"I hope I can figure out the secret of its power one day" - Shulk AT's/tech thread

[Jerm]

Yooo @ Eisen got it to work! With fantastic results if I do say so myself :D

Dash Cancel 1

This was against Slavo in the Hypest last night.

Dash Cancel 2

Here is a nice cross map example. People think they are safe by jumping off the ledge then bam-get their soul snatched xD

Dash Cancel 3

Here is one against ma boy Ponco.

Freaking love this tech and that sexy utilt has officially cemented itself as my favourite tilt in the game

Shout outs to @Artryuu for helping me make the GIFS <3

Aaaand some bonus footage.

Buster eats shields! >: ] Note that if you dsmash too soon they will perfect shield it every time. You need to throw in a little bit of a charge which also helps in just slaughtering that shield. If you notice your opponent always opts for get ups throw on that buster and take that stock real quick

 

[erico9001]

Yooo @ Eisen got it to work! With fantastic results if I do say so myself :D

This was against Slavo in the Hypest last night.

Here is a nice cross map example. People think they are safe by jumping off the ledge then bam-get their soul snatched xD

Here is one against ma boy Ponco.

Freaking love this tech and that sexy utilt has officially cemented itself as my favourite tilt in the game

Shout outs to @Artryuu for helping me make the GIFS <3

Aaaand some bonus footage.

Buster eats shields! >: ] Note that if you dsmash too soon they will perfect shield it every time. You need to throw in a little bit of a charge which also helps in just slaughtering that shield. If you notice your opponent always opts for get ups throw on that buster and take that stock real quick

Looks like incentive to have the right stick set to tilts. Now that I think of it, it's a tech you can't do while using decisive arts. So far, Decisive arts have been really bad for techs as they have all involved the activation of the monado arts.

Both MALLC and the dash cancel put together, looks like you have two different ATs you can perform from when dashing at the opponent while going through your monado arts. You could fake out somebody by making it look like you're going to do a dash cancel attack, but really you then short hop (or RAR SH) and immediately afterwards change your art and do an aerial (method 1 I showed in that MALLC video)

 

[Jerm]

Looks like incentive to have the right stick set to tilts. Now that I think of it, it's a tech you can't do while using decisive arts. So far, Decisive arts have been really bad for techs as they have all involved the activation of the monado arts.

Both MALLC and the dash cancel put together, looks like you have two different ATs you can perform from when dashing at the opponent while going through your monado arts. You could fake out somebody by making it look like you're going to do a dash cancel attack, but really you then short hop (or RAR SH) and immediately afterwards change your art and do an aerial (method 1 I showed in that MALLC video)

Decisive arts are incredible in teams...but yea they remove a lot of awesome tech that Shulk has going for him. I feel a majority of the techs (like MALLC etc.) are not as useful in teams anyways. Decisive shield is the ultimate stock tank- you are never losing stocks ever in that art! And decisive smash takes stocks with no mercy. Shulk can literally play any team member role at any given moment. I don't recommend Decisive Arts for 1v1's tho.

MALLC and dash cancel are such cool techs, they make me fall in love with the character all over again! And I also suggest switching c stick to tilts. I always found myself getting punished and losing stocks by constantly throwing out random smash attacks. I've been much harder to take stocks off of since changing to tilts simply because it is harder to punish his tilts since they are so much faster. Buster f tilt shield pressure and damage is insaneeee btw xD And smash U tilt is such a good kill option-especially with the dash cancel tech.

 

[Eisen]

Hey guys, played with this a little more while I had the time today, and found a couple cool/creative uses for this which I explain here. It boils down to:

- using monado art cancels to more safely get onstage from the ledge using two options
- using MALLC from varying spots and with varying platform layouts
- possible uses for MALLC and platform play
- Specifics on a few stages and how MALLC works on them

When I found out I could monado art cancel from an edgegrab, I was ecstatic. We've gotta take Shulk to the next level, guys!

 

[erico9001]

I was getting annoyed at not being able to use my art activation while in Decisive arts for MALLC, so I figured out the inputs/timings for it.

Method 1)
SH and directly afterwards hit B for the art. Shortly afterwards, use your double jump, and fast fall when possible (once you're at the top of the arc)

Method 2)
***Can do this with your eyes closed***
FH. While rising, you can change your art. When around the top of the arc, use your second jump at roughly the same time as you press B.
---Note: If at the exact top of the arc, Bair will have too much hitstun for MALLC to work. Use ever so slightly before or after the top of the arc of your first jump to get your perfect MALLC. Fair can be used at the absolute top of the arc, however. The beautiful thing about this method is it is very hard to mess up the timing. Still works when not at the top of the arc.

Method 3)
Full hop off a platform roughly the height of Battlefield's lower platforms or Smashville's platform. Immediately after the FH, press B. Land on the ground below with no fast fall.

 

[erico9001]

For MALLC, I recommend setting either the right or left bumper (Pro), or the z button (GC), to jump. Since you don't need to move your thumb between X/Y and B, it is much easier to do the inputs for MALLC. For that reason, tap jumping is okay for this, but tap jumping slows down your horizontal air speed.

