Junior and the Koopalings Game Play Discussion

[Exegguter]

So I went into the character a bit myself.

-Going through all the pages I'm amazed this hasn't been mentioned, but you can tilt his Fsmash just like his Ftilt. Tilted up seems the most reliable for hitting but any angle seems to be DIable out of
-At low percents you cab foot stool off a side B hit. Potential okizeme maybe, but I don't see any really practical uses.
-At high percents (130ish) can combo side B into the Up B hammer for an easy kill. I could get it to combo as low as 90%, but the timing is REALLY tight, not to mention the spacing. Doesn't kill at 90% either. May be easier with a second stick though
-This ones a bit bizarre. I tested just how the Up B clown car regen works

Off strong hits I would eventually be able to regenerate it by pressing A when I left hitstun. Off very weak hits, I'd just plummet to my death. Perhaps getting the car back depends on the hit you take while out of it?

If you get hit out of it even after using the hammer and you spam a, you won't be using hammer but regenerate the clown car. If I recall correctly, if you didn't use hammer; the clown car will automatically respawn.

Thanks for the fsmash tip!

I'm leaning towards the side that Jr. will deff. be low high tier in this game.. He's so good..

 

[Neo Zero]

Not true. When hit by moves like Smashes and strong tilts (from Sheik and Ike) you're able to regenerate it no matter what action you take (nothing, hammer or airdodge) once you're out of hitstun. When hit by something weak (a Sheik tilt or needles or w/e) you'll just plummet to your death, swinging the hammer hoping to be able to fly. Its really weird, which is why I said I think its either connected to hitstun, damage, knockback, or some weird fusion of the three. Time also seems to be part of it as @ ndayday said, but time doesn't seem to matter for those weak hits though. It's really weird

Other stuff I forgot
-A short hopped Fair (hit with both the aerial as well as well as the landing hitbox) combos into a grab or Ftilt as a true combo. Can get it to work until around 30%. May be possible to combo into Fsmash too, but doesn't seem plausible without a second stick
-Against large hitboxes you can hit Uair off Side B at even zero percent. Leads to some VERY good damage.
-As someone else said, you can combo into Up B off a Side B. However the timing is REALLY tough and I've never gotten the Side B and both hits of the Up B to be a true combo. Might depend of the hurtbox? Also if you do hit both hits of his Up B, its possible to combo into the swing as a true combo. Dat damage

-Here's something really cool if you wanna style a bit. For characters who aren't that big, you're able to combo into Uair at low percents. Side B>Hop>Fast Fall Uair (REALLY HARD TIMINING)>Sliding U Smash (also really hard) is a true combo. Ill have to test later how long you can do it and who it works on, but I was able to nail it as low as 10% for a sweet 29%

-Above is pretty much guranteed on fast fallers. Can work against slower callers who are more floaty but only at earlier percents and its MUCH tighter. Against floaty chars, no dice, but its easy to uair juggle them. Floaties are also basically immune to the Fair landing hitbox.

-Holding Up jumps the Side B even without tap jump. Just hold up and mash B to get as early an up B as possible, allowing the hammer to combo from it as low as 70ish% on a mid weight character. Vectoring can change this of course, but if you can land it the reward is well worth it.

 

[Exegguter]

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll test it later.

Same goes for the combos.

I'm iffy about the Fair stuff. Does it work on airborn opponents/lightweights?

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

After playing some Bowser Jr in tournament, I'm liking his regular car more than the drift one. It has a lot of kill power when spun out.
His Side B jump cancel mix ups are EXTREMELY real. Never sleep on this. The slight bounce back throws everyone off, and even allows you to manipulate around the platforms of BF/ Yoshis/Prisim.

 

[Neo Zero]

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll test it later.

Same goes for the combos.

I'm iffy about the Fair stuff. Does it work on airborn opponents/lightweights?

