• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Japanese Tier List by SHI-G June '15 (Version 1.0.7)

Jucchan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
353
This is the June '15 SHI-G list for Version 1.0.7 (Mewtwo patch). SHI-G is the streaming crew that streams all the major Japanese tournaments such as Umebura and Sumabato. Its members include Abadango, 9B, Shimitake, Ayuha, and Yui. This tier list also received some input from Ranai, the Villager player that anyone following the Japanese scene surely knows.
https://game8.jp/matome/27826
Customs OFF, Miis Banned.

Warning: If you're going to complain about a character placement, post justification. Understand that this tier list is based on the Japanese meta, and as such as vastly different. I will write a follow-up FAQ that explains more controversial decisions (at least from an American perspective).

(IMPORTANT: Characters in the same tier are not ordered)
A+::4sheik::4sonic:
A::4mario::4diddy::4zss::4falcon::4luigi:
A-::4yoshi::4wario::4villager::4fox::rosalina::4olimar:
B::4tlink::4pit::4metaknight::4pikachu::4lucario::4rob::4ness::4pacman::4megaman::4peach::4darkpit:
C::4bowser::4bowserjr::4gaw::4dedede::4greninja::4duckhunt::4drmario::4shulk::4mewtwo:
D::4samus::4palutena::4kirby::4littlemac::4falco::4jigglypuff:
E::4dk::4link::4zelda::4ganondorf::4marth::4myfriends::4robinm::4charizard::4wiifit::4lucina:

This tier list did not use the voting system used in the last version, and instead was made by having a crew discussion, with some input from Ranai.
 
Last edited:

Jucchan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
353
My explanations to questions that will certainly be asked or I have already received:

Q. Why is Sonic 2nd?
A. I'll just quote Abadango: "Sonic has high damage output and a good neutral. Can kill with up-throw. Has invincibility on up-b, good recovery, strong smashes, can kill early, and can play campy with side-b."
Sonic has great tournament results, and has rep from players such as Komorikiri, Octo, and Yoshi. No other character except for Sheik has the same amount of usage and results hence the placement as 2nd.

Q. Why is Mario so high?
A. Mario is considered the slept-on god of the game. He has no rep whatsoever but has, again in the words of Abadango, "Safe recovery with an up-b that has invincibility, hard-to-breach aerial hitboxes, good aerial mobility, good smashes and throw options, and large combo damage output." I don't think that Ally has anything to do with this, and that people actually think that Mario has untapped god-like potential.

Q. Why is Captain Falcon so high?
A. Deserving of this spot just from results. Saiya and Pichi have been placing 2nd~6th at several tournaments. Fast, good grab, combos, ability to kill early, b-air is a good tool. Hard to beat consistently just due to the amount of shenanigans that CF can do.

Q. Why is Wario so high?
A. Rep from Abadango, Nasubi. Good in the 2 stock format due to Wario Waft. Able to survive long due to heavy weight and good recovery.

Q. Why is Rosalina so low?
A. Though this was probably somewhat controversial in Japan as well, it basically comes down to Japan not having Dabuz. Luma can be killed fairly easily, and Rosalina's recovery is very vulnerable, some points which were probably points brought up during the discussion. Rosalina's somewhat disappointing results probably prevented her from entering A tier. Her best recent result was Top 12 by Kirihara, and Top 12 a little while back by Ice.

Q. Why is Olimar so high?
A. I don't personally agree, but here's SHI-G's explanation: "Has super strong smash attacks, strong ranged attacks, and combo damage potential, as well as various options when recovering and landing." The only Olimar main I can name is Shuton, but I don't particularly follow the character either. Abadango put Olimar as B- on his personal list, so this was likely controversial.

