboard is legal, then more ppl play smash. END OF STORY.

 

[Sensei]

Me and cmu played smash in person and just tested his kb adatper today. We mapped the joystick input to the dpad on the n64 controller...
...
..
.
All I have to say is that falcon's combos don't work anymore... as long as dpad has 100% range...

We didn't test changing the range on the dpad to match the original n64 range, but I'm against allowing anything above the original n64 joystick range, which I think is 60%, in tournament...

Still needs more testing.

 

[cmu6eh]

The word sensei used was "evil". Mission accomplished. Delay is really low.

 

[cmu6eh]

The way the program works now you can set the max range. I will make it so a n64 controller can be set to 100% range then all is fair

 

[mixa]

nice. good stuff, man.

btw, shouldn't it be that the keyboard matches the max range of the n64 controller instead of the other way around?

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

should put it to the lowest you can without it not running so DI isn't ********

 

[cmu6eh]

The point is I can make di retarted for a n64 controller too. If you are up against a kb player I can give you 100% range also. Or I can give the kb player 60% whatever you want lol. But it comes with 1~3 farmes lag muahhhhaaaaa

 

[asianaussie]

range 100 and range 60 are pretty different in terms of stick jumping, messes up my DL and tent movement pretty badly

 

[Olikus]

Dont play god cmu. We might allow keyboards without many advantages. But dont mess with The 64 controller. Its way more sacred Than you.

 

[The Star King]

range 100 and range 60 are pretty different in terms of stick jumping, messes up my DL and tent movement pretty badly

Yeah it should be high enough for full height full hops. After some testing, the minimum on NRage 1.6 seems to be 63% range.

Sangoku says that won't affect DI though so I think you should have tested lower range :|

 

[Sangoku]

Yeah 63% is what I've been saying from the beginning. And I still don't understand how can DI be affected beyond that... And nobody has come up with any kind of proof (neither theoretical explanation nor concrete video).

 

[SheerMadness]

We need to clear up this range thing.

People keep claiming the higher the range the more broken the DI.

Sangoku has strongly maintained that is not the case after like 60%.

I don't know who's right. But we obviously need to figure it out.

 

[Sangoku]

The way I see it is the ones claiming >63% changes must provide some evidence. Either explaining in theory, or show a vid, or a lot of players intensively testing for weeks/months while playing saying if they see a difference (less reliable). I've already checked and it did not change. I don't know what other proof I can bring. If you guys want pics or vids I can provide them, but it would be useless since it will only highlight what I'm saying... Except if someone doesn't trust me lol.

 

[cmu6eh]

The way I see it is the ones claiming >63% changes must provide some evidence. Either explaining in theory, or show a vid, or a lot of players intensively testing for weeks/months while playing saying if they see a difference (less reliable). I've already checked and it did not change. I don't know what other proof I can bring. If you guys want pics or vids I can provide them, but it would be useless since it will only highlight what I'm saying... Except if someone doesn't trust me lol.

What was your method to test it?

 

[Sangoku]

Use Mupen. Perfectly slide DI a Kirby's Utilt with 80/128 and perfectly slide DI a Kirby's Utilt with 128/128. Compare the two pictures. The character is at the exact same spot.

 

[cmu6eh]

Use Mupen. Perfectly slide DI a Kirby's Utilt with 80/128 and perfectly slide DI a Kirby's Utilt with 128/128. Compare the two pictures. The character is at the exact same spot.

Did mash di into a red shell from the same frame, one to 60% , one to 63%, and the other to 100%.
63% di's as much as 100%
60% di's a significant amount less than them.

I then plugged in my controllers into my program to see what the ranges are. My best classic n6 controller gets about 61% in the x directions, 66% in the Y directions. One of my random hori's gets 80%+ all around. Moral of the story: If you want good DI on a classic n64 controller your gonna need a brand new one.

EDIT: sorry for doubting you sangoku

 

[RockinRudy]

If keyboard is legal, then more ppl play smash. END OF STORY.

