The Solid Snake for Smash DLC thread! Such a lust for Smash news....WHOOOOOOOO?

[Deleted member]

Besides. The Fire Emblem characters are almost if not just as "unfitting" as Snake is. Doesn't seem to make sense for rather ordinary sword-wielding anime characters to be in with the cartoony cast.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'm upset that he was actually made into a clone. No, I don't care if he was originally an alt that was made into a clone; he should have stayed an alt. There's no reason to keep him anything but (unless it's to bring back Pit's Brawl specials like Doctor and Mario, which I could tolerate).

It makes absolutely no difference whether they made him a clone or left him an alt.

Or is it really so upsetting that you have to select him from another spot on the roster instead of swapping Pit's costume?

 

[Quillion]

Anime: Japanese animation. A loanword from the Japanese word animeshon, which is itself a loaned from the English word "animation".

Are the Fire Emblem characters animated and not live-action? Yes. Are they animated in a Japanese style? Yes.

And yes. I do use anime to refer to Japanese video games sometimes, considering that many Japanese video games take some tropes from anime.

It makes absolutely no difference whether they made him a clone or left him an alt.

Or is it really so upsetting that you have to select him from another spot on the roster instead of swapping Pit's costume?

It's just the fact he's functionally a different character, if just barely.

Also (this may be a bit unrelated) even if Dark Pit and the others remained alts, it would just reveal that Sakurai's selection of potential alts was limited. Where's Daisy for Peach? Where's Blood Falcon for Captain Falcon? Where's Dry Bowser for Bowser? Where's OoT and/or SS Zelda for Zelda? Where's Galacta Knight for Meta Knight? Where's Pseudo Palutena for Palutena (okay at this point I'm stretching)?

He should have committed fully to the idea or not committed. Not give us a very limited selection mainly consisting of alts from recent games.

 

[Deleted member]

Anime: Japanese animation. A loanword from the Japanese word animeshon, which is itself a loaned from the English word "animation".

Are the Fire Emblem characters animated and not live-action? Yes. Are they animated in a Japanese style? Yes.

And yes. I do use anime to refer to Japanese video games sometimes, considering that many Japanese video games take some tropes from anime.

By that logic, every character in Smash is "anime".

 

[Xzsmmc]

By that logic, every character in Smash is "anime".

Except Diddy Kong.

 

[Deleted member]

Except Diddy Kong.

Damn, that is correct.
Forgot Rare made Diddy for a second there.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I'm sure this is what most people mean by "not fitting in":

Snake's appearance in Brawl should have opened the floodgates for his stuff to come onto Nintendo consoles. Sure, not the Wii because of its lack of power, but the Wii U would have been just fine since most developers are still working on the PS3 and 360 in addition to the PS4 and ONE.

And Konami hasn't taken advantage of that massive new playerbase at all. Here's a video that goes into more detail:

Besides. The Fire Emblem characters are almost if not just as "unfitting" as Snake is. Doesn't seem to make sense for rather ordinary sword-wielding anime characters to be in with the cartoony cast.

Snake for not being a Nintendo Character or not fitting with "the history" along with other thoughts is a very common feeling for a lot of the community. Which is why you don't see anything about not fitting in agaisn't fire emblem characters and such. Now I agree. MGS should around more considering it's a Multi-Platform franchise now. I can't get on them about support for the wiiu considering no one really is messing with it. But then you have stuff like Metal Gear Solid on GBC you could put up on VC as at least something but nope.

 

[Quillion]

Snake for not being a Nintendo Character or not fitting with "the history" along with other thoughts is a very common feeling for a lot of the community. Which is why you don't see anything about not fitting in agaisn't fire emblem characters and such. Now I agree. MGS should around more considering it's a Multi-Platform franchise now. I can't get on them about support for the wiiu considering no one really is messing with it. But then you have stuff like Metal Gear Solid on GBC you could put up on VC as at least something but nope.

