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Mkleo killed the player using ridley 2 or 3 times using the good old BnB combo during the tournament.Killed at what, 20 or 30% ? But as the others have said already, Mario kept falling out of it.I haven't watched this said fight where everyone booed the player who played Bayo. I've also heard that Sakurai shook his head at what he had seen. Essentially, what happened during the fight? I'm sorry if this might sound dumb since I'm a bit indifferent towards the competitive scene but I'm deeply concerned at everyone saying Bayonetta should be nerfed again.
I definitely don't believe she is, there are a lot of variables on how Leo roofed Plup (Green Greens' ceiling, Ridley's size, Plup's DI, and so on) to properly determine the character's strength.
But what I saw was a character that's already weaker than their previous iteration.
Bayonetta is bugged in the E3 build. MKLeo used 4 double jumps to combo Plup into the blastzone.one thing I've seen no one bring up is that Sakurai may have shook his head in disappointment because of the crowds booing at the character despite all the nerfs he gave to her
I swear the smash community will take everything out of context and twist arguments so that people cant start a flame war without considering other possibilities
If that is the case it will definitely be fixed no matter what bugs in games happen all the time so getting upset about this one specifically is ridiculous but people are extremely overreacting to thisBayonetta is bugged in the E3 build. MKLeo used 4 double jumps to combo Plup into the blastzone.
ZeRo slows down the footage and shows each jump
The other stock taken was, again, 4 double jumps. The fact that this combo was done after Plup hit Bayonetta offstage (in a naturally disadvantageous position) means it's understandable people would be upset. Bayonetta is technically broken in the build, so I don't blame anybody for thinking that she needs fixing.
I don't think it's regular or intended, she jumped again after the combo which took all three of the jumps Bayonetta is intended to have, perhaps the check for how many jumps Bayonetta has left with the triple jump mechanic is bugged?Isn't that just her regular "Third" Jump trick?
Yeah, I know it's possible to pull of the same thing in Smash 4 (without the apparent fourth jump, I think?), but can the Witch Twist by itself when used in the air make the little ring animation that double jumping does? I don't know whether or not it does that honestly lol. If it does then yeah, it is regular behavior, if not though then she jumped three times instead of two before Ridley died because she jumped before using Afterburner-kick, then there was one of those rings during the first Witch Twist then another in the 2nd Witch Twist, which I think means she jumped four times in total? Was that possible originally and am I understanding that correctly, or are those rings naturally there during the aerial Witch Twists even without jumping and everyone's just freaking out over nothing (as usual lol)?Again, it looks like its regular behaviour in Smash 4.
There is a certain frame window after jumping where she can activate Witch Twist and still retain her Airborne Jump, and that can be done with BOTH Witch Twists.
After all this evidence, I can't say it was not intended.
Oh my lanta.**IMPORTANT INFO REGARDING BAYONETTA DOUBLE JUMP FIASCO**
I watched ZeRo's stream, and about Bayonetta's many double jumps. It bugged me, because this was always the case in Smash 4.
What's more, it's PROGRAMMED into the game as a general mechanic - and not just for Bayonetta. Allow me to explain.
Basically, it's there for tap jump users. Let's think logically for a second.
Lets say for the sake of argument, Mario is launched off stage. He's at a distance where he doesn't want to burn his double jump, because he can recover to the ledge with his Up Special easily.
This player is a tap jump user, so, naturally, the player presses upwards on the control stick, so that they can activate his Up Special by then pressing Special.
BUT, the moment they press upwards, the game registers a double jump - frame 1 (I don't recall if the ripples animaton comes out on the same frame, but the moment you press upwards, the game registers that you've used your double jump).
HOWEVER, if you press your Special around 1-3 frames after this, the game preserves your double jump as if you hadn't used it. Essentially, it's a mechanic to allow tap jump users to use their Up Special's without burning their double jump.
Think about it - if this mechanic didn't exist, and the Mario got hit again AFTER using his Up Special - to a distance where he needed to use his double jump, - he'd be screwed, because he wouldn't have it. It'dve been burned.
Let's think of a simpler example. Mega Man can jump after using his Up Special if he still has his double jump. Without this mechanic, tap jump Mega Man players would not be able to double jump after using Up Special off stage/in the air, because they'd lose their double jump upon trying. Do you all get where I'm coming from with this?
This mechanic is less noticeable for most characters because many/most Up Specials put you into freefall anyways, so unless you need it again to recover, you don't notice your double jump is gone. This is why Bayonetta (and to a lesser extent, Mega Man) requires this mechanic to accommodate for all control schemes and types of players. Essentially, if we modded Mario's Up Special to not send into freefall straight after, we'd be able to preserve Mario's double jump in just the same manner.
The only thing I think they should perhaps do, is make it so that Bayonetta cannot use her double jump AGAIN after using her 2nd Witch Twist. Essentially, once she's used all of her Twists, she should just lose her double jump. That, makes sense overall, because she's still effectively had to use her double jump to activate the 2nd Twist.
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As an aside, this is why you see a LOT of tap jump Bayonetta users - such as myself. It is FAR easier to frame perfectly double jump and Up Special with tap jump, because you effectively use just two movements; one with your left thumb (pushing the control stick upwards) and one with your right thumb (pressing special).
With regular controls and tap jump off, you have to press upwards with your left thumb as normal, but then jump and THEN special with your right thumb. Basically, it's harder to frame perfectly do it this way because you have to move your thumbs across different buttons.
Like, I use Marth and Bayonetta. I only use tap jump for her.
there are many ways that could have gotten past testing video games are hard to make and some stuff is bound to slip throughOh my lanta.
This is beautiful. Thankyou for your explanation.
I am kinda curious how that got past testing.
May be a silly question, but do we know yet whether ABK crosses up shields?Nairo and others talked bayonetta about 39 minutes into this stream.
In addition to changes mentioned previously in this thread.
-Bayonetta apparently can only hold Neutral B for a few seconds after full charge before she stops. They can't be held immediately.
-According to these guys you can shield/air dodge cancel Neutral B, but only when it has reached full charge.
-Side B does not crossup on shields. Similar to Fox's new Side B, she is stopped on making contact with a shield and is unable to perform the second kick.
-Ladder combos are only effective at mid to high percents (50% and onward). When Up B has enough knockback to send the victim into a tumble state.
-At previous points of the stream they mention the increased landing lag on N-air extended, as well as F-air1 not comboing into Side B.
Busted means overpowered, basically it's asking if the character is still too strong for the game's health like she was/is in Smash 4.What do we mean by "busted?" When I read the title, I thought someone was wondering if they toned down her breasts like Zero Suit Samus. But the comments are full of gameplay jargon. What are we talking about here?
Thank you. But why not title it "is Bayo still OP?" Is busted meant to be a pun?Busted means overpowered, basically it's asking if the character is still too strong for the game's health like she was/is in Smash 4.
You're confusing "busted" with "busty". They've 2 separate meanings.Thank you. But why not title it "is Bayo still OP?" Is busted meant to be a pun?