I might have the reason for Fox having 2 clones

[The Kirby Kong]

You know how most people prefer playing as Fox in Melee because he's so good?

Well, what about if they split him up into 3 different characters.

1. Fox - Fast, low dmg.
2. Falco - In between.
3. Wolf - Slow, high dmg.

Sakurai probably did what he thought most of us wanted.

Because most people use Fox, he gave those players some more diversity to choose from?

Just a theory, but I'm interested what you guys think.

 

[Xarias]

Wolf isn't a clone.

Falco is luigified.

 

[F@lc0-san]

I could cry now....really...

And not even because people still think Wolf is a Clone...

No, because my faith in humanity has been officially shattered..

 

[The Kirby Kong]

Wolf isn't a clone.

Falco is luigified.

Luigified or not, they're still clones with tweaked movesets.

My question remains... did Sakurai do this to add diversity to the many people enjoying Fox?

 

[F@lc0-san]

Luigified or not, they're still clones with tweaked movesets.

My question remains... did Sakurai do this to add diversity to the many people enjoying Fox?

UP B ATTACK
--------------------
Fox: fire fox. A charge followed by a flaming dash in the air.

Wolf: seems like a jetpack. NO CHARGE, just a sudden blast in any direction. This is comparable in difference to Luigi's up B and Mario's. Similar, yet different.

B ATTACK
----------------
Fox: blaster. It fires lasers at rapid speed. The lasers are thin and red and travel very fast.

Wolf: TOTALLY different animation. The lasers are nothing like Fox's. In fact, this move is more like Zero Suit Samus's stun gun. This move is actually not a copy of Fox's blaster at all. The animation is different, the effect is very different. This is a new move.

SIDE B ATTACK
---------------
Fox: Fox illusion. A speedy horizontal dash.

Wolf: Has a similar move, except it goes at a slight 25degree angle. This is indeed a "cloned" move.

DOWN B ATTACK
-------------------
Fox: reflector. It's blue and hexagonal. Hits opponents away.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. Red and has blades that fan out on either side. This probably has much greater offensive power, yet nobody has managed to land it at close range yet. Seems unique enough to be considered a new move.

FORWARD SMASH ATTACK
--------------------
Fox: a leaping heel kick in Tae Kwon Do style. Moves Fox forward a bit.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. A lunging palm strike that covers a great deal of horizontal difference and has substantial lag afterwards, yet starts quickly. This is a totally new move, and is like a cross between Captain Falcon's Fsmash and the illusion move.

UP SMASH ATTACK
--------------------
Fox: flip kick. Covers a semi-circle above Fox's head starting in front of him.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. A jumping upside-down dropkick in the Capoera style that hits above him in a single motion, covering a lot more range above him and slightly to the side as his legs spin into position. Once again, massive range and is a totally unique move.

DOWN SMASH ATTACK
------------------
Fox: a split kick that hits on either side of Fox equally. Fast with lag.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. Wolf swipes low with his claws, hitting in front of him first and then behind. A unique move that's similar in element to Link's down smash.

FORWARD TILT ATTACK
------------------------
Fox: does a quick roundhouse kick in front of him in Tae Kwon Do style.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. Wolf claws at the opponent with a swing of his arm. Lots of lag and it seems almost like a smash attack in its speed and power. Once again...a unique move.

-----------------------
And that's all we've seen of Wolf as of yet, however, it's clear that he's not nearly worthy of the same "clone" title as people have been giving him just because of his red landmaster. If you're going to complain about Starfox clones, go whine about Falco. NOT WOLF.

 

[The Kirby Kong]

And that's all we've seen of Wolf as of yet, however, it's clear that he's not nearly worthy of the same "clone" title as people have been giving him just because of his red landmaster. If you're going to complain about Starfox clones, go whine about Falco. NOT WOLF.

Luigified, heavily luigified... they're still tweaked clones.

By the way, it seems you're taking this personal and just get irritated when people call these characters clones.