Well, I want Snake to fit in. I know that he doesn't "fit in" now, but that shouldn't preclude the possibility of not fitting in in the future.

Unfortunately, Konami certainly thinks it does.

 

[JamesDNaux]

It's just the fact he's functionally a different character, if just barely.

Also (this may be a bit unrelated) even if Dark Pit and the others remained alts, it would just reveal that Sakurai's selection of potential alts was limited. Where's Daisy for Peach? Where's Blood Falcon for Captain Falcon? Where's Dry Bowser for Bowser? Where's OoT and/or SS Zelda for Zelda? Where's Galacta Knight for Meta Knight? Where's Pseudo Palutena for Palutena (okay at this point I'm stretching)?

He should have committed fully to the idea or not committed. Not give us a very limited selection mainly consisting of alts from recent games.

Peach has a Daisy recolour, Falcon has a Blood recolour (different design on his back and everything), he probably never thought of Dry Bowser, and Galacta Knight has a lance and a shield, which would make him being an alt impossible.

Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf would have been perfect for OoT alts, but who knows why they never got them.

The only character I can really get mad about over alts is Little Mac. Was a full set of wire frame alts really necessary? Why on earth does he have sixteen costumes while Wario, who already had full sets of costumes in Brawl, got reduced to four of each costume? Why did Olimar lose two of his costumes to make room for Alph? It doesn't make any sense at all.

As for most other characters, there really isn't much you can do by way of alts.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Peach has a Daisy recolour, Falcon has a Blood recolour (different design on his back and everything), he probably never thought of Dry Bowser, and Galacta Knight has a lance and a shield, which would make him being an alt impossible.

Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf would have been perfect for OoT alts, but who knows why they never got them.

The only character I can really get mad about over alts is Little Mac. Was a full set of wire frame alts really necessary? Why on earth does he have sixteen costumes while Wario, who already had full sets of costumes in Brawl, got reduced to four of each costume? Why did Olimar lose two of his costumes to make room for Alph? It doesn't make any sense at all.

As for most other characters, there really isn't much you can do by way of alts.

I don't have the exact answer to that, but Sakurai is also biased towards Miyamoto's stuff too. Notice how he pointed out that Miyamoto drew the original sketch for Little Mac in the first Punch-Out!! For arcade. Another explanation is that he could have been planned as a clone (?) and Sakurai found it unnecessary, that's just speculation on my part though.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Another explanation is that he could have been planned as a clone (?) and Sakurai found it unnecessary, that's just speculation on my part though.

That... kind of makes sense. Maybe Wireframe Mac would have been the fourth clone after Dark Pit, or maybe Sakurai had to chose one over the other and found Dark Pit to be less redundant. I imagine Wire Mac would be even less unique in comparison.

Though that actually made me think of a point as to why the clones being separated is a good thing. If Wario and Olimar are of any indication, had Lucina, Doc, and Dark Pit not made the jump to clones, Marth, Mario, and Pit would be short four alt colours.

I imagine more people would complain about that than them being clones. Or is that just me?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

That... kind of makes sense. Maybe Wireframe Mac would have been the fourth clone after Dark Pit, or maybe Sakurai had to chose one over the other and found Dark Pit to be less redundant. I imagine Wire Mac would be even less unique in comparison.

Though that actually made me think of a point as to why the clones being separated is a good thing. If Wario and Olimar are of any indication, had Lucina, Doc, and Dark Pit not made the jump to clones, Marth, Mario, and Pit would be short four alt colours.

I imagine more people would complain about that than them being clones. Or is that just me?

Personally, I love the clones (with one exception of course). Dr. Mario hit me right in the nostalgia and I love how he plays compared to mario (Plus coat physics = best thing). Lucina was incredible as people found her to be impossible and was doomed to be a Alt. plus some of her animations are a little different from Marth's so you can tell Sakurai put some love into her. And last and least, Dark Pit, now let me get something out of the way, I was actually hyped for Dark Pit as the rumours floating around during the leak stated that he had Pit's Brawl moveset, which I personally loved. But lo and behold, the unfathomable similarities between the two made it seem like the single worst character in Smash besides Pichu. At first I though "Oh that's cool Sakurai's just trying to get Sora Ltd. into the character credits," but that didn't even happen so color me upset when I found out that he was in and Snake was out.

