Jungle Republic Mafia: To Clarify, the Werewolves Won The Game. Here Marks a New Age in Activity Reform.

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Alrighty gonna flip town.

Good luck town

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Final Votecount:

Red Ryu: 4 (Pythag, Maven89, KevinM, FrozenFlame)
Z25: 1 (Red Ryu)
Pythag: 1 (Rajam)

Not Voting: 2 (Z25, Raxxel)

Red Ryu has been lynched. It is revealed that they were a Vanilla Townie.

Night 3 begins now. Night 3 will end September 2nd at 5 PM EST, at which time Day 4 will begin.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

KevinM has been killed during the night. It is revealed that they were a Mafia Goon. The mafia have been vanquished.

Day 4 starts now. It will end on September 5th at 5 PM EST. With 6 alive, it takes 4 to reach hammer.

1. #HBC | FrozeηFlame
3. Rajam
4. Maven89
6. Pythag
7. Z25
11. Raxxel

 

[Raxxel]

Wow.

****, that Kev scum read I had in D2 was correct. That compensates for Red Ryu (sorry by the way buddy). Really surprised he was mafia too, given how he treated Lore I thought he definitely couldn't be mafia.

Dunno right now who I'm trusting, this went against my expectations.

 

[Z25]

Thank god. I don’t know who did that but your a bro.

Kevin scumness needed to be gone. Although who would logically do this? I honestly expected kevin as a WW

 

[Raxxel]

Thank god. I don’t know who did that but your a bro.

Kevin scumness needed to be gone. Although who would logically do this? I honestly expected kevin as a WW

Yeah he played a great distancing game with Lore, that's for sure.

You're off my scum list for now btw, partially because I am kinda wiping the slate anyway since this is a huge twist on what I expected. I gotta look back to how Kev interacted with others, see if there could possibly be any SvS scenarios.

 

[Pythag]

UtopianPoyzin shouldn't it read "hey, there's only one faction!" now or something?

Thank god. I don’t know who did that but your a bro.

I definitely feel this. We are at mylo though.

So I played the RR wrong. I apologize bro, I really thought I was on track.

There's still a chance that Kevin was scum hunting with regard to Z25.
Kevin couldn't didn't want just any lynch to go through, because he needed WW's killed.

I feel like my scum list has been blasted though, it really would be laughable if every person I've ever thought was town has been mafia. (save for Mac)

I had town readings on Tom, Lore, Maven, (and then later) - FF and Kevin.

I'm trying to think why Kevin would've been killed.

Was he actually on to something? Thinking we can nail Z25? Was he targeted because the WW's thought he would be a big swinging crank to lead town to victory? I don't think the WW would be that concerned with the Mafia, as they outnumber them.

There were a number of us town reading Kevin, were they trying to eliminate town?

 

[Rajam]

I'm here willing to reevaluate everything; I think we should entertain and analyze a bit the NKills:
- From kevin's pov, who was he pushing?
- Who would want Kevin dead?

frozen, maven (and z25 + raxxel if they want to voice in): what do you think of pythag's scumslip I found yesterDay? I feel like i found gold and no one is coming to share it

 

[Z25]

UtopianPoyzin shouldn't it read "hey, there's only one faction!" now or something?



I definitely feel this. We are at mylo though.

So I played the RR wrong. I apologize bro, I really thought I was on track.

There's still a chance that Kevin was scum hunting with regard to Z25.
Kevin couldn't didn't want just any lynch to go through, because he needed WW's killed.

I feel like my scum list has been blasted though, it really would be laughable if every person I've ever thought was town has been mafia. (save for Mac)

I had town readings on Tom, Lore, Maven, (and then later) - FF and Kevin.

I'm trying to think why Kevin would've been killed.

Was he actually on to something? Thinking we can nail Z25? Was he targeted because the WW's thought he would be a big swinging crank to lead town to victory? I don't think the WW would be that concerned with the Mafia, as they outnumber them.

There were a number of us town reading Kevin, were they trying to eliminate town?

MYLO is a problem now. I want to read rax more as town for leaning on Levin, but at the same if they are the WW they would obviously know who is or isn’t town. It’s a very strange situation we are in.