Anyways... new methods for Decisive MALLC!:

Method 4)
-How to do: Short hop, ASAP afterwards hit B, ASAP afterwards aerial jump, no fast fall.
-Comment: I like this one a lot. It's easy, and very similar in feel to the short hop method used with regular monado arts. Requires less timing than method 1, but faster inputs (which is okay if you have a jump as a shoulder button).

Method 5)
-How to do: Full hop, ASAP afterwards hit B, ASAP afterwards aerial jump, fast fall ASAP
-Comment: This feels pretty solid. It's not as easy as method 4, but I imagine it could be useful for getting in on a projectile user

 

[gridatttack]

Hmmm this is nice.

I wonder why I didnt see this technique before.

Though it seems its only useful one time; when activating an art.

Will test out against opponents to see how it goes.

 

[Natch]

Hey, has anyone done any testing with the Decisive Monado Arts(Custom Neutral B number 2), 'cause the timing would be different. Could someone get a guide out about that?

 

[Masonomace]

Hey, has anyone done any testing with the Decisive Monado Arts(Custom Neutral B number 2), 'cause the timing would be different. Could someone get a guide out about that?

Ye, the Decisive Arts once cycled to takes ~1.5 seconds to activate. I don't know about making a guide for the DArts' timing, but as far as the timing goes, think of @ erico9001 's examples to help you out. Here's his quoted post below:

For MALLC, I recommend setting either the right or left bumper (Pro), or the z button (GC), to jump. Since you don't need to move your thumb between X/Y and B, it is much easier to do the inputs for MALLC. For that reason, tap jumping is okay for this, but tap jumping slows down your horizontal air speed.

Anyways... new methods for Decisive MALLC!:

Method 4)
-How to do: Short hop, ASAP afterwards hit B, ASAP afterwards aerial jump, no fast fall.
-Comment: I like this one a lot. It's easy, and very similar in feel to the short hop method used with regular monado arts. Requires less timing than method 1, but faster inputs (which is okay if you have a jump as a shoulder button).

Method 5)
-How to do: Full hop, ASAP afterwards hit B, ASAP afterwards aerial jump, fast fall ASAP
-Comment: This feels pretty solid. It's not as easy as method 4, but I imagine it could be useful for getting in on a projectile user

════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
I've been using a method similar to Erico's 5th Method but without the Doublejump & fastfalling. So as additional help for getting down the timing to MALLC Decisive Arts, try this:

Full Hop DMALLAC Method
-How to do:

1. While on the ground, cycle to whichever Decisive Art desired
2. After your Monado Art symbol appears, begin inputting a Full Hop but don't fast fall
3. Immediately after inputting Full Hop, input up to two aerials (or Airdodge), & either your first or second aerial will be MALLC'd

Examples for this method:
-FAir & NAir / FAir / BAir / UAir 1st hit / DAir 1st hit / Airdodge
-BAir & freefall / Airdodge
-UAir & freefall (This can become a jump canceled Up smash if you try to input Full Hop UAir too quickly)
-DAir & freefall
-Airdodge & NAir / FAir / BAir / Airdodge

Note: If you decide to input UAir or DAir as your second input & as your landing aerial with the intention of hitting them, cycle to the Decisive Art but immediately Full Hop after you've cycled to your respected DArt & choose between FAir or Airdodge as your 1st airborne option out of Full Hop. After that, depending on your UAir / DAir connecting one or both hits directly or on their shield will vary if fast falling is needed or not.

Disclaimer: Any aerial move that hits the opponent or their shield delays the activation. This is also true for when attacks hit you while you're already cycled to an Art desired. This is why UAir & DAir are harder to MALLC than NAir FAir BAir or Airdodge.

EDIT:

I just figured out more inputs we can perform within the 1.5 second window DMArts activate & still DALLC with a Short Hopped aerial to finish:

1. While grounded, cycle to Decisive Art desired
2. Input any of these:
   -Perfect Pivot
   -Spotdodge
   -Back Roll
   -Forward Roll
   -DTilt
   -FTilt (If you plan to MALLC after using FTilt, you must fast fall your Short Hop + aerial or airdodge)
   -UTilt (If you plan to MALLC after using UTilt, you must fast fall your Short Hop + aerial or airdodge)
   -Pivot Grab
   -Insert more options
3. Short Hop & input any aerial or airdodge without fast falling unless you input FTilt or UTilt

 

[notyourparadigm]

How many of you think MALLC is an important tool for use in Decisive Arts? The lack of ability to cancel and change your Arts really means that you would have to carefully script the point of Art activation do gain anything off the single MALLC that you get, which seems like a pretty hefty compromise if you have to wait 5 or 6 seconds before activating the Art you need.

The main reason I am asking is the fact that I'm only just beginning to get a innate 'feeling' for the timing of MALLC in normal or Hyper Arts, and I think that trying to learn the timings for the Decisive Arts would only muddle up my timing for the other two (where I could actually see myself utilizing MALLC). Are any of you putting in the practice to master the Decisive Arts timing? If so, are you able to keep the two different timings separate in your head?

 

[Masonomace]

How many of you think MALLC is an important tool for use in Decisive Arts? The lack of ability to cancel and change your Arts really means that you would have to carefully script the point of Art activation do gain anything off the single MALLC that you get, which seems like a pretty hefty compromise if you have to wait 5 or 6 seconds before activating the Art you need.