As I edited in, not really. It's pretty much fast faller (and probably heavys) tech only. Combos need more testing too. The Side B stuff is more consistent, but again you can't really go from, say Uair to Usmash on a floaty char like Jiggs or Rosalina, so you gotta go for Uair juggles instead. That's also the issue with the Fair, the Fair landing hitbox isn't the actual mace, but more like an invisible shockwave of it hitting the ground. Thus, if they're at all airborn it doesn't really work. If you ever hit WITH that hitbox raw though, as far as I can tell the follow ups I mentioned do combo (Ftilt for sure at least), but I need to do more playing around on this stuff with more characters, as most of what I tested was on my lunch break lol.

Also, Dair has a spike hitbox similar to other Multi hit moves. The problem with Jr's though, since it's his down air and the move sort of creates a hitbox eruption around him when he lands, getting the spike (and actually having it....well, spike) seems pretty much impossible. Maybe with a C stick you'll be able to control your aerial momentum enough to the point its feasible, but it's sadly pretty useless as far as I can tell, outside of being a decent chunk of damage if you nail it. It sucks too since we can combo into it at low percents off Side B, but alas, that's life for you.

 

[Exegguter]

Koopacar blocks our own mechakoopa without us taking damage. This is extremely usefull against Palutena since our car also goes trough her reflect. It's possible to bait oponents to use their reflect against the mechakoopa while walking behind the mechakoopa and punish them with the car (which is 20% damage most of the time).

This also applies for falco/ness' fsmash/Mario cape etc.

 

[Dooms]

I'm wondering what we're going to do about custom moves considering how likely it will be that they are legal.

How do you all feel about his custom moves so far? Are there any you would replace his regular moves with?

 

[Exegguter]

Man Mario and Rosalina are a hell yo play against. I'm losing 8/10 times.

Any advise you guys?

 

[MisterVisceral]

Man Mario and Rosalina are a hell yo play against. I'm losing 8/10 times.

Any advise you guys?

Mario's going to like to get close, so you want to let him do that a little bit and punish him with Dtilt, Ftilt and UpB

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Man Mario and Rosalina are a hell yo play against. I'm losing 8/10 times.

Any advise you guys?

Bowser Jr has amazing tilts which out beat Mario. Be wary about using your Down B AND Neutral B against these characters. Rosalina will just simply use gravity and auto-pick up your mech, Mario will turn it against you.

Side B is your hero, just respect Mario's UTilt.

 

[Exegguter]

Mario's going to like to get close, so you want to let him do that a little bit and punish him with Dtilt, Ftilt and UpB

Bowser Jr has amazing tilts which out beat Mario. Be wary about using your Down B AND Neutral B against these characters. Rosalina will just simply use gravity and auto-pick up your mech, Mario will turn it against you.

Side B is your hero, just respect Mario's UTilt.

Thanks you guys. I'll upload a match against him for feedback later.

 

[MisterVisceral]

I'm having trouble against Robin. His moves just get priority before mine and I can't land anything because of his wicked range.

 

[Lilfut]

I'm having trouble against Robin. His moves just get priority before mine and I can't land anything because of his wicked range.

I've found that, at least for Arcfire, it helps to learn/feel out how long the hitbox lasts and drive your car through exactly as it runs out. Catches the opponent off-guard and looks hella cool to boot.

Tip for fighting Palutena: Drop a Mecha Koopa, and then immediately use the car. Palutena will inevitably try to Reflect your Mecha Koopa, and won't have time to react to the car driving right through the Reflect.

 

[MisterVisceral]

I'd be a good idea to start gauging mecha's range on final destination. i.e. how long it goes before it explodes. That'll make setting up nice stuff easier

 

[Overmaster]

I'm getting the Side B cancel uair quite consistently against Kirby, so consider that a tested character. In fact, I find it quite easy. However, that DACUS you're pulling is next to impossible for me. To be fair, I've never actually done sliding Usmashes before at all... So you probably have some practice over it on me. Instead, I just use a regular dash attack that training still considers a true combo. Good enough for me!