But you haven't realized why I made this thread, to explain the GOOD things about Fox having 2 clones. Which is... that Fox was very popular in Melee and thus they give different variations of the same kind of character and people can choose which one fits them more.

PS. Wolf having different animations doesn't suddenly make his moves 'new'. They're still based on Fox.

 

[Fatmanonice]

UP B ATTACK
--------------------
Fox: fire fox. A charge followed by a flaming dash in the air.

Wolf: seems like a jetpack. NO CHARGE, just a sudden blast in any direction. This is comparable in difference to Luigi's up B and Mario's. Similar, yet different.

B ATTACK
----------------
Fox: blaster. It fires lasers at rapid speed. The lasers are thin and red and travel very fast.

Wolf: TOTALLY different animation. The lasers are nothing like Fox's. In fact, this move is more like Zero Suit Samus's stun gun. This move is actually not a copy of Fox's blaster at all. The animation is different, the effect is very different. This is a new move.

SIDE B ATTACK
---------------
Fox: Fox illusion. A speedy horizontal dash.

Wolf: Has a similar move, except it goes at a slight 25degree angle. This is indeed a "cloned" move.

DOWN B ATTACK
-------------------
Fox: reflector. It's blue and hexagonal. Hits opponents away.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. Red and has blades that fan out on either side. This probably has much greater offensive power, yet nobody has managed to land it at close range yet. Seems unique enough to be considered a new move.

FORWARD SMASH ATTACK
--------------------
Fox: a leaping heel kick in Tae Kwon Do style. Moves Fox forward a bit.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. A lunging palm strike that covers a great deal of horizontal difference and has substantial lag afterwards, yet starts quickly. This is a totally new move, and is like a cross between Captain Falcon's Fsmash and the illusion move.

UP SMASH ATTACK
--------------------
Fox: flip kick. Covers a semi-circle above Fox's head starting in front of him.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. A jumping upside-down dropkick in the Capoera style that hits above him in a single motion, covering a lot more range above him and slightly to the side as his legs spin into position. Once again, massive range and is a totally unique move.

DOWN SMASH ATTACK
------------------
Fox: a split kick that hits on either side of Fox equally. Fast with lag.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. Wolf swipes low with his claws, hitting in front of him first and then behind. A unique move that's similar in element to Link's down smash.

FORWARD TILT ATTACK
------------------------
Fox: does a quick roundhouse kick in front of him in Tae Kwon Do style.

Wolf: DIFFERENT ANIMATION. Wolf claws at the opponent with a swing of his arm. Lots of lag and it seems almost like a smash attack in its speed and power. Once again...a unique move.

-----------------------
And that's all we've seen of Wolf as of yet, however, it's clear that he's not nearly worthy of the same "clone" title as people have been giving him just because of his red landmaster. If you're going to complain about Starfox clones, go whine about Falco. NOT WOLF.

This only supports the one guys arguement that Wolf is a Luigified version of Fox... -_-'

 

[Shuma]

I hear Lucario moves are based on Mewtwo. OMG CLONE CLONE!.

Wolf is not a clone. If you deny it then either you're biased against him, or you're blind, or stupid.

WOLF.IS.NOT.A.CLONE.

 

[LordLocke]

The reason Fox got two clones is because both Fox and Falco were among the most popular characters in Melee. Adding a wanted face (Wolf) with a similarish playstyle probably seemed like too much of a gimmie to ignore for the Brawl team.

 

[Rick88]

Sounds logical, it would also make sense to say they wanted to have more variety for Star Fox fans >_>.

 

[The Kirby Kong]

The reason Fox got two clones is because both Fox and Falco were among the most popular characters in Melee. Adding a wanted face (Wolf) with a similarish playstyle probably seemed like too much of a gimmie to ignore for the Brawl team.

Finally someone that understands.

Also, if I recall correctly... Wolf was one of the most popular characters people wanted in Melee. I find it kinda odd how quick people have changed their minds.

 

[Banjodorf]

You know how most people prefer playing as Fox in Melee because he's so good?

Well, what about if they split him up into 3 different characters.