The main reason I am asking is the fact that I'm only just beginning to get a innate 'feeling' for the timing of MALLC in normal or Hyper Arts, and I think that trying to learn the timings for the Decisive Arts would only muddle up my timing for the other two (where I could actually see myself utilizing MALLC). Are any of you putting in the practice to master the Decisive Arts timing? If so, are you able to keep the two different timings separate in your head?

I think DMALLC'ing is a very less-than-important tool. Just from going by math alone, you'd have to cycle to the Decisive Art you want & then wait 1.5 seconds for it to activate itself. If we assume DJump is what you want, then it'd take 1.5 seconds for you not to mess up a DMALLC & now you're in that DArt for 20 seconds. After 20 seconds passes by, you either go to a new DArt in less than a second to wait another 1.5 seconds, or wait for 5 seconds of cooldown & repeat that process. Anyway ya look at the math, DMALLC'ing with a different DArt each time will only occur almost 3 times per minute without considering if Shulk loses a stock & refreshing all of his cooldowns.

Although, putting the practice into learning the Decisive Arts timing can reward since there's more you can do with 1.5 seconds. Instead of cycling an Art & rushing to MALLC asap within .75 of a second, one with the Decisive Arts could cycle to an Art following a DTilt, or an option in order to position yourself & then followed by a Short Hopped aerial fast fallen for approaching or spacing. You can also ledgetrump with more time to spare for Decisive's activation window because regular / Hyper Monado Arts required you to cycle to an Art, immediately edgehog, & drop away from the ledge holding towards that direction so that the Monado Art activation made Shulk perform a turnaround into ledgetrumping FAir. This is possible btw, but it's a tight window of opportunity to perform under, & just one mistake in the process ruins it since it has to be done quickly & perfectly.

As for the different timings memorized, I just use methods to help me with that. At least Hyper Arts don't have a different activation timing. If they did, then we'd just take the time to learn all 3 MALLC timings.

 

[notyourparadigm]

I think DMALLC'ing is a very less-than-important tool. Just from going by math alone, you'd have to cycle to the Decisive Art you want & then wait 1.5 seconds for it to activate itself. If we assume DJump is what you want, then it'd take 1.5 seconds for you not to mess up a DMALLC & now you're in that DArt for 20 seconds. After 20 seconds passes by, you either go to a new DArt in less than a second to wait another 1.5 seconds, or wait for 5 seconds of cooldown & repeat that process. Anyway ya look at the math, DMALLC'ing with a different DArt each time will only occur almost 3 times per minute without considering if Shulk loses a stock & refreshing all of his cooldowns.

Agreed. And even then, the three times per minute might not even be appropriate times to DMALLC, such as if your opponent is off-stage and you should be edgeguarding with DJump or whatnot. Although I know I shouldn't sleep on an option that will come up during a match, I don't think I should be planning the entire match around them when they are such infrequent occurrences.

Although, putting the practice into learning the Decisive Arts timing can reward since there's more you can do with 1.5 seconds. Instead of cycling an Art & rushing to MALLC asap within .75 of a second, one with the Decisive Arts could cycle to an Art following a DTilt, or an option in order to position yourself & then followed by a Short Hopped aerial fast fallen for approaching or spacing. You can also ledgetrump with more time to spare for Decisive's activation window because regular / Hyper Monado Arts required you to cycle to an Art, immediately edgehog, & drop away from the ledge holding towards that direction so that the Monado Art activation made Shulk perform a turnaround into ledgetrumping FAir. This is possible btw, but it's a tight window of opportunity to perform under, & just one mistake in the process ruins it since it has to be done quickly & perfectly.

I would offer one counter-arguement to this, though-- because there is more to do with 1.5 seconds, there is far much more than can go wrong in that window of time. At least with the 0.75 seconds, it's a very linear process (activate art -> aerial attack / air dodge -> profit) and the possibility for something to go wrong is mainly dictated by your own mistakes (i.e. performing the cancel wrong or mis-spacing your attack so you are vulnerable before the MALLC can save you). But the 1.5 seconds means that your DMALLC can not only be fumbled by your own mistakes, but by any sort of interruption by your opponent. The window for success isn't a very forgiving one, so it wouldn't take much for your opponent to throw off the entire process.

As for the different timings memorized, I just use methods to help me with that. At least Hyper Arts don't have a different activation timing. If they did, then we'd just take the time to learn all 3 MALLC timings.

I suppose this might be what I end up doing-- I was hoping to practice enough so that MALLC and HMALLC timings are just second-nature for me, and so I don't have to waste time during a match thinking about when in my jump I have to activate, or if I have to fast fall and the like. But for DMALLC, since we established that the appropriate opportunities to do so will appear far less frequently, it doesn't seem quite as crippling to have to quickly consider the method of execution, flow-chat style.

 

[Berserker.]

Open question: You guys fine if I put universal techs in this thread. Like foxtrotting or perfect pivoting? Or we keep this thread exclusive to Shulk's advanced techniques?

We're missing out on DACIT if we keep it exclusive though

 

[Masonomace]

Open question: You guys fine if I put universal techs in this thread. Like foxtrotting or perfect pivoting? Or we keep this thread exclusive to Shulk's advanced techniques?

We're missing out on DACIT if we keep it exclusive though

It could be a Shulk-exclusive AT thread, but I would be fine with universal techs since Monado Arts change their appearances / applications.