 

[cmbsfm]

The U does not require unique software. Nintendo even released a statement saying that developers don't have to use the GamePad if they don't want to (and now I can't even find the source).

The GamePad had the entire "classic" layout built into it just in case developers didn't want to use it, so it's the developers' fault if they're using it as a lame excuse.

If a 3rd party developer doesn't use the gamepad, then I don't see the point of buying the wii u version. It'll be inferior to the other 8th gen versions, and won't have an abundance of players on MGO like last gen. The only reason someone would buy it is if they don't own another platform. But those people are a minority. Not saying I don't want phantom pain on wii u, I do, but I know why these 3rd parties skip the wii u.

Would people buy the phantom pain on wii u? Would it sell well? Would it make enough money for konami for them to consider bringing it over? You could say they could do a cheap 360 port, but would that be even worth buying? These cheap ports often have missing features, so they can try to make as much profit as possible from it. You could say "Well, don't gimp it", but is it really worth putting effort into the port when it probably might not sell well. I heard bayonetta 2 didn't do to well, so that certainly doesn't help.

Well, I want Snake to fit in. I know that he doesn't "fit in" now, but that shouldn't preclude the possibility of not fitting in in the future.

Unfortunately, Konami certainly thinks it does.

supporting the wii u with retail games =\= fitting in
By this logic Megaman shouldnt fit in due to capcom's lack of wii u support.

 

[Quillion]

If a 3rd party developer doesn't use the gamepad, then I don't see the point of buying the wii u version. It'll be inferior to the other 8th gen versions, and won't have an abundance of players on MGO like last gen. The only reason someone would buy it is if they don't own another platform. But those people are a minority. Not saying I don't want phantom pain on wii u, I do, but I know why these 3rd parties skip the wii u.

Would people buy the phantom pain on wii u? Would it sell well? Would it make enough money for konami for them to consider bringing it over? You could say they could do a cheap 360 port, but would that be even worth buying? These cheap ports often have missing features, so they can try to make as much profit as possible from it. You could say "Well, don't gimp it", but is it really worth putting effort into the port when it probably might not sell well. I heard bayonetta 2 didn't do to well, so that certainly doesn't help.




supporting the wii u with retail games =\= fitting in
By this logic Megaman shouldnt fit in due to capcom's lack of wii u support.

Brawl introduced a great many Nintendo fans to Metal Gear, and it was one of the Wii's best-selling games. With that publicity, a lot of Smash players would eagerly buy a Metal Gear game for the Wii U.

Peach has a Daisy recolour, Falcon has a Blood recolour (different design on his back and everything), he probably never thought of Dry Bowser, and Galacta Knight has a lance and a shield, which would make him being an alt impossible.

Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf would have been perfect for OoT alts, but who knows why they never got them.

The only character I can really get mad about over alts is Little Mac. Was a full set of wire frame alts really necessary? Why on earth does he have sixteen costumes while Wario, who already had full sets of costumes in Brawl, got reduced to four of each costume? Why did Olimar lose two of his costumes to make room for Alph? It doesn't make any sense at all.

As for most other characters, there really isn't much you can do by way of alts.

Yeah but if Dark Pit and Lucina remained alts, they would have had completely different voices and models. The Daisy palette for Peach is nothing but a lazy palette, and Falcon's Blood reclor doesn't even give him the skull crest on his helmet nor the insane smile that Blood always has.

He either should have gave us everything or gave us nothing.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Brawl introduced a great many Nintendo fans to Metal Gear, and it was one of the Wii's best-selling games. With that publicity, a lot of Smash players would eagerly buy a Metal Gear game for the Wii U.



