Is it really THAT surprising that Metaknight and Snake are top tier?

[LavisFiend]

Seriously, think about it.

If you think of Metaknight as a representation of Sakurai, and Snake as a representation of Kojima, then what have you here is a bias.

It is common sense that Snake got in because Kojima begged him too, and it has already been established that they are buddy-buddy with one another.

We also know by now how Sakurai just LOOOVES to give his franchise the special treatment. There is evidence all over the place to back that claim up. It is also not surprising if you consider just how grossly popular Metaknight was before the game made it to our wii's. He is the "cool" factor of Kirby, and snake is the "cool" third party character.

Truth be told, it would be much more effective had Kirby been a top tier character, but that would really give it a way.

My point is that Sakurai obviously played favorites by making Metaknight how he is, and Snake how he is. It was no error in beta testing. You can't hide their superb movesets. They are beasts by moveset and insane priority.

So there you have it: The top tier characters are in fact, representations of two buddy developers trying to reign superiority over the rest of the characters because they believe their franchises can do no wrong.

 

[Negi-Kun]

It wasn't surprising to begin with.

 

[eskimo bob]

tell me... why hasn't he made kirby as good as he was in ssb64 then? in fact in melee he was one of the worst characters and you don't really have to know about the competitive community at all to know that.

 

[LavisFiend]

tell me... why hasn't he made kirby as good as he was in ssb64 then? in fact in melee he was one of the worst characters and you don't really have to know about the competitive community at all to know that.

I already covered that.

Besides, Kirby is a lot better than how he was in Melee.

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

It wasn't really surprising after all like you said Metaknight is Sakurai's creation. Kojima probaly paid Sakurai to buff up Snake. That or they're really good friends like you said.

 

[SmashAura4]

Sigh......if I hear the words tier, Metaknight, and Snake one more time.......

 

[LavisFiend]

...What are you going to do? Quit?

If not, you might as well; considering you are in a bloody competitive forum.

 

[Zero]

We already know that Brawl was massively influenced by Sakurai's creations, so Meta Knight being the way he is is not suprising at all. We also know Kojima basically begged for Snake to be added, albiet with a lot of money to coerce him, so Snake being amazing isn't suprising either.

No, not at all.

 

[flyinfilipino]

We also know by now how Sakurai just LOOOVES to give his franchise the special treatment. There is evidence all over the place to back that claim up. It is also not surprising if you consider just how grossly popular Metaknight was before the game made it to our wii's. He is the "cool" factor of Kirby, and snake is the "cool" third party character.

But he only added two more characters to his franchise's roster after two games. I agree though, I knew Meta Knight and Snake would be great from the beginning, they just looked so cool.

 

[LavisFiend]

No no, I am not talking about the additional roster slots as proof of him giving his franchise special treatment; not at all.

 

[Patsie]

I mean, when I just first got the game, I thought Snake was absolutely horrible, until I discovered his tilts.

I still hate playing with him, he's not my playstyle at all.

 

[ADHD]

Who cares, he took out everything that made brawl good. Hitstun, etc.

And here we have what? Snake.....? Meta.......?

lol......

 

[retro gamer 6]

not surprised really surprised. thats why i hate meta knight! snake i can handle. but yea sakurai was bias towards meta knight (should've buffed kirby some more instead).

 

[Puddin]

It really isn't that suprising. Mainly because there have to be top tiers, so if it's Sakurais baby and Mr. Tight *** then so be it, but if not them then some other character people would complain about.

 

[LP4Life666]

I believe LavisFiend is actually onto something here. One could assume that, Snake being announced the first "third-party" character, he received special attention. I totally do not doubt this. However, by his logic, would Donkey Kong be considered the favored one of Nintendo, since he can counter both MK AND Snake? No, it's just the way things happened to work out.

Also, look at the trend among newcomers vs. the original 12. Where do they all stand in comparison, now? In melee: Sheik, Falco, and Marth were the newcomers, and they were all top-tier. In Brawl, it turned into Snake, MK, and (arguably) Dedede. THEY became the strongest characters in the game.

Basically what I'm saying is: The newcomers are generally more powerful. People WANT this to happen. They don't want the characters that they were so hyped up for to suck in comparison to the already established characters.

-LP

 

[Noodlehead]

of course its surprising, everybody knows that falcon should of been top tier instead of them.

 

[Neo M.J]

But he only added two more characters to his franchise's roster after two games. I agree though, I knew Meta Knight and Snake would be great from the beginning, they just looked so cool.

But theres hardly any important character left from Kirby now, the only other guy that I can think of who even has a chance left is Zero and he has the Ridley syndrome.

 

[Bowser King]

I'm not surprised. Even in SSE kirby and the rest are given extra roles then the more important characters. Mario had less of a role then kirby, meta and D3.

 

[0RLY]

I'm not surprised. Even in SSE kirby and the rest are given extra roles then the more important characters. Mario had less of a role then kirby, meta and D3.

