I want Samus stuff, I need you to answer this for me.

-Philip Coast Philip- · Oct 24, 2013

ManoxMano · Oct 25, 2013

gotta love em
double jump nairing someone after a dtilt even when a full hop wouldve worked
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm m

Litt · Oct 25, 2013

Slide finger from x to y when doing double jumps, allows for missile spam on stages with medium high platforms and even high platforms

-Philip Coast Philip- · Oct 27, 2013

ManoxMano said:
gotta love em
double jump nairing someone after a dtilt even when a full hop wouldve worked
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm m

K_Litt said:
Slide finger from x to y when doing double jumps, allows for missile spam on stages with medium high platforms and even high platforms

wtf you guys talking about go respond to my post

ManoxMano · Oct 27, 2013

Woah I thought this thread was about double jumps, it suddenly changed into this

Hmm, I'd say all wessed up and Hey Hugs... does a pretty good job of showcasing their talent already, I wouldn't want to see more stuff from them.

Personally I think compiling cool combos from the more recent samus mains would be really cool - people like Plup, Duck, hell even Violence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qNpS0PCwb0E#t=30
Time link isn't working...27 seconds in

It all depends on your overall goals - do you want it to be a giant showcase of the best samus plays since launch? Or do you want to focus on only a few players or eras?

-Philip Coast Philip- · Oct 27, 2013

ManoxMano said:
Woah I thought this thread was about double jumps, it suddenly changed into this

heh. Yeah I used an inconspicuous title... I was testing formatting for the remake of this thread. Then I didn't have anything else to post... yet.

Well originally I tossed around the idea of actually attempting to accomplish a massive compilation of all the best Samus plays since the beginning... thus my list of all those youtube channels. But, as cool as that'd be, it'd be a ridiculous amount of work that... would really only give me the title of being "completionist" about it. Especially since 60-80% of the stuff you sift through regardless doesn't yield anything that entertaining. Bringing the scope down to just the notable Samus players over time certainly refines the search, but still doesn't narrow down the task of looking for all these vids to a size manageable by one person.

Sorry if that sentence is a little complex. Basically if I source work to you guys, the video can and will still boast a level of comprehensiveness. So to answer your question: It really depends on how much you guys would be willing to help. If you want eras, you have to decide. If you want players, you have to decide.

So, if you guys could agree on which players you'd like to see, then the task of searching for vids and combos of those players can be delegated, and the workload can be lessened greatly.

Making a good video of even one player is a lot of hours of work. It probably helps if I roughly timeline the production process for everyone.

There are three main stages: collection, design, and production (editing).

Collection takes the longest by far. It's easily half of the work on its own, also the most time-consuming. Basically, how do I get clips? There's a variable process chain depending on whether I get the videos from YouTube or I capture them myself, but it basically looks like this: record/find/download --> review videos for desired clips --> convert/process video to manageable format --> cut/organize clips by type/kind --> import into editing software and sort.

(So for YouTube clips, I gotta search through people's channels, double check I'm getting videos of that player playing the character I want, then download the videos, ensuring I'm getting high quality versions when possible, then make sure my software can actually handle the clips and I'm not stuck with some dumb codec issue that basically plagues the whole of digital video communication. I can streamline the downloading part by batch-creating and downloading links, but the search process gets tedious after awhile... and then I have to go through all those videos I just downloaded, of course, to search for clips.)

If I can reach that point in the production process, I'm happy, I'm basically set to edit. Because that like I said by far is the most work of the process, due to the sheer time in reviewing everything but also the small technical steps that must be done correctly if the clips are going to be usable.

Design is definitely the most creative and also easiest part of the process: this is where I'm just reviewing clips, deciding on what kind of theme I think best befits the clips, listening to music and deciding which song(s) will work. But it can also suffer from hangups if I'm stuck on figuring out how I want a certain effect to appear or whether I'm deciding which clip to use or set aside, or which theme to go for or distinguish the video away from. But whatever, this step happens at all points of the production process and everyone can do it in their head, even before you begin (but hopefully not after I'm done.. I make sure to keep that from happening but one time I was impatient and I had regrets later...).

Production: this is just editing, rendering, and then uploading and presentation (like creating the thread, listing sources of things when applicable, checking the upload, matching links... mundane post-production stuff). Rendering usually takes a little bit of tweaking, but is a small amount of time in the long run.

The most work-intensive (though not necessarily time-intensive) is, of course, probably the editing part: that's where everything comes together, the songs are chosen, the clips are organized, the idea is set, and stuff can begin to be pieced together. Hangups can occur (and this latest version of Vegas sucks it crashes with the dumbest bugs like not being able to save keyframed text animations how bad??? can you get), and some effects can take a lot of work or tedious adjustments to get right, but generally, it's the most fun part, putting a clip in, seeing how it fits, getting a better idea, having that work better, etc., and seeing the whole thing come together.

