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I hate Game and Watch!!!
- Thread starter TyQ
- Start date
but spam needles uh he has some good like spaming attacks that like people tend to walk into to it
uh just camp him out and when he runs in thats when you dodge and punish. or just look fro an oppening dont try to go in to agressive cus he has good moves to get people away like fast smashes
uh just camp him out and when he runs in thats when you dodge and punish. or just look fro an oppening dont try to go in to agressive cus he has good moves to get people away like fast smashes
Thats probably my biggest problem. I am sometimes TOO agressive. I guess I should tone it down for G&W.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Needles
Chain
Dacus
He cannot bucket the needles and his short hop keeps him in needle range so he's either force to approach with many dashes into shield or full hops into ....whatever.
The chain get's the job done for your defense. Like Meta Knight Game and watch can't get around the chain if approaching the front or top. It even beat the turtle. Game and watch only options is to use his neutral B which has enough start up and cool down that allows you to pull the chain back and dodge away before it hits or go over you.
Dacus for the kills, game and watches jump a lot and with your constant needle spamming will be jumping even more then normal so it's even easier to land a tipper, which kills below 90%.
If you happen to hit game and watch with something other then needles, chain, and dacus and are put into a scenario where gimping may be possible then odds are they will approach from below the lip of the stage into a sweetspot up B. Sheiks only way to punish this is either running off the stage into a vanish right next to the ledge or roll off stage into vanish(does the same thing but it's easier). You would think that doing this would be hard to time but the vanish has a sexy hitbox so it last for a while also if you do **** up and do it too late thus getting hit by game and watches up B it wont kill you but if you land the vanish on game and watch it's a free 15% and might even caused a ledge spike.
Other then that learn to tech the down throw, don't DI into game and watch neutral aerial and for the name of everything holy never charge in. Gay and watch will **** you, and **** you hard if you do.
Oh and ....Welcome to the sheik boards. I'm Tristan, the resident Zelda hating, dash attack canceling(dacus) loving, sheik extremist who is so bias in his view that would put sheik above falco on the tier list....Most likely without Zelda.
Chain
Dacus
He cannot bucket the needles and his short hop keeps him in needle range so he's either force to approach with many dashes into shield or full hops into ....whatever.
The chain get's the job done for your defense. Like Meta Knight Game and watch can't get around the chain if approaching the front or top. It even beat the turtle. Game and watch only options is to use his neutral B which has enough start up and cool down that allows you to pull the chain back and dodge away before it hits or go over you.
Dacus for the kills, game and watches jump a lot and with your constant needle spamming will be jumping even more then normal so it's even easier to land a tipper, which kills below 90%.
If you happen to hit game and watch with something other then needles, chain, and dacus and are put into a scenario where gimping may be possible then odds are they will approach from below the lip of the stage into a sweetspot up B. Sheiks only way to punish this is either running off the stage into a vanish right next to the ledge or roll off stage into vanish(does the same thing but it's easier). You would think that doing this would be hard to time but the vanish has a sexy hitbox so it last for a while also if you do **** up and do it too late thus getting hit by game and watches up B it wont kill you but if you land the vanish on game and watch it's a free 15% and might even caused a ledge spike.
Other then that learn to tech the down throw, don't DI into game and watch neutral aerial and for the name of everything holy never charge in. Gay and watch will **** you, and **** you hard if you do.
Oh and ....Welcome to the sheik boards. I'm Tristan, the resident Zelda hating, dash attack canceling(dacus) loving, sheik extremist who is so bias in his view that would put sheik above falco on the tier list....Most likely without Zelda.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
needles, as everyone said, are most important to this matchup. when he is spacing you, take time to charge
when you are in a pinch at close range (which you will find yourself in a lot), use a lot of jabs and try to combo with ftilt->nair or ftilt->utilt, meaning fast stuff which he can't react to
g&w has the superior range, but sheik's dashing shield can also be used for spacing so he can mis-space a bair or something
just to make the most out of your punishment, dont just shield grab him out of shield, but double jab to grab (double jab almost always leads to grab with sheik, remember that)
remember 5th or 6th (i forgot lmao) hit of g&w's bair, when it hits the ground, is when you should counter
if you are a crazy manly man, you can counter with jab between the last and the 2nd to the last hit
when you are in a pinch at close range (which you will find yourself in a lot), use a lot of jabs and try to combo with ftilt->nair or ftilt->utilt, meaning fast stuff which he can't react to
g&w has the superior range, but sheik's dashing shield can also be used for spacing so he can mis-space a bair or something
just to make the most out of your punishment, dont just shield grab him out of shield, but double jab to grab (double jab almost always leads to grab with sheik, remember that)
remember 5th or 6th (i forgot lmao) hit of g&w's bair, when it hits the ground, is when you should counter
if you are a crazy manly man, you can counter with jab between the last and the 2nd to the last hit
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
Tech his throws.
Use needles.
DACUS.
B!tchslap.
EDGEGUARD.
Just thought I'd be a little more useful and elaborate.
I face GWs regularly, but their individual playstyles are very different so you need to learn to adapt. These are basic things that should apply to all GWs.
