Ken Jumps Into Battle! - Ryu Doubles Potential Discussion

[ZeroSnipist]

So, someone asked the people over at the Roy boards to join in this little discussion, and I would be willing.

From what I know of Ryu and Roy both as characters, their playstyles are very similar - KO the opponent with lots of quick combos. I don't think two characters of a similar playstyle can work very well on a team due to the synergy just not being there. I think of it this way - a Pokemon team with six 'mons dedicated to attacking with the same stat is going to fail, but one with variety and synergy will succeed. There's probably tons of other examples. I just don't see the synergy being there with Ryu and Roy. I can see their play-styles clashing and resulting in chaos. I'm not too knowledgeable on Ryu, but if he doesn't have any moves that are safe on shield, that's another reason Roy wouldn't be a good partner. He has none. I'm sure there are some interesting things you can do, such as lock someone with the sour spot of Roy's B-air and use Ryu's Up-B for the K.O. I don't see this team working too well in my opinion though, but if anyone can point out something I missed go ahead. And sorry if I'm wrong about anything, I'm just trying to help as much as I can with the knowledge that I have currently. I'm kind of new to competitive Smash and just want to put my two cents into the discussion. :D

Thanks for coming by and commenting.
I have to agree with what you said, sadly this team will probably not work well. I like what you mentioned about bair setups. Not much else I can say since I haven't messed with Roy in doubles.
From the very little experience I have of him in doubles I can say that Roy really struggles in doubles and really needs the best possible partner to play successfully in doubles.
That's how it seems to me and I could be completely wrong. Don't hold it against me.

 

[⑨ball]

To keep it simple, there's a surprising amount of synergy between these two. They both setup for each other very nicely with WFT's easy access to footstools, Ryu's simple nair locks, the ability to capitalize immensely off of each others jab combos, throwing/volleying to each other for massive damage/kills and in general just covering each other well due to having similar gameplans with very different styles. It'd be a team worth looking into if the competent player base for each wasn't so low. If nothing else they'll make a neat duo for combo vids.

Something silly I found experimenting last night -- Ryu.fair>fair>[DeepBreathing]WFT.nair>nair>header>Ryu.TrueSRK. 9 hits, 108%, training mode 3DS, killed Sheik at 5% lol.

 

[Lizard_Buttock]

For ROB, you can't really get much out of this. I can't see much ways in which our movesets would really synergise, and gyros and lasers would really just interrupt combos. However, we can bait them into approaching, covering your main weakness, and control the stage with gyros, allowing you to breathe, so there is some merit in it. Offstage, ROB does pretty well, being able to attack out of Up-B, which covers a weakness of yours, but you're better off with a character that can utilise your crazy damage output. Ryu simply focuses too much on the ground to benefit from ROB's great control of the ground, and can really be hindered by that, unfortunately, and ROB can't do much with your massive damage thanks to Up-throw's killing power being nerfed.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Out of curiosity, what kind of "character archetype" are we talking about with Ryu to team up with? In the SF games, I guess he's meant to be a jack of all trades master of none but I know competitive players may be able to exploit things that the developers didn't intend to make him a different character entirely.

The only thing I can think of right now is Peach having an infinite supply of turnips that Ryu can also use to which everyone can respond with a hearty "duh!" The more I learn about Ryu the more I can figure out what other strategies my boyz can employ.

The other thing to consider is the diverse opinions on what sets the Miis can run based on tournament rulesets. I know I mentioned a lot of random characters as my "mains" but I've really been trying to experiment with as many Mii setups as possible (mainly Swordfighter but also played Brawler for a while) so I can be ready. Are you looking for 1111 default specifically or all over the board?

 

[ZeroSnipist]

McCloud action reporting in!

...I am theorycrafting, so don't take a lot of this to heart.

I think Fox+Ryu is a decent partnership but I wouldn't say it's amazing. Ryu's offense is stellar and his killing potential is amazing, whereas Fox has good combo capacity and dishes out good damage when he gets some of his wombos going. Fox plays very in-out and is a reasonably defensive character that focuses primarily on his insane mobility to weave into range. Both characters struggle against characters that hide in their shield (Fox legit has no kill throws and just a bad throw game overall), and both characters are susceptible to gimping. That being said, I would say in the advantageous position the two of them are likely stupidly good at keeping the advantage due to Ryu's bonkers combos, OoS Shoryuken, and how hard it is to hit Fox in the first place. Additionally, both rack damage quickly and have good kill setups (Fox has weaker kill options but has better setups as far as I know).