 

[Neo Zero]

Oh you don't need to Dacus. Just a normal sliding Usmash will do. It may not work against someone floaty and small like Kirby though. You need to properly ascertain the range. Uair has to be hit as low to the ground and fast falled as possible. If they're in range for the Usmash after, it'll work as a true combo I gurantee. Its realy frame tight though (alternatively, you can hit Uair against some, maybe even all standing chars, by doing it low enough to the ground to do it that way. Overly risky, but Uair is low lag at the very least)

On the note of his customs

I personally feel Neutral 1 is best there, but the piercing cannon ball could be good in zoning match ups, especially Rosalina. For Side B, I'm not so sure there. Again, I like Side 1 since it controls the most fluidly imo, but Side 2's spin might be good pressure in the air, and Side 3 at least feels faster. For Up, I'm a fan of his Up 3 where the kart goes up and then he goes down, but 1 or 2 are likely better. Down for me goes to 3 though, having a Mechs Koopa you can easily grab and throw for 16% or w/e damage value it has in 4 directions is REALLY good, and it feels really powerful. You do lose the ground control though, but on some stages that didn't matter much anyway

 

[Overmaster]

Oh you don't need to Dacus. Just a normal sliding Usmash will do. It may not work against someone floaty and small like Kirby though. You need to properly ascertain the range. Uair has to be hit as low to the ground and fast falled as possible. If they're in range for the Usmash after, it'll work as a true combo I gurantee. Its realy frame tight though (alternatively, you can hit Uair against some, maybe even all standing chars, by doing it low enough to the ground to do it that way. Overly risky, but Uair is low lag at the very least)

On the note of his customs

I personally feel Neutral 1 is best there, but the piercing cannon ball could be good in zoning match ups, especially Rosalina. For Side B, I'm not so sure there. Again, I like Side 1 since it controls the most fluidly imo, but Side 2's spin might be good pressure in the air, and Side 3 at least feels faster. For Up, I'm a fan of his Up 3 where the kart goes up and then he goes down, but 1 or 2 are likely better. Down for me goes to 3 though, having a Mechs Koopa you can easily grab and throw for 16% or w/e damage value it has in 4 directions is REALLY good, and it feels really powerful. You do lose the ground control though, but on some stages that didn't matter much anyway

D-did you know I was actually using a dair during that entire session? Yes, I would clown car ram and go into the dair, not a fast fallen uair... Eep! The only reason I'm admitting this gaffe is so that no bad information is spread around. Clearly, I was testing nothing of your sort!

I wish For Glory allowed customs. Since that's what I'm getting most of my competition from so far, it's not worth my time to test custom moves. But that down 3 does look so cool!

 

[Neo Zero]

Who here likes REALLY hard links? I sure don't, but here's one anyway.

Its possible to combo from Utilt (fun fact btw,it misses a standing Greninja 90% of the time from the front, however you can hit it 4/5 times from his back. Those magical hurtboxes) into an Uair. It is however extraordinarily hard. As soon as you hit the Utilt, you basically have to be in the air for it to be a true combo. The reason its hard however is Jump Canceled Up Smash. Frame early, you do that and they can escape. Frame late, and its not a true combo (granted it'd be very hard to average person to escape it anyway).

Its actually possible (once I actually have this combo down, ill test it on a variety of characters, but I imagine it'd only never work on the floatiest of characters) to go Side B>FF Uair>Utilt>Uair>Uair (probably no second up air against floatier chars though). Like I said though, its brutally hard. In the last 40 minutes, I could only do it once (and just the Utilt to Uair raw which I was testing earlier I only got 3 out of an insane amount of times). It does like 40% though, and you'll look like a total boss doing it.

Also, wanna grab a Mecha Koopa and aren't be the ledge? Whatever shall I do? If you launch it from higher up and DI to the landing spot after its gotten its trajectory you can grab it pretty easily. Also something really nifty, you can actually grab the thing after it makes contact with your opponent but before it explodes. It'd be nice if we could lag cancel an aerial doing this by say, Mecha Koopa Hits>Fair comboing em and grabbing it>throw it, but sadly we cannot. Its still pretty nifty using the same Mecha Koopa for both stage control and for zoning after it hits though.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

One thing I've noticed that throws people off their game is Side-Bing off the stage. Now you if you're new to BJr why would you do this? Bowser junior actually hops a little bit after he runs off a ledge. He's still actually able to either jump cancel/spin out after this tiny hop off the ledge. It allows bowser junior to go quickly offstage around stage height and get either a fair/nair/uair gimp. Any of these moves after hit will give him enough movement and freedom to DI back to the stage and UpB to recover. I've even tried it with the spinout and it works too, just be very careful of your inputs!

