Just a few AI fails

[KFrosty]

EDIT: Noticed some errors with the AI not listed in this topic, or just want to talk about it more? Post your comments here!

First off, I have been playing Roy almost exclusively, so that may be a factor. Secondly, He is awesome, and so is this game mod. And Lastly, I play level 9s whenever I'm not in classic mode (which I play on hard difficulty).

Ok so here we go.

The first one is simple. Whenever I play versus, the AI sometimes will be happy to try to run off the edge of the level (especially on a stage like Fourside or Jungle Japes) and will sometimes just kill themselves for little to no provocation.

Second, whenever I play against Mewtwo or Lucario (regardless if its 1v1 or free for all), They sometimes are happy just holding onto their charge B moves for way too long (to the point where they had it fully charged, a smash ball would spawn, and I would not only be able to get it without competition, but also use it on them without even a flinch)

Next, since I like using Roy almost exclusively, I learned that the AI will often run into range of his charging B without trying to dodge or block, and I am usually able to spam it until I can get a KO with a fully charged one (I even did this on event 40).

EDIT: Original last paragraph was removed, as it was intentional, not a bug. Ginge corrected me on that.

 

[W¡ndy]

Also, Olimar tends to just stand still and dodge when he runs out of (on lvl 9)

 

[KFrosty]

Also, on green hill zone, the AI will tend to kill itself more often, as if to say they think there is an invisible ledge just past the current map.

EDIT: fixed grammar

 

[NeonApophis]

A few other things I've noticed that would be good to fix:
Peach needs to dsmash much more. She almost never does it, and it's probably her best move. It would be especially amazing if she did FC aerials into dsmash or other things as pressure.
G&W needs to attack out of his up b.
Lucas needs to use his tether recovery. It would also be very cool if he used his magnet to recover, always charged his neutral b instead of taunting after KOing the opponent, always went for upthrow when it would kill, and used more magnet in his combos. All of these things are just nice possibilities, but the lack of tether recovery is pretty problematic since real players will use it all the time. Overall, I think Lucas's AI is excellent, but he is a pretty complex character, and it would be nice to add more tools as the AI is being improved.

All characters need to be better at teching. They hardly ever do it. Their DI is amazing though.

As others have pointed out, a lot of character seem really prone to suiciding in 3.0. I've seen Bowser up b from his respawn platform and go as far as possible in order to go off stage, miss the ledge, and SD.

No other suggestions come to my mind, and most of these issues are pretty minor, which is pretty amazing. PM has such good AI overall, far better than any official smash game. I imagine programming the AI to be this good is pretty difficult. It'll be really cool to see how much the AI progresses in terms of optimizing recovery, combos, and kill setups.

 

[Hark]

Another stone here, I noticed that AIs tend to just ... derp when you falcon punch out of the blank. Like stand still, falcon punch, the ai will rush towards you and start dashdancing around you doing nothing else, resulting in their death most of the times.

 

[KFrosty]

speaking of dash dancing, have you guys notice that the AI will sometimes just do that out of nowhere at random points? its not as often as the SDs for me, but I have started to notice it.

 

[Ginge]

Lastly, I havent played classic mode since I unlocked every character, but when I finally played it twice yesterday, I noticed that there is a match before the final boss(es) where it is supposed to be 1v3, but it act more like a freefor all and the AI constantly tries to KO eachother instead of me. This might just be a (minor) consequence to fixing the AI gang up.

That match up in vBrawl was a Free For All to start with. There was an event match that was 1v3, which you might be thinking of instead.

 

[Daftatt]

speaking of dash dancing, have you guys notice that the AI will sometimes just do that out of nowhere at random points? its not as often as the SDs for me, but I have started to notice it.

after peach throws me into the air she will dash dance like crazy staying perfectly under me at all times. She is a devil CPU.

 

[TheHauntedSkull]

... LOL xD
I haven't noticed ANY of these problems. It might just be because you're playing lvl9 cpu, or hard dif. As I said, LOL! I haven't noticed ANY of these problems! CPU lvl3 work just fine for me! (Actually, they sometimes act as if they're lvl9, that is also an issue, could the cpu leveling be backwards?)

