Ike in Project SA! Playing with Fire...

[Kirk]

Ike In Project SA!
Playing with Fire...​

What is this?

As some of you may know, there is an application that has been released by Phantom Wings called "Project Smash Attacks." This app allows you to look at the coding for any character file and edit them. What this means is you can essentially tweak old moves, change general properties, or even create entirely new moves.

What can you do with this?

The application is still in VERY early development, and not a lot is known at this point. A few things off the top of my head that one can do:

--Change/swap animations.
--Change/add/remove collision bubbles to/from attacks(hitboxes).
--Change/add/remove graphic effects to/from attacks.
--Change/add/remove sound effects to/from attacks.
--Alter when and how long collision bubbles are present.
--Change the IASA(Interuptable As Soon As) frame of any attack.
--Create entirely new moves, as well as remove them completely.

These are brief points, and I can elaborate more if needed. I will edit this section later with updates.

...and what is the point of this thread?

This is an exciting new tool that has potential to be VERY powerful, given time. In short, these are the points of this thread:

--Ike! Everything should be generally centered around the character. It IS the Ike forum, after all.
--I would like this thread to be used as a consolidated place for Ike mains to talk about anything related to Project SA.
--A sharing hub. People can showcase what they have done with everyone else.
--Character ideas. With the ability to make new moves, the next big step is naturally creating all new characters. Share your ideas here!
--Making Ike better! Anything you wish he could have in Brawl? Something that is in Brawl isn't true to the Fire Emblem games? Balancing tweaks? Tell us your suggestions here!
--Help! Anyone can offer help to those who have questions or are just feeling lost.

So yay...I'm excited. I hope all of you are, too.

 

[Kirk]

The Good Stuff!​

I. Current Projects

A. Commissioning Ragna the Bloodedge for Rykoshet! --- See the moveset HERE

1. Ragna Jab Combo [Jab1, Jab2, and Jab3] ----- Completed.​

2. Hell's Fang [Quick Draw] ----- Completed.​

3. Ragna Tilts [Ftilt, Utilt, and Dtilt] ----- Completed.​

4. Ragna Smashes [Fsmash, Usmash, and Dsmash] ----- Completed.​

5. Ragna Aerials [Nair, Fair, Bair, Uair, and Dair] ----- Completed.​

6. Currently Coding: [TBD]​

II. The Sharing Hub

A. Full Moveset Mods/Characters

1. Ragna the Bloodedge Version 1.0 --- My first release for the character. Check it out! ----- DOWNLOAD -- INFO​

B. Small Mods

1. Down Taunt Explosion --- Replaces Counter(DownB) with a completely new attack. ----- DOWNLOAD​

III. Character Concepts

A. Ragna the Bloodedge by --- Rykoshet --- DETAILS HERE​

IV. Ideas for Tweaking Ike

Make it so you can cancel QD into any attack, but keep the momentum.

remove the start-up frames from Counter. If I want to avoid an attack I can see coming, I can always dodge or shield, I want Counter to use as a split-second reaction move.

Also for tweaking Ike, make all of the collision bubbles for Dair spike the opponent for the entire duration, instead of just the bottom ones for the first two frames. That would make it so amazing, I'd never use another aerial off-stage again.

I'd like Aether to be more like the one in FE. Where there's more horizontal movement than there currently is in brawl. Then his QD could be changed to something, like, IDK, a projectile? Or we do what was suggested earlier and make QD cancel-able, but keep the momentum

Or we could just completely dominate and make Aether even more like in FE: great vertical range, good horizontal range, and heals himself with the damage he deals.

I also think I figured out how to make Aether heal. :D

We wants a projectile![/COLOR]

Spitballing another idea: I heard you can change the taunts with victory animations. If so, can you set it up like this?

Up Taunt: Prepare Yourself!
Side Taunt: I fight for my friends!
Down Taunt: You'll get no sympathy from me!

And I'm curious about his one victory animation where he jumps really high into the air: just how high does he jump?

V. FAQ

Q. Can we give Ike a projectile?
A. --Short answer, no. Not enough is known to accomplish this.
Long answer, for something to be a projectile, there would need to be an article that is COMPLETELY separate from his body, and at the moment that is not possible with Ike, as he does not have any built-in projectiles to generate. The closest thing one can get to a projectile, however, is making a very long ranged attack. Such as...Ftilt having fire come from its tips...traveling across the field the distance of FD. You can give the effect of it being like a projectile, but in the end it won't be. The hitboxes will still be tied to your character, just VERY disjointed. If you were to be interrupted by any means, the fire would instantly disappear, as it was all tied to you.​

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Make it so you can cancel QD into any attack, but keep the momentum.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Well, isn't Project SA still in development though? If so, then that's kind of a bummer...