 

[Berserker.]

Made a lot of changes with the OP thanks to @ Masonomace

 

[Masonomace]

Made a lot of changes with the OP thanks to @ Masonomace

Speaking of, I'll attempt to finish this.

 

[Berserker.]

WOW. Alright, this is criminal. We forgot to add perfect pivoting to the OP. Then again, the applications are unknown yet. It's still pure theory.

The following post will be copy-pasted to other threads:

If I were you guys, I'd REALLY start on implementing perfect pivoting even though fundamentals/reads are superior and better. It won't hurt to at least implement this in Shulk's meta especially since he's all about spacing. This will solve a lot of problems regarding f-tilt whiffing

 

[erico9001]

Why don't we call Monado Art Dash Cancel instead Monado Art Run Cancel? It's more accurate, since the dash is just the initial portion of the run. And... the awkward abbreviation of MADC turns into MARC. MADC just reminds me of Mad Cow disease, and is annoying to pronounce. marc sounds awesome . I'm marcing.

 

[Masonomace]

So guys, we should definitely add in B-Reversing somewhere in there, mentioning both the grounded & airborne applications.

I've been fooling around with burning an Art activation just to practice B-Reversing on the ground. It's possible to B-Reverse the Monado Art activation while on the ground during a dash or a run animation, & the results can be glorious except for the Speed Art's activation. Speed Arts increasing traction makes the B-Reverse travel less distance. Even the Shield Arts travel farther than Speed!

 

[Berserker.]

I've yet to consistently use MADC and B-reversing in friendlies and tourneys. It keeps slipping off my mind for some reason.

I see potential in b-reversing though

 

[Masonomace]

Educational Shulk videos

Distant Kingdom's Air Slash Out Of Shield (ASOOS)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkF5FoUuE-4

TheHopefulHero's MArt Air Dodge Lag Cancel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkyirLuV5wA

Distant Kingdom's In-Depth Shulk 101 Guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9tfusGfnLo

DEHF's Anti-Edgegrabbing Attacks with Shulk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3NClPEOulQ

PizzaWenisaur & DanGR's MArts Landing Cancel
http://youtu.be/gjubeRA0pdI

Opana's MArts Turn Around & MArts Dash Canceling
http://youtu.be/HwHQRYZKD5U

Claxus' B-Reversed MArts
http://youtu.be/aBnt31PNrs4

I took that quoted portion from the Metagame thread's OP & brought it here to fill in what we don't have for this thread's OP, like Air Slash out of shield or DEHF's Anti-edgegrabbing attacks for the F-smash down angled applications.

 

[WindHero]

Hey guys, played with this a little more while I had the time today, and found a couple cool/creative uses for this which I explain here. It boils down to:

- using monado art cancels to more safely get onstage from the ledge using two options
- using MALLC from varying spots and with varying platform layouts
- possible uses for MALLC and platform play
- Specifics on a few stages and how MALLC works on them

When I found out I could monado art cancel from an edgegrab, I was ecstatic. We've gotta take Shulk to the next level, guys!

This seems really interesting, especially the part about climbing edges using MAC. I'll have to experiment with that a bit...

On another note, I just might try to make a text version of erico9001's video on MALLC, since I often forget a what point to stop switching arts, and my internet cap makes video watching/scanning a bit pricey. Although, perhaps that's already back earlier in the thread...

 

[Berserker.]

I'll add in b-reversing. @ Masonomace , if you can, can you make the descriptions for it?

I messed around with wave bouncing. I found some nifty applications with it. It's definitely hard to execute at first. To be honest, I'm still having a hard time executing the input

So far, all I've noticed is the edgeguarding potential of wave bouncing and and its function as a potential mix up for Shulk's offense/mid-range pressure. Like, if you run towards the opponent, prepare an art, then jump/SH forward, you wave bounce then perform a b-air with the momentum from wave bouncing. You'll land at a safe distance while the hitbox comes out at a point wherein it will probably land on the opponent or his/her/its shield while you perform b-air. If they try to recover low, you can hop and wave bounce f-air and catch them while they try to recover by sliding against the stage with their recovery/jump. To be honest, b-reversing is more practical in this situation

Yeah, that's about it. Hard to use. Really situational. This is actually mostly theorizing that I have yet to apply in practice. I've only dabbled with this tech in training mode. So yeah

 

[erico9001]

Alright, so... I found a new tech! Jump even higher with Monado Jump. Obvious height difference with hyper jump, but still noticeable with regular jump. It builds off of the Monado Art Deactivation Buffering tech I found in January.

No idea what to call this yet...

Here's how to do it. Buffer the deactivation of monado jump or hyper jump into a jump. In the video, I like to do this out of shield, but it can be done with any animation. You'll notice you'll jump with the height and fall speed of regular monado jump. Now, this time, almost immediately after you jump, use an aerial or air dodge. This will cancel the gravity and fall speed which has carried from monado jump, allowing your jump to go higher. Though, make sure that you do not do it too fast, or else you will buffer your aerial or air dodge from the jump squat, and the deactivation of monado jump will not take place.