... LOL

 

[Team Giza]

The AI on port 3 at level 9 almost always stands there and lets its shield break.

 

[Ginge]

The AI on port 3 at level 9 almost always stands there and lets its shield break.

Does that happen only when you 1v1 that AI in port 3? Cause I've never had a problem with 4-For-Alls with 3 level 9 AI's

 

[Sai_]

Please fix ******** suicidal CPUs pls.

 

[Mr.Random]

Please fix ******** suicidal CPUs pls.

lold

 

[TheHauntedSkull]

If you wanna fix them, play lvl 3s. They act exactly like lvl9s, trust me.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

When I use mario, I can spam pills/fireballs endlessly against any cpu character. They often sidestep or jump over the projectiles, but then they just dash in place right next to me, if I stand still and just spam b. Once I stop pressing b, they attack, but as long as I'm pressing b, they dash around me and do nothing. The only exception is that fox occasionally nairs.

 

[Sai_]

If you wanna fix them, play lvl 3s. They act exactly like lvl9s, trust me.

Well that sounds weird but I'll do that.

 

[Team Giza]

Does that happen only when you 1v1 that AI in port 3? Cause I've never had a problem with 4-For-Alls with 3 level 9 AI's

It happened for both. In 4-for-all CPUs it was less common but it would still occur at least once or twice a 4 stock match.

 

[Zzuxon]

Lvl 5 cpus are prone to dash-dancing around Ganondorf for no reason.

 

[Ginge]

If you wanna fix them, play lvl 3s. They act exactly like lvl9s, trust me.

I tried playing lvl 3s and they... they bad. Very bad. Like 4 stocking them while taking 0% damage bad. Level 9's are either AMAZING, or dumb as bricks, depending on what character they're using.

 

[KFrosty]

That match up in vBrawl was a Free For All to start with. There was an event match that was 1v3, which you might be thinking of instead.

Ah ok, thanks for the clarification

 

[Sai_]

Ah ok, thanks for the clarification

At the same time, AI in a free-for-all will target a human player most of the time; they all gang up on you until you die and then go into stupid-mode and kill them selves or pathetically fall of the stage. I hope they change how the AI targets things as well; I hate having all 3 AI against me only because I'm a human player.

 

[Ginge]

Now they hone in on any character with the most damage. The current AIs are bloody kill stealers.

 

[KFrosty]

Now they hone in on any character with the most damage. The current AIs are bloody kill stealers.

Seriously. It gets ridiculous to the point that they will kill themselves trying to get that point

 

[KFrosty]

Umm, I'm pretty sure there's only like 1 or 2 dudes working on CPUs....slow down with these crazy complaints

I love the game these guys have been making, and if shoddy AI is the worst this game has to offer, then it's ok in my book. Especially since you just know that eventually they will get it patched.

I only mentioned it because this is a bug reporting board, and AI randomly killing itself constitutes as such.

 

[jtm94]

I do agree the level of the CPU is negligible most of the time unless under 3. They just have spurts of level 20 CPU then stop... The only things I wish the CPU didn't do is 1. airdodge ever. They airdodge if you apply ANY pressure towards them offstage and they SD. Maybe if there's a way to code wavedashing, but keep airdodge off somehow. And 2. Any time I just sit on a ledge the CPU will attack approximately once or twice, then try to hit me with their UpB.... Why the UpB? They just SD off the ledge. Lastly, they don't fully utilize their recovery like they did in 2.6b. Mario would cape, Marth side b etc.

I will say that onstage the CPUs of all caliber have some really impressive aggression/pressure, but they can't act well when offstage.

 

[KFrosty]

After playing enough though, I have started to notice a pattern with the AI suicides: they happen most often on the modded stages. While they still kill themselves on the regular stages, the frequency of their SDs increase on stages that drastically changed their sizes and shapes.

