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If you could eliminate certain characters from the current roster, would you?

Blaze the cat

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
164
I believe altogether eliminating clones (and clone-like characters) would greatly benefit the roster. These are the characters I would jettison, and in this order:

1. Toon Link – There is no reason to have the same character appear twice in the same roster, no matter how he’s shaded.
2. Lucas – Ness is more than enough Mother series representation. If there had to be another character from this series, it should have been a character that didn’t look and play exactly like Ness. Not only that, he’s a Japan-only character. Why further alienate American audiences?
3 & 4. Wolf and Falco – These two are just too similar to Fox, especially since both have Fox’s final smash. There are no excuses for the laziness displayed on the part of the developers for this.
5. Marth – Do we really need two sword-wielding, blue-haired Fire Emblem characters? Ike is more than enough to suffice.
6. R.O.B. – He may not be a clone, but this thing is butt-ugly. There are some who argue he’s the same as Mr. Game and Watch, but I strongly disagree. I’ve played many Game & Watch games both as a kid and also many years later, when the games were ported to the Game Boy in the “Game & Watch Gallery” series. I haven’t played either of R.O.B.’s games (Gyromite and Stack-Up), nor would I want to. R.O.B. is an amusing relic from the eighties, sure, but absolutely not worthy of playable character status.

Now, before I’m hounded on by those who want to say that Luigi is a clone, I’ll reference Street Fighter II, which set the gold standard: One clone of the most prominent character is allowed, as long as the clone has a contrasting relationship to that character. Luigi is to Mario what Ken is to Ryu. Once is fine. Brawl’s current roster is not.

So there you have it: Eliminate six characters, and you have a decent roster of 29 that contains unique characters with original movesets. It would actually be a vast improvement over our current clone-cluttered roster.
 

Chaosblade77

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
1,958
Regardless of what they look like, Marth and Ike are absolutely nothing alike. My god, I can't believe people still use that to say Marth should not be in... and even on the looks factor, how does that matter? You may as well say remove Zelda because Peach is already a Princess in a pink dress.

Furthermore... why would you rather have less characters? I don't understand that.
 

Blaze the cat

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
164
...

Are you ******** by any chance?
I am astounded by the strong character and maturity found on these boards.

To answer your question, no. I'm just perturbed by the 35 character roster. Even eliminating the characters would improve it.
 

SuperLink9

Smash Lord
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Only Toon Link and Ganondorf are clones. There are no other clones (sort of) all clones have been luigified, Ganon and Toon Link the least.

Falco and Wolf are quite different from Fox now, other than the LandMaster™ final smash, MK I, II and III[Wolfenmaster]

Sakurai thought the LandMaster was so "H-HUGE!" that he made sure every character in the game have one, unfortunately though, the game could not handle all the Landmasters, so Sakurai had to remove most of them and replace them with disappointing "makeshift" Final Smashes.

Back on topic (sorry I went a bit off there):

Marth and Ike are nothing alike, other than being Fire Emblem characters, and Lucas and Ness share similar B Moves, but their A moves are quite different indeed.

And R.O.B. is LEET.
 

jabso

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
1
I wouldn't remove any characters that's not to say I love every single one of them.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
You're way too stupid.

Also, no. And Toon link is the only full cloe, Ganon is slightly luigified, Falco is luigified and Wolf is not a clone.
 

SuperLink9

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Other than his amazingly recoloured FS (like just about everything else about him)
 

iluvnintendo1983

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
217
Location
Washington State
I would only eliminate characters if other characters would be put in their place. This is what I would do:

Toon Link's out - Geno's in

Falco's out - Krystal's in (I would take Falco out cause he plays more like Fox then Wolf does)

ROB's out - Ridley's in

Lucas's out - Mega Man or Midna's in (Lucas is too much like Ness)
 

lex.aut

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Messages
93
Location
Austria/Vienna
the only character that has elimination potential in my eyes is wolf (because he's a clone of a clone character of course). but still, i wouldn't take him out. replace him? yes, but no elimination.
overall i'm pretty disappointed that they used clone characters once again (and clones of clonecharacters). instead of introducing wolf, they should've taken mewtwo back in.

i guess it's not possible to create a prefect smash brothers. there had to be 1 flaw - too bad it's the most important thing in the game: the character roster.
 

Mama

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
776
Location
Richmond California (northern)
Wow what an ignorant thread.
Only character I'd boot is Rob since he really just seems useless and I'd replace him with Knuckles or Megaman.

Falco has been altered a lot from his Melee counterpart in terms of his move set. He has a lot of different attacks and tweeks. Wolf seems more like the "Falco" here but even then he'll differ a lot from Fox in terms of mechanics.

As for your reason for Marth....all I can say is you're an idiot honest and for true. I wont even bother going into that one.
 