I'm here willing to reevaluate everything; I think we should entertain and analyze a bit the NKills:
- From kevin's pov, who was he pushing?
- Who would want Kevin dead?

frozen, maven (and z25 + raxxel if they want to voice in): what do you think of pythag's scumslip I found yesterDay? I feel like i found gold and no one is coming to share it

Can you repost it again, I read it yesterday but i don’t remember it word for word and I’d rather have it word by word for a proper look.

 

[Raxxel]

I'm not done reading yet, but I noticed something interesting about Kevin's distancing tactic. It seems while he was absolutely on the "hyper-lynch Lore" train, he never brought up reasons for it, never argued with Lore about it, and Lore never challenged it.

 

[Pythag]

MYLO is a problem now. I want to read rax more as town for leaning on Levin, but at the same if they are the WW they would obviously know who is or isn’t town. It’s a very strange situation we are in.

Can you repost it again, I read it yesterday but i don’t remember it word for word and I’d rather have it word by word for a proper look.

My original post :

Rajam
1. I prefaced that one argument with (this is wifom) because I want people to know that I'm aware when I'm extending beyond 'proof.'

2. I really wasn't concerned with Tom. I had a town read (or feel, if you prefer) and FF disagreeing with him completely, pinged me. Since FF had not been present at all, I wanted to see where his head was at. Maybe he had just slipped. Tom flipping scum, further proved to me that FF is probably town, as his post smelled more like a town post than a bus.

These are good questions, but I'm wondering why you didn't ask them...on the day of. Are you asking these with the knowledge of D2 yet?

Rajam's case :

Wait why Tom's flip makes FF town? Can't he be WW? Because you know he can't be WW?

Yo scumslip found

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin shouldn't it read "hey, there's only one faction!" now or something?

Potentially.

 

[Z25]

Potentially.

....

Utopia your a cool dude but I really hope that’s a joke, 3 factions in an open setup with one of them not known isn’t fair

 

[Pythag]

....

Utopia your a cool dude but I really hope that’s a joke, 3 factions in an open setup with one of them not known isn’t fair

I agree

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

....

Utopia your a cool dude but I really hope that’s a joke, 3 factions in an open setup with one of them not known isn’t fair

I agree

It's an open setup. There's town, mafia, and werewolves.

If I say the mafia are vanquished, then that means...

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Sorry, "Potentially" was a joke. Yes. With the mafia gone, only Town and Werewolves remain.

 

[Z25]

Sorry, "Potentially" was a joke. Yes. With the mafia gone, only Town and Werewolves remain.

That thread title and your post concerned me lol. I honesty wasn’t sure if something was amiss

 

[Pythag]

Yeah he played a great distancing game with Lore, that's for sure.

You're off my scum list for now btw, partially because I am kinda wiping the slate anyway since this is a huge twist on what I expected. I gotta look back to how Kev interacted with others, see if there could possibly be any SvS scenarios.

completely off the scum list?
Mafia still had to eliminate scum. If he knows he's the last mafia at that point, I think he's trying hard to get ww's.



#HBC | FrozeηFlame
Have I leapt to the top of your scumdar with the RR flips? What do you think of Z25 regarding Kevin's flip?

Z25 Why had you just checked out yesterday? Who do you think is scum?

Raxxel Where do we go from here? If you're convinced that Z25 isn't the play right now, what's your gut telling you?

 

[Pythag]

Gut reads pre-reread :

Rajam - I think this guy is town.

RR seemed to think that Rajam's big post / case was alright, and not even that, he thought it was really typical of Rajam. I would count that as RR seeing Rajam not as scummy, but rather behaving as 'usual.' Given RR's flip, I'm inclined to give this more weight.

Raxxel - can't shake the feelings like this guy is an earnest player. Though he hasn't been SO present. I don't like him saying Z25 has just fallen off of his scumdar right now

FF - I don't totally know what to make of what happened at the end of the day yesterDay. The confusion with if it was day end or not...that was just weird. Your posting has been good, but I can't help but think you may have pushed against me harder given you said that my case on RR was flimsy (either lowkey briliant, or a bus). Given RR's flip I'm re-evaluating things.