Additionally, you can use it with your double jump instead. While in Monado Jump, do a rising Fair or Air dodge, and buffer your art deactivation off of those animations. So... press B 3 times at the way end of your Fair or Air Dodge, then double jump and very shortly afterwards use an aerial. You can go really high from this. You can also use the animation from an edge jump.

Uses:
-Step 1) Jump really high
-Step 2) ???
-Step 3) Profit!
-Really high up Uairs/Fairs/Air Slashes
-Probably edgeguarding
-Probably recovery
-Possibly combos
-Getting to higher platforms with just a FH (like, hyper jump can get to the second highest part of the tree on duck hunt, while it usually can't land on any of them)
-Stalling?
-Surprise
-Entertainment
-reaching people who jump really high like yoshi

Finally, you technically can perform the technique without buffering. You press b 2 times before jumping, and 1 time after jumping, before using your aerial or air jump. This is harder, though. I would recommend throwing up your shield and jumping out of it. Who knows, it might be faster to not buffer though.

A good stage to test this out on is Duck Hunt. See what part of the tree you can land on!

EDIT: I will be able to post a video of it tomorrow. Again, you jump higher than monado jump does.
You can also do it pretty easily with platforms.

 

[Masonomace]

Alright, so... I found a new tech! Jump even higher with Monado Jump. Obvious height difference with hyper jump, but still noticeable with regular jump. It builds off of the Monado Art Deactivation Buffering tech I found in January.

No idea what to call this yet...

Here's how to do it. Buffer the deactivation of monado jump or hyper jump into a jump. In the video, I like to do this out of shield, but it can be done with any animation. You'll notice you'll jump with the height and fall speed of regular monado jump. Now, this time, almost immediately after you jump, use an aerial or air dodge. This will cancel the gravity and fall speed which has carried from monado jump, allowing your jump to go higher. Though, make sure that you do not do it too fast, or else you will buffer your aerial or air dodge from the jump squat, and the deactivation of monado jump will not take place.

Additionally, you can use it with your double jump instead. While in Monado Jump, do a rising Fair or Air dodge, and buffer your art deactivation off of those animations. So... press B 3 times at the way end of your Fair or Air Dodge, then double jump and very shortly afterwards use an aerial. You can go really high from this. You can also use the animation from an edge jump.

Uses:
-Step 1) Jump really high
-Step 2) ???
-Step 3) Profit!
-Really high up Uairs/Fairs/Air Slashes
-Probably edgeguarding
-Probably recovery
-Possibly combos
-Getting to higher platforms with just a FH (like, hyper jump can get to the second highest part of the tree on duck hunt, while it usually can't land on any of them)
-Stalling?
-Surprise
-Entertainment
-reaching people who jump really high like yoshi

Finally, you technically can perform the technique without buffering. You press b 2 times before jumping, and 1 time after jumping, before using your aerial or air jump. This is harder, though. I would recommend throwing up your shield and jumping out of it. Who knows, it might be faster to not buffer though.

A good stage to test this out on is Duck Hunt. See what part of the tree you can land on!

This is great in practice so far. After our call ended, I went ahead & re-tested the jump heights for Jump art by using this buffered art deactivation tech & inputted said aerial / airdodge & this is what I came up with:

Jump art's current platform heights from floor level:
Short Hop = 5
Full Hop = 10
Doublejump = 10

Buffered Jump art's deactivation platform heights from floor level:
Short Hop = 6
Full Hop = 12
Doublejump = 12

I didn't even think to try this after ledgejumping but HOLY CRAP, the jump height you can reach from Hyper Jump's buffered deactivation is unreal. From hanging on the ledge, performing a HJump ledgejump on its own makes Shulk land on the 8th platform, but after the ledgejump, we can input a buffered HJump deactivation into a doublejump aerial + airdodge which makes Shulk land on the 22nd, 23rd, or even the 24th platform. . .WHAT!? But yeah, these results vary with how quickly you time buffering the art deactivation after the ledgejump > doublejump > aerial / airdodge. The highest I was able to get was the 24th platform. . . JEEZ, doing a normal doublejump after HJump Shulk's ledgejump makes him land on the 18th platform, so the fact that Shulk just straight up leaped 4 - 6 platforms higher is a huge difference compared to the Jump art's numbers above.

Again, this is great. HJump's buffered deactivation jump height pretty much reminds me of custom equipment jump height & that's nuts. Idk what to name it either since we're Buffering the Art Deactivation for only Jump & HJump, & it requires performing an aerial or airdodge after the jump option in order to negate the fall speed / gravity. I suppose what I would call it is. . . hmmm Idk.

I have little words about Hyper Jump.because it's so majestic watching yourself jump that high. . . Hyper Jump's custom name by itself just convinced me that the word "Hyper" is further beyond what I imagined, because now with this tech, negating the hyper levels of fall speed & gravity truly shows how hyper Shulk's jump height would be without them. Jeez this is eye-opening.

