Ice Climber MU discussion

[-Mars-]

Ok, so I found this really easy and fast way to grab break. First of off, you need set your d-pad to anything that helps you grab break. I set mines to shield and jump. When you get grabbed all you gotta do is use your index finger to hold the control stick in a direction like down, then start rotating the d-pad with your thumb and rapidly hit the c-stick with your other thumb. The direction you're hitting the c-stick must be different than the direction you're holding the control stick. This alone will break out of grabs almost instantly. You don't even need to rotate the control stick, just holding it makes hitting the c-stick count as 3 inputs every time. Doing this method also leaves a lot of your fingers free to hit other buttons like L+R and the face buttons to break out even faster!

This is really effective against the IC's and Olimar! Makes it really hard for IC's to cg at lower percents and makes it impossible for Olimar to throw after a grab at low percents. TRY THIS!!!

No trolling. I believe this will change the IC's MU and even the Olimar MU a little since he can't do his low percent grab combos anymore.

Here's a bunch frame junk:

Every time you rotate the d-pad that's 4 inputs, which is 32 frames subtracted from the grab hold.
Hitting the c-stick every time counts as 2 inputs, but if you're holding the control stick, it counts as 3 so that's 24 more frames subtracted. That comes to a total of 56 frames (almost a second!) every time you rotate the d-pad and hit the c-stick once. And you only need 90 frames to break out of a grab at 0%.

Video demonstrating how fast this method is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4pHZUJGG0k

I grab break at 200% in less than a second.

Yes. Praise the Lord.

Merry Christmas K Prime.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Wow. You guys should post this **** in tactical. Nice find.

 

[-Cross-]

Wouldn't necessarily make the MU better. I mean at low %'s, can't IC's just solo CG you, so it wouldn't matter in the end would it as in avoiding getting ***** by grab. This is still godsend by Kprime though.

 

[Judo777]

I already saw this an alas........ it actually doesn't solve a thing. I have been saying for quite a long time that solo IC cging is the best way to cg sheik anyway. You can finish the cg the regular way once you get her up to 70% but before that there is never a reason not to solo cg sheik with popo. It guarantees the cg even if one of them trips and its also about 50 times easier. And it gets sheik to the ledge at a good enough percent to kill her. Its really lame but IC's cging sheik is so stupidly easy a cave man can do it.

 

[Juushichi]

No, we still lose this MU really badly.

 

[Saltix]

Fantastic, keep it hidden

 

[Fuujin]

 

[sheikamaru]

we have a problem w/ ice climbers? o.o

 

[-Cross-]

^lol hell yes
inb4Judorant

 

[-Mars-]

Yea well Judo should move out of the midwest lol.

 

[Judo777]

Yea well Judo should move out of the midwest lol.

Haha i have never even played Lain lol. But to keep it short..... yes.......yes we do lol

 

[sheikamaru]

i haven't seen any good ic's yet.. i don't have a problem w/ splitting them up and dominating :l

 

[phi1ny3]

It's problematic for sheik. Very annoying <_<

This is cool for lucario though

dair dair dair dair dair oh znap get grabbed, wait ICs can barely solo CG me! *breaks out after about 35%*
dair dair dair dair dair...

 

[saviorslegacy]

It's problematic for sheik. Very annoying <_<

This is cool for lucario though

dair dair dair dair dair oh znap get grabbed, wait ICs can barely solo CG me! *breaks out after about 35%*
dair dair dair dair dair...

I love Lucario's Dair. Is it his best move? If not, what move is?

 

[Judo777]

I love Lucario's Dair. Is it his best move? If not, what move is?

ehh tough call lucario has alot of good moves dair is one of em. Idk his ftilt and fsmash are both pretty good too but idk if you can rank em.

 

[-Mars-]

Aura is his best move.

 

[Judo777]

Aura is his best move.

Crapity crap Mars just put me in my place lol

 

[Tewx2]

Haha i have never even played Lain lol. But to keep it short..... yes.......yes we do lol

Oh Midwest ICs Mains? Everyone in MI has a pocket chaingrab Climberz I can't say for the rest of the region... But I'm sure it's the case.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea that's why I said either move or dont enter singles haha.

 

[Judo777]

Yea that's why I said either move or dont enter singles haha.

Or play Zelda lol (also i got a backup snake just in case)

 

[Zankoku]

I have a backup four different characters.

 

[-Mars-]

I have a pocket Fox I use him to cp Pika and Ice Cli........wait a minute.

 

[-Cross-]

^lol
ex-main, Marth, as a pocket character is nice. He does pretty well against Pika and much better against IC. He also ***** Snake and possibly Wario.

 

[Judo777]

^lol
ex-main, Marth, as a pocket character is nice. He does pretty well against Pika and much better against IC. He also ***** Snake and possibly Wario.

haha ***** is a strong word..... Marth might beat snake but he definitely doesn't **** him lol

 

[-Cross-]

haha ***** is a strong word..... Marth might beat snake but he definitely doesn't **** him lol

True.. **** suggest hard counter which he isn't. But Marth does have a definite advantage against Snake, that's for sure.