Q. Why is Meta Knight so high?
A. In my eyes this is completely justified, and he could have even replaced Olimar in A-. Salena took 4th at Umebura 16 with MK only, a feat that amazed everyone and made a lasting impression. He has an amazing dash attack, and Shuttle Loop is also very good. MK also has the u-air chain into Shuttle Loop insta-death combo. SHI-G's 9B, an MK main considers MK to be a potential A tier, which likely helped. Abadango put MK as B- in his personal tier list, saying that MK had potential to be A tier if the insta-death combo could be perfected. Abadango's opinion probably changed after he was eliminated by Salena's MK at Umebura 16 though.

Q. Why is Pikachu so low?
A. I completely agree with this placement for Japanese tier list. Japan doesn't have ESAM. The only two Pikachu players I can name off the top of my head are Lean and Shimitake, a SHI-G crew member. Pikachu hasn't made Top 16 in 4 Umebura tournaments, which is a really long time. It also seems like people consider Pikachu's difficulty to kill a big problem.

Q. Why is Lucario so high?
A. Rep from Gomamugicha. Solid overall I guess. I don't think many people had a strong opinion on him, so they probably said "meh, I guess he's around here."

Q. Why is Ness so low?
A. Kind of surprising seeing that Fsann, taranito, and Gakuto all have pretty good results with Ness. I'm not sure if this is completely representative of Japan's general opinion, but here's Abadango's explanation: "People say that he's very strong, but that's only his moves. His dash isn't that good, and his aerial movement is slow. He relies too much on the opponent making mistakes, so he can't be A tier."

Q. Why is [Character in D or E tier] so low?
A. No rep.
 
Last edited:

Zerp

Formerly "ZeroSoul"
Administrator
Writing Team
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
4,626
Location
South Carolina
How credible is Shi-G? Is his/her/their opinion close to the general consensus in Japan as a whole or differ from it wildly?
 

Jucchan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
353
How credible is Shi-G? Is his/her/their opinion close to the general consensus in Japan as a whole or differ from it wildly?
The SHI-G tier list is the closest you're going to get to an "official" Japanese tier list. They host all large Japanese tournaments on their stream, and as such have a lot of tournament experience. Though low tier placements likely vary wildly from person to person, High and Mid tier rankings look very representative of the overall Japanese opinion and matches tournament results pretty well.
 

LancerStaff

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
8,118
Location
Buried under 990+ weapons
3DS FC
1504-5709-4054
B tier and above looks about right besides Olimar, Lucario and MK.

C and below isn't right post-patch, E in particular is completely wrong.
 
Last edited:

Xermo

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
2,811
Location
afk
NNID
SSBFC-Xerom
3DS FC
4425-1998-0670
C and below isn't right post-patch, E in particular is completely wrong.
It's almost like the japanese play entirely different from the other parts of the world.
 

Jucchan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
353
I like how all the Fire Emblem characters are E tier.
The series name is F "E" for a reason. The reasoning for the low placement was very likely "no rep, no amazing characteristics." I have to agree, it's hard to justify anything about such straight-forward sword characters when they have no rep.
 

LancerStaff

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
8,118
Location
Buried under 990+ weapons
3DS FC
1504-5709-4054
It's almost like the japanese play entirely different from the other parts of the world.
Namely talking about :4charizard::4dk::4myfriends::4marth::4lucina::4link:'s buffs. I can understand if they're still bad, but how they haven't budged after the significant changes is baffling... Actually, I kinda doubt they were aware of their buffs before making this thing.
 

Jucchan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
353
Namely talking about :4charizard::4dk::4myfriends::4marth::4lucina::4link:'s buffs. I can understand if they're still bad, but how they haven't budged after the significant changes is baffling... Actually, I kinda doubt they were aware of their buffs before making this thing.
This is ver. 1.0.7., not 1.0.8.
 

Ze Diglett

Smash Champion
Writing Team
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
2,811
Location
Rivals 2
NNID
ZeDiglett
This list is actually looking pretty solid, other than that Rosalina and Pikachu really have no business being lower than anyone that they're below, other than the A+ tiers, Diddy, and Luigi. Also Shulk is still waaay too low. And you guys think Meta Knight is slept on hard...
 

Zionaze

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
891
Location
Sudden Death
again the reason why some characters are low is because of the low amount of reps in Japan. if ESAM was japanese Pika would be hella up there.
 