 

[erico9001]

This is great in practice so far. After our call ended, I went ahead & re-tested the jump heights for Jump art by using this buffered art deactivation tech & inputted said aerial / airdodge & this is what I came up with:

Jump art's current platform heights from floor level:
Short Hop = 5
Full Hop = 10
Doublejump = 10

Buffered Jump art's deactivation platform heights from floor level:
Short Hop = 6
Full Hop = 12
Doublejump = 12

I didn't even think to try this after ledgejumping but HOLY CRAP, the jump height you can reach from Hyper Jump's buffered deactivation is unreal. From hanging on the ledge, performing a HJump ledgejump on its own makes Shulk land on the 8th platform, but after the ledgejump, we can input a buffered HJump deactivation into a doublejump aerial + airdodge which makes Shulk land on the 22nd, 23rd, or even the 24th platform. . .WHAT!? But yeah, these results vary with how quickly you time buffering the art deactivation after the ledgejump > doublejump > aerial / airdodge. The highest I was able to get was the 24th platform. . . JEEZ, doing a normal doublejump after HJump Shulk's ledgejump makes him land on the 18th platform, so the fact that Shulk just straight up leaped 4 - 6 platforms higher is a huge difference compared to the Jump art's numbers above.

Again, this is great. HJump's buffered deactivation jump height pretty much reminds me of custom equipment jump height & that's nuts. Idk what to name it either since we're Buffering the Art Deactivation for only Jump & HJump, & it requires performing an aerial or airdodge after the jump option in order to negate the fall speed / gravity. I suppose what I would call it is. . . hmmm Idk.

I have little words about Hyper Jump.because it's so majestic watching yourself jump that high. . . Hyper Jump's custom name by itself just convinced me that the word "Hyper" is further beyond what I imagined, because now with this tech, negating the hyper levels of fall speed & gravity truly shows how hyper Shulk's jump height would be without them. Jeez this is eye-opening.

Agreed. It reminds me of equipment too

And to everyone, here's the video for it!

 

[Berserker.]

Going to update the thread soon with MABC (Monado art buffered cancelling)

I updated, like, one part of the thread (finally put some applications on MADC) but this thread will be updated in a sec

 

[Berserker.]

THREAD BUMP (Sort of)

Updated with MABC. This thread is open to suggestions and such

 

[Masonomace]

Would adding in different Monado Art Turn Around (MATA. . .lol idk about that acronym) hold any merit?

If you try to B-Reverse the art activation & mess up, you either somehow get the harder-to-do MAWB (Monado Art Wavebounce?) or you just turn around to face the opposite direction. Actually, I think MATA is worthy to be added in because now I remember & think back on those times I'd jump in the air with an art cycled to while I'm facing toward my opponent, but then flick my joystick to the opposite direction to face away & input B-air instead of them thinking we'll F-air. The opposite can also happen, where if we were initially facing backwards & cycled an art, MATA to face toward them would bring out F-air which is faster & more surprising than B-air.

EDIT:
A tricky & sorta-flashy thing: Dash / Run forward, art cylced to, quickly aerial pivot aka RAR, turn around art activation, aerial.

 

[Berserker.]

Would adding in different Monado Art Turn Around (MATA. . .lol idk about that acronym) hold any merit?

If you try to B-Reverse the art activation & mess up, you either somehow get the harder-to-do MAWB (Monado Art Wavebounce?) or you just turn around to face the opposite direction. Actually, I think MATA is worthy to be added in because now I remember & think back on those times I'd jump in the air with an art cycled to while I'm facing toward my opponent, but then flick my joystick to the opposite direction to face away & input B-air instead of them thinking we'll F-air. The opposite can also happen, where if we were initially facing backwards & cycled an art, MATA to face toward them would bring out F-air which is faster & more surprising than B-air.

EDIT:
A tricky & sorta-flashy thing: Dash / Run forward, art cylced to, quickly aerial pivot aka RAR, turn around art activation, aerial.

I don't know man. It's still b-reversing in the end but I'll add it if everyone's all for it :D

Edit: Okay. Thought over it for maybe a minute or 40 seconds. I'll add it, but if anyone has any objections, feel free to speak

 

[notyourparadigm]

I don't know man. It's still b-reversing in the end but I'll add it if everyone's all for it :D

Edit: Okay. Thought over it for maybe a minute or 40 seconds. I'll add it, but if anyone has any objections, feel free to speak

I'd argue that it's definitely worth including-- it's a Shulk-specific application of b-reversing, since no other character can use their aerials while b-reversing. I remember this game back in June where Gnes had a stylish (but unfortunately unproductive) b-reverse bair in an attempt to stage spike. It looks clean and possibly one of the best ways for Shulk to try and get the offstage bair stage spike.

 

[TheHopefulHero]

Would adding in different Monado Art Turn Around (MATA. . .lol idk about that acronym) hold any merit?

I always called it Turn Strike since Shulk literally turns around and can strike the foe with an aerial (And it's so far Shulk exclusive so we really can call it a Talent Art for more Xenoblade reference). In all seriousness, I do agree with NYP about it's potential. I think the movement itself is worth investigating, because we can do this while fast-falling and the movement can throw people off. Just thought I throws some ideas out there.

 

[Berserker.]

Okay. I added it to the OP and made it "B-reversing" to keep things simple

Application is still a work in progress

 

[Masonomace]

Alright. . . I've finally worked out the patience & interest to lab out B-Reversing, & now I love it. This changes my ground game to the max. Right now, MALLC I feel is quite a dominant Shulk tech to implement as time passes, but in the end I liked B-Reversing with other characters over Shulk due to the delayed timing of the art activation. However, that's no more.

