In Depth Attack Statistics (Update: Reorganized)

[ph00tbag]

Here are my new results, can you confirm?

Late aerial:

2676 at 9%
9717 at 309%

KGR: 23.47
Base: 2464.77

Spike: (early aerial)

2931 at 12%
12907 at 312%

KGR: 33.253
Base: 2531.96

and for comparison purposes: Bair

bair:
2129 at 13%
12822 at 313%

KGR: 35.643
base: 1665.64

That might be what does it. I don't remember if I initially did this in slow brawl or not.

Although that makes sense, come to think of it. In slow brawl, your opponent travels slower. Maybe the mechanism the designers use to measure launch speed doesn't compensate for slow brawl. That's another thing that would need testing.

 

[Adapt]

On a hunch that all moves are messed up in slow brawl, I checked the dair spike as well because it makes sense you would have done it in slow brawl to time it better

I get:

1727 at 5%
6185 At 305%

KGR = 14.86
Base = 1652.7

I'll add it in tomorrow maybe, after I check some more moves


Edit: Maybe the game calculates the farthest distance that a move will hit someone, then calculates the time it will take to get there, and then determines the launch velocity from that. Since the distance hit appears to be unchanged in slow/normal it just takes around twice as long. Therefor you get your knockback speed being around half what it should be.

 

[FadedImage]

now that brawl is starting to get hacked, can we start getting some frame data on these things? That would help a crap load.

 

[Bouse]

Something that might be nice to add is approximate priority, just like high/med/low that kind of stuff.

 

[DeliciousCake]

now that brawl is starting to get hacked, can we start getting some frame data on these things? That would help a crap load.

If you can somehow come up with a code for the Gecko that can show hitboxes then by all means make one. It's not like it wouldn't take a long time.

 

[Adapt]

I do not have the Gecko anyways... Frame data would be really nice, but it will have to come from someone else prolly.

 

[FadedImage]

was gonna tell you to ask cake, TOO LATE.

 

[Bouse]

http://smash.scribblewiki.com/Zamus has some frame data that Cake compiled

 

[Adapt]

I got some from another topic that came from 3god. His way of obtaining the frame data is more precise imo
I'll upload it when I have a bit of time (at work right now)

Stuff from 3god here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186524

 

[Adapt]

*Internet hiccup*

 

[FadedImage]

How did each of them get their data, and why is 3God's a more accurate method?

 

[3GOD]

How did each of them get their data, and why is 3God's a more accurate method?

Here is the thread where that discussion took place:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186524

 

[DeliciousCake]

Basically, using a stopwatch allows for much more human error, hence why I did so many trials in mine, and even then I still came out with results of half frames, etc. De-interlacing the video allows you to just count each frame as you watch it.

 

[ph00tbag]

Heh, now that dspecial is correctly represented, it's pretty obvious that the late aerial hit and late grounded hit are the same in every way.

 

[Adapt]

Hey ph00tbag, can I ask you about the new data you gave me for the Usmash?

Knockback of 3303, KGR of 0

what happens when charged? and is that it first or last hit?


Also: updated the rest of the new data

 

[ph00tbag]

Hey ph00tbag, can I ask you about the new data you gave me for the Usmash?

Knockback of 3303, KGR of 0

what happens when charged? and is that it first or last hit?

That's the first hit, and as I recall, it is not affected by charging.

 

[Adapt]

New Update: Frame data

It's not complete, but still good to have.
I will check with 3GOD to see if he can get the rest of the data for us. Especially on d-special, which is the move I am most interested in

 

[Blizzaga]

Really nice research ...

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm not sure about those data for the landing lag of uair and nair. I never feel like there's any lag on the latter, and the former always feels about as laggy as fair to me. 3GOD, are you sure about this.

Also, Paralyzer needs frame data for the charged shot.

 

[Adapt]

I know what you mean ph00tbag, I asked 3GOD about some of the data, but he hasn't gotten back to me.

Also: UPDATE

I found while testing the spikes in brawl (for the topic in tactical discussion) that her Up-Special can spike with two completely different hitboxes. You get a much stronger spike when you hit the enemy with the tip of the whip as it is rising that if you hit them at the apex.
I'm fairly certain that this has been seen before, but it has never been noted to my knowledge.

I have a whole load of info on the other spikes in the game, but I'm not quite finished it so I won't post it yet.

 

[Adapt]

New Update: A bit more frame data for the flip-jump

Looks like for a lot of physical (not disjointed) attacks there is only 7 frames of vulnerability in the jump between the invincibility ending and the flipstool jump beginning.

 

[Emblem Lord]

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww@ her rolls.

 

[DeliciousCake]

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww@ her rolls.

Yes, we determined that they sucked many moons ago.

 

[Adapt]

Added an update that I have been meaning to make for a couple weeks now.

- Up-Special knockback info completely redone thanks to Faded
- Added a little blurb about the smash-charge vulnerability (promoting my own threads can't hurt can it?)

 

[FadedImage]

dude, when I read your thread about charging smashes I oozed. amazing find. I was wondering why I would get ***** so hard when I was charging D-Smash for edgeguard and got hit out of it!

 

[Snakeee]

good find Adapt. Well I hardly ever charge my smashes anyway except sometimes up smash but thats usually from a pretty safe position.

 

[FadedImage]

I hardly ever charge my smashes anyway except sometimes up smash but thats usually from a pretty safe position.

Yeah, I noticed that... You really should try charging the D-Smash. I see a lot of opportunities in your vids where if you had just charged for a couple more frames you woulda got the stun. It's a really good smash to charge because the charge frame is really late in the animation, so once you release it's like, no time at all before the hitbox comes out. Plus it's hard to punish anyways since after you release you're basically free to do anything.

 

[Adapt]

Hey guys, I was looking at Smaci's IC thread similar to this and he made a table, It looks easier to read so I decided to make my own.

Would it be best to organize the data like this:

and have the frame data all in one place at the end?
I would include the frame data in the table, but I don't have enough of it, there would be too many blank squares

 

[ph00tbag]

Hey guys, I was looking at Smaci's IC thread similar to this and he made a table, It looks easier to read so I decided to make my own.

Looks like a good idea. It would certainly be easier to read.

 

[Snakeee]

That sounds good, but we'd need the frame data too. Btw, I was told that ZSS' jab is actually 2 frames. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Adapt]

3GOD got the frame data saying it was 1 frame... And I seem to remember it was correlated by someone else, but I can't remember.

 

[DeliciousCake]

3GOD got the frame data saying it was 1 frame... And I seem to remember it was correlated by someone else, but I can't remember.

Me.

 

[Adapt]

There is also confirmation from this source:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202204

 

[Adapt]

Ok I got the stuff in tabular format now.

Next I have to organize the frame data in a similar fashion. Pity it will be full of empty spaces

 

[Hence]

With this information organized in tables, it's much easier to read.
+10 Happy Points

 

[DeliciousCake]

Adapt, want me to send you all of my old frame data info?

 

[Adapt]

Sure, I was actually gonna ask you for it because I noticed it is no longer at that site.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Yeah, I dunno what happened to the site, but I still have it all archived. I'll email it to you.

 

[Adapt]

ok, I got the frame data in tabular form, but there is a fair bit missing (not even including the frame advantages and such...)

Some of this is probably a couple frames off though. I highlighted any discrepancies of more than a couple frames between my 3 sources

(3GOD, Cake, and http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202204)

I wish I had recording equipment so I could find the rest of this myself...

 

[A New England Winter]

Just a quick notice, sorry if this counts as necroposting, but I noticed the Smash Attacks and Aerials charts will not load. Have they been deleted from their image host?