BaPr

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 11, 2013
Messages
1,638
3DS FC
1091-9057-0681
Q. Why is Sonic 2nd?
A. I'll just quote Abadango: "Sonic has high damage output and a good neutral. Can kill with up-throw. Has invincibility on up-b, good recovery, strong smashes, can kill early, and can play campy with side-b."
Did Abadango actually say up-throw? I believe his back throw kills earlier (at the edge) and his forward throw does too, though, maybe up-throw isn't as easy to DI out of.
Sonic has great tournament results, and has rep from players such as Komorikiri, Octo, and Yoshi. No other character except for Sheik has the same amount of usage and results hence the placement as 2nd.
Definitely going to enjoy seeing how they use Sonic. Do you happen to know what players rep Pit/D-Pit?
Why is :4pit: and :4darkpit: so far away from each other?
Above the tier list, it states that characters in the same tiers aren't in any specific order. They have minor differences, but not enough to spread them that far apart.
 

warionumbah2

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
3,077
Location
Playing KOF XIV
Q. Why is Meta Knight so high?
A. In my eyes this is completely justified, and he could have even replaced Olimar in A-. Salena took 4th at Umebura 16 with MK only, a feat that amazed everyone and made a lasting impression. He has an amazing dash attack, and Shuttle Loop is also very good. MK also has the u-air chain into Shuttle Loop insta-death combo. SHI-G's 9B, an MK main considers MK to be a potential A tier, which likely helped. Abadango put MK as B- in his personal tier list, saying that MK had potential to be A tier if the insta-death combo could be perfected. Abadango's opinion probably changed after he was eliminated by Salena's MK at Umebura 16 though.
MKs in Japan are way behind the current MK meta. I'm shocked he's even at B, other than results the players are just so far behind in the meta.
And you guys think Meta Knight is slept on hard...
He is , especially in the west where everyone and their mothers call him mid tier-low tier based on nothing. Japan actually looks at his results, potential and what tools he has in comparison to the cast(i think MK as a character is more popular in Japan).

In most parts of the world he is slept on and even after the patch nothing has changed. Like anyone that down plays MK based on 'muh range' or 'glass' shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

aethermaster

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
823
Location
California
NNID
Aethermaster
3DS FC
2552-2699-1664
Is there a reason why they consider Lucina the worst character in the game other than no rep? I mean that's a pretty lame reason to put her DEAD LAST. She probably has favorable matchups against like Charizard or something. Honestly, I would have put Zelda in last place (or Diddy Kong
).
 
Last edited:

War Anvil

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
1,192
Location
You're all nerds
NNID
BattlingIronItem
3DS FC
2208-4585-5395
Switch FC
SW-5940-1276-1225
Hohoho, Suck Fonic must have earned his way to A+~!:4roy:

"Sonic has high damage output and a good neutral. Can kill with up-throw. Has invincibility on up-b, good recovery, strong smashes, can kill early, and can play campy with side-b."
Sounds about right. Glad our favorite blue hog is getting a lot of support in Japan. Now if only I can help spread the Charizard love here from America...
 
Last edited:

Jucchan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
353
Do you happen to know what players rep Pit/D-Pit?
Earth is definitely the best Japanese Pit. Paseriman has some success with Pit (Top 16 at Umebura 15 and 16)

Is there a reason why they consider Lucina the worst character in the game other than no rep? I mean that's a pretty lame reason to put her DEAD LAST. She probably has favorable matchups against like Charizard or something. Honestly, I would have put Zelda in last place (or Diddy Kong
).
Characters in the same tiers aren't ordered, so Lucina's not necessarily last, though I wouldn't be surprised if people thought that.
 