Maven - I guess I'm also weirded out by the interaction at the end of the day as well. You've also kinda just been on the outskirts it seems.

Z25 - I guess you're still at the top of my list because of how bad the situation was between kevin mac and you. Kevin flipping mafia doesn't exonerate you, in some ways it might make you look worse, given that he planning on pushing you through to a lynch toDay. Depending on how RR flipped.

Rajam

Raxxel

FF \
Maven | I think we're looking between these three for the WW team.
Z25 /

I'm going to do some rereading to see if I find anything that corroborates this

 

[Z25]

My original post :


Rajam's case :

completely off the scum list?
Mafia still had to eliminate scum. If he knows he's the last mafia at that point, I think he's trying hard to get ww's.



#HBC | FrozeηFlame
Have I leapt to the top of your scumdar with the RR flips? What do you think of Z25 regarding Kevin's flip?

Z25 Why had you just checked out yesterday? Who do you think is scum?

Raxxel Where do we go from here? If you're convinced that Z25 isn't the play right now, what's your gut telling you?

I’ve been trying to wrap my head around rajam’s statement.

By their logic you saying someone is town because of someone’s flip makes you scum.

Which I don’t get whatsoever. Having a stronger town read on someone because of a flip is just how this game works. Peoples actions and outlooks change based on each lynch.

So I don’t get it. Unless I’m missing something feel free to explain more Rajam

Pythag, what about FF do you like that makes him town after the Tom flip?

 

[Z25]

Gut reads pre-reread :

Rajam - I think this guy is town.

RR seemed to think that Rajam's big post / case was alright, and not even that, he thought it was really typical of Rajam. I would count that as RR seeing Rajam not as scummy, but rather behaving as 'usual.' Given RR's flip, I'm inclined to give this more weight.

Raxxel - can't shake the feelings like this guy is an earnest player. Though he hasn't been SO present. I don't like him saying Z25 has just fallen off of his scumdar right now

FF - I don't totally know what to make of what happened at the end of the day yesterDay. The confusion with if it was day end or not...that was just weird. Your posting has been good, but I can't help but think you may have pushed against me harder given you said that my case on RR was flimsy (either lowkey briliant, or a bus). Given RR's flip I'm re-evaluating things.

Maven - I guess I'm also weirded out by the interaction at the end of the day as well. You've also kinda just been on the outskirts it seems.

Z25 - I guess you're still at the top of my list because of how bad the situation was between kevin mac and you. Kevin flipping mafia doesn't exonerate you, in some ways it might make you look worse, given that he planning on pushing you through to a lynch toDay. Depending on how RR flipped.

Rajam

Raxxel

FF \
Maven | I think we're looking between these three for the WW team.
Z25 /

I'm going to do some rereading to see if I find anything that corroborates this

I get your point here,
However, I’ve been strongly against Kevin even before his push on me yesterday. If I was WW why would I waste the day killing anyone else but Kevin first? He had been trying to push a lynch for awhile, so why wouldn’t I have killed him sooner?

As for your other reads, I honestly agree that maven or FF should be the play today.

Maven’s play style and behavior has been something I don’t like compared to his other games.

My gut is giving me scum vibes from FF the same way I thought Kevin was scum

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Wow so kevin was ****ing scum afterall, I shouldnt stuck with my gut read from D1! Makes sense though, he was definity playing far more passive than town!Kev. Not sure what to make of him being the NK target though. This flip and RR flipping town has my ****in head spinning right now, definitely need to take a new approach to the WW pairing because clearly scum kev was blowing smoke up my ass validating my paranoia because it didnt include him as a target. Fml

Im super busy today sorry guys but I should have some some solid free time tomorrow evening to take a good look at everything and share my reassessment of the game. I honestly have no idea who the play should be right now and need to re-evaluate the whole game knowing the whole non WW scum team

 

[Raxxel]

completely off the scum list?
Mafia still had to eliminate scum. If he knows he's the last mafia at that point, I think he's trying hard to get ww's.