Also, remove the start-up frames from Counter. If I want to avoid an attack I can see coming, I can always dodge or shield, I want Counter to use as a split-second reaction move.

 

[Marauder]

Make Fsmash hit on frame 1 >_>...

 

[Rykoshet]

Ragna The Bloodedge

Idle Animation: There's no real way to change this to make it representative of ragna's laid back style with his sword so leave it as is.

AAA: First Jab: Keep it the same. Reduce the first hit to 3 damage and give it just enough hitstun on first uncanceled hit to set up for the second hit. If you have to increase the IASA to make this not lock a person into first jab string, by all means do so.

Second hit: Back throw's spin kick animation towards the opponent. Have it knock a person down towards the ground or at least give the opponent a stutter animation to set up for the third hit.

Third Hit: The front end of down smash. Give enough knockback so that if you hit with the third hit while someone is offstage it semi-spikes and sets up a viable edgehog trap situation.

Up tilt: Ike's up smash animation with just the sword swing part if possible with far less knockback and IASA frames just past the point where his sword hits the floor. Think like toon link's up tilt with a far bigger sword.

Down tilt: Ike's second jab, give it better iasa to make it a strong poke.

Ftilt: Quick draw's swing animation with decent IASA. Give it a darkness effect.

Up smash: Ike's up throw animatio. Considering he has to put his sword down to do this, keep this as strong as his current up smash. Make the actual arms of his body have the hitbox while his hurtbox is his body/head.

Fsmash: Same Ol Move, faster, weaker. Tipper causes darkness damage and does 21% damage while sending at a very low side angle, thinking sub 45. The blade causes no darkness damage and sends at a 65 degree angle.

Down Smash: I don't know what to make this move right now.

Fthrow: Leave ike's fthrow animation but have it stutter the opponent in front of ike. If Ike presses A again allow him to regrab and immediately pummel animation them and stutter them again. End it there.

Up throw: Give it ike's up tilt animation with good iasa so he can set up a juggle trap with it.

Back throw: The same.

Down throw: At the end of ike's stomp, keep the person on the floor to set up tech chases.

Note: Increase ike's grab range slightly.

Specials:

Side B: Hell's fang. Keep the move as you have it right now but increase the base knockback a bit so if it connects at a low percent it's not punishable except by possibly a fast disjointed character and only if you dont shield immediately.

Description: Click Side B - Move slides forward, on connection it lands a jab with darkness animation and gives an option to press A to cancel the move's ending lag with an ftilt animation, again with darkness.

Down B: Gauntlet Hades. Have ike's front throw kick hop/move towards the opponent (again with darkness) with ike's hurtbox being his body while the leg itself is disjointed. If the move misses completely give it punishable ending lag. On connection allow a condition to press A to go into ike's back throw kick (again towards the opponent) while not moving forward as much. Have the move send at a low forward angle with decent knockback (something similar to his ftilt in knockback/growth)

Up B: Inferno Divider. Keep aether as is except let it end at the very top of the move, allowing it to autosnap there. If the move connects while grounded, however, allow it to have a condition on hit after the uppercut animation that causes ike to short hop and follow up with the beginning of his up air animation. Add darkness to the second hit.

Neutral B: For now just make eruption dark. I'll think of something later, I wanna turn this move into dead spike.

I want to alter his aerials to be faster/weaker but cause greater shield push on block to give him a solid pressure game from the air. Make all of it autocancelon short hop except for the up air.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Olo BlazBlue. You play that too Ryko?

 

[Rykoshet]

I dont own a system that plays it, I just like the character concepts and wanted to translate them into brawl.

 

[Nysyarc]

Exactly how much can a character be tweaked? Can you, for example, use animations from other characters in some of the attacks? I'll probably have a character concept in a bit.

Also for tweaking Ike, make all of the collision bubbles for Dair spike the opponent for the entire duration, instead of just the bottom ones for the first two frames. That would make it so amazing, I'd never use another aerial off-stage again.

 

[codfish92]

Make Fsmash hit on frame 1 >_>...

pretty much possible with super codes

and here is an example of the an edited ike by dragon rage
Ike
-Dragon-Rage'sIke
download
http://www.mediafire.com/?ym0mz2tmoin
video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brJV9LTB-HI

basically, it's the same ike with two differences. his B(eruption) is replaced with his third jab animation. when the sword hits the ground, small pillars of flame come out and move forward about two dash animations. if you use it in the air, he will do his neutral air animation and the fire will move down with him, if finished in the air, he will enter freefall.
also all aerials have a fire effect, but no animation or damage change.

note:you will need the homebrew channel with gecko OS(1.7b earliest. recommend 1.91 or 1.9.2) with Phantom wings file replacement code(2.1 earliest). put the FitIke.pac(do not assign a texture, it will not work if you do) in the Ike folder in ur sd card and enjoy.