B-Reversing
How to perform it:

Grounded
In order to do a grounded B-reverse, you must be using a mixture of cycling arts while moving. If you're trying to learn how to B-Reverse on the ground, start with just cycling to Jump or whichever art & then start dashing to running in a direction. If you're holding your joystick towards a direction while dashing or running & you press the B button, you misinput it as Back Slash.

(Cycling arts while walking, dashing, running, or slow running to the ) Tap your joystick to the after the art activation
(Cycling arts while walking, dashing, running, or slow running to the ) Tap your joystick to the after the art activation

Misinput / Troubleshooting
If you end up getting a dash turn animation, it means you're tapping your joystick to the opposite direction too soon. You have to be patient & let the art activate first. The art flashing brightly for a brief moment is a good indicator to help your timing.

Moves that can be used while the slide from the grounded B-Reverse happens:

• Short Hopping or Full Hopping, Up tilt, uncharged Forward smash, uncharged or charging Up smash, uncharged or charging Down smash, Standing Grab, Shielding, Spot Dodge, Forward Roll, Back Roll, and Back Slash

Moves that halt the slide from the grounded B-Reverse:

• Jab, Forward tilt, Down tilt, charging Forward smash, Dash Grab, Pivot Grab, Air Slash, and Vision

Knowing the different slide distances
How fast you're moving varies with how far you side from the grounded B-Reverse. So in one scenario, Shulk is walking, & the other scenario is Shulk dashing to running. In the walking scenario, Shulk B-Reversing Up tilt will slide about a third of the distance the other Shulk would travel when running. Likewise, a Shulk that is running & B-Reverses Up tilt will slide farther across the floor than a Shulk who's slow running.

What to gather from this
B-Reversed Up tilt is great. If you cycle to Speed & then B-Reverse Up tilt connecting the Blade sweetspot, you instantly create the Speed walking Up tilt juggling or Up airs scenario. B-Reversing any smash attack is super neat to try as for an example, you can cycle to Buster & at the last moment dash away from your current position near the ledge to make your opponent think you're giving them breathing room, then you B-Reverse Dsmash toward the ledge & semi-charge it to deal huge damage to them on-hit or on-shield which potentially breaks it. Above all, imho, the best rewarding option to perform with the grounded B-Reversed is standing grab. When you talk about Vanilla Shulk's grab choices no matter which one, they're all mediocre at best. However, combine a standing grab option with the grounded B-Reverse & the slide you gain from a running motion, you get grab range greater than Vanilla dash grab & arguably Vanilla pivot grab. Perhaps Speed Art B-Reversing grab isn't as effective as Jump Shield Buster or Smash, but still, it's much better than standing grab or dash grab by themselves.


Airborne
In order to B-reverse in the air, you must be using a mixture of cycling arts while drifting. If you're trying to learn how to B-Reverse in the air, start by dashing to running across the ground & jump into the air. After that, release your joystick letting it sit back to neutral & cycle to Jump art. If you kept holding your joystick toward a direction to drift in the air & then tried to press B, that inputs as a Back Slash which is an unfortunate event off-stage. "Not good!"
Also, if you're tumbling in the air, you cannot input a B-Reverse. So either use an aerial or airdodge to stop tumbling. If you don't want to use an aerial or airdodge, then using doublejump instantly removes the tumble state.

(Cycling arts while drifting to the ) Tap your joystick to the during the art activation
(Cycling arts while drifting to the ) Tap your joystick to the during the art activation

Misinput / Troubleshooting
If you end up getting a turnaround, it means you tapped or held your joystick to the opposite direction much too soon. Like I said for the grounded B-Reverse, just be patient & let the art activate. The art flashing beside Shulk's character portrait is a good indicator to use for timing it better.

About the airborne B-Reverse
When you B-Reverse your art activation in the air, you shift your movement from one direction to the opposite. The distance you travel in the air during the B-Reverse is the same for all five Monado arts. Yes you read right. Jump, Speed, & Shield all drift the same air speed during the whole duration Shulk is performing his unique pose for said art. It's when Shulk finishes performing the unique pose & returns the Monado on his back that the art's mobility start to take effect. However, this is only when you do not interrupt the unique pose Shulk makes for said art. You can instantly gain the art's drift speed when you interrupt the unique pose. To do this, you can use either Doublejump, Neutral air, Forward air, Back air, Up air, Down air, or Airdodge. On the other hand, using Back Slash Air Slash or Vision don't grant the art's drift speed because Back Slash does its own thing, but Air Slash does get the vertical boost from Jump or the horizontal drift speed increase from Speed & decrease from Shield respectively. Vision is kinda like Shulk performing a pose during an art activation because the art's drift speed & mobility only starts taking effect after Vision's endlag finishes & Shulk returns the Monado on his back.


