Is there such a thing as an evil person? (Is there such a thing as pure evil?)

[itsameSMB]

(FTR, this is my first debate thread I started here, so please keep that in mind while reading this)

The introduction​

Evil. It's a term used to describe something/someone that/who is malevolent, cruel, or just a big [censor]. We all oppose it, and yet evil still exists. Why is that? It's not as if someone intentionally set out to be evil. Sure, some folks might try to be annoying or merciless in a competative or domestic sense, but no one that I could imagine would do something considered evil just for the sake of evil. Why then are some people considered evil? What makes a group/person evil?

My opinion on it​

I don't think that there is such a thing as absolute evil as evil is a relative term. Granted it means generally the same thing to everyone, but as I have said, nobody outside of works of fiction sets out just to cause meaningless harm. Hitler was as far from a saint as you coud be, but in his mind he was trying to help the human race to accelerate human evolution (not saying the killing of many isn't evil, but his intentions, no matter how twisted they may be, weren't in his mind). Those who exploit others for personal gain aren't evil, either. Doesn't mean they are good, but rather they are just self-centered. Even terrorists in an absolute sense aren't evil, just misguided and tricked into believing that their cause is righteous and that the end justifies the means. They are only evil in a relative sense, like to the people they terrorize. I think there are only evil actions, not evil people. After all, no one will see the error in their own ways (I forgot where that's from so I may have paraphased).

Well, that's what I think at least. Now, let's hear from you!

NOTE: I do not condone the acts mentioned above, I was just using them as examples for the discussion.

 

[The Executive]

(FTR, this is my first debate thread I started here, so please keep that in mind while reading this)

The introduction​

Evil. It's a term used to describe something/someone that/who is malevolent, cruel, or just a big [censor]. We all oppose it, and yet evil still exists. Why is that? It's not as if someone intentionally set out to be evil. Sure, some folks might try to be annoying or merciless in a competative or domestic sense, but no one that I could imagine would do something considered evil just for the sake of evil. Why then are some people considered evil? What makes a group/person evil?

My opinion on it​

I don't think that there is such a thing as absolute evil as evil is a relative term. Granted it means generally the same thing to everyone, but as I have said, nobody outside of works of fiction sets out just to cause meaningless harm. Hitler was as far from a saint as you coud be, but in his mind he was trying to help the human race to accelerate human evolution (not saying the killing of many isn't evil, but his intentions, no matter how twisted they may be, weren't in his mind). Those who exploit others for personal gain aren't evil, either. Doesn't mean they are good, but rather they are just self-centered. Even terrorists in an absolute sense aren't evil, just misguided and tricked into believing that their cause is righteous and that the end justifies the means. They are only evil in a relative sense, like to the people they terrorize. I think there are only evil actions, not evil people. After all, no one will see the error in their own ways (I forgot where that's from so I may have paraphased).

Well, that's what I think at least. Now, let's hear from you!

NOTE: I do not condone the acts mentioned above, I was just using them as examples for the discussion.

From a secular POV, evil is defined as something that the majority of society finds 'morally' rephrensible.

 

[Ørion]

From a Christian stand point on this issue (by the way The Executive, please note I did not create this to be opposed to your post, I actually was going to write this before I even saw your post, I just do not want to seem hostile to you.), I believe that humans are basically evil. I believe that if this was not the case, there would be no evil in the world. However, I believe that it is and that good comes through people controlling the evil that infests everyone. As for absolute evil, I really do not know about that. I find it hard to believe that there can be people who have never done good in their lives, but I do not know.

Do add on to what you said about people never deliberately setting out to do evil in their minds, I must disagree with this. Some people (Hussein's children for a specific example) get enjoyment from torturing people, which I don't believe anyone here could refer to as 'not evil'. People torture animals for fun. Its a sick and perverse truth, but it is true that this occurs.

