DizzyDevilx
Smash Rookie
*This is still a work in progress - I will try to update this as regularly as I can*
I'm not sure if somebody else has written about this yet. I did a quick search on the forums and didn't see anything that mentions about this. But I think this discovery warrants the redemption of the Ike's much underrated down tilt, to put it mildly.
Ike's down tilt is arguably the least favourite and most unused move in Ike's moveset due to the long start-up time, crappy knock-out power, and very limited uses as a spike. I hope this contribution will benefit the Ike community by introducing a whole new area in Ike's metagame and raising his overall competitiveness as a brawl character.
I discovered this insanely powerful move by accident while playing a 4 man free-for-all online with anyone. While near the edge, I did a down tilt out of shield on Marth and it killed him...at 55%. It knocked him horizontally across the stage with so much power that he was unable to get out of hit-stun before he KO'd.
The down tilt animation goes like this - Ike crouches, winds the sword with his right arm behind his head and swipes across the floor. At full power (without move degradation) down tilt does 14% damage regardless if you hit at the tip or at the hilt. If you connect with the blade while the opponent is grounded, the opponent is launched vertically upwards with kill percents at 125%+. However if you are close enough to the opponent to connect with the hilt, the opponent is launched horizontally which massive knockback power. In fact, this knockback power is so insane that is has more knockout power than a getting hit by a fully charged upsmash at the edge of Final Destination.
I've started working on collecting empirical data for the moveset kill percentages for a sweetspotted down tilt on every character - using the center and edges of Final Destination as benchmarks. I used the lowest percentage for knockout on a lvl 9 stationary computer in training mode. (The CPU does not DI, but it will airdodge and attempt to recover the frame it gets out of hitstun with perfect reflex). I included the moveset kill percentages for a majority of Ike's moves against Marth to illustrate how the ssdtilt (sweetspotted down tilt) is the Ike's second most powerful uncharged move next to forward smash
Against Marth:
Vertical launches
up tilt (front/back): 100% / 134%
down tilt (non sweetspot): 126%
up air (grounded opponent): 99%
down air (grounded opponent: tip/blade): 115% / 118%
up smash (uncharged/fully charged): 98% / 61%
down smash 1st hit at front [hilt/blade] (uncharged/fully charged): [122%/126%] / 80%
down smash 2nd hit at back [hilt/blade] (uncharged/fully charged): [99%/100%] / 61%
eruption (uncharged): 119%
eruption (flashing red): 2%
quick draw [point blank/full length] (uncharged): 190% / 193%
quick draw [point blank/full length] (fully charged): 102% / 110%
Horizontal launches: {center of stage} / [edge of stage]
forward smash (uncharged): {48%} / [30%]
forward smash (fully charged): {20%} / [5%]
down tilt (sweet spotted): {85%} / [55%]
forward tilt: {93%} / [64%]
forward air (grounded opponent): {125%} / [93%]
back air (ground opponent): {109%} / [76%]
As you can see, down tilt is the second strongest uncharged KO move in Ike's moveset next to forward smash but its nearly 3 times faster. Another huge advantage it has over forward smash is the ability to shield poke. Even if the opponent is blocking, there's a very high chance the down tilt will connect - making this move absolute pwnage.
Possible ways to approach with the sweet spotted down tilt (ssdtilt):
Incancus Combo *Sorry, I couldn't resist
*: Time the Quick Draw so that you slide right in front of the opponent and immediately execute a down tilt attack. If your opponent blocks they better pray that their shields don't get poked through.
Sidestep/Roll: Get familiar with the sidestep/roll distance so that you can sidestep/roll just right behind him and pull off a sweetspotted down tilt.
Short hop + airdodge: Short hop towards your opponent and as you are landing airdodge. You can either ground cancel the airdodge or let the airdodge finish before doing a sweet spotted down tilt.
Dashing Shield: Dash at your opponent and just as you approach put up your shield. The momentum should allow you to slide right into him and in perfect range for a sweetspotted down tilt. If you can anticipate an attack and powershield it, even better.
More kill percentages
Some characters cannot be ssdtilted like Bowser and DK whereas others are very difficult to ssdtilt though it can be done eg. Link.