Chaosblade77

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
1,958
I would only eliminate characters if other characters would be put in their place. This is what I would do:

Toon Link's out - Geno's in

Falco's out - Krystal's in (I would take Falco out cause he plays more like Fox then Wolf does)

ROB's out - Ridley's in

Lucas's out - Mega Man or Midna's in (Lucas is too much like Ness)
I agree with all of those except one, being Lucas. I'd rather kill off Ness even though he was in the previous games, because I hear he is the worse of the two. As for Wolf, I prefer him to Falco anyway for some reason, the fact he is more unique only helps.
 

M.K

Level 55
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Jul 10, 2007
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North Carolina
WOLF IS NOT A CLONE.

Oh my god! The stupidity and lack of informed people astounds me. Also, I'd like to argue on behalf of Link/Toon Link. Sure, they might have the exact same B moves, but they act in such a different manner. The bombs of Toon are lighter and can be thrown far, the boomerang of Toon travels farther and is weaker, Triforce Slash slashes farther with Toon Link, and the arrows look major different. It's going to be kind of like a new character
 

SuperLink9

Smash Lord
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I'd replace Ganondorf with competance (i.e. full new moveset)

I'd replace Toon Link with competance (i.e. full new moveset)

I'd replace Falco with Krystal (Wolf has a more unique moveset than Falco)

I can't say I'd replace any of the other characters, except maybe R.O.B. I think he's a good character, but I think there could have been someone better. Of course everyone probably does. So I guess I woulda chucked Isaac and Mewtwo in there somewhere. Instead of who I don't know. Of course Pokémon can't be the only series with 5 reps, especially if Mario has less :p

When can SWF make an SSB4 board? :laugh:
 

Blaze the cat

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
164
WOLF IS NOT A CLONE.

Oh my god! The stupidity and lack of informed people astounds me. Also, I'd like to argue on behalf of Link/Toon Link. Sure, they might have the exact same B moves, but they act in such a different manner. The bombs of Toon are lighter and can be thrown far, the boomerang of Toon travels farther and is weaker, Triforce Slash slashes farther with Toon Link, and the arrows look major different. It's going to be kind of like a new character
What? Toon's weapons behave in a slightly different way, so that makes him "original"? He's the same character and uses the same weapons. I've watched the gameplay videos. I know how these characters behave. And I still think they are way, way too similar.

I can't believe the majority of respondents here are just flaming me with insults. At every other Smash board I've been to, I've actually found some intelligent discourse, but not here. I think I'll be sticking to those other sites for now. Jeez.
 

Lipucd

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
180
Lol at this topic.

IF this game is the end result do you THINK having different characters would change it at all?

...Because if you kick out some for these guys I know whats going to happen...
Krystal = Fox
Geno = R.O.B Clone ( R.O.B has just about every "Geno" move down to some point )
Mega Man = Samus ( I think Kirby would be the only "power taker" leaving mega with...a blaster and copied move set of samus )
Midna = Mewtwo ( Smaller but same move set...Wee )


You know it to be true...get rid of a few clones and what do you get?....More clones...

Even SF3 has this problem ( Got rid of cammy clones...added Yun and Yan...>_>; ) and lets NOT touch on the VS. series...
 

SuperLink9

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But your entire first post has been "debunked" except for your want to remove Toon Link, and he's the only one people have no real argument for, so he's the only one you're talking about.

All the people who mentioned Wolf, Falco and Marth, you're completely ignoring. Basically trying to ignore the fact you made quite a few big mistakes in your first post.

When you don't do your research you get flamed.
 

Limey

Smash Fan
BRoomer
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Oct 23, 2001
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2,710
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Wales
I wouldn't get rid of any characters just for the hell of it. That just reduces the playable characters, for no real reason.

It's like ethnic cleansing.
 

darkhamsterlord

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
174
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Dark Hamsterlord's Palace
What? Toon's weapons behave in a slightly different way, so that makes him "original"? He's the same character and uses the same weapons. I've watched the gameplay videos. I know how these characters behave. And I still think they are way, way too similar.

I can't believe the majority of respondents here are just flaming me with insults. At every other Smash board I've been to, I've actually found some intelligent discourse, but not here. I think I'll be sticking to those other sites for now. Jeez.
I'll start being intelligent when you do.

But seriously, the purpose of clones is to add characters when they don't have enough time to add one with a unique moveset. (It takes ALOT of time. They could add atleast 3 clones in the time it would take to make ONE character.) Also, they play VERY differently. They're like a whole new character, but with the same moveset.

If you ELIMINATE the clones, you're doing nothing but HURTING the roster. If you REPLACE the clones with unique characters, the roster is improved.
 

SuperLink9

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I'm simply bamboozled as to why Ganondorf was not one of the biggest priorities.
 