For example, the original version of Green Hill Zone had spanned from one side of the screen to the other, with an occasional random gap in the center while the new one is a stage similar to battlefield. While there is obviously no more stage on the left or right side of the field, the AI still seems to think there is, and will often try to "land" on tiles that were previously occupied and thus will either realize their mistake and try to return, or they try to just move farther, as they assume that maybe they just haven't quite reached the nonexistent floor.

Stages like Warioware or Lylat Cruise that have not been changed physically, or levels with screen spanning floor like Training Room and Shadow Moses seem to alleviate some of these bad AI issues. My only guess on how to fix this permanently is to change the AI coding on each stage, but I think that is effort best spent elsewhere.

 

[KFrosty]

I do agree the level of the CPU is negligible most of the time unless under 3. They just have spurts of level 20 CPU then stop... The only things I wish the CPU didn't do is 1. airdodge ever. They airdodge if you apply ANY pressure towards them offstage and they SD. Maybe if there's a way to code wavedashing, but keep airdodge off somehow. And 2. Any time I just sit on a ledge the CPU will attack approximately once or twice, then try to hit me with their UpB.... Why the UpB? They just SD off the ledge. Lastly, they don't fully utilize their recovery like they did in 2.6b. Mario would cape, Marth side b etc.

I will say that onstage the CPUs of all caliber have some really impressive aggression/pressure, but they can't act well when offstage.

I feel it's OK for them to air dodge (as it is a key strategy for any player to do so). They just need to learn that air dodges should not be used in the same vein as they were in brawl.

 

[Daftatt]

Pretty much every AI's response (maybe except spacies) when you are on ledge is to constantly up-special. It's really weird and often gets them killed as in the case of captain falcon or peach. Why would they up-B on the edge? Unless they are link or something. Check it out.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

One of the IC's killed the other!

Can we make them not airdodge anymore like at all,even if they don't WD it is till better than suicide.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Well the first thing i noticed (and chuckled at|) was that the Cpu's sometimes pull of some crazy combo's, and then other times they just stand there. Their such fascinating creatures really

 

[Kaeldiar]

I've noticed that the AI's in P:M are much better than in any other game, but then will randomly do something stupid and self-destruct.

 

[wiiztec]

Ever seen anything like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oaHxy53Ng0&feature=youtu.be

 

[Daftatt]

Ever seen anything like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oaHxy53Ng0&feature=youtu.be

D3's hitbox on that move makes the AI think there is a wall in front of them, so they just stand there until something changes, for example, when you move.

 

[Brownie_Takeshi]

brownie approves these issues

 

[The21stSmasher]

Wow, after reading those AI issues, I gotta say those Als need serious improvements. Hell, I seen ******** CPUs screw in battle ALOT. It's amusing sometimes, but get more annoying as I fight them often.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Wow, after reading those AI issues, I gotta say those Als need serious improvements. Hell, I seen ******** CPUs screw in battle ALOT. It's amusing sometimes, but get more annoying as I fight them often.

It is true that the AI isn`t the best but please remember that there is only one person working on the AI and AI programming is not something someone should be doing alone.

 

[The21stSmasher]

It is true that the AI isn`t the best but please remember that there is only one person working on the AI and AI programming is not something someone should be doing alone.

Wait a minute! Only one person is responsible for the AI programming?? Man that feels like a lot of work, especially the fact that he/she's dealing with a 41 character roster.

 

[AgentLym]

Hey, I don't know if anyone's mentioned this before, but a bug I've found playing against level 9 Lucas (I also play Lucas-- just to see how the cpu plays). As Lucas, whenever I grab onto the ledge with my grab-snake-whip and just hang there for a second, it's very likely that the enemy Lucas will run right to the edge of the stage, and promptly use his up-b to rocket himself off the edge to his untimely death. I've resorted to quickly getting back onstage and jabbing him out of his up-b to keep him from killing himself. I haven't played with any other characters that can grab the ledge with a whip (like Ivysaur or ZSS), but I assume that AI Lucas would still kill himself if I hung on the edge with those characters as well. I primarily play on Final Destination-- I don't think the stage has anything to do with it, but, just in case. I hope it's a quick-fix!