Internal Character Mechanics Values

[Amazing Ampharos]

Some of you may be aware of Project Smash Attacks!, a hacking program designed to edit the characters in Brawl in really fundamental ways. This topic utilizes that program in a different way. Using the ability to analyze the attributes of the characters in raw form, I've compiled rating lists for what I feel are the 11 most significant (and non-obvious) attributes characters have. Many thanks to Dantarion for his script that dumped the values out of the .pac files.

Walk Top Speed

1. Marth (1.5)
2. Fox (1.45)
3. Sonic (1.40)
4. Zero Suit Samus (1.33)
5. Sheik (1.30)
5. Wolf (1.30)
7. Falco (1.28)
8. Diddy Kong (1.25)
9. Pikachu (1.24)
10. Meta Knight (1.22)
10. Toon Link (1.22)
12. Donkey Kong (1.20)
12. Link (1.20)
12. Squirtle (1.20)
15. Pit (1.18)
16. Yoshi (1.15)
17. Mario (1.10)
17. Mr. Game & Watch (1.10)
17. R.O.B. (1.10)
20. Luigi (1.08)
21. Ivysaur (1.05)
21. Samus (1.05)
23. Lucario (1.00)
24. Ice Climbers (0.96)
25. King Dedede (0.95)
25. Kirby (0.95)
27. Olimar (0.90)
28. Ike (0.88)
29. Ness (0.86)
29. Peach (0.86)
31. Captain Falcon (0.85)
31. Wario (0.85)
33. Snake (0.84)
34. Lucas (0.82)
35. Bowser (0.80)
35. Zelda (0.80)
37. Ganondorf (0.73)
38. Charizard (0.70)
38. Jigglypuff (0.70)

Dash/Foxtrot Speed

1. Fox (2.10)
2. Captain Falcon (2.05)
3. Falco (1.90)
4. Samus (1.86)
5. Lucario (1.80)
5. Pikachu (1.80)
7. Meta Knight (1.75)
8. Diddy Kong (1.70)
8. Sheik (1.70)
8. Wolf (1.70)
8. Zero Suit Samus (1.70)
12. Donkey Kong (1.60)
12. Squirtle (1.60)
14. Ike (1.50)
14. Mario (1.50)
14. Marth (1.50)
14. Mr. Game & Watch (1.50)
14. Peach (1.50)
14. Pit (1.50)
14. Sonic (1.50)
14. Toon Link (1.50)
22. Ice Climbers (1.40)
22. Ivysaur (1.40)
22. Jigglypuff (1.40)
22. King Dedede (1.40)
22. Kirby (1.40)
22. Olimar (1.40)
28. Yoshi (1.33)
29. Charizard (1.30)
29. Ganondorf (1.30)
29. Link (1.30)
29. Lucas (1.30)
29. Ness (1.30)
29. R.O.B. (1.30)
29. Wario (1.30)
36. Luigi (1.28)
37. Zelda (1.25)
38. Snake (1.10)
39. Bowser (1.00)

Running Speed

1. Sonic (3.50)
2. Captain Falcon (2.18)
3. Fox (2.08)
4. Zero Suit Samus (1.93)
5. Sheik (1.92)
6. Meta Knight (1.85)
7. Charizard (1.80)
8. Pikachu (1.76)
9. Diddy Kong (1.72)
10. Marth (1.70)
11. Yoshi (1.68)
12. Toon Link (1.65)
13. Donkey Kong (1.62)
14. Pit (1.58)
15. Mr. Game & Watch (1.55)
16. Bowser (1.53)
17. Ivysaur (1.50)
17. Lucas (1.50)
17. Mario (1.50)
17. R.O.B. (1.50)
21. Samus (1.45)
22. Falco (1.43)
23. Lucario (1.41)
24. Olimar (1.40)
24. Wolf (1.40)
26. Ice Climbers (1.39)
26. Ness (1.39)
28. Ike (1.37)
28. Kirby (1.37)
28. Squirtle (1.37)
31. Peach (1.35)
31. Snake (1.35)
31. Wario (1.35)
34. Luigi (1.34)
35. Link (1.33)
36. King Dedede (1.22)
36. Zelda (1.22)
38. Ganondorf (1.16)
39. Jigglypuff (1.10)