Jucchan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
353
Miis banned? Is this a goddamn joke?
Half of tournaments have Miis banned, and the other half Miis can use any custom with limitations on Brawler. Last tier list they rated 1111, but it didn't make any sense considering no region uses 1111. The only Mii that gets used in Japan is Brawler anyways, and in the region where Miis are legal Brawler is limited to one non-default per set in region.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 269706

Guest
I can't take this seriously. Even with the "justifications" (if we can even call them that) this seems to be very biased. Talking about Ness's weaknesses in terms of his dash and aerial movement (which I kinda disagree with), he is still a monster of a character. In NO universe should he be mid tier. And how can Mario be so high up on the tier list, despite having "no rep" while everyone in the lower tiers are placed that low for the exact same reason? I mean I get he has potential, but damn. And putting every Fire Emblem that low is just a sign of disrespect. I seriously feel like for the last 2 to 3 ranks of characters, they just put them into a randomized generator and went with it.
 

Jucchan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
353
I can't take this seriously. Even with the "justifications" (if we can even call them that) this seems to be very biased. Talking about Ness's weaknesses in terms of his dash and aerial movement (which I kinda disagree with), he is still a monster of a character. In NO universe should he be mid tier. And how can Mario be so high up on the tier list, despite having "no rep" while everyone in the lower tiers are placed that low for the exact same reason? I mean I get he has potential, but damn. And putting every Fire Emblem that low is just a sign of disrespect. I seriously feel like for the last 2 to 3 ranks of characters, they just put them into a randomized generator and went with it.
Of course it's biased, it's based on the opinions of the players. I tried my best to find quotes on twitter and blogs of the players to write justifications that represent the reasoning behind the placements even if I don't agree. How is Ness mid-tier on this list? You can't tell because the tiers aren't ordered. Ness could be as high as Top 15 or as low as Top 25. Also, how is putting all FE characters in bottom tier disrespect? 1.0.7. FE characters were honestly not viable and have close to 0 usage. At the most recent Japanese tournament, only 3 out of 160+ players used a FE character while Mario alone had 7 players, tied for 5th most common. Mario has usage, just no one repping him in top-level play.
 
D

Deleted member 269706

Guest
Of course it's biased, it's based on the opinions of the players. I tried my best to find quotes on twitter and blogs of the players to write justifications that represent the reasoning behind the placements even if I don't agree. How is Ness mid-tier on this list? You can't tell because the tiers aren't ordered. Ness could be as high as Top 15 or as low as Top 25. Also, how is putting all FE characters in bottom tier disrespect? 1.0.7. FE characters were honestly not viable and have close to 0 usage. At the most recent Japanese tournament, only 3 out of 160+ players used a FE character while Mario alone had 7 players, tied for 5th most common. Mario has usage, just no one repping him in top-level play.
Maybe it's just me, but it appears that Ness has 19 other characters in front of him and 29 underneath him. That's like 5 places away from being the most middle tier character. From a mathematical and logical standpoint, someone in that position is middle tier by definition. Similarly, I'm sure that there are other characters on that list with as little (if not less) representation than the Fire Emblem characters, yet all four of them are in the bottom half of the lowest tier. I admit, I am biased when it comes to that side of the argument, but I would love to see some sources for the information you are sharing with us. Especially the most recent Japanese tournament you keep mentioning.
 

Jucchan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
353
Maybe it's just me, but it appears that Ness has 19 other characters in front of him and 29 underneath him. That's like 5 places away from being the most middle tier character. From a mathematical and logical standpoint, someone in that position is middle tier by definition. Similarly, I'm sure that there are other characters on that list with as little (if not less) representation than the Fire Emblem characters, yet all four of them are in the bottom half of the lowest tier. I admit, I am biased when it comes to that side of the argument, but I would love to see some sources for the information you are sharing with us. Especially the most recent Japanese tournament you keep mentioning.
All characters in B tier are tied for 14th since it specifically says in the tier list that order within a tier doesn't matter.
Here is the character usage for Umebura 16: https://game8.jp/matome/27932 I even made a thread about it. The FE character make-up was 1 Lucina, 2 Ike. That's it. That makes FE the least represented multi-character series despite having 4 characters, tied with Star Fox which only has Fox and Falco.
 