#HBC | FrozeηFlame
Have I leapt to the top of your scumdar with the RR flips? What do you think of Z25 regarding Kevin's flip?

Z25 Why had you just checked out yesterday? Who do you think is scum?

Raxxel Where do we go from here? If you're convinced that Z25 isn't the play right now, what's your gut telling you?

I can't scum read him with what I have right now. Kev flipping scum, and more importantly Ryu flipping town has thrown this game on the side of its head.

I agree about Maven being in the werepool, but I thought FF has been fairly town this game. Care to explain your reasoning or?

 

[Pythag]

I’ve been trying to wrap my head around rajam’s statement.

By their logic you saying someone is town because of someone’s flip makes you scum.

Which I don’t get whatsoever. Having a stronger town read on someone because of a flip is just how this game works. Peoples actions and outlooks change based on each lynch.

So I don’t get it. Unless I’m missing something feel free to explain more Rajam

Rajam's argument : (I hope i'm not compressing it too much for him)
The argument being that if I was a ww, I would know who the wws are.
Thus, I can easily state that FF is town, knowing that he's town, because I'm the ww.
By saying that I think he's town without offering consideration that he's ww, he believes I am a ww who scumslipped by 'admitting' FF is town.
at least that's my way of understanding it.

Pythag, what about FF do you like that makes him town after the Tom flip?

The interaction of D1 with FF's first post, FF was viewing the situation as opposite of Tom.
If I recall Tom viewed Mac as scum baiting town lore
FF viewed Mac as town and lore as scum.
YET, he still was townreading Tom, from what I recall.

That's a ping. That initially made him look good to me, and I didn't see anything that bad coming from his posts.

However, when he ISO'd me, he made the distinction that I've been consistently on RR, but that's about it.
I admit my read on RR was gut, and I've been shown I was wrong.

I think if FF really felt this way, he would've really rallied against me.
"Case is flimsy, but you're consistent. yeah, this lynch will tell me a lot"
Granted he's not hard reading town, in fact he kinda potentially set up some distancing stuff, as noted by his reaction when I listed my reads.
Also said he was iso'ing rr, but we never got to that
He's not my top read, but he's moved from being town into questionable.

Maven’s play style and behavior has been something I don’t like compared to his other games.

I've only played 2 games with maven. One he was super absent. How does he normally play?
What do you make of RR thinking he's town?

However, I’ve been strongly against Kevin even before his push on me yesterday. If I was WW why would I waste the day killing anyone else but Kevin first? He had been trying to push a lynch for awhile, so why wouldn’t I have killed him sooner?

I'll have to read to make sure this is true. Raxxel I think was also against Kevin, which bumps him up in my town read.

As far as why you'd go for him this late..it's wifom, but -



N1. (using RR's reasoning) Tom kill makes sense for Me and FF. I'm leaning on Rr's reasoning now that he has flipped town.
N2. Anyone would kill Mac. His death doesn't tell us much.
N3. prepare for processing :

N3 baffles me. RR, Raxxel and Z25 (I'm trusting Z25 was truthful with his case against Kevin rn I haven't re-read) were the only ones who expressed concern about Kevin.

Mac and I were both tentatively trusting him, but all my reads were dependent on him being town.

FF wasn't suspecting Kevin i think at all..
Rajam seems to be playing things by the numbers
Maven...Idk.

FF's defense could be - but I was townreading him, why would I go for him??
Maven - idk
Z25 - Kevin dead gets someone off your back who's swinging for you.

In thinking through this, I'm actually becoming more ok with Maven being a play, because I just don't freaking know.

Lyching him in other games has lost me the game before though, and we are at Mylo.

 

[Z25]

Rajam's argument : (I hope i'm not compressing it too much for him)
The argument being that if I was a ww, I would know who the wws are.
Thus, I can easily state that FF is town, knowing that he's town, because I'm the ww.
By saying that I think he's town without offering consideration that he's ww, he believes I am a ww who scumslipped by 'admitting' FF is town.
at least that's my way of understanding it.