Acceleration Due to Gravity

1. Fox (0.17)
2. Sheik (0.14)
3. Wolf (0.13)
4. Falco (0.11)
4. Squirtle (0.11)
6. Bowser (0.10)
6. Captain Falcon (0.10)
6. Ganondorf (0.10)
6. Meta Knight (0.10)
10. Charizard (0.09)
10. Diddy Kong (0.09)
10. Link (0.09)
10. Lucas (0.09)
10. Pikachu (0.09)
10. Sonic (0.09)
10. Zero Suit Samus (0.09)
17. Donkey Kong (0.08)
17. Ice Climbers (0.08)
17. Ike (0.08)
17. King Dedede (0.08)
17. Mario (0.08)
17. Mr. Game & Watch (0.08)
17. Pit (0.08)
17. Snake (0.08)
17. Wario (0.08)
26. Ivysaur (0.07)
26. Marth (0.07)
26. Ness (0.07)
26. Toon Link (0.07)
26. Yoshi (0.07)
26. Zelda (0.07)
32. Kirby (0.06)
32. Lucario (0.06)
32. Luigi (0.06)
32. Olimar (0.06)
32. Peach (0.06)
32. R.O.B. (0.06)
32. Samus (0.06)
39. Jigglypuff (0.05)

Acceleration Due to Gravity Boost While Fastfalling

1. Wario (0.08)
2. Jigglypuff (0.04)
3. Ness (0.02)
3. Sheik (0.02)
3. Squirtle (0.02)
6. Bowser (0.01)
6. Captain Falcon (0.01)
6. Charizard (0.01)
6. Diddy Kong (0.01)
6. Donkey Kong (0.01)
6. Falco (0.01)
6. Fox (0.01)
6. Ganondorf (0.01)
6. Ice Climbers (0.01)
6. Ike (0.01)
6. Ivysaur (0.01)
6. King Dedede (0.01)
6. Kirby (0.01)
6. Lucas (0.01)
6. Luigi (0.01)
6. Mario (0.01)
6. Meta Knight (0.01)
6. Mr. Game & Watch (0.01)
6. Peach (0.01)
6. Pikachu (0.01)
6. Pit (0.01)
6. Olimar (0.01)
6. Samus (0.01)
6. Sonic (0.01)
6. Toon Link (0.01)
6. Yoshi (0.01)
6. Zelda (0.01)
6. Zero Suit Samus (0.01)
34. Link (0.00)
34. Lucario (0.00)
34. Marth (0.00)
34. R.O.B. (0.00)
34. Snake (0.00)
34. Wolf (0.00)

Normal Fall Terminal Velocity

1. King Dedede (1.95)
2. Captain Falcon (1.84)
3. Fox (1.83)
4. Wolf (1.80)
5. Snake (1.73)
6. Falco (1.71)
7. Ganondorf (1.65)
7. Ike (1.65)
9. Link (1.60)
10. Donkey Kong (1.58)
10. Sheik (1.58)
12. Marth (1.50)
12. Pikachu (1.50)
14. Sonic (1.45)
15. Diddy Kong (1.43)
15. Zero Suit Samus (1.43)
17. Pit (1.42)
18. Wario (1.40)
19. Bowser (1.39)
19. Meta Knight (1.39)
21. Lucas (1.37)
22. Charizard (1.35)
22. Ivysaur (1.35)
24. Ness (1.31)
25. Olimar (1.30)
25. Squirtle (1.30)
27. Yoshi (1.29)
28. Mario (1.28)
28. Toon Link (1.28)
30. Mr. Game & Watch (1.24)
31. Luigi (1.22)
32. Ice Climbers (1.20)
32. Kirby (1.20)
32. Lucario (1.20)
32. R.O.B. (1.20)
36. Zelda (1.13)
37. Samus (1.07)
38. Peach (1.05)
39. Jigglypuff (0.98)