Character (center of stage / edge of stage)
* means that although they don't get KO'd before hitstun ends, this is the lowest percentage they can get back onto the stage with their recovery @ lvl 9 CPU
Mario:
ssdtilt - (92% / 60%)
forward tilt - (99% / 68%)
Link: (Very hard to ssdtilt)
ssdtilt - (94% / 61% ) - *(93% / 48%)
forward tilt - (100% / 67%) -*(100 / 57%)
Samus:
ssdtilt - (98% / 64%)
forward tilt - (106% / 71%)
Fox:
ssdtilt - (97% / 50%)
forward tilt - (87% / 59%)
Pikachu:
ssdtilt - (81% / 53%)
forward tilt - (88% / 61%)
Marth *see above example for more comprehensive list:
ssdtilt - (85% / 55%)
forward tilt - (93% / 64%)
Luigi:
ssdtilt - (85% / 56%)
forward tilt - (93% / 66%)
Diddy Kong:
ssdtilt - (96% / 59%)
forward tilt - (105% / 68%)
Zelda:
ssdtilt - (85% / 55%)
forward tilt - (105% / 68%)
Ike:
ssdtilt - (97% / 62%) -*(82% / 34%)
forward tilt - (104% / 75%) - *(* / 50%)
Olimar:
ssdtilt - (84% / 56%)
forward tilt - (90% / 62%)
The rest of the characters I only did percentages for ssdtilt
Falco - 84% / 53%
Squirtle - 78% / 52%
Snake - 102% / 65%
Peach - 88% / 55%
Ice Climbers - 88% / 57%
Lucario - 93% / 62%
Ness - 91% / 58%
Lucas - 88% / 58%
These characters I was not able to collect data for because it is extremely difficult to do a ssdtilt on them. However, I am able to confirm that I have done it at least once:
Kirby, Yoshi, Captain Falco
These characters I believe cannot be ssdtilted (Please correct me if I'm wrong) - the heavy weights and glidable characters:
Pit, Metanight, Charlizard, Venasaur, DDD, Wario, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Ganandorf
Characters that I have not tested (because I don't have all the characters unlocked yet):
Toon Link, Sonic, Wolf, Jiggly Puff
This is the first time I have ever written a post this long, let alone an attempt to write a semi guide. Any feedback would be much appreciated. I will try my best to continue collecting data and updating this page on a regular basis. If anybody wants to help out or would like to use this information in their guides/threads they are more than welcome to. I'm just an average Ike player that's looking to improve his game and at the same time hopefully contribute back to this awesome community.
I'm not sure if somebody else has written about this yet. I did a quick search on the forums and didn't see anything that mentions about this. But I think this discovery warrants the redemption of the Ike's much underrated down tilt, to put it mildly.
Ike's down tilt is arguably the least favourite and most unused move in Ike's moveset due to the long start-up time, crappy knock-out power, and very limited uses as a spike. I hope this contribution will benefit the Ike community by introducing a whole new area in Ike's metagame and raising his overall competitiveness as a brawl character.
I discovered this insanely powerful move by accident while playing a 4 man free-for-all online with anyone. While near the edge, I did a down tilt out of shield on Marth and it killed him...at 55%. It knocked him horizontally across the stage with so much power that he was unable to get out of hit-stun before he KO'd.
The down tilt animation goes like this - Ike crouches, winds the sword with his right arm behind his head and swipes across the floor. At full power (without move degradation) down tilt does 14% damage regardless if you hit at the tip or at the hilt. If you connect with the blade while the opponent is grounded, the opponent is launched vertically upwards with kill percents at 125%+. However if you are close enough to the opponent to connect with the hilt, the opponent is launched horizontally which massive knockback power. In fact, this knockback power is so insane that is has more knockout power than a getting hit by a fully charged upsmash at the edge of Final Destination.