 

[codfish92]

Exactly how much can a character be tweaked? Can you, for example, use animations from other characters in some of the attacks? I'll probably have a character concept in a bit.

Also for tweaking Ike, make all of the collision bubbles for Dair spike the opponent for the entire duration, instead of just the bottom ones for the first two frames. That would make it so amazing, I'd never use another aerial off-stage again.

this is what can be edited so far with the beta
-animation changes(that the character uses, so you couldn't give ike fsmash a bowser fsmash animation, but you could give replace ikes fsmash animation with his b animation.)
-damage changes
-element changes
-timing changes
-hitbox size
-hitbox editing(make a move always sweetspot or never sweetspot)
-new hitbox's(means you can add a hitbox where there was none. biggest use with this is putting a hitbox on lucario's up-B)
-attribute editing(edit air mobility, run speed, weight, ect.)

 

[King of Sack]

Is it possible that we could have a slighty modded version of Ike allowed in tournys? I don't mean making him SSSSSSS-tier, I mean making him a viable character again. (I.e. Giving him a projectile and speeding up all moves 5-10%)

I also think I figured out how to make Aether heal. :D I just need to get the program and see if it is possible.

If all works out well, I can help with... da hacks!

 

[Rykoshet]

Is it possible that we could have a slighty modded version of Ike allowed in tournys?

No unless you count the possibility of balanced brawl getting a tournament.

 

[King of Sack]

So this can only be for friendlies?

 

[codfish92]

yes, it will most likely never be tournament legal unless the Backroom people get together and make their own that they deem "fair"

it is still really fun to play with though.

 

[SaltyKracka]

No unless you count the possibility of balanced brawl getting a tournament.

I'd actually like to see that happen. Or better yet, a tournament where there are both modded and unmodded games. And then one could compare the character results for the winner's spots, as well as matches in general, and see if balanced Brawl really is more balanced. Wouldn't that be cool?

 

[Acrean]

Few Suggestions:

I'd like Aether to be more like the one in FE. Where there's more horizontal movement than there currently is in brawl. Then his QD could be changed to something, like, IDK, a projectile? Or we do what was suggested earlier and make QD cancel-able, but keep the momentum

Or we could just completely dominate and make Aether even more like in FE: great vertical range, good horizontal range, and heals himself with the damage he deals.

And also, he should have a costume where he can look like he is in Radiant Dawn. He becomes more manly.

So there you go, some suggestions off the top of my head.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Then his QD could be changed to something, like, IDK, a projectile?

Remember how Ragnell has a range of 1-2? Like, it sends out a wave if you're 2 spaces away.
We should make Ike's Ftilt reflect that. Like a projectile. BROKEN RANGE.

Oh, and remember how Ike's dodge rate is almost gratuitously high? Is it possible to add invincibility frames to his dodges?

 

[codfish92]

so you guys don't too excited, we haven't exactly figured out how to add a projectile to move that doesn't have one. also it would have to be an existing projectile, you couldn't make a purple fire ball, you would have to use mario's or luigi's.

and yes, you can add invincibilty frames to his dodges.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Perhaps you could add the effects of Falco's Fsmash past the top of the sword, then..? But less crappy with non-sweetspots.

 

[codfish92]

well you can edit the size of the hitbox, don't know if you could put falco's fsmash in cuz ike most likely has different bone id's

but we could make an entirely new hit box though

 

[SaltyKracka]

Well, everybody loves fire for projectiles, right? Why not just add like a firey explosion at the very tip of it? You get a range boost, and it can even serve as a sweetspot.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I got a way to make it a projectile: make the range super long, and give it the same priority as MK's sword.

Tada, instant Ragnell shockwaves. I'd personally make it his Neutral B, kinda what was shown before. Take the third hit of the AAA combo, make the final hitbox low to the ground and give it a light magic effect (think Zelda's effects). Maybe 5%, 1/4 of FD, low knockback upwards.

 

[Kirk]

What you are describing are not technically projectiles. It is just an extension of the attack.

Such as...Ftilt having fire come from its tips...traveling across the field the distance of FD. You can give the effect of it being like a projectile, but in the end it won't be. The hitboxes are still tied to your character, just VERY disjointed. If you were to be interrupted by any means, the fire would instantly disappear, as it was all tied to you.