The interaction of D1 with FF's first post, FF was viewing the situation as opposite of Tom.
If I recall Tom viewed Mac as scum baiting town lore
FF viewed Mac as town and lore as scum.
YET, he still was townreading Tom, from what I recall.

That's a ping. That initially made him look good to me, and I didn't see anything that bad coming from his posts.

However, when he ISO'd me, he made the distinction that I've been consistently on RR, but that's about it.
I admit my read on RR was gut, and I've been shown I was wrong.

I think if FF really felt this way, he would've really rallied against me.
"Case is flimsy, but you're consistent. yeah, this lynch will tell me a lot"
Granted he's not hard reading town, in fact he kinda potentially set up some distancing stuff, as noted by his reaction when I listed my reads.
Also said he was iso'ing rr, but we never got to that
He's not my top read, but he's moved from being town into questionable.



I've only played 2 games with maven. One he was super absent. How does he normally play?
What do you make of RR thinking he's town?


I'll have to read to make sure this is true. Raxxel I think was also against Kevin, which bumps him up in my town read.

As far as why you'd go for him this late..it's wifom, but -



N1. (using RR's reasoning) Tom kill makes sense for Me and FF. I'm leaning on Rr's reasoning now that he has flipped town.
N2. Anyone would kill Mac. His death doesn't tell us much.
N3. prepare for processing :

N3 baffles me. RR, Raxxel and Z25 (I'm trusting Z25 was truthful with his case against Kevin rn I haven't re-read) were the only ones who expressed concern about Kevin.

Mac and I were both tentatively trusting him, but all my reads were dependent on him being town.

FF wasn't suspecting Kevin i think at all..
Rajam seems to be playing things by the numbers
Maven...Idk.

FF's defense could be - but I was townreading him, why would I go for him??
Maven - idk
Z25 - Kevin dead gets someone off your back who's swinging for you.

In thinking through this, I'm actually becoming more ok with Maven being a play, because I just don't freaking know.

Lyching him in other games has lost me the game before though, and we are at Mylo.

If that’s rajam’s point ones kinda of a stretch tbh.

For example Kevin was fully positive Mac was town.

Yet I didn’t him get called out of that. Kinda of makes me thinking rajam was really stretching things to try and lynch you.

So I really don’t get their idea here and why they ignore people saying they fully read someone as town. Which ironic that they ignored Kevin who was scum.

 

[Pythag]

Maven89 what's the ww team?

 

[Rajam]

So, yesterDay I thought Pythag/Z25 was the WW and Maven the 3rd mafioso. Kevin's flip changes things a bit, because now at least one of Pythag/Z25/Maven has to be town

Also, I'm having double thoughts about pythag, because it's obvious from yesterDay I want him dead, but Kevin wasn't really concerned about pythag. My headache comes from my personal pov in which ww-pythag would've nkilled me instead of kevin. i know it's wifomy but it still holds merit imo. Why people ain't seeing the scumslip tho is beyond me. Problem is:
- pythag-raxxel would've killed me instead of kevin
- pythag-frozen can't be because pythag scum would imply the scumslip i found is 100% truth and therefore frozen would be confirmed town
- pythag-maven could be, but why would they nkill kevin over slots like frozen or me; kevin had pythag as not-a-priority, and kevin also wanted z25 dead the most

So, pythag scum => z25 scum. Ultimately, I want Z25 dying first toDay because he is still scummy and Kevin wanted him dead, which would justify his nkill. It's mostly Kevin's death which puts Z25 over Pythag toDay for me

 

[Z25]

So, yesterDay I thought Pythag/Z25 was the WW and Maven the 3rd mafioso. Kevin's flip changes things a bit, because now at least one of Pythag/Z25/Maven has to be town

Also, I'm having double thoughts about pythag, because it's obvious from yesterDay I want him dead, but Kevin wasn't really concerned about pythag. My headache comes from my personal pov in which ww-pythag would've nkilled me instead of kevin. i know it's wifomy but it still holds merit imo. Why people ain't seeing the scumslip tho is beyond me. Problem is:
- pythag-raxxel would've killed me instead of kevin
- pythag-frozen can't be because pythag scum would imply the scumslip i found is 100% truth and therefore frozen would be confirmed town
- pythag-maven could be, but why would they nkill kevin over slots like frozen or me; kevin had pythag as not-a-priority, and kevin also wanted z25 dead the most

So, pythag scum => z25 scum. Ultimately, I want Z25 dying first toDay because he is still scummy and Kevin wanted him dead, which would justify his nkill. It's mostly Kevin's death which puts Z25 over Pythag toDay for me

How do you feel about FF? Any other re reads you have now?