Fastfalling Terminal Velocity

1. King Dedede (2.73)
2. Link (2.67)
3. Captain Falcon (2.57)
4. Fox (2.56)
5. Snake (2.42)
6. Falco (2.39)
7. Pikachu (2.38)
8. Ganondorf (2.31)
8. Ike (2.31)
10. Donkey Kong (2.21)
10. Sheik (2.21)
12. Marth (2.10)
12. Squirtle (2.10)
14. Diddy Kong (2.00)
14. Sonic (2.00)
14. Zero Suit Samus (2.00)
17. Pit (1.99)
18. Wario (1.96)
19. Bowser (1.95)
19. Meta Knight (1.95)
21. Lucas (1.92)
22. Kirby (1.90)
22. Toon Link (1.90)
22. Wolf (1.90)
25. Charizard (1.89)
25. Ivysaur (1.89)
27. Ness (1.83)
28. Olimar (1.82)
29. Yoshi (1.81)
30. Mario (1.79)
31. Mr. Game & Watch (1.74)
32. Luigi (1.71)
33. Ice Climbers (1.68)
33. Lucario (1.68)
33. R.O.B. (1.68)
36. Zelda (1.58)
37. Samus (1.50)
38. Peach (1.47)
39. Jigglypuff (1.37)

Base Aerial Mobility

1. Wario (0.30)
2. Squirtle (0.11)
3. Peach (0.10)
4. Ivysaur (0.09)
4. Lucas (0.09)
4. Ness (0.09)
4. Pikachu (0.09)
4. Zelda (0.09)
4. Zero Suit Samus (0.09)
10. Fox (0.08)
10. Ice Climbers (0.08)
10. Jigglypuff (0.08)
10. Kirby (0.08)
10. Luigi (0.08)
10. Mario (0.08)
10. Sheik (0.08)
10. Toon Link (0.08)
10. Wolf (0.08)
19. Falco (0.07)
19. Lucario (0.07)
19. Marth (0.07)
19. Meta Knight (0.07)
19. Olimar (0.07)
19. Yoshi (0.07)
25. Pit (0.06)
26. Captain Falcon (0.05)
26. Charizard (0.05)
26. Diddy Kong (0.05)
26. Donkey Kong (0.05)
26. Samus (0.05)
31. Bowser (0.04)
31. Ike (0.04)
31. King Dedede (0.04)
31. Link (0.04)
31. Sonic (0.04)
36. Ganondorf (0.03)
36. Mr. Game & Watch (0.03)
38. Snake (0.02)
39. R.O.B. (0.01)

Aerial Mobility Boost While Decelerating

1. Mr. Game & Watch (0.07)
2. Jigglypuff (0.05)
3. R.O.B. (0.04)
3. Samus (0.04)
3. Wario (0.04)
6. Kirby (0.03)
7. Bowser (0.01)
7. Captain Falcon (0.01)
7. Charizard (0.01)
7. Donkey Kong (0.01)
7. Falco (0.01)
7. Fox (0.01)
7. Ganondorf (0.01)
7. Ice Climbers (0.01)
7. Ike (0.01)
7. Ivysaur (0.01)
7. King Dedede (0.01)
7. Link (0.01)
7. Lucas (0.01)
7. Mario (0.01)
7. Marth (0.01)
7. Meta Knight (0.01)
7. Ness (0.01)
7. Olimar (0.01)
7. Peach (0.01)
7. Pikachu (0.01)
7. Pit (0.01)
7. Sheik (0.01)
7. Snake (0.01)
7. Sonic (0.01)
7. Squirtle (0.01)
7. Toon Link (0.01)
7. Wolf (0.01)
7. Yoshi (0.01)
7. Zelda (0.01)
7. Zero Suit Samus (0.01)
37. Diddy Kong (0.00)
37. Lucario (0.00)
37. Luigi (0.00)