I've started working on collecting empirical data for the moveset kill percentages for a sweetspotted down tilt on every character - using the center and edges of Final Destination as benchmarks. I used the lowest percentage for knockout on a lvl 9 stationary computer in training mode. (The CPU does not DI, but it will airdodge and attempt to recover the frame it gets out of hitstun with perfect reflex). I included the moveset kill percentages for a majority of Ike's moves against Marth to illustrate how the ssdtilt (sweetspotted down tilt) is the Ike's second most powerful uncharged move next to forward smash
Against Marth:
Vertical launches
up tilt (front/back): 100% / 134%
down tilt (non sweetspot): 126%
up air (grounded opponent): 99%
down air (grounded opponent: tip/blade): 115% / 118%
up smash (uncharged/fully charged): 98% / 61%
down smash 1st hit at front [hilt/blade] (uncharged/fully charged): [122%/126%] / 80%
down smash 2nd hit at back [hilt/blade] (uncharged/fully charged): [99%/100%] / 61%
eruption (uncharged): 119%
eruption (flashing red): 2%
quick draw [point blank/full length] (uncharged): 190% / 193%
quick draw [point blank/full length] (fully charged): 102% / 110%
Horizontal launches: {center of stage} / [edge of stage]
forward smash (uncharged): {48%} / [30%]
forward smash (fully charged): {20%} / [5%]
down tilt (sweet spotted): {85%} / [55%]
forward tilt: {93%} / [64%]
forward air (grounded opponent): {125%} / [93%]
back air (ground opponent): {109%} / [76%]
As you can see, down tilt is the second strongest uncharged KO move in Ike's moveset next to forward smash but its nearly 3 times faster. Another huge advantage it has over forward smash is the ability to shield poke. Even if the opponent is blocking, there's a very high chance the down tilt will connect - making this move absolute pwnage.
Possible ways to approach with the sweet spotted down tilt (ssdtilt):
Incancus Combo *Sorry, I couldn't resist
*: Time the Quick Draw so that you slide right in front of the opponent and immediately execute a down tilt attack. If your opponent blocks they better pray that their shields don't get poked through.Sidestep/Roll: Get familiar with the sidestep/roll distance so that you can sidestep/roll just right behind him and pull off a sweetspotted down tilt.
Short hop + airdodge: Short hop towards your opponent and as you are landing airdodge. You can either ground cancel the airdodge or let the airdodge finish before doing a sweet spotted down tilt.
Dashing Shield: Dash at your opponent and just as you approach put up your shield. The momentum should allow you to slide right into him and in perfect range for a sweetspotted down tilt. If you can anticipate an attack and powershield it, even better.
More kill percentages
Some characters cannot be ssdtilted like Bowser and DK whereas others are very difficult to ssdtilt though it can be done eg. Link.
Character (center of stage / edge of stage)
* means that although they don't get KO'd before hitstun ends, this is the lowest percentage they can get back onto the stage with their recovery @ lvl 9 CPU
Mario:
ssdtilt - (92% / 60%)
forward tilt - (99% / 68%)
Link: (Very hard to ssdtilt)
ssdtilt - (94% / 61% ) - *(93% / 48%)
forward tilt - (100% / 67%) -*(100 / 57%)
Samus:
ssdtilt - (98% / 64%)
forward tilt - (106% / 71%)
Fox:
ssdtilt - (97% / 50%)
forward tilt - (87% / 59%)
Pikachu:
ssdtilt - (81% / 53%)
forward tilt - (88% / 61%)
Marth *see above example for more comprehensive list:
ssdtilt - (85% / 55%)
forward tilt - (93% / 64%)
Luigi:
ssdtilt - (85% / 56%)
forward tilt - (93% / 66%)
Diddy Kong:
ssdtilt - (96% / 59%)
forward tilt - (105% / 68%)
Zelda:
ssdtilt - (85% / 55%)
forward tilt - (105% / 68%)
Ike:
ssdtilt - (97% / 62%) -*(82% / 34%)
forward tilt - (104% / 75%) - *(* / 50%)
Olimar:
ssdtilt - (84% / 56%)
forward tilt - (90% / 62%)
The rest of the characters I only did percentages for ssdtilt
Falco - 84% / 53%
Squirtle - 78% / 52%
Snake - 102% / 65%
Peach - 88% / 55%
Ice Climbers - 88% / 57%
Lucario - 93% / 62%
Ness - 91% / 58%
Lucas - 88% / 58%
These characters I was not able to collect data for because it is extremely difficult to do a ssdtilt on them. However, I am able to confirm that I have done it at least once:
Kirby, Yoshi, Captain Falco
These characters I believe cannot be ssdtilted (Please correct me if I'm wrong) - the heavy weights and glidable characters:
Pit, Metanight, Charlizard, Venasaur, DDD, Wario, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Ganandorf
Characters that I have not tested (because I don't have all the characters unlocked yet):
Toon Link, Sonic, Wolf, Jiggly Puff
This is the first time I have ever written a post this long, let alone an attempt to write a semi guide. Any feedback would be much appreciated. I will try my best to continue collecting data and updating this page on a regular basis. If anybody wants to help out or would like to use this information in their guides/threads they are more than welcome to. I'm just an average Ike player that's looking to improve his game and at the same time hopefully contribute back to this awesome community.
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