Applications: Mixups become very interesting. Shulk is a very special character in that he's the only character in the game that can act with any of his moves immediately after B-Reversing from the ground or the air respectively. Most characters that B-Reverse their Neutral B must cancel their action by either shielding or pressing the grab button to revert some sort of charging animation. For Shulk though, If you're first cycling arts & then dashing to running or drifting toward a direction followed by ceasing art cycling, you can time the B-Reverse after seeing the art flash beside Shulk's character portrait near the damage meter. This results with a movement slide toward the opposite direction. The B-Reverse by itself looks neat plus if it's an airborne B-Reverse by itself you still have the intangibility frame window for defensive frame protection. but add in a move & you create an option that no other character can perform with the sacrifice of losing the intangibility window. Some options include:

• Walking > Art B-Reverse Jab
• Dashing > Art B-Reverse Dtilt
• Running > Art B-Reverse Dsmash
• Jumping & drifting > Art B-Reverse Nair
• Jumping & drifting > Art B-Reverse Airdodge
• Art B-Reverse > Wavebounced Back Slash

Like I've said, Art B-Reversing Monado Speed on the ground results with a slide distance less than the other four Monado arts. Even when you Art B-Reverse Monado Speed in the air & land on the ground, you travel less distance sliding upon landing because the art increases friction / traction the moment Speed activates. Surprisingly, Monado Jump & Monado Shield B-Reversed across the floor travel about the same distance, which is also true for Monado Buster & Monado Smash. Sorry Speed art.

And again, I seriously see potential in B-Reversed grab. According to Shulk's frame data, standing grab going by numbers is the safest option between standing grab, dash grab, & pivot grab, but standing grab by itself is the worst when it comes to an actual match when you want to go for a grab. So to make standing grab better, Art B-Reversing grab improves the standing grab option immensely. This effective option is worsened by the Speed art unfortunately, but eh still fine.

EDIT: By the way I can upload a video of these said options for show. It's better than one .GIF of a B-Reverse Bair doing nothing, but it's fine for now as a visual.

 

[ApathySSB]

Some people already know this. This isn't new and I didn't invent it, I don't see a whole lotta shulks do this so it's worth the info, but it's definitely an interesting followup and it's hardly advanced but I'm not sure where else to put it since it doesn't belong in the combos thread.

If you anticipate your opponent grabbing a ledge when offstage, you can pop smash art, trump them, and airslash. Stuff kills at like 60-80%, earlier on certain matchups. While my math might be wrong, it might not be guaranteed, but there are certain characters that have limited options for dealing with it.

Works for the other arts as well, save some issues with jump.

Video for it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-CVe0cRaFk

 

[Jerm]

Some people already know this. This isn't new and I didn't invent it, I don't see a whole lotta shulks do this so it's worth the info, but it's definitely an interesting followup and it's hardly advanced but I'm not sure where else to put it since it doesn't belong in the combos thread.

If you anticipate your opponent grabbing a ledge when offstage, you can pop smash art, trump them, and airslash. Stuff kills at like 60-80%, earlier on certain matchups. While my math might be wrong, it might not be guaranteed, but there are certain characters that have limited options for dealing with it.

Works for the other arts as well, save some issues with jump.

Video for it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-CVe0cRaFk

Tested this lo0o0o0ong ago with my bro. He was easily able to avoid it by airdoding and/ or DI'ing away. Gonna try it out again maybe for a lil.

 

[ApathySSB]

Tested this lo0o0o0ong ago with my bro. He was easily able to avoid it by airdoding and/ or DI'ing away. Gonna try it out again maybe for a lil.

Yeah it's definitely not guaranteed, several frames (6~8 unless my math is wrong) to airdodge out of it.

Considering the limited options offstage from a trump though, could be useful.


Pretty satisfying getting a kill at like 70 with it.

 

[Masonomace]

It varies with every character too. As an example, a character like Fox having a very high ledge-trump arch won't be hit easily by Air Slash trump.

 

[ApathySSB]

Might need to make a follow up video then. I didn't account for varying character arcs. Appreciate the criticisms, though.

 

[TDF_Lewis]

Hi there everyone, I've been a long time reader but have yet to make a post.

I wanted to share the information I found while testing Shulk's ability to Glide Toss, now I know it's not exactly applicable since he cannot generate his own projectile, but it's a relatively useful tech to have in the pool right?

Now as far as I'm aware, it is performed through canceling a dash throw with a smash/attack, as a result you not only receive a boost but you also have a (relatively) lag free dash throw which can follow up into anything (my personal favourite being utilt):

(Dashing, holding item, c-stick set to tilt)
- >+

As for inputs, the way I do it is by setting the c-stick to tilts, and flicking that forward for the dash throw, whilst inputting an up smash with the left control stick. It may be placebo but I also roll the c-stick so it ends up 90 degrees to the right. The timing is tight especially in speed mode, which happens to be the art which benefits the least from it.

I tested whether it would work in every Monado Art (see attached video), but I also tested with every legal item in the game, which I can list next.

Spoiler: Characters - Items

Bowser Jr - Mechakoopa
Diddy Kong - Peanut, Banana peel
Link / Toon Link - Bombs (Toon Link's having the most longevity and thus being more useful)
Sheik - Grenade (Must be attacked in the middle of her Grenade throwing animation to drop it)
Robin - Tomes
R.O.B - Gyro
Pacman - All neutral special items (except I couldn't get it working with the bell)
Mega Man - Buzz Saw

The potential I see this having is mainly in movement options, I main Shulk mostly, but I started out with Link and still use him as a pocket for matchups I dislike and I use Glide Tossing (aka bombsliding) as a quick movement option and as a way to be offensive whilst placing pressure with lag free bomb throws. Now of course I know Shulk and Link are different characters and I'm terrified of embarrassing myself here, but I'm excited about the find and wish to share it.