Janon social thread : Lair of the Floating Back Slapping Missile Reflecting King of Evil

[Coastward]

Fair amount ? More like unfair amount lmao. I tested it and a Bob-omb explosion won't make you flinch.

yeah man thats fair

 

[RelaxAlax]

This hover though mmm.

Edgeguards shall never be missed now. In fact, a couple time i went so far out I did a normal Uair and with the tip of the leg i spiked characters under Smashville lol

 

[HiroProtagonist]

Cannot wait to do some float---> Tipman edgeguards

 

[WIZRD.Pro]

IMO, the Super Armor makes sense. The attack has a large startup and you can't do much of anything through it's duration. I personally would feel cheated if it gets anything less than Heavy Armor.

 

[Stalled]

It's less an attack and more a tool used to crush the morale of your opponents. I'm not going to say no to armor, but i don't really know if it makes sense here.

 

[CORY]

yeah, i don't think it needs heavy armor at all. it's pretty much a huge disrespect move now, so even just medium armor would be more than enough, imo.

 

[Yoki]

It's a taunt, it's not meant to be viable but only to be used for utter disrespect, I say give it negative armor, triple the startup lag, make it a single hitbox on Ganon's crotch and when it hits have him laugh and then explode, hail satan

 

[Yanoss1313]

Uhh... just a heads up that was supposed to be Medium Armor but it looks like my commit didn't work or something... enjoy the Super Armor for now!

The shoulder hitbox is intentional. Most sword users have them to prevent whiffing against people right next to you.

Hmm, what svn client do you guys use?

I've been having some issues with phantom checkouts with TortoiseSVN recently. >.<

 

[Xinc]

so heres the down taunt hitbox

he gets a fair amount of super armor and has a hitbox on his head lmao.

Looks like someone's been taking sword lessons from Marth. The tip sure looks strong.

 

[Anonistry]

I mean, sure its not meant to be viable, but anybody with even a modicum of anything can tell not to get hit by that in any situation where the armor would be relevant. Which is all the more reason for Super Armor. It IS disrepect, just as surely as Ganondorf IS Power. If they are fool enough to not answer the disrespect with something as simple as not getting hit by such a slow move and then punishing, then we deserve to punish them throwing Tabuu's Wingring Shenanigans at us.

Also, Secret Best Buff coming to light. It shall be my crusade!

EDIT: Also setting up new used Wii (looks like Gamestop is getting plenty in stock, sweet!) and SD now. My hype can finally be allowed to flow.

DOUBLE EDIT: That feeling when you totally forgot the 2gb or less rule for SD cards you purchase and are going to have to go out and get a new one... T.T

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Uhh... just a heads up that was supposed to be Medium Armor but it looks like my commit didn't work or something... enjoy the Super Armor for now!

The shoulder hitbox is intentional. Most sword users have them to prevent whiffing against people right next to you.

Keep the super armor. It's really hard to hit with as it is, and having the armor there just shows way more disrespect from Ganondorf.

 

[Anonistry]

Keep the super armor. It's really hard to hit with as it is, and having the armor there just shows way more disrespect from Ganondorf.

This guy here, he gets it. Maximum disrespect. Maximum reward for them failing to make us respect.

 

[GeZ]

I honestly haven't found the armor super useful. Only time I land the thing is as a super hard read, or when a character is forced to recover poorly.

 

[| Kailex |]

I use it randomly and hit my brother multiple times, so that is satisfying

 

[Coastward]

the only time super armor has helped was when a charizard side-b'd into me.

gonna have a day 1 combo video up pretty soon. got some really cool stuff, and ended up making my friend ragequit and go home LOL.

 

[GeZ]

I had the freaking sweetest moment just a few minutes ago. Playing Ganon v Roy against my main playing partner, and we're both on last stock at around 70%, facing each other with him in shield. He rolls back, I DACUS on reaction, and that's game. He had to take a break after that one.

Edit: What have your guys day one experiences been with the character? I've had a super positive reception, though finding use for Float has been mixed in that I'm figuring out what characters can slap me for flying where. I've still had a lot of great moments with it though. Share experiences?

 

[Bazkip]

If you haven't already, do yourself the favour of playing stamina normal knockback no blastzones with 990HP. Funniest damn thing I've seen in a long time. Even more amazing if you can land the sword taunt.

I was laughing so much I was nearly in tears.