1. Fox - Fast, low dmg.
2. Falco - In between.
3. Wolf - Slow, high dmg.

Sakurai probably did what he thought most of us wanted.

Because most people use Fox, he gave those players some more diversity to choose from?

Just a theory, but I'm interested what you guys think.

Except... he doesnt have 2 clones, he hardly has one clone.

Wolf is not even close to a clone

Falco has many noticeable differences in his attacks, although they are the same as Fox's

 

[The Kirby Kong]

Except... he doesnt have 2 clones, he hardly has one clone.

Wolf is not even close to a clone

Falco has many noticeable differences in his attacks, although they are the same as Fox's

*sigh*

Can you people at least TRY to read over this whole clone thing? I'm trying to explain the positive aspect of their similarities here.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I hear Lucario moves are based on Mewtwo. OMG CLONE CLONE!.

Wolf is not a clone. If you deny it then either you're biased against him, or you're blind, or stupid.

WOLF.IS.NOT.A.CLONE.

What are of SEMI-CLONE do you not understand? Is it really that hard for you to rap around your brain that Wolf is to Fox as Luigi is to Mario? Also, mechanically, Lucario does borrow a lot from Mewtwo and is basically Mewtwo 2.0 like how Ike is essentially Marth/Roy 2.0.

 

[F@lc0-san]

What are of SEMI-CLONE do you not understand? Is it really that hard for you to rap around your brain that Wolf is to Fox as Luigi is to Mario? Also, mechanically, Lucario does borrow a lot from Mewtwo and is basically Mewtwo 2.0 like how Ike is essentially Marth/Roy 2.0.

Ok thats it, you called Ike a marth/Roy 2.0

Im not gonna discuzz anything with you, you're crazy

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

This only supports the one guys arguement that Wolf is a Luigified version of Fox... -_-'

No, it is more exact to say ''Lucas-fied'', since Lucas is more diverse from Ness.

I don't understand how people are annoyed at Wolf? Clearly it is Falco who is the problem! He is clone of the Fox Trio!

 

[F@lc0-san]

No, it is more exact to say ''Lucas-fied'', since Lucas is more diverse from Ness.

I don't understand how people are annoyed at Wolf? Clearly it is Falco who is the problem! He is clone of the Fox Trio!

Actually acording to kashikomarima****a he is quite different aswell.

I bought the game today and have been playing through SSE, and got far enough to unlock Falco. He is considerably different than Fox.

First and foremost his forward smash. It has less range but still knocks backwards. He strikes down with his fist for this move. The same goes for his nuetral air. Again some strange punch that is nothing like Fox' kick. His forward air is a spinning move where he flies out head first. As for his reflector he throws it forward and it can be used in the air as well. His lazer is the same as last time. Only now it is blue instead of red. His up b is pretty much the same, as is his forward b. However all his standard attacks have been changed like I said. Only his down smash, running forward a, and back air a, down air a and up smash a are the same as Fox. I cant quite figure out if their FS are different either.

I havent unlocked Wolf yet, but Ill let you know when I get him and do a comparison as well.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, this game rocks!!

Topic http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140006

 

[Fatmanonice]

Ok thats it, you called Ike a marth/Roy 2.0

Im not gonna discuzz anything with you, you're crazy

And you're blind to the fact that Ike shares a decent number of characteristics from Marth and Roy in Melee. Also, how am I crazy when you're the one running around the forums trying to convince everyone that Wolf is in no shape or form a semi-clone of Fox despite the enormous amount of evidence showing otherwise?

 

[The Kirby Kong]

Actually acording to kashikomarima****a he is quite different aswell.

Are you slow or what?

I don't care if they're luigified, if they're heavily luigified, or whatever you wanna call it.
You can't deny that their movesets are based on another character.

Now, let's say it one last time... I'm trying to explain the positive aspect of their similarities.
Fox and Falco were popular characters in Melee, thus they add a third and tweak their movesets, animations, you name it.

I was merely asking if you guys could understand the logic in this...