Because of the slow moving nature of Hadouken, I suppose they could do some fun cheese things with Fox's reflector as well.

I suppose them both having pressuring projectiles and Fox having a very reliable reflector to be a big plus as well. Another advantage is Fox's incredible speed and amazing frame data help him constantly pressure someone to stop them from "sneaking up" on Ryu. This is the advantage to having Fox as an ally, he basically has the best movement in the game because of his dash speed, attacking speed, initial dash, amazing aerial vertical speed and aerial acceleration. It allows him to tail people and prevent someone from juggling or edgeguarding his ally better than pretty much every character.

Just going with what I know of Fox in doubles (not a whole lot), Ryu seems like a capable partner of Fox's, but probably not your best wingman.

Welcome, and thanks for coming by.
I really like what you mentioned above and it seems that this won't be a bad pair.
One thing that should be noted is that the jab infinite can lead into a FA if at lower percents. From what you say Fox likes going in and out quickly which would mean Ryu racks up the damage and then Fox goes into setup for Ryu to kill or to get the kill himself. A combo that comes to mind is true shoryu(if it didn't kill) into Fox's uair. Overall might not be a bad team, it's just that Fox can't really zone with lasers and thus the team will be a more offensive team.

 

[Auramaniji]

You rang up the brawler fourms, so here I am.

I personally think that brawler is a bad choice for ryu, as he's more of character that would do just fine in a one on one environment. Sure he may have some quirks such as ryu's focus attack with an ultimate uppercut, but besides that brawler could end up hurting ryu in the long run.

 

[PapaJ]

You rang up the brawler fourms, so here I am.

I personally think that brawler is a bad choice for ryu, as he's more of character that would do just fine in a one on one environment. Sure he may have some quirks such as ryu's focus attack with an ultimate uppercut, but besides that brawler could end up hurting ryu in the long run.

Hmm, are you sure? If it's the smallest Mii Brawler with the custom move set 2122 you're speed and KO moves, helicopter kick and onslaught, would allow you to help KO the target if Ryu is unable to land his primary killing moves. Especially if we Dthrow an opponent a small mii could run in and helicopter kick them. Where as we would be unable to follow up with anything. Onslaught could be used to read a rolling opponent, which can stop most of Ryu's attacks due to the lack of a dual sided hitting move.

and because we do alot of damage per hit if the percent is high enough we could swap opponents if need be so you can land the KO move. ALthough I am not a master of mii brawler I have dabbled with him. This is also all based on the idea customs are legal. Also quick question if customs are not legal in a particular tourney do you have to use the default sized mii or can you still pick between the small one and the default one?

 

[Z1GMA]

I personally think he works better in 1on1, sort of like Ice Climbers.
A good partner would be someone that can help Ryu work alone, ironically enough.

 

[Auramaniji]

Hmm, are you sure? If it's the smallest Mii Brawler with the custom move set 2122 you're speed and KO moves, helicopter kick and onslaught, would allow you to help KO the target if Ryu is unable to land his primary killing moves. Especially if we Dthrow an opponent a small mii could run in and helicopter kick them. Where as we would be unable to follow up with anything. Onslaught could be used to read a rolling opponent, which can stop most of Ryu's attacks due to the lack of a dual sided hitting move.

and because we do alot of damage per hit if the percent is high enough we could swap opponents if need be so you can land the KO move. ALthough I am not a master of mii brawler I have dabbled with him. This is also all based on the idea customs are legal. Also quick question if customs are not legal in a particular tourney do you have to use the default sized mii or can you still pick between the small one and the default one?

If customs aren't legal they ether ban mii outright or you have to choose 1111 default size.
I see Ryu working with mii brawler with that size and set. (2122, Tiny) I'm not seeing other sizes and sets work out though, maybe it's just me being closed minded and not experimenting more.
I'll look into this team more in depth with other sets and sizes soon.

I personally think he works better in 1on1, sort of like Ice Climbers.
A good partner would be someone that can help Ryu work alone, ironically enough.

I never thought of it that way, but if that's the case then this team can work. I never thought mii would team with ryu oddly.