For it to be a projectile, it would need to be COMPLETELY separate from your body, and at the moment that is not possible with Ike, as he does not have any built-in projectiles to generate.

Did that make any sense? xD

P.S. I've been hard at work, commissioning Ryko's character concept. So far the results are looking pretty darn good! :D

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I know, but it's as close as we can get currently. Maybe you could super speed up the attack so you wouldn't have to worry about other projectiles preventing Ike from using his "projectile". Like, comes out frame 5.

 

[codfish92]

but then that would leave it too broken. the attack would come out with little start lag and after that attack, the sword would still have a hit box. it would just be too broken

 

[Kirk]

I must say...Ragna the Bloodedge is turning out to be pretty spectacular.

Ryko and I are making a pretty darn good team here....the results are looking VERY promising, especially since there is still more than 3/4 of his moveset to code!

Ryko has been making some videos(Youtube), testing out the newly coded moveset.

...and those are here. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkZv0E1p4OU - Includes the changed QD(has gone under alterations since), and my first shot at creating a new move near the end(though it doesn't showcase it in its entirety).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iImEuvVYVgk - Includes the new Jab sequence. Shows various mixups/followups. Looks cool as ****.

 

[Melfice z]

will you really be able to follow up 2nd jab with an ftilt?

thats...awesome!!! :D

 

[SaltyKracka]

1st. That taunt was ****ing awesome.

2nd. I noticed that you had "That Man" playing on your menu screen. Which is also awesome. Or was that just the FE one, Greed something?

 

[Melfice z]

That was the taunt???
i guess i overlooked that..

 

[SaltyKracka]

Well, Taunt animation. I guess it must've been the vB, though...

 

[codfish92]

any idea when the character will be finished?

 

[Rykoshet]

will you really be able to follow up 2nd jab with an ftilt?

thats...awesome!!! :D

You can cancel the second jab into any move, whether or not it will connect is dependent on how silly your opponent is though.

 

[Rykoshet]

any idea when the character will be finished?

If kirk continues tonight, smashes and probably gauntlet hades will be done. Inferno divider is gonna take the longest time then there's also fixing aerial hell's fang, aerial gauntlet hades and aerial inferno divider as well as changing/weakening his aerials.

 

[Acrean]

Just saw the videos now, if the taunt is the VB then that is freaking sweet.

Down Smash: I don't know what to make this move right now.

If this is still the case, I have a suggestion. Use Ike's Up taunt animation, but make it faster? So the hit box would stretch above his head, and down the side of whatever way he's facing? It could also have potential edge-guarding abilities. Following the darkness theme here, when he does this move a trail of darkness could follow his sword.

Side B: Hell's fang. Keep the move as you have it right now but increase the base knockback a bit so if it connects at a low percent it's not punishable except by possibly a fast disjointed character and only if you dont shield immediately.

Description: Click Side B - Move slides forward, on connection it lands a jab with darkness animation and gives an option to press A to cancel the move's ending lag with an ftilt animation, again with darkness.

But to help Ike not get gimped so easily, can we have it so that Hell's Fang goes through projectiles or something? Or reflects/redirects them, but he continues moving forward? Otherwise that move will be just like QD for recovery.

Just some suggestions.

 

[King of Sack]

My computer is making excuses... so no PSA for me! >_______________________________>

 

[Kirk]

He'll be done when he's done!

I'm going through and making sure everything is working the way it should be, and Ryko is helping a lot with that as well. Tweaking everything is taking the majority of the time spent on this project.

It's been about 4 hours now since I started working on Usmash...and I'm still tweaking it...it's gotta be just right!

 

[Ussi]

Aether canceling ;D i want to be able to cancel Aether. just be restricted from using it again (leave side B since you're go to free fall is you use it) It should sweet spot when canceled next to the ledge and have no after lag for aerial follow ups :D (aether > dair ftw)

 

[codfish92]

Aether canceling ;D i want to be able to cancel Aether. just be restricted from using it again (leave side B since you're go to free fall is you use it) It should sweet spot when canceled next to the ledge and have no after lag for aerial follow ups :D (aether > dair ftw)

probably possible with allow interrupt phases

 

[Kirk]

Aether canceling ;D i want to be able to cancel Aether. just be restricted from using it again (leave side B since you're go to free fall is you use it) It should sweet spot when canceled next to the ledge and have no after lag for aerial follow ups :D (aether > dair ftw)

Yes, easily done. Did that one time randomly while playing around with it. Though I'd have to figure a way to disable after one use...cause the way I had it you could Aether infinitely.