 

[MisterVisceral]

One thing I've noticed that throws people off their game is Side-Bing off the stage. Now you if you're new to BJr why would you do this? Bowser junior actually hops a little bit after he runs off a ledge. He's still actually able to either jump cancel/spin out after this tiny hop off the ledge. It allows bowser junior to go quickly offstage around stage height and get either a fair/nair/uair gimp. Any of these moves after hit will give him enough movement and freedom to DI back to the stage and UpB to recover. I've even tried it with the spinout and it works too, just be very careful of your inputs!

Also be cautious of letting it linger too long. You've only got a couple sconds before you're too far to come back onstage.

 

[G-Guy]

I just faced a really good Sheik player, today. I did not get 2-stocked, but i was clearly outclassed. those needles stopped so many of my approaches, it's ridiculous.
Any advice against sheik-players who know what they are doing?

 

[Saltix]

How would you guys rate Bowser Jr as a character? I love the little guy and intended on maining him, but I'm just not convinced he's a good character... I've played him as a secondary to Rosalina lately, and it could be that I haven't figured out a playstyle with him yet but I just don't see him having many options or tools as compared to the other characters.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

How would you guys rate Bowser Jr as a character? I love the little guy and intended on maining him, but I'm just not convinced he's a good character... I've played him as a secondary to Rosalina lately, and it could be that I haven't figured out a playstyle with him yet but I just don't see him having many options or tools as compared to the other characters.

I honestly feel he's top of mid tier. Just enough tools to get up there but it's hard for him to deal with people right in his face. He does have some great Close moves like Ftilt/Utilt/Dtilt. He gets most of his kills either by gimping or Up B. Against character's with extreme recoveries (Rosalina, Lucario, Palutena, etc,,) Would be hard to kill. I'd put Pit/Dark Pit on there but their flights are just SUPER punishable and can be smacked pretty hard out of it.

 

[CarterParrish]

I wish For Glory allowed customs. Since that's what I'm getting most of my competition from so far, it's not worth my time to test custom moves. But that down 3 does look so cool!

True, I've been desperately hoping the Wii U version has an online mode with customs!

 

[IReidYou]

Was gonna come on here to mention the cannonball shot animation being able to snap on the ledge but it’s already covered so good stuff. Also learned a lot of stuff combo wise so thanks haha. Other things I can chip in on are if you up b from the bottom of the stage near the ledge, if you bypass the ledge by holding down Jr. should land and get into another clown car lag free. You basically have to touch the floor before he starts tumbling and you should be fine.

Another thing I wanna point out, albeit situational, is when the roaming mech koopa hits the enemy and props them up, you can catch it again and footstool them. I’ve been trying things like catch > footstool > down throw > fast fall > footstool > fast fall > x for the longest. Unfortunately nair doesn’t induce a jab lock unless I’m screwing up, and uair can’t seem to hit grounded people. So as of right now dair to follow up seems like the best bet.
To keep it simpler you can do catch > footstool > down throw > x. At lower percents dair to up smash nets around 32%, and if you just do catch > footstool, half the time up b connects which can lead to a hammer depending on where the car drops (35%).

It’s situational but it would be interesting to see how his footstool game off mechs can develop. If someone can get a jab lock off it just imagine the follow up side b shenanigans.

 

[Lilfut]

I haven't been able to really find a tactical use for it, but if you hit someone on the ground with your dair you can cancel it into your dtilt, and possibly other moves as well. It feels vaguely like a bug (since you cant cancel if you miss it), but I imagine it could cause some useful combos.

 

[ndayday]

The same thing can happen with fair with its second hit. It autocancels at that point so you can dtilt or ftilt and probably grab even now that I think about it? I usually just dtilt.

I'm going to have to try footstool stuff because that sounds awesome, I've only ever caught it off bounce like that once unintentionally...

 

[Lilfut]

It doesn't autocancel really, but if you use at least his dtilt it cancels. Might need to try other moves?