Snake even gets to save the princesses while Mario and Link are off fighting... yep, you guessed it... goombas. >_>

 

[flyinfilipino]

No no, I am not talking about the additional roster slots as proof of him giving his franchise special treatment; not at all.

What else then? Besides Kirby always being one of the first characters to be revealed, SSE, having the best music, etc.

 

[Dark Nemesis]

Meta Knight is Sakurai's second born baby. Of course he made him the best.

And to all Snake mainers: You should be thanking Kojima's blowjob skills. That's probably why he's god tier.

 

[~Peachy~]

of course its surprising, everybody knows that falcon should of been top tier instead of them.

Ummmmmm... no.

But then again, he shouldn't have been made this bad either. Oh well, there's no use in complaining, what good will it do?

And its funny how almost every topic on here is a ______ bashing party, a huge debate on Melee and Brawl, a newbie asking for help for something although there's a topic right in the stickies, or a someone Spamming just for the heck of it. Well, I guess its just the flow of the General Brawl Discussion sub-forum.

Anyway, I guess you can say its kinda biased. But do game makers really put advantages to their favorite characters? We should get proof to see if other competitive games follow this behavior as well.

And am I the only one who thinks Nintendo is having a R.O.B fetish? He was in Mario Kart DS, a racing game. And now he's in Brawl, a fighting game. What's next? Will he be in some other Nintendo sports game?

 

[flyinfilipino]

And am I the only one who thinks Nintendo is having a R.O.B fetish? He was in Mario Kart DS, a racing game. And now he's in Brawl, a fighting game. What's next? Will he be in some other Nintendo sports game?

When I saw your Peach avatar, pink text, and excess of smileys, I feared for the worst *

If R.O.B. is a character in another game, he'll be a secret character, because Nintendo is afraid to just come out with it! They want R.O.B. to be Nintendo's new mascot.


*but thankfully, you pull it off much better than other people I've seen

 

[znintendotaku]

lavis i respect you now...

 

[~Peachy~]

When I saw your Peach avatar, pink text, and excess of smileys, I feared for the worst *

If R.O.B. is a character in another game, he'll be a secret character, because Nintendo is afraid to just come out with it! They want R.O.B. to be Nintendo's new mascot.


*but thankfully, you pull it off much better than other people I've seen

Not all Peach maining, pink texting, smiley-spammers are arrogant and stupid idiots you know.

Just wanted to point that out.

 

[White Pikmin]

Yeah, i got flammed for saying this before, but...

"You really think the best charater in the game would be a nintendo charater?"

I think its sad how its a nintendo game, then some dude comes in with grenades and C4s, then he's the best

 

[727272216]

lol
That's pretty funny.

But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if R.O.B. was in another Nintendo game. (of course, they'll have to make the jump from Mario games to Nintendo. lol Mario -> Zelda -> Kirby -> Fire Emblem lawlz)

 

[Sosuke]

No, its not.
But then Sonic should be to miright?

 

[PCHU]

I used to think Snake was the worst character in the game (well, just bad in general) but look at him now......

I thought the same of Falco, but look at him now.
And KDDD.....I never expected anything out of him.
Pikachu scares me.
It's thunder has to be a mistake.

 

[Coraircate]

It makes sense for Snake to be top tier. Metaknight, it really doesn't, at least... until you think about Nintendo.

 

[WolfCypher]

Seriously, think about it.

If you think of Metaknight as a representation of Sakurai, and Snake as a representation of Kojima, then what have you here is a bias.

It is common sense that Snake got in because Kojima begged him too, and it has already been established that they are buddy-buddy with one another.

We also know by now how Sakurai just LOOOVES to give his franchise the special treatment. There is evidence all over the place to back that claim up. It is also not surprising if you consider just how grossly popular Metaknight was before the game made it to our wii's. He is the "cool" factor of Kirby, and snake is the "cool" third party character.

Truth be told, it would be much more effective had Kirby been a top tier character, but that would really give it a way.

My point is that Sakurai obviously played favorites by making Metaknight how he is, and Snake how he is. It was no error in beta testing. You can't hide their superb movesets. They are beasts by moveset and insane priority.

So there you have it: The top tier characters are in fact, representations of two buddy developers trying to reign superiority over the rest of the characters because they believe their franchises can do no wrong.

Coincidence, a Smash fan theory, and nothing more. If, say, SSB4 was made by Gamefreak, and Pikachu was top tier, then SSB5 was developed by Miyamoto and Mario was top tier, THEN I'd see a pattern. But that scenario is unpractical. As far as it stands with Brawl, MK, and Snake, what you're saying is quite possible, or just a coincidence.