 

[Maven89]

To answer Rajam's question, I feel your example of a scum slip was rather weak, since Pythag was speaking about who was scum based off the NK.

Pythag can you reformat your response to Rajam's claim of finding a scum slip? I can't understand the post you had made.

I think Rajam's analysis aren't great, his read on me comes off like trying to force a round peg into a square hole, but his scum hunting comes off legitimate.

Pythag and Frozen are both nulls still, I don't recall either doing anything towny.

Z25 I'm actually considering a slight town read, his reaction to nearly being lynched came off genuine and town based. I'm thinking he just reacts badly to wagons on him.

So I'm consdering WW to be between Rajam, Pythag and Frozen. If the game had to end with me picking 2 people to die right now, it'd be Pythag/Frozen.

 

[Pythag]

Maven89 which response? The immediate one? Or the posts I have made today?

 

[Z25]

That reminds me,

So, yesterDay I thought Pythag/Z25 was the WW and Maven the 3rd mafioso. Kevin's flip changes things a bit, because now at least one of Pythag/Z25/Maven has to be town

Also, I'm having double thoughts about pythag, because it's obvious from yesterDay I want him dead, but Kevin wasn't really concerned about pythag. My headache comes from my personal pov in which ww-pythag would've nkilled me instead of kevin. i know it's wifomy but it still holds merit imo. Why people ain't seeing the scumslip tho is beyond me. Problem is:
- pythag-raxxel would've killed me instead of kevin
- pythag-frozen can't be because pythag scum would imply the scumslip i found is 100% truth and therefore frozen would be confirmed town
- pythag-maven could be, but why would they nkill kevin over slots like frozen or me; kevin had pythag as not-a-priority, and kevin also wanted z25 dead the most

So, pythag scum => z25 scum. Ultimately, I want Z25 dying first toDay because he is still scummy and Kevin wanted him dead, which would justify his nkill. It's mostly Kevin's death which puts Z25 over Pythag toDay for me

You didn't answer the question I posed earlier

Please explain why you think that's a scum slip on Py's part in more detail.

 

[Rajam]

Here's the full exchange along with reasons:

Pythag :
Your question directed at frozen at the end of your #255 was good, but why didn't you asked Tom the same?

Rajam I really wasn't concerned with Tom. I had a town read (or feel, if you prefer) and FF disagreeing with him completely, pinged me. Since FF had not been present at all, I wanted to see where his head was at. Maybe he had just slipped. Tom flipping scum, further proved to me that FF is probably town, as his post smelled more like a town post than a bus.

Wait why Tom's flip makes FF town? Can't he be WW? Because you know he can't be WW?

Yo scumslip found

Tom flipped anti town
FF was posting opposite views as tom
I already said FF didn't read like a bus.
FF posts seem very town.
I think that FF is town because of this.

Can you demonstrate why you think FF is WW/Mafia?

If not, why am I scummy for having the same conclusion as you?

I don't believe you were so sold on frozen being town that you completely dismissed the chance he could be WW. I mean we're D3 now and still can't dismiss that chance. I legit believe you scum slipped

I can demonstrate frozen can be scum: frozen/kevin, frozen/ryu, frozen/raxxel are completely possible, but actually it doesn't have anything to do with the point, being the point that you should've considered frozen could still be ww if you were town

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Votecount:

Not Voting: 6 (FrozenFlame, Rajam, Maven89, Pythag, Z25, Raxxel)

Prodding #HBC | FrozeηFlame and Raxxel who have not posted in 24 hours.

Unofficially prodding Rajam , Maven89 , Pythag , and Z25 , who have not posted in almost 24 hours.