 

[PlasmaPuffball]

Do you guys have any advice against Rosalina? One of my friends mains her, and I always have a tough time whenever I use Jr. against him. I can't seem to approach safely with anything, some combos don't work against her because of how light and floaty she is, her Dthrow -> Fair is nearly guaranteed, her aerials always beat mine, Mechakoopas/Cannonballs are pretty much useless, and whenever I'm above her, I have a really hard time getting back to the ground. I can maybe upload a video of some matches for advice if you wanna see. I feel like she is one of his toughest matchups though, at least, for right now, since the game is still really young.

 

[ndayday]

It doesn't autocancel really, but if you use at least his dtilt it cancels. Might need to try other moves?

Are you sure? I'm almost positive it does, maybe you're getting an early hit of the second hit itself. Because yes, it can happen where the wreckingball kind of drops to the ground and you have to wait for the animation to finish.

alternatively I'm dumb

 

[cinderwild]

-Holding Up jumps the Side B even without tap jump. Just hold up and mash B to get as early an up B as possible, allowing the hammer to combo from it as low as 70ish% on a mid weight character. Vectoring can change this of course, but if you can land it the reward is well worth it.

I'm a little confused by this. When are you holding up?

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I just wanted to say, I found myself committed to using Bowser Jr as my official secondary character, I'm really liking him in this game.

As for Bowser, The so called Koopa King is dethroned, there is a new Koopa King or Queen if I'm playing as Wendy of course, mostly I use Ludwig.

I kind of had a feeling my secondary from Brawl, Zelda would be replaced, I didn't know who, I actually thought either Zero Suit Samus or Rosalina would be my new secondary, but nope, it turned out to be Bowser Jr, which I think he's better than both, I use Rosalina and Zero Suit Samus a lot, but they aren't nearly as good as Bowser Jr, The New King of Koopas.

 

[Prawn]

I posted a thread about this but, you can spike people who are recovering with get up attack off the ledge

Idk the conditions but I did it once last night.

 

[Conda]

I just wanted to say, I found myself committed to using Bowser Jr as my official secondary character, I'm really liking him in this game.

As for Bowser, The so called Koopa King is dethroned, there is a new Koopa King or Queen if I'm playing as Wendy of course, mostly I use Ludwig.

I kind of had a feeling my secondary from Brawl, Zelda would be replaced, I didn't know who, I actually thought either Zero Suit Samus or Rosalina would be my new secondary, but nope, it turned out to be Bowser Jr, which I think he's better than both, I use Rosalina and Zero Suit Samus a lot, but they aren't nearly as good as Bowser Jr, The New King of Koopas.

What are your reasons for thinking this? Definitely not the concensus.

 

[Krysco]

I see a bunch of people mentioning using down b near the ledge to grab it and I was going to mention an alternative but it's already been mentioned, short or full hopping and then using down b. That's my preferred method since I don't have to be facing a ledge and my opponent has to guess if I'll let it go towards them or if I'll grab it.

Another thing of interest I've found which may be useful for edge guarding is if you use up b below the ledge, the cart explodes prematurely since grabbing the ledge spawns a new cart. Don't know if that's been mentioned or not already, also can't really test if the hitbox is still there since the ai insists on recovering horizontally.

 

[Exegguter]

On Battlefield: If you charge cannon while you're on the bottom of the stage it looks like you will land on the platform above you but you won't. You will go trough the platform and land on the place where you jumped.

Look at: 00:52 and 2:24

Vs Charizard:

Pretty nice for mindgames

 

[Lilfut]

Has anyone found any use for Jr.'s throws? They seem like weak options at best in just about every situation.

 

[Exegguter]

Has anyone found any use for Jr.'s throws? They seem like weak options at best in just about every situation.

They are all pretty damageing. All do over 10% with 1 pummel except uthrow. That's enough for me. So I wouldn't skipp them.

Bthrow kills at 160% (??) and more.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Has anyone found any use for Jr.'s throws? They seem like weak options at best in just about every situation.

damage and srage control

 

[Prawn]

Uthrow -> upb aerial hit

Or

Uthrow -> BAIR seems to connect a lot for me. Not a true combo at all