I read a person's post here months ago about how, no matter how balanced you try and make a character in the development stages, once the game comes out the player will see just how balanced or unbalanced a character is. Sakurai probably had no intention of making Fox as good as he was in Melee. Sakurai probably figured "Fox is fast as hell, but his attacks are fairly weak. Fox has amazing combo-potential, but his weight makes him very easy to KO. There's enough pros and cons...Fox seems balanced." Then the gaming pros took a whack at things and we all discovered how insanely good Fox is. Ideally, the character seems balanced, but its not until the game is released and after countless hours of playing the game that you realize how good or bad a character really is.

There's nothing proving or disproving the topic creator's hypothesis, but that's all it is, a hypothesis. Until the unlikely day that Sakurai takes a lie-detector test and its proven that he purposely made MK and Snake top tier, we can only make an a$$ out of u & me.

 

[AmigoOne]

In any case, even if it wasn't intentional to make them top tier, it's pretty obvious of where the bias is.
With Snake, there WAS no "He's X good, but he'll have Y weakness" in attributes. His speed, knockback, power, and recovery are ALL ridiculous. ALL his moves are KILL moves. He gets super armor type attributes while in his up b, his up b cypher hits above to prevent some attempts for spiking. He's ridiculously heavy for his mobility and recovery. Heavy, but fast (in move lag like tilts). Fast, but hard hitting. Heavy and hard hitting, but with a ridiculously good recovery?

For MK it makes a little bit more sense and isn't as bad, since he originally had wings and be lighting fast with his strikes, it's a bit more believable, his attributes fit a bit better and doesn't semi contradict each other with weakness that should be there but isn't. Still pretty unbalanced though.

Kirby, MK, DDD, all have their share of broken attributes or moves or whatever.

Character attributes may be left up in the air, but if we look at SSE, it's like swinging a brick to the face obvious. If it wasn't for DDD or Kirby, basically, Tabuu would've won. DDD had to be the one to miraculously make the buttons to revive people. DDD had to be the guy to come back to rescue everyone after Tabuu. Kirby had to be to only one out of the decimated group by tabuu to be revived. Kirby had to be the one to come in and singlehandedly demolish the huge spaceship thing that ganondorf and bowser had. Heck, Kirby was the first person you had to start out with. Mario gets owned in the face and the princesses get caught. Who saves the day? Kirby.

/rant

 

[Chileno4Live]

im just a noob, but i think that the player controlling the characters decides if its good or not. I cant play snake or MK at all. They dont suit my playing style. And btw, Mr game and watch is also very good in this game

 

[AnAardvark]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai didn't purposely give Meta Knight an advantage, because how I see it, Meta Knight IS a fast comboer. Snake on the other hand might have been given some advantages on purpose. All of his moves have a purpose and an advantage. His tilts can all KO at small percentages. Yeah, I think you're right about Snake being purposely given some advantages.

 

[SirKibble]

Now let's explain Game & Watch via this theory...

Oops. Never mind.

Seriously, though, I'm sure if there was bias, it was subconscious and unintentional. I mean, if I were making the characters, I'd probably naturally make those I liked cooler/better, without meaning to. It's just something we do as humans, nothing you can blame him for.

 

[Veggi]

Now let's explain Game & Watch via this theory...

Oops. Never mind.

Seriously, though, I'm sure if there was bias, it was subconscious and unintentional. I mean, if I were making the characters, I'd probably naturally make those I liked cooler/better, without meaning to. It's just something we do as humans, nothing you can blame him for.

What I don't understand though is that Sakurai made Snake's moveset, but some of the things he has are unbelievable. Look at his forward tilt, it has crazy range that goes a good distance beyond where he actually hits and does 21%, that's insane. Now look at his up tilt, same thing and they both KO well. Even his standard A combo KO's well. Plus he's the 3rd heaviest character in the game, but he looks no where near as heavy as some of the other characters. I'd understand more if he was a good deal lighter than Samus. How could Sakurai not notice how good he was?

 

[SirKibble]

What I don't understand though is that Sakurai made Snake's moveset, but some of the things he has are unbelievable. Look at his forward tilt, it has crazy range that goes a good distance beyond where he actually hits and does 21%, that's insane. Now look at his up tilt, same thing and they both KO well. Even his standard A combo KO's well. Plus he's the 3rd heaviest character in the game, but he looks no where near as heavy as some of the other characters. I'd understand more if he was a good deal lighter than Samus. How could Sakurai not notice how good he was?

That, my friend, is an excellent question.

 

[1337marth]

I think Metaknight should be, but not snake. Snake is too weird for me. I don't like his moves. Also tiers mean nothing, just what people think are the best, that don't matter, just learn to play as a character, and become great as it, it could be anyone, and then you could beat anyone. Kinda like Gimpyfish's Bowser.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

This annoys me. Playing favorites...? *shakes head* I disapprove.

 

[BEES]

Isn't Captain Falcon Sakurai's favorite character? Explain that one. He was good in the last two games, but c'mon. At least Pichu had some priority.