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

Actually acording to kashikomarima****a he is quite different aswell.

Topic http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140006

Really!? Awesome! Great news! I really lovin' this roster!

Join in if ya want!​

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

Sounds logical, it would also make sense to say they wanted to have more variety for Star Fox fans >_>.

heh, its true StarFox fans wanted variety... thats why we wanted Krystal -_-

 

[Fatmanonice]

Are you slow or what?

I don't care if they're luigified, if they're heavily luigified, or whatever you wanna call it.
You can't deny that their movesets are based on another character.

Now, let's say it one last time... I'm trying to explain the positive aspect of their similarities.
Fox and Falco were popular characters in Melee, thus they add a third and tweak their movesets, animations, you name it.

I was merely asking if you guys could understand the logic in this...

I understand what your saying but this is what smash boards is going to be like for awhile, sadly.

 

[F@lc0-san]

No, it is more exact to say ''Lucas-fied'', since Lucas is more diverse from Ness.

I don't understand how people are annoyed at Wolf? Clearly it is Falco who is the problem! He is clone of the Fox Trio!

Actually acording to kashikomarima****a he is quite different aswell.

I bought the game today and have been playing through SSE, and got far enough to unlock Falco. He is considerably different than Fox.

First and foremost his forward smash. It has less range but still knocks backwards. He strikes down with his fist for this move. The same goes for his nuetral air. Again some strange punch that is nothing like Fox' kick. His forward air is a spinning move where he flies out head first. As for his reflector he throws it forward and it can be used in the air as well. His lazer is the same as last time. Only now it is blue instead of red. His up b is pretty much the same, as is his forward b. However all his standard attacks have been changed like I said. Only his down smash, running forward a, and back air a, down air a and up smash a are the same as Fox. I cant quite figure out if their FS are different either.

I havent unlocked Wolf yet, but Ill let you know when I get him and do a comparison as well.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, this game rocks!!

Topic http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140006

 

[Noypi_GjD]

Hahah Tier list:

Top Tier:
1. Fox
2. Wolf
3. Falco
.... hope this isn't true >.>

 

[Yuna]

Fox was only "popular" because he was Top Tier. All of the Top Tier characters are popular. Then again, we have Ike and Zero Suit Samus (similar to Sheik)... no Peach clone at least.

 

[Seanson]

This only supports the one guys arguement that Wolf is a Luigified version of Fox... -_-'

From what I know, luigi isn't a clone of anyone. It seems you're supporting the idea that Wolf is unique.

He is.

 

[Rang Flash]

Everyone who says Wolf is a clone are just making judgements based on appearances. ZOMG HE KINDA IS SHAPED LIKE FOX ZOMG CLONEZ!

 

[Levia7han117]

----------

 

[Arteen]

I agree with Kirby Kong somewhat. Fox and Falco are fun characters, especially how their slight differences make a big difference in people's preferences for them. They're fun to play, too. Wolf is popular. They could easily implement another Fox clone very quickly and make him fun too. So they did. Why did he get the spot instead of Krystal? Well, he didn't. Wolf was probably added for the same reasons Falco, Roy, Pichu, Dr Mario, etc were added in Melee. The team just gave us an extra character that they didn't initially intend to add. He (apparently) isn't in SSE, even though he would have been a perfect fit as an antagonist, so clearly he wasn't planned from the start.

Hahah Tier list:

Top Tier:
1. Fox
2. Wolf
3. Falco
.... hope this isn't true >.>

It will probably be:

StarFox Tier
Fox/Wolf/Falco

God Tier
Sheik
Marth

Mortal Tier
Everyone else

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

 

[WolfCypher]

1. Fox - Fast, low dmg.
2. Falco - In between.
3. Wolf - Slow, high dmg.

But I've seen in the videos that Wolf is fast. His attacks come out quickly and his default speed is great.

I hear Lucario moves are based on Mewtwo. OMG CLONE CLONE!.

And Mewtwo is a clone of Mew. IT NEVER ENDS!