The day is scheduled to end tomorrow at 5 PM EST. However, you have until the deadline to vote for a 24 hour Day Extension in which you can make up for inactivity.

 

[Z25]

Wow no one has posted in awhile, but the direct hype makes sense.

Might be a good idea for an extension vote actually.

Vote: day extension

 

[Raxxel]

Vote: Day Extension

 

[Rajam]

vote: Day Extension

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

1 more vote until a majority is reached for a Day Extension.

Keep in mind that extending the day isn't an excuse to not play the game.

 

[Pythag]

Vote day extension

Sorry guys, things have been real crazy the past few days. Was also waiting to hear from maven. I’ll try to get and post more tomorrow

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Day 4 ends on September 6th at 5 PM EST.

Please just try to stay somewhat active for the time being.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

thank you for the option to deadline extend, this is ****ing mylo and I'm getting ****ing drowned with **** to do at work right now so I'll take all the time I can get

Vote: Deadline extension

There's still a chance that Kevin was scum hunting with regard to Z25.
Kevin couldn't didn't want just any lynch to go through, because he needed WW's killed.

I feel like my scum list has been blasted though, it really would be laughable if every person I've ever thought was town has been mafia. (save for Mac)

I had town readings on Tom, Lore, Maven, (and then later) - FF and Kevin.

I'm trying to think why Kevin would've been killed.

Was he actually on to something? Thinking we can nail Z25? Was he targeted because the WW's thought he would be a big swinging crank to lead town to victory? I don't think the WW would be that concerned with the Mafia, as they outnumber them.

There were a number of us town reading Kevin, were they trying to eliminate town?

agreed that even though it was scum!Kev he definitely could have been on to something. Funnily enough, my theory right now is that kevin was strating to play more like his town self after tom died and he saw the writing on the wall for lore. I think he mustve realized his only strategy was just to be as pro-town as possible but just enough so that he wouldnt pull an NK since he was his team's anchor. It makes sense giving that he was really not exactly spearheading wagons but rather pushing more popular ones as a good advocate but never the face of the movement so to speak. I think he wanted to legitimately scum hunt and get massive town cred for nailing WWs and then ride that cred to endgame but without being perceived as "team leader" who would eat the WW bullet immediately if he started running train on them and didn't even try to hide the fact that he was the driving force behind the scum hunting that lead town to the WWs. unfortunately though it seems like he flew a little too close to the sun perhaps and whoever the WWs are actually did perceive him in that leader role

viewing kevs play as more "off" when he had more to lose when both tom and lore weren't under so much pressure really explains why I felt a contrast between his D1, D2, and even D3 play a bit. and given what I believe was an evolution of his strategy, I think his late game reads re: potential WWs could bear some fruit for us with proper consideration

I'm not done reading yet, but I noticed something interesting about Kevin's distancing tactic. It seems while he was absolutely on the "hyper-lynch Lore" train, he never brought up reasons for it, never argued with Lore about it, and Lore never challenged it.

tbh this is a great meta observation. Lore was super defensive about so much of the pressure he was getting, but you're right, he never seemed to lash out on Kev even tho kev was essentially along for the ride on the pressure/lynch lore train. We heard plenty of critique from lore re: everyone else "not having good reasons" to be pressuring lore but kev lowkey had a pass

completely off the scum list?
Mafia still had to eliminate scum. If he knows he's the last fmafia at that point, I think he's trying hard to get ww's.

Raxxel what did you mean in the post pythag is quoting here? Are you actually saying you're town reading Z25 now, or did you just mean you're not explicitly scumreading him and instead just have him back to null? You saying you were "wiping your slate clean" seems to imply the latter but I want to be sure because pythag has a point here

#HBC | FrozeηFlame
Have I leapt to the top of your scumdar with the RR flips? What do you think of Z25 regarding Kevin's flip?