Yeah but if Dark Pit and Lucina remained alts, they would have had completely different voices and models. The Daisy palette for Peach is nothing but a lazy palette, and Falcon's Blood reclor doesn't even give him the skull crest on his helmet nor the insane smile that Blood always has.

He either should have gave us everything or gave us nothing.

Still, MGS3D wasn't a success...

 

[Quillion]

Still, MGS3D wasn't a success...

It was released just after the HD collection, which was also on the Vita, which really didn't help.

 

[cmbsfm]

Brawl introduced a great many Nintendo fans to Metal Gear, and it was one of the Wii's best-selling games. With that publicity, a lot of Smash players would eagerly buy a Metal Gear game for the Wii U.

I think a metal gear game would sell. My original post stated that he wanted to do an exclusive, and I think more Nintendo fans would buy the exclusive over a multiplat.
But how many of those people who bought brawl and were introduced to snake own a wii u though? I mean, the game sold 30 million, and only 9 million own a wii u.

It was released just after the HD collection, which was also on the Vita, which really didn't help.

But yet more people bought the angry birds trilogy, which you could get for free on smart phones?

For reference:
Snake Eate: .32m
Angry Birds: .56m

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think a metal gear game would sell. My original post stated that he wanted to do an exclusive, and I think more Nintendo fans would buy the exclusive over a multiplat.
But how many of those people who bought brawl and were introduced to snake own a wii u though? I mean, the game sold 30 million, and only 9 million own a wii u.


But yet more people bought the angry birds trilogy, which you could get for free on smart phones?

For reference:
Snake Eate: .32m
Angry Birds: .56m

The fact that the game didn't sell well was Konami's fault they announced the MGS collection Directly before the game was released. Let's face it I'm sure every one of us here have a PS or XBox along with a Nintendo console, so it's only logical to get the better deal. It's not the consumers fault it's Konami's.

 

[Ekans647]

@ Quillion I have to agree. I hope they introduce more alts as DLC.

I ****ing hate my alerts. Constantly never informing me. You have one job.

 

[Megadoomer]

The fact that the game didn't sell well was Konami's fault they announced the MGS collection Directly before the game was released. Let's face it I'm sure every one of us here have a PS or XBox along with a Nintendo console, so it's only logical to get the better deal. It's not the consumers fault it's Konami's.

I definitely have to agree with this. It completely undermined the 3DS version of Snake Eater by having a collection of five games (including Snake Eater) for the same price as one that came out at around the same time.

 

[cmbsfm]

The fact that the game didn't sell well was Konami's fault they announced the MGS collection Directly before the game was released. Let's face it I'm sure every one of us here have a PS or XBox along with a Nintendo console, so it's only logical to get the better deal. It's not the consumers fault it's Konami's.

True. I'm not denying a metal gear game would sell well on 3ds, if they decide to release another one that isnt a remaster like snake eater but rather a full remake like twin snakes or a new game, it would sell really well. It is the 3ds after all. I just have my doubts when it comes to wii u, though.

 

[MDAVE]

"Just make a Mii that looks like Snake and make it a Mii Gunner. " - Sakurai, probably. Though, you could just put a Snake in his boot and he still wouldn't put him in Smash. (Okay, I'm done now.) Yes I know it's a matter of third party.

No really. I'd freak out if Snake DLC would be a thing. Mewtwo DLC is one thing, but Snake is just such a great character with great potential.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Yeah but if Dark Pit and Lucina remained alts, they would have had completely different voices and models.

No, it was mentioned before that the alt costumes were to have different voices and everything. Models are a given, as they are alternate costumes. Literally the only reason they became clones was because something in their movesets changed.

He either should have gave us everything or gave us nothing.

Oh yeah. They also shouldn't have even bothered making a new game if they were cutting characters. All or nothing right?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

No, it was mentioned before that the alt costumes were to have different voices and everything. Models are a given, as they are alternate costumes. Literally the only reason they became clones was because something in their movesets changed.

Oh yeah. They also shouldn't have even bothered making a new game if they were cutting characters. All or nothing right?