 

[The Executive]

From a Christian stand point on this issue (by the way The Executive, please note I did not create this to be opposed to your post, I actually was going to write this before I even saw your post, I just do not want to seem hostile to you.), I believe that humans are basically evil. I believe that if this was not the case, there would be no evil in the world. However, I believe that it is and that good comes through people controlling the evil that infests everyone. As for absolute evil, I really do not know about that. I find it hard to believe that there can be people who have never done good in their lives, but I do not know.

Do add on to what you said about people never deliberately setting out to do evil in their minds, I must disagree with this. Some people (Hussein's children for a specific example) get enjoyment from torturing people, which I don't believe anyone here could refer to as 'not evil'. People torture animals for fun. Its a sick and perverse truth, but it is true that this occurs.

Not at all. I would've typed up your argument, but for lack of time/interest I chose to play devil's advocate and write a generic secular response.

 

[itsameSMB]

From a Christian stand point on this issue (by the way The Executive, please note I did not create this to be opposed to your post, I actually was going to write this before I even saw your post, I just do not want to seem hostile to you.), I believe that humans are basically evil. I believe that if this was not the case, there would be no evil in the world. However, I believe that it is and that good comes through people controlling the evil that infests everyone. As for absolute evil, I really do not know about that. I find it hard to believe that there can be people who have never done good in their lives, but I do not know.

Do add on to what you said about people never deliberately setting out to do evil in their minds, I must disagree with this. Some people (Hussein's children for a specific example) get enjoyment from torturing people, which I don't believe anyone here could refer to as 'not evil'. People torture animals for fun. Its a sick and perverse truth, but it is true that this occurs.

I am not doubting that their acts are evil or that they are evil in a relative sense, but I don't think they tourtured people (as evil as they may be) just for the sake of being an evil ***hole. They did it for personal pleasure, even though they may have set out to do so knowing it is looked upon as evil. Motive and knowing something is a certain way are two different things. Killing is an evil act, is it not? Yet in war those who kill in war are not looked upon as evil but as heroes. I doubt that any right-minded soldier would just pick up a gun and start shooting at people unless they thought that it was forwarding their effort. Again, evil is a relative term, not an absolute. Also, I am not saying there are no evil people in the world, just that no one tries to be evil for the sake of being evil.

 

[Batchfile]

I think evil is a connotation of selfish. Or just a different set of mind.

 

[Crimson King]

I disagree. Selfishness is a human, normal trait. There are three main laws, which all societies accept as universal: do not kill, do not steal, and do not ****. Those that pervert those rules to mean "do not kill those who don't oppose you," etc. tend to be considered evil in some capacity.

 

[Deleted member]

Ayn Rand is a fascist.

 

[SkylerOcon]

If you want my opinion, all I have to say is that all humans are basically evil. When was the last time that when somebody bought the last copy of a game you wanted right in front of you that you though 'Oh, it's okay. I can wait a week for another shipment' as opposed to 'That little ******* just bought my game!'.

We all love to twist things and make it justified from our point of view. A war is a perfect example of this. America is currently in a war with Iraq, which they (meaning the government, not the nation as a whole) justify as a 'war on terror'. In reality, it's just attacking a type of government which we have proclaimed wrong (a dictatorship).

Humans are evil because they can't seem to even grasp an opposing point of view. We will flame, and possibly even kill people just because they're different from us.

We are evil because we don't accept those who are radically different from us. This is why there still aren't gay rights (OMG BIBLE SEZ NO!1), abortions (once again, OMG BIBLE SEZ NO!1), and there's still racism. We just don't like people who are different. You can't deny it, I can't deny it, and I really don't see anybody having a good way too deny it.

 

[Batchfile]

I disagree. Selfishness is a human, normal trait. There are three main laws, which all societies accept as universal: do not kill, do not steal, and do not ****. Those that pervert those rules to mean "do not kill those who don't oppose you," etc. tend to be considered evil in some capacity.

But isn't evil?

Evil is like the word stupid. People use it based on their own judgement.