Then teach them to play the proper way?​

 

[Cobrevolution]

Then teach them to play the proper way?

what is the "proper way"?​

all the regular game settings were decided by the community. timed games exist, as do random stage selection and items. you have to unlock the ability to turn items off. i used a superpad 64 for a while.​

the "proper way" according to us isn't necessarily "proper".​

 

[cmu6eh]

Dont play god cmu. We might allow keyboards without many advantages. But dont mess with The 64 controller. Its way more sacred Than you.

nope playing god sounds like fun

 

[Kefit]

Guess I should actually comment in this thread.

I am categorically opposed to any input method that converts analog player input (control stick) to digital player input (keyboard keys). The fully digital nature of keyboad input makes it incomparable to any kind of traditional N64 control method. This should be enough to prohibit keyboards on principle. Keyboard DI shenanigans, an unintended effect of replacing relatively sluggish (but precise) analog input with rapid (but imprecise) digital input, is one example of why we should not allow this control conversion.

I am theoretically fine with allowing an Xbox controller so long as people who understand this game at a high enough level confirm that a convertor is calibrated well enough to make the Xbox analog stick comparable to the N64 stick. Sensei is certainly qualified to do this. The fact that the convertor introduces input lag is a problem in principle, but perhaps overlookable since input lag is a 100% negative effect and doesn't impact the other player in any way. However, I reserve the right to call fraud on any player using an adapter to use an Xbox controller.

 

[rustyw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ailrrlo--18&t=38s

 

[Sensei]

This is related to the adapter Karajan made. I've spoken with some melee / brawl players about the possibility of hooking up a gamecube controller to n64 and map the smash attacks to the c-stick with a macro to simulate the c-stick in those games, and they all loved the idea and said they would start playing and entering ssb64 tournaments. There has be some talk about not allowing macros to be used, but we should make an exception in this case to basically allow a larger base of player to join the ssb community. I'm actually really excited if SSB becomes even more mainstream and hype because of this.

 

[Battlecow]

Still against a C-stick macro

 

[mixa]

Besides, is C-stick really the hold up for Melee and Barlw players?

 

[Sensei]

Is analog stick a hold up for kb players?

 

[mixa]

I won't play that game with you.

But contratz on 2nd.

 

[Cobrevolution]

i highly doubt the inability to cstick smash is the reason melee/brawl players don't play 64.

take stricnyne, for instance. at the last yestercades tourney he entered and then withdrew cuz he didn't like how people could combo you to death (or something to that effect). i'm sure other players would hate the slower pace (when compared to m/b) as well.

 

[Battlecow]

slower compared to brawl? lol

 

[Cobrevolution]

to be fair i have never watched a competitive brawl match, but when i played it i found the gameplay to be very fast and too hectic for me. there was always a bunch of **** going on in the fg and bg. shrug.

 

[jimmyjoe]

wouldn't a c-stick macro allow for really easy fastfall U-Airs and platform drop U-airs, as well as easily being able to move in one direction while attack in any other?

 

[Cobrevolution]

i did not think about that. that is a good point. it would take away the error of pivot fsmash becoming a pivot dash attack or for a platdrop becoming a platroll.

 

[asianaussie]

c-stick is the first thing any melee player complains about when playing 64 on vc

 

[SheerMadness]

Gotta draw the line somewhere. This is quite the slippery slope were treading.

No macros. No c-sticks.

 

[The Star King]

lol are you guys serious

no macros

 

[SpiderMad]

lack of C-stick is stopping me from playing 64, If I play 64 online with a GC controller: how do i make a macro for my C-stick to make it function like one. I mean I think it'd need a macro for like "C-stick left" = "Attack+Left direction"?

 

[asianaussie]

if you learned to z-cancel, you can learn to manually use aerials and smashes

if you're a brawl player nvm

 

[SpiderMad]

No dude I hate it, I can't comprehend how people function playing Melee without C-sticking their aerials and yet having momentum control. Ya sure there ain't a Macro that works for while playing online?

 

[The Star King]

Nobody should give you a macro. Learn to overcome it the way others have. It's not that bad when you get used to it.