Maximum Air Speed

1. Yoshi (1.32)
2. Jigglypuff (1.27)
3. Wario (1.22)
3. Wolf (1.22)
5. Captain Falcon (1.18)
6. Sonic (1.11)
7. Donkey Kong (1.08)
7. Mr. Game & Watch (1.08)
7. Squirtle (1.08)
10. Lucas (1.05)
11. Bowser (1.03)
11. Marth (1.03)
11. Zero Suit Samus (1.03)
14. Charizard (0.99)
14. Lucario (0.99)
14. Samus (0.99)
14. Zelda (0.99)
18. Ness (0.96)
19. Mario (0.94)
19. Snake (0.94)
19. Toon Link (0.94)
22. Ike (0.92)
23. Pikachu (0.91)
24. Falco (0.89)
24. Fox (0.89)
24. Peach (0.89)
24. Pit (0.89)
24. R.O.B. (0.89)
29. Ganondorf (0.85)
29. Kirby (0.85)
29. Sheik (0.85)
32. Diddy Kong (0.83)
33. Olimar (0.82)
34. Link (0.81)
35. Ice Climbers (0.77)
36. Ivysaur (0.75)
36. Meta Knight (0.75)
38. Luigi (0.73)
39. King Dedede (0.66)

Weight/Launch Resistance

1. Bowser (120)
2. Donkey Kong (116)
3. Snake (113)
4. King Dedede (112)
5. Charizard (110)
6. Ganondorf (109)
7. Samus (108)
8. Wario (107)
8. Yoshi (107)
10. R.O.B. (106)
11. Ike (105)
12. Captain Falcon (104)
12. Link (104)
14. Wolf (102)
15. Ivysaur (100)
15. Lucario (100)
17. Mario (98)
18. Luigi (97)
19. Sonic (95)
20. Lucas (94)
20. Ness (94)
20. Pit (94)
23. Diddy Kong (93)
24. Ice Climbers (92)
24. Toon Link (92)
26. Peach (90)
27. Marth (87)
28. Sheik (85)
28. Zelda (85)
30. Falco (82)
30. Olimar (82)
32. Zero Suit Samus (81)
33. Fox (80)
34. Meta Knight (79)
34. Pikachu (79)
36. Kirby (78)
37. Mr. Game & Watch (75)
37. Squirtle (75)
39. Jigglypuff (68)

I tried to use easily understood names for these values, and hopefully it's formatted so people don't have to understand too much of the technical details to find this useful. If the significance of these values is unclear, I'll try to explain them.

One issue of great note is that the two "boost" categories are additive to the categories before them. For instance, "Acceleration Due to Gravity Boost While Fastfalling" is the value of how much more your acceleration due to gravity is when fastfalling as opposed to normal falling. If you want your total acceleration due to gravity while fastfalling, you must add the two values.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Nice job mining this data

 

[SuSa]

Even though I've had this data for a few days, nice job putting it there. =]

 

[Frown]

Finally, an acceleration list! I always wanted to see one of those.

 

[Jupz]

Nice data

 

[Browny]

Hooray for values where mario isnt used as the base value, as if that was ever an accurate measure for anything lol

 

[Shaya]

Yeah :D

I just find Wario's everything like ridiculous LOL.

I think for the sake of easiness to read,
Could you atleast bunch characters with the same value together as 'one', and seperate with a space? maybe even colouration...

And "Aerial mobility boost whilst decelerating"
is this the definition of how fast a character can return to 0 velocity before moving towards their aerial mobility after being hit?
Or is it from moving forward at good speed then starting to 'stop' holding a direction (or moving backwards?)

 

[Flayl]

Running Speed:
16. Bowser (1.53)

Maximum Air Speed:
11. Bowser (1.03)

I swear if I see someone say Bowser is slow again I'm going to do something drastic.

Laggy yes, slow no.

Thanks for the definitive values, Amazing Ampharos.

 

[Adapt]

Is "Maximum Air Speed" in the horizontal direction?

The weight stats track the ones we already had very closely... (taken from the base knockback of 0 KBG moves) just instead of calling mario 100, he is now 98, and the range has shrunken slightly

Also, Wario's aerial mobility is ridiculous.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

whoa fox is heavier than MK?