 

[DtJ S2n]

All of this is based on theory from a Wario main, but I also play Ryu as my third.

From a Wario perspective, I can see plenty of potential in a Wario + Ryu. Optimally, imo, Wario plays a very supportive role, staying to the air and using his mobility to poke and position opponents while staying safe. Ryu can control a section of the ground very well with his frame data and highly threatening moves, which naturally compliment's Wario's air camp tactics. Wario's biggest struggle in teams is a lack of kill moves onstage. Ryu has kill power in spades. Ryu doesn't have much of an edge-guarding presence, but that's okay because Wario would like to do that for you. If you're having trouble finding a spot to land or maybe getting edge-guarded yourself, Wario has the mobility and tools to help there too.

This team would also have some devastating team combos. Wario's d-throw could easily set-up for f-air which is huge damage at low %s, and u-air or b-air at higher %s which should be an easy kill combo. Wario's chomp should lead to f-air very easily as well, f-smash wouldn't be too hard to time/space either, and maybe Ryu could run up and true Shoryu them straight out of Wario's mouth? On the flipside, Wario is great at tacking on damage after his partner's combo has ended. Maybe Ryu's high hitlag would make it even easier for Wario to be in position.

The problem this team would face is teams that can bunker down and play very defensive. Like a team with a Luigi would be able to use fireballs to prevent Ryu from ever getting too close, and it's generally just too dangerous for Wario to try and jump in on a Luigi, especially when he has his partner nearby to save him. Wario and Ryu would be able to break open their defense, and separate them, but they definitely don't have any easy answer to approaching.

Overall I think Wario is one of the very best teams characters and Ryu compliments him very well. It'd definitely be worth trying out!

 

[MisterDom]

All of this is based on theory from a Wario main, but I also play Ryu as my third.

From a Wario perspective, I can see plenty of potential in a Wario + Ryu. Optimally, imo, Wario plays a very supportive role, staying to the air and using his mobility to poke and position opponents while staying safe. Ryu can control a section of the ground very well with his frame data and highly threatening moves, which naturally compliment's Wario's air camp tactics. Wario's biggest struggle in teams is a lack of kill moves onstage. Ryu has kill power in spades. Ryu doesn't have much of an edge-guarding presence, but that's okay because Wario would like to do that for you. If you're having trouble finding a spot to land or maybe getting edge-guarded yourself, Wario has the mobility and tools to help there too.

This team would also have some devastating team combos. Wario's d-throw could easily set-up for f-air which is huge damage at low %s, and u-air or b-air at higher %s which should be an easy kill combo. Wario's chomp should lead to f-air very easily as well, f-smash wouldn't be too hard to time/space either, and maybe Ryu could run up and true Shoryu them straight out of Wario's mouth? On the flipside, Wario is great at tacking on damage after his partner's combo has ended. Maybe Ryu's high hitlag would make it even easier for Wario to be in position.

The problem this team would face is teams that can bunker down and play very defensive. Like a team with a Luigi would be able to use fireballs to prevent Ryu from ever getting too close, and it's generally just too dangerous for Wario to try and jump in on a Luigi, especially when he has his partner nearby to save him. Wario and Ryu would be able to break open their defense, and separate them, but they definitely don't have any easy answer to approaching.

Overall I think Wario is one of the very best teams characters and Ryu compliments him very well. It'd definitely be worth trying out!

I don't know if this is true, but it also looks like footstooling after one of Wario's throws wouldn't be too hard, and then Wario could use a smash attack or continue the combo

 

[Deleted member]

I've teamed with a ryu before
TL/Ryu can work if TL stays back, plays support, holds stocks, and follows up where he can. He has to cover Ryu as much as possible. Ryu needs to be able to hold the front and be the kill potential in this. Also needs to be well aware of where projectiles are going and not run into them.
Usually I have Ryu stay close to the ground and I cover the air with an arrow or boomerang, and then help wherever he needs it. Since he has a projectile as well you can make a good wall off the bat. TL needs to help Ryu with recovery tho and Ryu needs to be able to get opponents off of TL. Overall I think it can be a good team if both players have good synergy. They both can followup and combo off each other pretty well though. Zair/bombs set up into alot of Ryus stuff and throws setup into TLs aerials pretty well.