Chaosblade77

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 1, 2007
Messages
1,958
I can't believe the majority of respondents here are just flaming me with insults. At every other Smash board I've been to, I've actually found some intelligent discourse, but not here. I think I'll be sticking to those other sites for now. Jeez.
Like SuperLink said, it's because you haven't done your research. We have all seen gameplay videos too, and just because you have seen some does not make the points you made in your post right.

You probably lost all credibility you may have had by saying Marth and Ike are too similar, when they are in fact two of the most different characters in the game, in terms of how they play. Movesets, speed, power, weight, the only real similarity is the series they are from and the fact they both use swords (blah, honestly. Where is Micaiah when you need her?)

Second, most of the people here (that I have noticed) are just tired of threads that complain about the roster. There have been so many of them it's ridiculous, and I think every point that could possibly be made, whether it is true or not, has been made, and everyone already knows. Not many people feel the roster is perfect, but when you really analyze the playstyles, it's not as bad as it initially seems. Sure, franchises are poorly balanced in terms of representation and better characters could have made it, but it certainly could have been a lot worse.
 

SuperLink9

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In Melee there were 6 non-luigified almost 100% clones.

Can we complain about that now?
 

Lynkx

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
357
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Ireland
Who cares? You're only gonna use one or two characters that suit you best.

But a wider array of unique characters would be nice
 

DstyCube

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
335
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Hawaii
Now, before I’m hounded on by those who want to say that Luigi is a clone, I’ll reference Street Fighter II, which set the gold standard: One clone of the most prominent character is allowed, as long as the clone has a contrasting relationship to that character. Luigi is to Mario what Ken is to Ryu. Once is fine. Brawl’s current roster is not.
Don't for get Akuma. Ken and Akuma are relatively clones of Ryu, much like how Falco and Wolf are relatively clones of Fox. But they are also unique in their own ways, and I don't think they fall directly into the category of 'clones'.

So there you have it: Eliminate six characters, and you have a decent roster of 29 that contains unique characters with original movesets. It would actually be a vast improvement over our current clone-cluttered roster.
I think the main point people are trying to say is, reguardless if you got rid of the 6 characters you suggested, you will still have the remaining 29 roster anyways if they are left in. So what is the point of removing those 6 characters if you can have your 'decent roster of 29 that contains unique characters with movesets' and more without removing them in the first place?
 

Jason777123

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
29
look you dont know if they are clones until you play the game so just wait till march 9!!!
 

Tabris-

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Messages
188
ROB, just because I don't like how Nintendo are forcing their gimmick toy and character down our throats in every game in recent memory. He may look quite good as a character in Brawl because the developers had a clean slate with what moves he could use, but he looks so static and out of play. At least with our last WTF character, G&W, his moves transitioned into Smash nicely, ROB doesn't quite do this. A more deserving character could have gone here.

Otherwise, the roster is fine and dandy :D
 

KingKraken

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
240
Location
Davison, Michigan
I agree with toon link, but why Lucas? The MOTHER series is FAR too underestimated when it comes to smash. Sakurai could have chosen great characters from the series such as Duster, Kumatora, Claus, and Flint, and thats just some of the main characters from Mother 3. sigh... I hate how no one knows about Earthbound...
 

peachy!

super princess
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
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291
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Toon Link? Come on! This is not April's Fools Sakurai! But if you could replace any character it would be Pokemon Trainer. Before you attack me, I love PT! But I would replace him for three characters (Geno, Isaac, and Megaman).
 

Sugata Designs

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Corning, CA
look you dont know if they are clones until you play the game so just wait till march 9!!!
...Actually, you'll know if they're clones when you see their moves. You don't have to play the game to notice similarities and differences :psycho:

Regardless, as I'm sure it's been stated billions of times in this thread, most clones were "luigified". Besides, having different statistics (IE weight, jump height, knockback, etc.) is a big enough difference to create a different playstyle.
 

SuperLink9

Smash Lord
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It's great, luigified is such an awesome term. I really think it should be coined.

*Smash Wikis it*

Aww, it's already there :p Still awesome though.
 

Mr. M

Smash Journeyman
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Pensacola, FL Wargh! King Dedede, how dare you be
Fan Service: The Game


Ridley not in Brawl? Feelin' blue without Geno? Can't take out your rage with the punching power of Knuckles? Where the heck is Megaman!?


Seriously, appreciate what you DO get, rather then what you haven't gotten. There will always be another Super Smash. Sure, Sakurai will probably not make it, but that does not automatically make it bad. It might be what the series needs. Just wait it out and enjoy this game at the time.

Oh and, if I had a choice, I'd so take out Mario. For the lulz.
 

Chibirobo

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Messages
818
Now that were talking about stuff that wouldn't happen, how about CHANGING the characters instead of removing them. Un-clonify Ganondorf, Toon Link,Falco, and Wolf.(although it's debatable whether they are actually clones or not)
 
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