 

[hotgarbage]

Awesome stuff

 

[T-block]

Good stuff...thanks AA

One question - what exactly does base aerial mobility refer to?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I should explain the three aerial mobility values a bit more since this seems to be snagging people a bit. For one, yes, all three are purely horizontal. The first one "Base Aerial Mobility" is the acceleration characters have. For instance, if Wario jumps straight up and then holds right, he'll accelerate to the right with acceleration 0.30. They then accelerate toward their top speed which is the third value "Maximum Air Speed". The second value, the boost while decelerating, is a bit quirky and something I don't think many of us expected existed. When you are slowing down horizontally in the air, this value is added to your "Base Aerial Mobility". For instance, in the Wario example, if he were to hold right for a while and then suddenly start holding left, his speed would decrease with acceleration 0.34 and approach 0. From 0, he'd then begin accelerating to the left with acceleration 0.30 again. This isn't a very important value for most characters (most characters have a pretty small value of 0.01, and three of the remaining have the pretty close value of 0.00), but it has to be included because it's a major game changer in the aerial mobility of a few characters (mostly Mr. Game & Watch, Jigglypuff, and R.O.B.).

Also, with Bowser, I'd just say to look at the full picture all the values paint. He has a few values that are pretty good (the two you highlighted), but he also has a lot of mobility related values that are pretty bad. His base aerial mobility is a poor 0.04 (tied with Ike, King Dedede, Link, and Sonic) without any special deceleration boost to compensate. That means, while he can get moving pretty fast in the air, his ability to change his speed via air control is fairly mediocre. Likewise, his running speed is slightly above average, but his initial boost of speed from dashing/foxtrotting is the single worst in the game, and his walk speed is so bad that walking is probably not a viable mobility option for Bowser. Also, I didn't get into it, but ground mobility is actually an 8 parameter system that I simplified to 3 parameter. Two of the excluded values relate to walking before you reach top speed (and are really not that important), but Bowser has pretty poor values in both of them. Bowser has a pretty average "Stopping Velocity" which I believe is the speed at which you can stop a walk. Then you have two more values for the "pivot" (one slowing down and one speeding up) that explain Squirtle's ridiculous momentum boost, and for those values, Bowser is somewhat poor (way below average deceleration and average acceleration). Then you have other values like the number of frames jumping off the ground takes for which Bowser has the second worst value at 8 frames (Snake has the worst at 9 frames; the most typical value is 5 frames).

The point is that these values are important (overall probably the most important values), but they don't tell the whole story (characters have hundreds of individual attributes, most of which are not understood yet). Also, interpreting Bowser as anything but below average in terms of speed is a pretty selective reading of the values anyway. I think it's fair to assert that Bowser's overall mobility isn't horrible (it's certainly much better than Ganondorf's), but I don't think you can call anyone other than Ganondorf slow if you aren't willing to call Bowser slow (most of the other slow characters have a few decent parameters as well) so I'd have to call him slow. Granted, there is a fairly absurd part of smash culture that assumes slow = bad which is obviously not true. Snake is slow and blatantly top tier and the generally considered pretty good King Dedede is slow too; there's more to a character than speed. I don't really think Bowser is good (just being honest), but if I were to look at his virtues, I'd focus on things like the huge amount of damage and knockback so many of his moves do or the fact that he's the single heaviest character. You know, the natural strengths he has as a heavyweight... Instead of trying to deny the sloth of your character, wouldn't it make more sense to fix the misconception that slow characters are always bad?

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Running Speed:
16. Bowser (1.53)

Maximum Air Speed:
11. Bowser (1.03)

I swear if I see someone say Bowser is slow again I'm going to do something drastic.

Laggy yes, slow no.

Thanks for the definitive values, Amazing Ampharos.

bowser def has animation delay with his aerials, but with ff and spacing its not that big of a deal really

 

[Luigi player]

Thanks for the clarification of the values and for posting them!

Will you post other ones too? I mean, they might not be that important, but anything helps... I think the jump and landing frames would help...