Of course, the steps don't all happen in order and they inevitably overlap, like I mentioned with the design process (I have files of ideas already written down).

An example, though. Plup's videos are somewhat scarce on YouTube to begin with, but there's probably near 8-10 hours of footage of him already. And while that's still 8-10 hours of footage to go through for one person, it's much more feasible for just one person than having to do others.

If I were to crunch the numbers, I estimate I put 6-9 times more work into my videos than the average cv, plus my videos tend to be longer than the average by about 70-90% (4-5 minutes vs 8 minutes). Even with conservative numbers (fast editing), if it takes 8 hours to go through 8-10 hours of vids (plus the 2 it may take to get them) thus giving a baseline of 10 hours for 8-10 hours of vids, and say it then takes some average cv-maker a mere 6 hours to put together a 4 minute combo vid (plus an extra few hours of rendering and uploading), that's 10+3+6 or nearly 20 hours for them, but roughly 10+3+6*8*1.8 or over 100 hours for me on my higher end of production (or around 70 for my lower end). To compare, blitz-editing that higher-end production just-over 2 minute vid of Violence which only featured clips from two matches took me perhaps 30-35+ hours. My first vid Varia-ous Aggression (highest end) has anywhere from 3 to 10 times the amount of each element your average cv has, and I edited it for a straight month in the summer, and that was before I made the credits. For a lower-end production level, but still 8-minute long vid, I spent 2 or 3 solid weeks editing 7 hours of footage to make my Einhander vid, probably more around 50 or 60 hours in total.

Phew, ok. Last thing. From a technical point of view, the technical (physical) process chain (just straightforward tasks along the conversion process) from capturing to rendering has roughly 15-20 steps in it. Just want to mention that.

So, in all... you see, if someone just points to a vid and says "hey this match is pretty cool," I can easily take that match and basically have that clip and be ready to edit it.

But the time to search and download and then process and edit... would be nicer to do if I had some help narrowing down the scope, or even help finding the clips and such.

ManoxMano · Oct 27, 2013

That's a cool amount of information. I'm actually wanting to get into video editing myself so now I have a new sense of reality about it all.
Anyways, considering the ridiculous amount of time it takes to edit all these videos, why not go for the long run? A complete samus combo vid from beginning to present seems godlike.
Personally, I wouldn't mind sifting through vids and sending you cool clips. The way I see it that I'm learning new tech from all the vids that I can implement into my own play, so it's sort of like a win-win situation. I'm contributing to a really sick project and I become a better samus player. If anyone's reluctant to take the time for this project consider this opportunity of becoming a better player too.
And then like you said, there's the design and production, which I have no doubts in you. Varia-ous Aggression was amazing but it would be nice to have some say about a combo vid that's about all of us, in a way. Nevertheless you'd probably have the final say about things like that

Pluplue · Oct 27, 2013

If only Florida had recording setups :[. Having combos from all sorts of Samus players sounds like a great idea.

Adict · Oct 28, 2013

i think it sounds like a cool idea. seems like a crap load of work but if its done correctly the end result will be worth it. id be willing to help sift through youtube finding some vids to help. im not very computer smart though so linking you to those vids would probably be the best i could do lol. and i work 10 hours a day so i would only have a few hours a day to help, 2-3 or so, but i most definitely would do so

also an idea might be for everyone willing to help, assign them a certain person to find vids of. once a good amount of clips/vids is collected for that player they could move on to someone knew or sift through the youtube/live stream vids for lesser known samus mains and get some of their stuff in aswell and let them get some recognition, would which be a pretty big morale boost for em aswell as interesting to watch.

ManoxMano · Oct 28, 2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTab-eFFre4&feature=player_detailpage#t=28
28 seconds in, hot damn

Jagoffian · Oct 30, 2013

I'd be down to help you find vidyas as well. I definitely have the free time for it lol.

In regards to the subject(s) of the video, if you're going to do it on one player, I would suggest Darrell. Most combo-oriented Samus and he probably has the most footage available with the exception of maybe Hugs /regionbias. But a compilation video of all the recent-ish top Sami (Hugs/Duck/Darrell/Plup/IHSB/Cyr) would be pretty sick. I think a group video would work much better, given the distinct styles of all those dudes.

ManoxMano · Nov 1, 2013

Just throwing an idea out there

Start the vid with a bit of G2 of this set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEQnksfJSY4&feature=player_detailpage#t=297
(04:57)
Then display this quote from HugS' blog entry : I know I have fans out there who'd hate to see me stop maining Samus. I know there are people out there who are fans because I've stuck to this character despite all the obstacles, and all without ever wavering on what they feel to be true: that anyone can do it if they work hard enough. That's essentially what winning with this character represents: that anyone can succeed.