 

[WuTangDude]

If you want my opinion, all I have to say is that all humans are basically evil. When was the last time that when somebody bought the last copy of a game you wanted right in front of you that you though 'Oh, it's okay. I can wait a week for another shipment' as opposed to 'That little ******* just bought my game!'.

We all love to twist things and make it justified from our point of view. A war is a perfect example of this. America is currently in a war with Iraq, which they (meaning the government, not the nation as a whole) justify as a 'war on terror'. In reality, it's just attacking a type of government which we have proclaimed wrong (a dictatorship).

Humans are evil because they can't seem to even grasp an opposing point of view. We will flame, and possibly even kill people just because they're different from us.

We are evil because we don't accept those who are radically different from us. This is why there still aren't gay rights (OMG BIBLE SEZ NO!1), abortions (once again, OMG BIBLE SEZ NO!1), and there's still racism. We just don't like people who are different. You can't deny it, I can't deny it, and I really don't see anybody having a good way too deny it.

You know, I've been reading a few of your posts, and I must say, you don't do very well hiding your bias against Christians. Nobody on this board who are Christians defends the Bible or their beliefs on the simple basis of "The Bible/God/Jesus said so", or at least to my knowledge. You can either quit generalizing the Christians on this board (and Christians in general), or we could take this to the boot topic.










...Anyways, on the note of this topic, we all possess triats considered evil by the majoirty of the public, such as greed and pride. However, this is a sticky topic, because I don't know if we are "pure" evil. I mean, if we were pure evil, would we really be sharing and helping others? I don't think so, at least...

 

[UberBob]

I don't think there is such thing as true evil in a person. I like to think of it this way: Anyone who is comitting a supposedly "evil" act must believe that what they are doing is righteous. For example Hitler believed he was doing a "favor" to the world by mass murdering jews. The pilots who crashed into the twin towers believed they would get salvation for their "deed". Pure evil is when someone knows they are doing something bad for the world, and themselves; which in my opinion only exists in fiction.

 

[yossarian22]

Ayn Rand is a fascist.

And a rationalizing moron.

But isn't evil?

Evil is like the word stupid. People use it based on their own judgement.

We always apply words to our own judgment. That is an inevitable consequence of words.

If you want my opinion, all I have to say is that all humans are basically evil.

Then your definition of evil is worthless.

 

[SkylerOcon]

You know, I've been reading a few of your posts, and I must say, you don't do very well hiding your bias against Christians. Nobody on this board who are Christians defends the Bible or their beliefs on the simple basis of "The Bible/God/Jesus said so", or at least to my knowledge. You can either quit generalizing the Christians on this board (and Christians in general), or we could take this to the boot topic.










...Anyways, on the note of this topic, we all possess triats considered evil by the majoirty of the public, such as greed and pride. However, this is a sticky topic, because I don't know if we are "pure" evil. I mean, if we were pure evil, would we really be sharing and helping others? I don't think so, at least...

If you have a problem, tell me in a PM, not here.

 

[blazedaces]

Then your definition of evil is worthless.

And herein lies the problem with this entire topic/debate. I was hoping someone would eventually point this out...

Evil is a word. One man says all people are evil, another that evil doesn't actually exist... and they'll go on for days debating this so-called "fact". You can lump the following words into the same category of useless debates: love, human nature, friendship, heroism, selflessness, selfishness, etc.

These are meaningless arguments where usually neither side realizes their argument is purely based on semantics. You will usually find though that when these words are defined from an objective point of view that most people agree upon that neither extreme is true.

Regardless, the debate is fruitless.

-blazed

 

[TheManaLord]

Evil is subjective and not quantifiable. We are born with instincts, not a measure of good and evil. Which are just ideals that humanity place on behaviors and thought processes. There is no scale, there is no measure. Instinctually and evolutionarily we may be born different, but this is a measure of our humanity in nature, untouched by civilization and society, instincts and primal urges do not hold up here. It is the tempering of a person by nurture, not nature, that makes them "good" or "evil."