It does bug me that if the game would have had one more year of development it would have been a whole ton better. For instance if it was released this year, 2015, we could have had Ice Climbers back thanks to the New 3DS. We probably also wouldn't have had Wolf and Lucas cut, and maybe, just maybe not Snake, thanks to more times for licensing agreements.

 

[Quillion]

True. I'm not denying a metal gear game would sell well on 3ds, if they decide to release another one that isnt a remaster like snake eater but rather a full remake like twin snakes or a new game, it would sell really well. It is the 3ds after all. I just have my doubts when it comes to wii u, though.

Slap a remaster of Twin Snakes onto the HD collection, and you're good.

 

[cmbsfm]

Slap a remaster of Twin Snakes onto the HD collection, and you're good.

Yeah that would be a good incentive for people to jump into the collection again, maybe snake eater 3d in HD too(Need crouch walking). Nintendo just has to approach konami.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah that would be a good incentive for people to jump into the collection again, maybe snake eater 3d in HD too(Need crouch walking). Nintendo just has to approach konami.

I'm awaiting E3, I believe Nintendo is going all out this E3, so many unconfirmed games and so many we know so little about. I hope they have a proper stage showing, Smash tournament, and awesome booths. I have a feeling this is going to be a big year for Nintendo.

 

[Quillion]

Yeah that would be a good incentive for people to jump into the collection again, maybe snake eater 3d in HD too(Need crouch walking). Nintendo just has to approach konami.

The only real concern I have is that Silicon Knights kicked the bucket. I'm worried that Konami may not have the master code considering Twin Snakes wasn't too successful, being a GCN game.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The only real concern I have is that Silicon Knights kicked the bucket. I'm worried that Konami may not have the master code considering Twin Snakes wasn't too successful, being a GCN game.

It did well enough to make it into the player's choice on the GameCube.

 

[cmbsfm]

The only real concern I have is that Silicon Knights kicked the bucket. I'm worried that Konami may not have the master code considering Twin Snakes wasn't too successful, being a GCN game.

I think it broke around half a million, I guess it's not too shabby. Doesn't Nintendo have some rights to Twin Snakes? After all, Silicon Knights was under their roof for the time, and the Eternal Darkness property ended up being owned by Nintendo.
I think Twin Snakes would come to the eshop if gamecube games hit the VC. I'd buy twin snakes in a heart beat.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think it broke around half a million, I guess it's not too shabby. Doesn't Nintendo have some rights to Twin Snakes? After all, Silicon Knights was under their roof for the time, and the Eternal Darkness property ended up being owned by Nintendo.
I think Twin Snakes would come to the eshop if gamecube games hit the VC. I'd buy twin snakes in a heart beat.

If I'm not mistaken, it is co-owned by Nintendo and Konami.

 

[_Magus_]

Snake/Big Boss? Heck yeah. But idk if the wii u could handle 8 snakes with all their explosives AND a massive stage. Imagine it trying to handle all items on high frequency with 8 snakes and their explosives. :\

Plus, since MGSV is going to be on Xbone and PS4, Idk if nintendo would want to promo their competitors like that.

 

[chuckthesmashlover]

Snake/Big Boss? Heck yeah. But idk if the wii u could handle 8 snakes with all their explosives AND a massive stage. Imagine it trying to handle all items on high frequency with 8 snakes and their explosives. :\

Plus, since MGSV is going to be on Xbone and PS4, Idk if nintendo would want to promo their competitors like that.

I don't see how handling 8 Snakes would be much harder than handling 8 Duck Hunts. As for MGSV not being on Wii U, MGSIV wasn't on Wii, but we still got Snake in Brawl.

 

[Megadoomer]

Snake/Big Boss? Heck yeah. But idk if the wii u could handle 8 snakes with all their explosives AND a massive stage. Imagine it trying to handle all items on high frequency with 8 snakes and their explosives. :\

Plus, since MGSV is going to be on Xbone and PS4, Idk if nintendo would want to promo their competitors like that.

