Ivysaur Tether Recovery.

[Pkm_trainer09]

Can someone please test out the rumor, or post a vid, of ivysaur not being able to recover why someone is ledge-hogging. It sucks, i know, but i know we need some visual proof. Anyone with the game, can you plase test it?

 

[Card]

It's not a rumor, it's true. I wrote it up in my In-Depth Analysis thread. Ivysaur has one of the worst recovery in the game probably.

What P.Trainer players need to do is use Air-Dodge to avoid being hit while off the stage and save their Double Jump for the perfect moment, and use the Tether Recovery at the best possible moment. It's not a huge setback, but it definitely is one. Luckily Ivysaur is quite floaty, so most often you can reach the stage with just a double jump

 

[pictish freak]

I had asked in that topic about the possibility of tethering very quickly, since if you're at low percent you should logically be able to tether before the enemy finishes cooling down from the throw or whatnot and gets a chance to edge hog. The reply was that tether recovery doesn't work from above.

I responded with the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjm7vG2Ggnk

2:30, ivysaur latches on from above the stage. No telling from that how far above the edge you can be, but that tether was definitely from above the edge.

Edit: In fact, at 2:41 he manages to miss the edge but at an incredibly steep angle at which you'd never realistically need to tether. Oh how I wish I could test this.

Angles from the edge and the maximum height/distance you can be from the edge - anyone up to the challenge of documenting this? Seeing the exact range of angles available to tether the edge would be a really valuable contribution.

Edit edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UdDUHCEkuA 3:32, Ivysaur tethers from ages above the stage and quite far out too.

So, any feedback from trainer players? Can you not merely tether faster at low percents to prevent edgehogging altogether, since it's possible to tether from above?

 

[Card]

I had asked in that topic about the possibility of tethering very quickly, since if you're at low percent you should logically be able to tether before the enemy finishes cooling down from the throw or whatnot and gets a chance to edge hog. The reply was that tether recovery doesn't work from above.

I responded with the following:


So, any feedback from trainer players? Can you not merely tether faster at low percents to prevent edgehogging altogether, since it's possible to tether from above?

Yep, that is exactly correct. Also the example the guy gave in the other thread was Olimar getting hit by an N-Air after a low percent throw off the stage.... Olimar SHOULD have used a Momentum Air Dodge and avoided the attack all-together, OR continued to fall backwards and just tether recovery.

Like you said in the quote as well, Tethers have strange properties. They are WAY longer than just doing a regular Up+B on the ground. It also can be done from extremely low angle and somewhat higher angles as well. I've also done it from below the stage (like in Battlefield, I was underneath the stage and it slingshotted me to the ledge.

It really is not a HUGE problem. P.Trainers don't worry about it. With the right mindset if anything it's an advantage that allows for some excellent recoveries. Throwing a Razor Leaf at an edger also messes them up, and allows you to tether during their hit-stun.

 

[Pkm_trainer09]

cool, and thanks a lot.

 

[pictish freak]

Throwing a Razor Leaf at an edger also messes them up, and allows you to tether during their hit-stun.

Interesting! I was gonna suggest that but had no idea how viable it was to throw a projectile and still recover. Even if the person jumps to refresh their invulnerability frames, that still requires opening the edge for the tether - albeit I certainly can't tell if it'd be possible to tether that tiny opening in razor leaf lag.

 

[Card]

Interesting! I was gonna suggest that but had no idea how viable it was to throw a projectile and still recover. Even if the person jumps to refresh their invulnerability frames, that still requires opening the edge for the tether - albeit I certainly can't tell if it'd be possible to tether that tiny opening in razor leaf lag.

It's great, believe me. My friend who plays me already exploits the Tether recovery of Ivysaur and edges me. So I needed to figure out a way to not get totally owned by it. The Razor Leaf is the perfect solution. I would say the hit-stun on Razor Leaf is comparable to the hit-stun on Dr.Mario's Pill or Falco Lazer in Melee. So if they are on the ledge and you are in the horizontal range, Toss a razor leaf. They'll either take the hit or roll the edge. If they take the hit, you can toss a Vine-Whip and you'll snag the ledge before they do (They CANNOT grab the ledge if you are hanging from it) (ALSO, Vine Whip is EXTREMELY FAST, believe me)

If they roll the edge, simply Double-Jump wait for them to finish their roll and do a nice little Vine Whip afterwards.

 

[FlipManV3]

Can you post a video of Ivysaur Razor Leafing someone on the ledge and grabbing on?

Ivysaur seems to a have a little bit of lag after throwing a leaf.

 

[tacticslord]

also this happen to me once and it should probably be checked a bit more, but if it works it could be kinda fun. I was playing against a marth who had 130+ damage from what I remember. Well he edge-hogged me and when I did my vine whip, instead of auto-sweet spotting (like it would if his body weren't in the way) it did the regular attack like usual. Only this time the tip of the vine whip nailed him and he shot straight down. Not really sure how viable this is but if someone could check this for me (I can only play once every few days) that'd be great.