If customs aren't balanced in the patch...

[smashbro29]

Can we really go on saying they're legit?

If they're patching for our sake (and it is for our sake, casuals love this game as is) can we really say that they're balanced?

 

[Doruge]

Customs are already balanced...

 

[ParanoidDrone]

If character X isn't touched in the balance patch, can we really say he/she/it is legit?

Your argument is nonsensical.

 

[Funen1]

This topic reeks of confirmation bias. Just because something is altered in a patch doesn't mean that it was previously broken. Developers make tweaks to non-broken things all the time for a variety of reasons, not only because they were completely imbalanced.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Weren't a few customs balanced in the last patch? So they should be legit, right?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Major, wide-sweeping balance changes to customs might hurt more than help, considering that the EVO sets are already locked in.

Also, your question makes literally no sense.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Can we really go on saying they're legit?

If they're patching for our sake (and it is for our sake, casuals love this game as is) can we really say that they're balanced?

For "our" sake? This patch will assuredly be developed with everyone in mind, all three of the casuals, the quasi-competitive For Glory players, and the true competitive scene. I don't see how the scope of what they change should be some clue into what is or is not legitimate both because it doesn't really tell us why something would or would not be changed (they could leave customs alone just because they're fine as is!) and further because the reason for supporting customs is that they make the game better not because we believe we have read Sakurai's mind to divine that he wants us to use them.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Melee hasn't been rebalanced since it was released. Can we really go on saying that it's legit?

 

[Bribery]

Several customs were balanced in 1.0.4 so I guess they are legit after all!

 

[Jams.]

I'm slightly afraid that they'll change only aspects of vanilla Smash 4, and strong customs may then become overpowered. For instance, they could buff DK or Wii Fit Trainer quite heavily while leaving their strong customs touched, creating an overcompensated character that may (or may not, depends on the extent of changes) be overpowered. Of course, they did balance customs in 1.0.4 (or 1.0.1 on Wii U I think), so it's probable they'll keep customs in mind when balancing. The other character I'm worried about if they don't touch customizables at all is Mii Brawler. If every other top 10 character gets nerfed and Mii Brawler remains untouched, I feel small/thin Brawler would be overpowered in this situation, and I don't really like a Mii Brawler centralized meta.

I would be pretty sad if we were moving towards a customs meta, and then Nintendo balances for a customs-less meta. I feel like it would create an even greater rift between communities and start up more debate. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

 

[Raijinken]

They've already been balanced in the previous patch.

If Final Destination doesn't get changed, does that mean it's not legit? If Mario doesn't get patched, is he not legit?

Getting touched in a patch has nothing to do with legitimacy.

 

[Djent]

Developer intent may play a causal role in bringing about certain outcomes, but all we should consider when making our ruleset are the outcomes themselves.

In other words, NO.

 

[smashbro29]

This topic reeks of confirmation bias. Just because something is altered in a patch doesn't mean that it was previously broken. Developers make tweaks to non-broken things all the time for a variety of reasons, not only because they were completely imbalanced.

Yeah, not like I allow customs in my events or anything. I'm just trying to be realistic. Right now Villager's stuff is ridiculous.

If character X isn't touched in the balance patch, can we really say he/she/it is legit?

Your argument is nonsensical.

That's cute man, real cute.

Characters aren't some fringe thing like custom moves. Everyone uses characters, not everyone uses items, equipment, customs, some stages, etc.

For "our" sake? This patch will assuredly be developed with everyone in mind, all three of the casuals, the quasi-competitive For Glory players, and the true competitive scene. I don't see how the scope of what they change should be some clue into what is or is not legitimate both because it doesn't really tell us why something would or would not be changed (they could leave customs alone just because they're fine as is!) and further because the reason for supporting customs is that they make the game better not because we believe we have read Sakurai's mind to divine that he wants us to use them.

Thanks for your actual reply. That's a good point. Though, it'd suck if they become too crazy or something as a result of balance patches.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Yeah, not like I allow customs in my events or anything. I'm just trying to be realistic. Right now Villager's stuff is ridiculous.

Dude, you're a couple weeks behind the curve. Not only did Jtails beat that easily by just picking Pikachu and pressing B a lot, not only did Dapuffster beat that head-on by just fighting it straight-up with Brawler, but AA was in the lab and completely busted the strategy wide open with the vast majority of the cast. If your dsmash hits below the ledge and does more than 5%, Villager can't effectively plank you. Is customs villager good? Yeah. Is he broken, unbeatable, or even as good as default Diddy? Not even close. It's not like it's in dire need of a balance patch. Customs villager has won exactly zero noteworthy tournaments.

Characters aren't some fringe thing like custom moves. Everyone uses characters, not everyone uses items, equipment, customs, some stages, etc.

Right, some people prefer a more shallow, less varied game with fewer viable characters. I don't think I'll ever get those people, but que sera sera.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

That's cute man, real cute.

Characters aren't some fringe thing like custom moves. Everyone uses characters, not everyone uses items, equipment, customs, some stages, etc.

The only difference between a custom and default special to me is the number attached to it. (Then again, I have all of them unlocked so I can make literally any set I please.) Whether or not they nerf Kong Cyclone should make exactly as much difference as whether or not they nerf Monkey Flip, i.e. none whatsoever.

If your argument is that customs have to be unlocked, then I ask what about Falco, Wario, Lucina, Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, ROB, Mr. Game & Watch, or Duck Hunt. Or the stages Smashville, Pokemon Stadium 2, Kongo Jungle 64, and Duck Hunt. (And Flat Zone X and Pac-Land but admittedly no one cares about those two I think.)

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Most customs that were patched on Wii U release were in accordance to issues with the default. It's entirely possible that none of them will see any change in damage, knockback values, while the default moves get nerfed to the point where they couldn't be considered in a customs setting, like Little Mac's Jolt Haymaker was.

The only custom-specific issue I explicitly want to see fixed is Olimar's Order Tackle. That move seems like a good strategic choice if they just get rid of the amplification bug.

 

[Doruge]

Yeah, not like I allow customs in my events or anything. I'm just trying to be realistic. Right now Villager's stuff is ridiculous.

You are not being realistic. You are using all-or-nothing thinking, emotional reasoning, catastrophising, over-generalizing, and jumping to conclusions. Villagers custom moves are far from broken.

 

[Gunla]

This topic is something that won't end well, and it's partially speculation, so it'll be locked.