 

[ArcPoint]

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Boxob.]

This is actually really cool.

But I can't think of anything else to say about it lolol. Good stuff.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I have a question, those values for acceleration/deceleration. What is the framerate of their incrementation?

Also...like, I'd like to hear the exact mechanics on the relationship between jumping from a standstill, walk, run, midair jumping, and how this affects momentum. It's something we probably have a good feel for inherently, but would probably be cool if it was explained.

All I know is that this isn't Melee where your ground momentum seems to directly carry into your jump (probably the biggest nerf for Captain Falcon along with his moveset in general).

 

[demonictoonlink]

Didn't realize how light MK is...

 

[The Truth!]

Wow, this information is awesome. I have a couple questions I hope I can get answered though.

1) How do base mobility and acceleration increase in rate? Is it by frame? i.e. if pikachu is .9 and MK is .7 will pikachu be at .18 and MK .14 after two frames? etc.

2.a
Is there any value for upward verticle acceleration? Is it just the negative of the gravity acceleration? And is it potentially different from their second jump?

b. And is there a way to determine the initial upward velocity of a characters jump (i.e. I hope that it might be something like the normal fall terminal velocity, though thatd probably be very wishful thinking ). What about their second (or more) jumps?

You mightve guessed but knowing the deceleration of a jump and its initial velocity would be great info for determining jumps, although I suspect its not that easy...and that things might get weird with multi jumpers.

3) I know you excluded several values you felt were unimportant, but I would be very interested to see those, even if you seperated them as something that arent as important as the ones you listed. i.e. stopping velocities, pivots, etc.

Thanks for all the cool stuff already.

 

[BSP]

Thanks for the info. Nice to know that Sonic actually falls faster than a good majority of the cast.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Wth? This is a year old. Nice necro. How did you find this?

 

[Dantarion]

http://i36.tinypic.com/14j193p.png
Do people care enough for me to bother making a big deal about this?

 

[Spelt]

...What is that?

 

[Dantarion]

ledgegrab range

 

[hotgarbage]

http://i36.tinypic.com/14j193p.png
Do people care enough for me to bother making a big deal about this?

I'd say so, that's really neat. I knew ledge grab range in Brawl was ridiculous... but not THAT ridiculous. Does the base range vary between characters, or is it about the same? I'd be interested in seeing the ledge grab range for some up-b's, as that's obviously variable (and some of them seem really stupid).

 

[deepseadiva]

http://i36.tinypic.com/14j193p.png
Do people care enough for me to bother making a big deal about this?

Yes please por favor.

 

[Dantarion]

YES.
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc144/condo265/falconledgegrab.png

 

[Kofu]

so, are the ledgegrab boxes rectangles?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The tether recovery rnages would be interesting to see. Espically ZSS's.

 

[phi1ny3]

wow lucario's is gonna be huge

and wow I totally remember this thread.

 

[Spelt]

Necroing to ask for a sticky. I'm sick of sifting through threads to find this whenever I need it, which is often.


(Also it would be better fit in the data & rulesets thread.)

 

[teluoborg]

Have you ever thought about subscribing to it ?

 

[san.]

This is worth being necro'd. Data such as traction that we have should also be included.

 

[B.A.M.]

I do believe that sonic has the fastest max air speed when he performs his spinshot AT. FYI. And yes san it is definitely worthy

 

[Spelt]

Have you ever thought about subscribing to it ?

i don't subscribe to threads, it's a waste imo.
but wouldn't it only show up in my subscribed threads if there's a new post? which wouldn't happen when it's been dead for months and nobody can find it...

This is worth being necro'd. Data such as traction that we have should also be included.

I agree. Traction data would be nice. I remember seeing it somewhere but idr enough about where it was to try and search for it.

I do believe that sonic has the fastest max air speed when he performs his spinshot AT. FYI. And yes san it is definitely worthy

It's only taking into account the maximum air speed you can get from regular DI. not counting individual moves. but if we did, i think marth's fully charged shield breaker would win.