 

[Judo777]

True.. **** suggest hard counter which he isn't. But Marth does have a definite advantage against Snake, that's for sure.

really? you think its strong? cause i think its only slight. If snake trades marth loses.

 

[-Cross-]

really? you think its strong? cause i think its only slight. If snake trades marth loses.

Yeah I do think it is pretty strong. Marth's strong approaching mixups: nearly unpunishable retreating fair mixed with amazing grab game with f-throw frame traps. Once Marth gets Snake offstage, the danger of Marth's spike forces limited recovery options and 50/50 reads can land you a lot of damage. Snake's grenade game is not very threatening to a Marth that plays it out of Snake's ftilt range but at the edge of dash attack range. Although, many problems do occur when Marth goes CQC with Snake: bad trades (why DB is generally a bad idea in this MU), unbalanced damage output, d-throw mixups, etc. But Marth has no problem controlling the pace of the game itself.

Part of my conviction is increased by the fact that Havok went Marth instead of MK against Ally's Snake and won, and some comments from top level players that have observed the same thing, even Ally himself says Marth is one of Snake's hardest MU's. Solid 6/4

 

[Judo777]

Yeah I do think it is pretty strong. Marth's strong approaching mixups: nearly unpunishable retreating fair mixed with amazing grab game with f-throw frame traps. Once Marth gets Snake offstage, the danger of Marth's spike forces limited recovery options and 50/50 reads can land you a lot of damage. Snake's grenade game is not very threatening to a Marth that plays it out of Snake's ftilt range but at the edge of dash attack range. Although, many problems do occur when Marth goes CQC with Snake: bad trades (why DB is generally a bad idea in this MU), unbalanced damage output, d-throw mixups, etc. But Marth has no problem controlling the pace of the game itself.

Part of my conviction is increased by the fact that Havok went Marth instead of MK against Ally's Snake and won, and some comments from top level players that have observed the same thing, even Ally himself says Marth is one of Snake's hardest MU's. Solid 6/4

But maybe Ally just has marth trouble like he does wario trouble. I mean ur input is fair and im not gonna disagree cause i don't play marths enough. Although xisin does **** my snake pretty handily when we play.

 

[-Cross-]

But maybe Ally just has marth trouble like he does wario trouble. I mean ur input is fair and im not gonna disagree cause i don't play marths enough. Although xisin does **** my snake pretty handily when we play.

Could be. It's very similar to the Sheik Snake MU in the sense that the only thing that really tilts the MU into Snake's favor is his obscene weight and early killing power. So for Marth, its his game to lose, but you do not have to play as perfectly with Marth as a Sheik would have to.

I would like to think that Ally does not have Marth troubles, because he doesn't have problems against mid level Marths but he has had a bad record against Havok and MikeHaze who are clearly upper level players. Also I don't recall Ally having trouble against Wario aside from Gluttony, but I would think that's because Gluttony was just that good.

 

[-Mars-]

Didn't Hunger beat Ally?

 

[Zankoku]

Actually, I feel like I have to play more perfectly with Marth than I do with Sheik all the time. Sheik can't quite afford to get hit as much as Marth, but Marth seems far more easily punished for making slight mistakes.

 

[Judo777]

Yea actually i think Ally lost to Hunger twice. Also I might be wrong but I think NEO beat Ally once if not he came insanely close I remember that.

And Ank it may be simply because Snakes don't know sheiks lag as well as marths? Idk maybe im wrong.

 

[Tewx2]

Ally usually avoids the snake wario by going snake, so when his Cf doesn't cut it he has a really hard time.

 

[lain]

if you buffer cg it doesn't matter

/thread

 

[Judo777]

if you buffer cg it doesn't matter

/thread

this was already mentioned lol. If you just use dthrow with IC's it also doesn't matter.

 

[Tewx2]

if you buffer cg it doesn't matter

/thread

This man should have gone to SiiiS.

 

[<π]

LEARN THEN MATCH UP GUYS!

Just space with ftilt, use needles and run like a little girl. pick a stage with plats. here I'll post vids tonight or tomarrow... cuz I have more.

there is no reason to lose to IC every one of our moves out range the grab.

 

[Tewx2]

The same is true for ganon. Outranging grabs isn't the key to the MU. It's actually negligible seeing as all attacks that aren't disjointed can be be grabbed while the hotbox is still active. Platforms are helpful but, we can't do anything about uair, and we can still be cg'd on a platform. Also all Of ICs attacks using the a button out range all of our attacks except bair. ICs still have the advantage even if you don't CG'd.

 

[<π]

oh... you guys.

 

[Tewx2]

I'm personally insulted having some1 tell me my issue is that I don't know the MU when my state has 4 ICs players that regulary go to tournaments that I play in Friendlies and consistently lose to in tournament. People legit pick ICs only when they are playing me cause they know how to CG. Idk what ICs player your beating to say that the MU is even but odds are he's a player far far far below your ability as a smasher.