Luggy

Drawing like a tramp
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
5,016
Location
France
NNID
Luggy_Bros
3DS FC
4184-3014-1463
(IMPORTANT: Characters in the same tier are not ordered)
A+::4sheik::4sonic:
A::4mario::4diddy::4zss::4falcon::4luigi:
A-::4yoshi::4wario::4villager::4fox::rosalina::4olimar:
B::4tlink::4pit::4metaknight::4pikachu::4lucario::4rob::4ness::4pacman::4megaman::4peach::4darkpit:
C::4bowser::4bowserjr::4gaw::4dedede::4greninja::4duckhunt::4drmario::4shulk::4mewtwo:
D::4samus::4palutena::4kirby::4littlemac::4falco::4jigglypuff:
E::4dk::4link::4zelda::4ganondorf::4marth::4myfriends::4robinm::4charizard::4wiifit::4lucina:
I don't really care about tier list. Just look at my mains and secondaries and you'll see why.
However, I always liked to look at Japanese Tier Lists, just to see how different they are from our own.
Here, have a look. I took this tier list from this very popular thread here.
A+::4diddy::4sheik:
A::4pikachu::4sonic::4ness::4yoshi::rosalina::4zss::4luigi:
A-::4falcon::4lucario::4fox::4mario::4villager:
B::4peach::4shulk::4greninja::4megaman::4wario:
C::4rob::4robinf::4olimar::4pit::4kirby::4tlink::4link::4pacman:
D::4myfriends::4bowser: :4jigglypuff: :4duckhunt: :4darkpit::4metaknight:
E::4marth::4ganondorf::4lucina::4zelda::4falco::4littlemac::4dk::4bowserjr:
F::4samus::4dedede::4drmario::4wiifit::4palutena::4gaw::4charizard:
I tried to, quote and quote, "adapt" it to the Japanese format, with the letters and by removing the Miis. You can see the real version by clicking the link below. This tier list also doesn't have Mewtwo in it, so it's still pretty "outdated", but we'll still take it for the sake of "comparaison".

For the most part, I'm okay with the Japanese one, though there's some characters that, maybe, need to be higher. In particular, Pikachu seems really low compared to our "tier list" and our general opinion on Pikachu.

Another really strange thing to see is how high Metaknight is compared to our general opinion. Japan finds him good, while we consider Metaknight like trash. Again, it's only the "general opinion".
Doc', G&W and King Triple D seems also pretty high in this tier list compared to our's.
While others like Kirby, Link or Ness are pretty low if we compare it with the Japanese tier list.

All and all, I think it's funny to see all of this differences between tier lists from other countries. Maybe the tier list I showed here is completely outdated and worthless to use for comparing it with the Japanese one, but my point still stand : there's a lot of differences between Japan and us.

Feel free to disagree with me, of course.
 

Troykv

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
3,990
E Tier is Fire Emblem and Hyrule Tier xD

Now start to wait... How the Patch 1.0.8 will changes FE Chars Positions?
 

DavemanCozy

Smash Photographer
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
1,716
Location
London, ON
NNID
CavemanCossy
3DS FC
0216-1810-7681
I know that Japan's meta and playstyles are all different, but I also have a feeling most of the patch changes are coming from Japan's tier lists.

Either way imo:

Sonic I feel is top five but definitely not #2. That spot belongs to Rosalina, and I hope Dabuz continues proving how absolutely amazing that character is or SHI-G catches on. Rosalina not only has Luma who just invalidates 3/4s of the cast, but she is arguably the only character who has a small advantage against Sheik (or even, either way the better player wins).

Falcon's recovery gets cheesed too easily. I don't see why he should be in the tier with all those characters.

I'll write more as it comes to mind
 

SuperTorn

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
97
Location
Manati, Puerto Rico
NNID
SuperTorn
I think it's painfully obvious that the people over in the *** meta play a different version of the game. What surprised me the most is seeing Falco and Meta Knight a tier above than usual so atleast theres finally people who realize their potential.
 
Top Bottom