Absolutely not. No one is leaping anywhere on my scumdar right now. No kneejerk ****. All I know is that I've been getting outplayed by the WWs hard and that taking obvious WIFOM bait like that is going to make town lose this game. Clearly if you're WW you stood to gain from an RR mislynch yesterday and you don't even look that bad for it because you've been so consistent on the slot all game. If you're WW and Z25 is your buddy that's the juiciest ML you could have possibly cashed in yesterday because no one can call you an opportunist. Z25's slot has always bothered me this game and now I'm feeling like I went for a hail mary taking the RR flip because I got so caught up in the you vs. RR connection and really I should've gone for the slot that I felt played overall scummier, Z25. problem is now I can't ****ing get Z25's flip without risking a loss if he's actually ****ing town

I get your point here,
However, I’ve been strongly against Kevin even before his push on me yesterday. If I was WW why would I waste the day killing anyone else but Kevin first? He had been trying to push a lynch for awhile, so why wouldn’t I have killed him sooner?

As for your other reads, I honestly agree that maven or FF should be the play today.

Maven’s play style and behavior has been something I don’t like compared to his other games.

My gut is giving me scum vibes from FF the same way I thought Kevin was scum

this whole post is just straight grime

first he tries to act like only kevin has pushes his slot so the fact that kevin has lived this long somehow proves that Z25 cant be WW because he wouldve done yomi level 1 WW killing and killed his "biggest" pressure source immediately. this is as laughable as WIFOM can get. The obvious answer is that despite kevin's pressure, guess what? We didn't ****ing lynch z25. clearly kevin's pressure wasn't bringing Z25 to the chopping block, so why get trigger happy and kill a slot that is putting just-not-quite-enough pressure on you to be lethal? of course though with the diluted player base, and with kevin having really no other targets left to draw his attention, killing kevin going into MYLO certainly pays dividends for your slot

you slotting me and maven as plays today reeks of opportunism, especially considering you literally offer up gut reads as your justification. In ****ing mylo. like bruh, I'm not one to shy away from a gut read, like I clearly shouldve listed to it on kevin but instead let him pat my ass for looking in the wrong places all game, but this lynch pool is straight sus as ****. Like wtf is "oh hey guys I totally thought kev was scum the whole time and frozen's kinda like kev even though they cant be aligned so teehee guess that means WW!"

frankly i'm getting the vibe that you knew RR was gonna be a townflip and were ready to use that as leverage to pounce on me today as the remaining "leader" of that mislynch after killing kev for the above described reasons

Rajam's argument : (I hope i'm not compressing it too much for him)
The argument being that if I was a ww, I would know who the wws are.
Thus, I can easily state that FF is town, knowing that he's town, because I'm the ww.
By saying that I think he's town without offering consideration that he's ww, he believes I am a ww who scumslipped by 'admitting' FF is town.
at least that's my way of understanding it.

this is how I read what rajam's argument is as well, and though I follow the logic I don't think there's enough to really prove that you (pythag) weren't just being imprecise with your wording. If you were more strongly claiming that I was "confirmed town," instead of just commenting on your general assessment of my towniness, which is how I interpreted that post, I would buy the argument more. But again I more got the vibe that you were more or less saying "tom's scum flip makes FF look better as a slot" instead of a claim that I was firmly not scum and not WW.

Also said he was iso'ing rr, but we never got to that

What are you talking about? I didn't do a massive wall of text but I did post a salvo of RR ISO quotes and observations at end of day, did you miss that or are you literally saying a didn't ISO RR despite that effort?

Pythag and Frozen are both nulls still, I don't recall either doing anything towny.

Z25 I'm actually considering a slight town read, his reaction to nearly being lynched came off genuine and town based. I'm thinking he just reacts badly to wagons on him.

So I'm consdering WW to be between Rajam, Pythag and Frozen. If the game had to end with me picking 2 people to die right now, it'd be Pythag/Frozen.

You and Z25 both grouping pythag and me like this has me anxious af that you're the WW pair trying to prime us as lynch candidates today with little explicit basis just so that you have the option. all of a sudden defending Z25 as town because you just think he's overreacting to pressure? like what is this ****. part of me wants to believe you'd never go all in and open buddy like this but this is like a jarringly bad take

Raxxel Rajam Pythag is anyone else seeing this or am I crazy for thinking maven/Z25 WW?