It should probably paraphrased a bit, but anyways:

Then this sick ass comeback: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEQnksfJSY4&feature=player_detailpage#t=514
(08:34)
It can be shortened or not considered at all
But this combo HAS to be in there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEQnksfJSY4&feature=player_detailpage#t=536
(08:52)
*edit: I really hate it when specific timing link doesnt work

ManoxMano · Nov 1, 2013

Also:
A lot of cool things happen in this match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WidoiWJvNsA

-Philip Coast Philip- · Nov 5, 2013

Why don't I just make a big post and not respond to it in awhile...

ManoxMano said:
That's a cool amount of information. I'm actually wanting to get into video editing myself so now I have a new sense of reality about it all.
Anyways, considering the ridiculous amount of time it takes to edit all these videos, why not go for the long run? A complete samus combo vid from beginning to present seems godlike.
. . . it would be nice to have some say about a combo vid that's about all of us, in a way. Nevertheless you'd probably have the final say about things like that

Thanks. Yeah good luck. I have a thread I check sometimes (the 'fine(r) production' one in my sig), and I was working on a guide for 'high' quality capturing and encoding, dunno if/when I'll finish that though. I'm usually pretty happy to answer any questions, but I also know some good resources like video tutorials for, say, using Vegas. I mean I'm pretty sure I can remember them... I might have them written down somewhere..

About the time.. well, good point I guess. The next couple of videos I was interested in doing would be lower effort, but not without implementing some ideas I have. I may use them as practice for the bigger video. Hm.

Agreed, showcasing multiple players and styles would be inclusive? and cool.

Pluplue said:
If only Florida had recording setups :[.

Aye. I actually almost started writing a guide because of your post... then it got complicated and I stopped.

Adict said:
seems like a crap load of work but if its done correctly the end result will be worth it.
. . .
also an idea might be for everyone willing to help, assign them a certain person to find vids of. once a good amount of clips/vids is collected for that player they could move on to someone knew or sift through the youtube/live stream vids for lesser known samus mains and get some of their stuff in aswell and let them get some recognition, would which be a pretty big morale boost for em aswell as interesting to watch.

Word yo. Yeah I'd organize and such.

ManoxMano said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTab-eFFre4&feature=player_detailpage#t=28
28 seconds in, hot damn

Not bad..

Jagoffian said:
In regards to the subject(s) of the video, if you're going to do it on one player, I would suggest Darrell. Most combo-oriented Samus and he probably has the most footage available with the exception of maybe Hugs /regionbias. But a compilation video of all the recent-ish top Sami (Hugs/Duck/Darrell/Plup/IHSB/Cyr) would be pretty sick. I think a group video would work much better, given the distinct styles of all those dudes.

I'll keep an eye out.

For everyone saying they'd help find vids/clips, thanks. I think the project may have to go on the back burner for now, but maybe around winter break I'll spend some time on it. I think I mostly wanted to get a feel for at least a few opinions, just bounce the idea off someone. So good input.

-Philip Coast Philip- · Nov 5, 2013

ManoxMano said:
Just throwing an idea out there

Start the vid with a bit of G2 of this set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEQnksfJSY4&feature=player_detailpage#t=297
(04:57)
Then display this quote from HugS' blog entry : I know I have fans out there who'd hate to see me stop maining Samus. I know there are people out there who are fans because I've stuck to this character despite all the obstacles, and all without ever wavering on what they feel to be true: that anyone can do it if they work hard enough. That's essentially what winning with this character represents: that anyone can succeed.

It should probably paraphrased a bit, but anyways:

Then this sick *** comeback: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEQnksfJSY4&feature=player_detailpage#t=536
(08:52)
It can be shortened or not considered at all
But this combo HAS to be in there!

lol. That first link I'm watching the match and going "alright..knut... you're missing some great opportunities I know you can do but..." and then "daaang that was slick." The rare zero-death with Samus. I'll definitely put that combo in ha.

You gotta think bigger my man(ox)! If someone's going to go through all the trouble of collecting all the Samus combos you'd better think their intro is going to be nothing less than epic

Well.. we'll see..

HugS quote is pretty good. I think I'm going to give that impression without stating it. "Short and sweet" is Samus' goal, so to speak. You can always do better and with more style, it's a goal, not just a possibility. So, Samus isn't limited by what you think she might be, you can push her to limits that weren't possible before.

I want Samus stuff, I need you to answer this for me.

If a combo video were to be made, which would you rather see?

One showcasing an individual player, editor's choice (or my suggestion in comments).

I'd be willing to help pool clips or look for videos or players to include in a group Samus video.

-Philip Coast Philip-

Smash Ace

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman

Litt

Samus

-Philip Coast Philip-

Smash Ace

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman

-Philip Coast Philip-

Smash Ace

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman

Pluplue

Smash Ace

Adict

Smash Cadet

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman

Jagoffian

Smash Journeyman

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman

ManoxMano

Smash Journeyman

-Philip Coast Philip-

Smash Ace

-Philip Coast Philip-

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