 

[Weltunter]

Everyone who says Wolf is a clone are just making judgements based on appearances. ZOMG HE KINDA IS SHAPED LIKE FOX ZOMG CLONEZ!

They both have simliar B-moves, you can't deny that

Neutral B: Blaster shot (one is faster and red, the other is slower and blue)
Side B: Illusion (one goes straitght forward, the other one 25° upward)
Up B: Fire Fox/Jetpack (again different animation and direction of the boost)
Down B: Reflector/Shield

The moves are all different in animation, damage and knockback, but they are similiar. That's why they are called SEMI-CLONES

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

OR Sakurai just lacks any concept of common sense. I think this is much closer to the truth than any conspiracy theory about the three versions of the same character.

 

[TiersAreReal]

heh, its true StarFox fans wanted variety... thats why we wanted Krystal -_-

Oh, please. There are a large number of fans of Star Fox who liked the series best when Fox actually stayed in a vehicle for the majority of the game. And Wolf is of that era. I swear, if Krystal were in, her taunt would be "We must save Sauria!"

 

[Sl1th]

Many forum members seem to be coneaphobic when the characters are less clone like than less game

Wolf, Fox, and Falco are similar, but not the same which is the definition of a clone. Wolfs attacks have differant animations and perform much differantly than Foxs meaning they can be used in differant ways which means he will have a differant play style from fox, and this counts the most. In SSBM Fox and Falco approched battles in much the same way, what with shine combos and lasering. Wolf has differant attributes all around and will have to be played differantly.

This not only applies to Wolf, but the other clones. Falco is much differant from last game, from what ive seen in gameplay vids his Shine works differantly from Fox's, it kind of shoots out in front of him and this could add more techniques to shine combos.
we see it on this video at about 1:51
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB6X-hp8QtM

anyway the big point im trying to get across is the "cloes" are differant enough to be played in differant ways, which is what really counts.

 

[Yuna]

Many forum members seem to be coneaphobic when the characters are less clone like than less game

Wolf, Fox, and Falco are similar, but not the same which is the definition of a clone. Wolfs attacks have differant animations and perform much differantly than Foxs meaning they can be used in differant ways which means he will have a differant play style from fox, and this counts the most. In SSBM Fox and Falco approched battles in much the same way, what with shine combos and lasering. Wolf has differant attributes all around and will have to be played differantly.

This not only applies to Wolf, but the other clones. Falco is much differant from last game, from what ive seen in gameplay vids his Shine works differantly from Fox's, it kind of shoots out in front of him and this could add more techniques to shine combos.

"In the video game industry, a clone is a game or game series which is very similar to or heavily inspired by a previous popular game or game series. Some video game genres are founded by such archetypical games that all subsequent similar games are thought of as derivatives."

From Wikipedia's description of clones. That's how most people define cloned characters, as well. They don't have to have the exact same moveset, neither esthetically nor functionally, but if they're just a bit too similar, it's a clone. It does not matter if Falco's moveset in Melee just looked the same with certain moves having different properties, he was still a clone.

 

[The Kirby Kong]

anyway the big point im trying to get across is the "clones" are differant enough to be played in differant ways, which is what really counts.

And that is exactly what I tried to say. They might be semi-clones, but they're based on a wildy popular character, and it just gives that popular character two slightly different playstyles, which is a good thing.

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

"In the video game industry, a clone is a game or game series which is very similar to or heavily inspired by a previous popular game or game series. Some video game genres are founded by such archetypical games that all subsequent similar games are thought of as derivatives."

From Wikipedia's description of clones. That's how most people define cloned characters, as well. They don't have to have the exact same moveset, neither esthetically nor functionally, but if they're just a bit too similar, it's a clone. It does not matter if Falco's moveset in Melee just looked the same with certain moves having different properties, he was still a clone.

Even if it is ''how most people define cloned characters'' regardless it remains as just opinions. This includes both sides of this discussion. Neither of you can prove you point with raw facts. Why not chill out, flick on the kettle and have some tea...