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I have so much trouble versus a campy olimar.

Megavitamins

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
2,418
Location
Flaming Europe.
Alright, I've lost like 3 sets in past tourneys because of campy olimars that lirerally do nothing but pikmin toss, f-smash, and shield grab. Approaches are just shut down thanks to Olimars Over powered range, and eventually I'm forced to approach him because sadly, Marth lacks a projectile. Usually I just go Wolf, but if they have double blinds I usually just go Marth, and I lose the first match. I guess another problem is I get frusturated ALOT when I play a camper, and I lose my ability to think and to read him. Any tips on the actual match up, and to stay calm?
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
Hmm, I do good against some Olimar players, and bad against others. If Shield Grabbing is really popular than try to approach from behind. Retreating Fairs won't work, so do a delayed (activating each part slowly Dancing Blade with the down ending might shield poke him). He's good, but weaker than Marth in the air, so if you get a chance toss him. Olimars are heavy on the shield, and very light, so if manage to mindgame him by chipping at his shield lots of futile Fairs, and then land a solid shield breaker when he anticipates a Fair can break it if you're patient. On the light Olimar, that may as well be a stock when followed up by the Fsmash tipper fully charged. Also, you can usually run through Pikman toss, just watch where the Purples fall into the line up. Don't occupy yourself with getting them off, you need that time to be offensive.

If he starts spamming Pikman, and you need time to think, just hold your ground and bat them away with a jab. Though, it's like I said before, running through the stream, avoiding getting knocked back by a purple, and poking through the shield with a slow down Dancing Blade works well. Remember, to shield poke with Dancing Blade, IT MUST be slow. Dancing Blade doesn't Shield Poke all by itself, but if you delay it, the shield's natural depreciation will help the shield poke, and this will lead to the last hit of Dancing Blade hitting your opponent (works on all characters, not just Olimar). This won't work if your opponent perfect shields the beginning, or dodges some of it, but I manage to get it off fairly often.

I'm currently experimenting with RARing but using Fair with Marth, to allow Marth to land behind his opponent, but facing them, while using Fair. While this doesn't cause tip, it might provide excellent placement and work very well providing mind games.

Also, little tricks like air stalling with the first slice of Dancing Blade while pinging the opponent's shield, then punishing the attempted grab with the first slice of the Nair, and then chaining that to Dtilt, etc, also might help a little.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know. I've fought some of the best Olimars on the East Coast (won some lost some) and I don't find them impossible to beat. You can't be defensive in the conventional way, but you can't be over aggressive or impatient.
 

The Marth

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
153
Location
CO
I have that problem too...
what about spammy lucarios? (heres looking at you yellow)
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
I've found vs olimar that you need to rely on jumping around and using your aerials. His grab range is huge, so.. jump. If he tries to fight you in the air as well then take advantage and land an fsmash/fair.
 

Megavitamins

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
2,418
Location
Flaming Europe.
Thanks a bunch pierece :). The problem with dancing blade however, if I do it slow theres more opportunity to get punished from shield, (broken grab range). I'll definetly try it however and all these other tricks next time I play a campy olimar. So far, my main strategy is to work the whole match into gimping them by fair spamming off the stage. The main problem is I just cant think when I get mad / frusturated...
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
I have that problem too...
what about spammy lucarios? (heres looking at you yellow)
lol, I used to have a huge problem vs Lucario players too but not anymore.

First, I pinpointed the problem. Lucario's Roll Dodge is so retardedly fast, it punishes Marth's approaches. I stopped Fairing, and relied more on walking approaches. So often do most Lucario's roll dodge behind me, I just start throwing backwards Fsmashs and Dancing Blades, and usually nail them. The best part about it is, so few players do this, that Lucarios are ingrained in the habit of Roll dodging, especially when cornered at an edge, and will fall for this over and over, because the dodge is reflexive. If they are really fond of double team, you can punish it with a backwards Fsmash that WON'T hit, and then throw an accurate one.

GOOD players will pick up on this, and stop roll dodging, but that's fine. Once Lucario stops roll dodging, Marth should be able to slice him into pieces by conventional means.

That's my personal Lucario strat, and it works for me very well. It's taking me from consistent losses, to very consistent wins, so give it a shot.

EDIT: I also forgot. A really good way to condition your opponent into Roll Dodging behind you it to start spamming Dtilt at them. After the first two times, you'll see how fast your opponent reacts, and how they react (most people I fight will Roll Dodge behind me after the second Dtilt, and the third one will miss). By using this, they think that Roll Dodging is an excellent way to punish my Dtilt. Instead, now that I've conditioned them to reacting in a "proven" way to a certain situation, I use the AWESOME IASA the Dtilt provides to own them with a reverse Fsmash. It's hilarious, and it makes you look really pro. Give it a try, it works against more characters than just Lucario (although don't try it against Olimar, because he can just grab you)
 

Ulevo

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
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4,496
Location
Unlimited Blade Works
Rush him. Standard A, FTilt, and Fair his pikmin. Stay Aerial so he doesn't grab you. As soon as you get in close, stay on him. Use tactics to pop him into the air, such as throws, and knock him off the stage. Through the air, he really can't compete with you, so that's where you have to take him.
 

Pierce7d

Wise Hermit
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
6,289
Location
Teaneck, North Bergen County, NJ, USA
3DS FC
1993-9028-0439
Thanks a bunch pierece :). The problem with dancing blade however, if I do it slow theres more opportunity to get punished from shield, (broken grab range). I'll definetly try it however and all these other tricks next time I play a campy olimar. So far, my main strategy is to work the whole match into gimping them by fair spamming off the stage. The main problem is I just cant think when I get mad / frusturated...
After some practice, you'll nail the timing down better so you're not punished for this. Full speed with the first two slices will probably cause your opponent to hold their shield, and then slow down on the third and fourth is generally okay. And letting your opponent wear down their own shield by a SH to retreating backward double jump is a unforeseen mindgame very often, if you linger in the offensive zone for a long time.
 

Hype

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Messages
1,688
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Mississauga, Ontario
OMG I hate olimar, the pikmin wont stop humping me. I have same problem as you megavitamins. I usually do the same as you and counterpick wolf. the worst thing that can happen in that match IMO is when he hits you with a white pikmin and grabs you. the white pikmin does like 50 damage while you stuck in his grab.

Hes an even harder match when I play Toon Link. Hes probebly toonlink hardest OR second hardest match, after meta knight. I get owned so badly in this match I probebly can't help you with it but i can recomend some links to help with frustration.

Sorry, my search isn't working and after looking for like 10 mins, I can find the perticular thread. It had to do with breathing techniques (a componant of the thread).
 
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