Didn't stop them for Smash Bros. Brawl, when MGS4 was coming out exclusively for the PS3. Besides, I don't recall Snake's explosives creating any lag or slowdown in Brawl.

 

[_Magus_]

I don't see how handling 8 Snakes would be much harder than handling 8 Duck Hunts. As for MGSV not being on Wii U, MGSIV wasn't on Wii, but we still got Snake in Brawl.

Yeah, but that was when the Wii was the clear winner of that console generation. Both the wii and the ds were printing money, so they didn't have to worry about promoting their competitors. In fact, ps3 was the third place console of that gen, so it was a safe move. You didn't see any characters from xbox franchises in brawl, did you? But now that the console war is close, nintendo probably wouldn't want to risk giving anything to their competitors.

 

[_Magus_]

Didn't stop them for Smash Bros. Brawl. Besides, I don't recall Snake's explosives creating any lag or slowdown in Brawl.

But there were only four, and the stages were tiny compared to the Great Cave Offensive. Like I said, imagine the wii u having to load the GCO, 8 snakes and their explosives, and all items on high frequency.You have to think about every possibility. If a combination like that isn't technically possible, it'll keep a character out of a game.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Besides. The Fire Emblem characters are almost if not just as "unfitting" as Snake is. Doesn't seem to make sense for rather ordinary sword-wielding anime characters to be in with the cartoony cast.

Samus, Falcon & the LOZ characters (besides Toon Link) don't particularly "fit in" either according to anti-Snake peoples' logic.

& a little goofy conspiracy theory I thought of: MGSV was at MS's 2013 conference, then it was at Sony's 2014 conference....does that mean it's time for it to show up at Nintendo's event this year? <_<

 

[Golden Sun]

Man.. I really hope they add Snake, he has a low chance due to how the game is rated E while brawl was T and more kids are now playing SSB4

 

[Nonno Umby]

I don't think that 8 Snake is a big problem. It can handle without lags 8 Rosalina with Lumas or 8 Olimar. Also they could just change some of his moves (maybe one granade for time), or just left him out that secondary mode, but I really can't see them cutting an entirely character for that reason. It's like they would cut Wolf and Jigglypuff form Brawl because they couldn't find a way to put them in Subspace Emissary...

 

[LIQUID12A]

You didn't see any characters from xbox franchises in brawl, did you? But now that the console war is close, nintendo probably wouldn't want to risk giving anything to their competitors.

The Xbox and Xbox 360 had dismal sales figures in Japan. Keiji Inafune has suggested that consumer nationalism played a role in Japan's rejection of the Xbox brand (its rivals, the PlayStation 3 and the Wii, were both made by domestic companies).

What sounds more likely:

Adding a character from a successful third party game, from a console made in the same country of origin, Japan, and whose respective directors for each game(Masahiro Sakurai and Hideo Kojima) are very good friends().

Adding a character from a successful third party game, from a console that was not only doing poorly in Japan, but is a gateway to genres that are seen as niche(wholly first person shooters, for example, so no Metal Gear game counts despite having the feature, more Call Of Duty-esque games), AND was widely rejected in the same country(Master Chief, for example)?

I'll let you decide, since I assume you might as well have known your facts before suggesting that frigging Xbox characters ever stood a chance of making it in.

Oh, and for the record, Sakurai could care less for console wars, so bringing them up is pointless.

“Let me begin by saying that I don’t care for faction wars like Nintendo versus SCEJA. PlayStation 4 is good-looking, the DualShock 4 is light and using it feels good, Remote Play can reliably handle even action games, and the network functionality is well done. The machine power is another attractive factor, there is no loss of detail in the image, and it looks so natural and spontaneous that you often forget that you’re playing a game.

It’s a good thing if creators can make stylish games without putting in a ton of time on that. I hope that a masterpiece will come with bells tolling. This is definitely not a period that will leave us without the possibility of playing rich games.”