 

[Filosafer]

Previous to this update, I'd only win about 40% of the time. Now it's consistently in my favour, especially playing against my friend's CF. The sword is a great edgeguard, first of all. I've found it hard to use the hover in combos and recovery, though maybe it's because I'm not used to it yet. Unless you cape out of it, there's a bit of a delay after it before you can do much. But meteor smashing is about 10x easier, especially for people who's third jump is all vertical. Hover - dair is incredibly satisfying.
I did cape falcon punch at point blank as the opening move, then proceed to a 0-death combo. We paused and took a break after that.
I'm relatively new to Ganon, but I'm super glad I picked him up now.

 

[Spralwers]

Yeah I played Ganondorf at our monthly today. The float needs to be used with utter caution in neutral, but it really expands his punish options. Quicker nair with quicker IASA is nice. Faster jumpsquat plus melee-ish style landing detection makes wavedashes and wavelands so smooth. Fthrow is kind of a kill throw and a great mix up if you aren't confident in getting a good follow up off of dthrow. The dash grab buff is nice. The DACUS timing has thrown me off and I wasn't able to fully get the hang of it while I was playing, but towards the end I was getting it.

But my two favorite parts - Bruce Lee fsmash and quick sidestep, were really what sealed the deal for me. sidestep->jab punishes just about anything that whiffs lol. I can make greater use of a reactive playstyle to literally just wait until someone makes and attack, then just sidestep it and punish. I land the Bruce Lee whenever I get the chance.

Also can't speak enough about how awesome shield DI is. Situations where I would shield an attack but fall of the ledge can change to not falling off at all, leading to scary punishes.

 

[GeZ]

@ Spralwers I actually can't figure out how to DACUS consistently with Z, but I always had R set to attack so I've just been DACUS'ing with that. Does the universal DACUS change affect all forms of DACUS (like my DACUSing with R)?

@ Filosafer I don't really agree that The Sword is a good edgeguard, simply because it only hits at the very end of its swing, making it cover a deceptively small area. Still fun to catch people with, but not to be used often or for anything probably.
Also recovering with float is pretty simple. If you're within range of recovering with just Down B > Double Jump > Up B, you can use it to stall before or after the double jump, but carefully as that can guarantee your death just like a failed recovery can. If you can't reach with just that, you Down B > Float forward > Double Jump > Up B.

In general Float seems like a great tool for giving us more options and applying pressure, though it totally has the potential to screw you over when used poorly. My favorite use so far has been to feint moving towards the opponent and then Float above their reaction and Fair punish.

Reflect has kind of weird timing, but is very good for us. I spent a lot of time turning around projectiles that would usually keep me locked down, and getting better pressure because of it. Little thing I've noticed about it is that while the timing is strict, the reflect state is all inclusive. I've reflected things that hit me in the back, feet, head, etc. Pretty sweet, in my opinion.

In regards to just general play, I've been using a fair amount of SH Bair/ Uair > WL > Utilt/ Jab/ Ftilt. Utilt out of WL works really well on mid to heavy characters, but I would not recommend trying it against anyone light and/ or janky. They'll pop right out and punish it. Jab is just safe in general so I've been using it when I'm not sure sure of my conversion, but still want to apply pressure. Ftilt is Ftilt. If I'm doing it out of WL its to reach a little further than my butter shoes could take me to get that boot to the face. I've also been using more spaced Ftilt and Bair's as well, especially against characters with good range, just because harass to impose impatience is pretty sweet.

Also we convert and kill way too hard on mid to heavy weight characters. By the time I had eased into 3.5 Ganon relatively well I could land zero to deaths on my friends Roy pretty consistently. Hover makes balls deep edgeguarding really standard fair for us, which is sweet.

Though I've now formed the Bias that anyone who plays an unslippery Ganon is a false Ganon. I mean, how can you keep yourself from WL'ing and DACUSing around? It's literally the best feeling.

 

[Scuba Steve]

I actually switched to Falcon a few months back because I was having more fun playing as him, but after playing some 3.5 Ganon, I'm starting to question whether I can resist maining Ganon again.I haven't had this much fun playing Ganon in a long time. I ****ing love all the changes so far.

The new landing detection feels great while wavelanding around the stage and it's even allowed me to do reverse ledge dashes with Ganon, which I was never able to do in 3.0.

Ganon's shorter jumpsquat feels great and gives Ganon a slight extra boost in speed while retaining his waveland centric style of movement. Wavedashing OoS is now a better option as well because of this.

Speaking of WD'ing OoS, it feels much better to do now because you can now use both triggers at the same time. So basically how you could in Melee. For me, I struggled with WD OoS way longer than any of the other tech I have under my belt, but this change just made it significantly easier for me.

GANON GOT A BETTER SPOTDODGE. HOLY ****. Practically every tweak that I hoped for was put in. Ganon's spotdodge now has identical frame data as the spacies to give you an idea of how it feels. DID I ALSO MENTION THAT IT LOOKS COOL AS ****? I'm not sure if the frame data on the rolls were changed, but they got the same treatment and really remind you that this guy is indeed a warlock and not just some guy with green skin who punches people.

The general animation tweaks he received are great too and the new skins just make me feel like I'm being spoiled at this point.

The sword ****ing rules. 'Nuff said

Hover might be my favorite change to Ganon. It gives Ganon more options in unique ways, while still keeping the same feel of the Ganon that we know in love. Using hovers to threaten and wall people out is immensely satisfying. Hover even gives recovery mixups and can help Ganon come down from being above opponents. One of my favorite new uses of hover is using it for super deep edgeguards that Ganon wasn't capable of before. Nothing feels better than chasing a spacey offstage and hover fairing them right before they can side-b back on.

The nerfs to everybody else is above and beyond what I could have hoped for Ganon's future in 3.5, but his future now looks brighter than ever. All hail the PMDT for 3.5, mad Ganon love went into this update

 

[Datnox]

I actually can't figure out how to DACUS consistently with Z, but I always had R set to attack so I've just been DACUS'ing with that. Does the universal DACUS change affect all forms of DACUS (like my DACUSing with R)?

My dacus was just starting to get consistent . This new timing is harder, but still doable even when using z.

 

[WIZRD.Pro]

Here's the uses for Hover I've found so far:

• Recovery: It is quite obvious that it'd help, but it's a bit strange. You really only benefit from it if you still have a jump after using it. So Hover into Jump into Dive is the best option you have. Or if you're high enough, Jump into Gerudo Dragon. If you don't have a jump, it still helps but you'll have to wait a bit before using a special.
• Gimping: Jumping offstage into Hover into Stomp is really satisfying, but you can also use Hover into Fair, Hover into Bair and Hover into Uair. Offstage is where Hover is most powerful, and I love it.

Theoretically, it may even let us shorten our short hops so we can better SHFFL our Nairs, Uairs and maybe even Bairs. I haven't tried it yet but it sounds possible.

 

[Spralwers]

@ GeZ It does. I used to claw style for dacus so I could use the A button and get that extra frame. With the DACUS being a universal 2 frames, that means if you use the attack button, you get one less frame to do it compared to 3.02. I'm totally fine with univeral 2 frames, because the timing can be done consistently, and you don't need different timing between different characters.

Oh I do recall trying to insta float and I was so low to the ground that you almost couldn't see Ganon's feet. Might be a fun way to essentially be grounded but have access to all your aerials and carry some momentum if you want.

 

[trash?]

And b-reverse RAR hover is there too, I learned it while trying to find a way to better control my movement options

I'm surprised nobody's considering this to be a big deal. with just a slight bit of extra techskill, you can land bairs basically whenever you feel like in the air now

 

[| Kailex |]

I thought this was the pm social for a sec, so many new people

 

[trash?]

everyone got a pocket ganon, don't you remember?

 

[CORY]

I had the freaking sweetest moment just a few minutes ago. Playing Ganon v Roy against my main playing partner, and we're both on last stock at around 70%, facing each other with him in shield. He rolls back, I DACUS on reaction, and that's game. He had to take a break after that one.

Edit: What have your guys day one experiences been with the character? I've had a super positive reception, though finding use for Float has been mixed in that I'm figuring out what characters can slap me for flying where. I've still had a lot of great moments with it though. Share experiences?

i've been having those float problems, too. i'm just letting myself go through the phase of "am i in the air? WHY AM I NOT FLOATING?!" for now then work it out from there : p

If you haven't already, do yourself the favour of playing stamina normal knockback no blastzones with 990HP. Funniest damn thing I've seen in a long time. Even more amazing if you can land the sword taunt.

I was laughing so much I was nearly in tears.

turn damage ratio to 2.0 and go to a small stage (like wario ware) and just watch everything fly everywhere (even better with a roy to counter!) : D

 

[Coastward]

i have really good examples of how good hover can be used, just gotta wait for my friend to put the video up.

hover helps you space aerials so well. if you do it right, you can float > uair on shield and your opponent will think they can shield grab you. they'll go for the grab but youre able to float > aerial again before they can grab. at least that's what i was able to do while playing, still might be situational.

RAR hover edgeguarding is too good, it can literally cover anything.

 

[GeZ]

I'm surprised nobody's considering this to be a big deal. with just a slight bit of extra techskill, you can land bairs basically whenever you feel like in the air now

It seems like everyone's mentioned it at least once, so it's at least well known, or making the rounds. I think people are focusing on other stuff, because that feels more like a boost to Ganons fundamentals, while some of his other changes are much more over the top and crazy.

@ GeZ It does. I used to claw style for dacus so I could use the A button and get that extra frame. With the DACUS being a universal 2 frames, that means if you use the attack button, you get one less frame to do it compared to 3.02. I'm totally fine with univeral 2 frames, because the timing can be done consistently, and you don't need different timing between different characters.

Oh I do recall trying to insta float and I was so low to the ground that you almost couldn't see Ganon's feet. Might be a fun way to essentially be grounded but have access to all your aerials and carry some momentum if you want.

Insta float sounds ******** cool. Depending on if float can be acted out of immediately, it could lead to some sweet combos too. Gotta try this **** out.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Float seems like it has to be out for a little bit before you can act out of it to prevent it from being used like DJC.

 

[WIZRD.Pro]

Float seems like it has to be out for a little bit before you can act out of it to prevent it from being used like DJC.

That's for specials and even then you can Jump Cancel into Special.

 

[Scuba Steve]

That's for specials and even then you can Jump Cancel into Special.

I know what you're talking about, but that's not what I was talking about. Aerials cancel his float, but the float needs to be out for a tiny bit before you can do it, which prevents him from using it as quickly as a Peach might use her float cancelled aerials.

 

[Coastward]

I know what you're talking about, but that's not what I was talking about. Aerials cancel his float, but the float needs to be out for a tiny bit before you can do it, which prevents him from using it as quickly as a Peach might use her float cancelled aerials.

i think i read somewhere that you gotta wait 14 frames before you can do anything else.

 

[TTTTTsd]

IDK if anyone's discussed it but B-Reversing Hover can lead to some great ****. If you run, jump, B-Reverse hover and time it right, a good chunk of your momentum carries over and you get a little airdash. Jesus christ I thought the hover was odd when I first tried it but the utility is tremendous.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Hover is so ****ing cool. Praise be to the PMDT.

 

[Anonistry]

I recall reading that as well. Which

IDK if anyone's discussed it but B-Reversing Hover can lead to some great ****. If you run, jump, B-Reverse hover and time it right, a good chunk of your momentum carries over and you get a little airdash. Jesus christ I thought the hover was odd when I first tried it but the utility is tremendous.

Basically I feel like its going to be not "as" impressive at acting out of as I would have hoped, but its going to allow for some amazing reads, as well as being the next big thing in edge game.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Float seems like it has to be out for a little bit before you can act out of it to prevent it from being used like DJC.

yeah, i'm pretty sure there's about 18 frames before you can cancel it with anything other than a volley.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Basically I feel like its going to be not "as" impressive at acting out of as I would have hoped, but its going to allow for some amazing reads, as well as being the next big thing in edge game.

Not massively game-changing but it helps a lot if you put the mindgames in. It's basically a weave-punish sort of deal but it gives Ganon an option to snap back relatively quickly compared to manually turning. I'd recommend Nair out of float if you want a fast punish but if you're gutsy and you know it's gonna hit you can just meaty Fair them. If they try and jump this mixup you can Upair to swat them if they try and get "smart." It's not the best in the world but it has some really cool utility =D

Basically yeah you're right, it's certainly gonna make amazing reads super possible.

 

[Anonistry]

Hey, lets face it, Dorf otherwise is TERRIBLE at not committing; barring the stupidity that is his perennial struggle with camping, I'd argue its his biggest weakness. Of course, it justifies the other ways he is awesome, but having even a -decent- option, and I so far suspect this will be -good- at the least, to pullback will do him wonders.