Teching Throws
At high percentages and when near the edge a grab > Dsmash can cause you to fly too far away from the edge to recover. Stay out of grab range. Come in for f-tilts, f-airs and smash attacks. If you manage to get grabbed and you're in danger of being unable to recover, you can time the tether to grab the ledge while you're still flying away. (Note: I've done this a few times, but it never really became something I found important to practice)
Needles
Because you can't stay too close, full needle storms are a good way to attack safely. During the brief period after the storm, run in but not completely. GW will see you running before he can do something and get nervous. At this point he will either attack (probably jab or F-smash) OR block. Stop near him and wait for his attack. If he blocks, sheild-pressure or grab. If he attacks, wait for the opportunity and counter.
From my experience he has trouble being attacked from above. His u-tilt can be irritating but U-smash is fairly useless. Try needle storming from above and land near him. Afterwards, same rules apply.
DACUS
DACUS is a quick approach that GW generally has trouble dealing with iirc. DO NOT make this your only approach. Predictability is the worst way to go, especially with a DACUS which leaves you very open. Sometimes a running U-smash works just as well.
(I'm not sure if GRUSTing works on him. Try and see.)
B!tchslap
Most of Sheik's aerials have good priority and are very strong. They also set up edge-guarding well. Most notably: n-air, f-air, b-air, u-air. NEVER use d-air. That move has almost NO good properties.
u-air not so much, but the sweetspot can kill GW if you're up high.
Otherwise, SHFF the other aerials. b-air can chain quite well at low percentages on stage, and f-air chains well at high percentages off stage (watch gimpyfish vids)
At low percentages, f-air sourspots > f-tilt locks > u-tilt possibly to another f-air works well on GW.
Edge-guarding
Sheik's God-given miracle. 3 aerials to ****, 2 specials to recover, 1 way to play. Okay, perhaps I exaggerate, but with proper timing using the tether and attacks, Sheik is beast.
I've pretty much said all I need to say already, but basically:
On stage, ALWAYS pressure your opponent to the edge. Doesn't matter which one. Rack up damage with needles, f-tilt locks, b-airs and F-smash. Get them to the ledge using throws, f-airs/n-airs, D-smash. Once of the stage anticipate their recovery (because that's ALL they can do) and punish them using f-air, aerial needles, chain edgeguarding, tether and (sometimes) Vanish Glide.
Oh, right. Gimping.
Timing is especially important here. GW's recovery has two weakspots. Before the launch and after the launch.
Before
You need to drop off the ledge and follow up your attacks for this to work. ALWAYS follow up attacks unless you see a threat or your feel you missed an opportunity. If he's somewhat vertically below the stage, drop down and b-air him under. If you turned around or you've been hanging on the ledge, just f-air. If he's TOO low, you can just time tether to get your invincibility frames when he's near the ledge.
After
This can be troublesome. It depends on where he started the launch.
If he was low:
1. Drop down and grab the ledge/Tether.
2. Prepare the chain lock. Depending on the stage this can be really hard for him to overcome, but he seems to get invincibility frames at the beginning.
3. Short Vanish Glides. If he's at high percentages you can cause him to stage spike. Make sure you hold UP and towards the stage, NOT just towards it or you could get gimped. Timing is hard.
4. Catch him before he grabs with a b-air. This will somewhat stagespike and start the cycle again.
I haven't tried it yet but you could possibly get behind him and use needles. This might be more appropriate for before the launch.
Alright, hope this helps.
Use needles.
DACUS.
B!tchslap.
EDGEGUARD.
Just thought I'd be a little more useful and elaborate.
I face GWs regularly, but their individual playstyles are very different so you need to learn to adapt. These are basic things that should apply to all GWs.
Teching Throws
At high percentages and when near the edge a grab > Dsmash can cause you to fly too far away from the edge to recover. Stay out of grab range. Come in for f-tilts, f-airs and smash attacks. If you manage to get grabbed and you're in danger of being unable to recover, you can time the tether to grab the ledge while you're still flying away. (Note: I've done this a few times, but it never really became something I found important to practice)
Needles
Because you can't stay too close, full needle storms are a good way to attack safely. During the brief period after the storm, run in but not completely. GW will see you running before he can do something and get nervous. At this point he will either attack (probably jab or F-smash) OR block. Stop near him and wait for his attack. If he blocks, sheild-pressure or grab. If he attacks, wait for the opportunity and counter.
From my experience he has trouble being attacked from above. His u-tilt can be irritating but U-smash is fairly useless. Try needle storming from above and land near him. Afterwards, same rules apply.
DACUS
DACUS is a quick approach that GW generally has trouble dealing with iirc. DO NOT make this your only approach. Predictability is the worst way to go, especially with a DACUS which leaves you very open. Sometimes a running U-smash works just as well.
(I'm not sure if GRUSTing works on him. Try and see.)
B!tchslap
Most of Sheik's aerials have good priority and are very strong. They also set up edge-guarding well. Most notably: n-air, f-air, b-air, u-air. NEVER use d-air. That move has almost NO good properties.
u-air not so much, but the sweetspot can kill GW if you're up high.
Otherwise, SHFF the other aerials. b-air can chain quite well at low percentages on stage, and f-air chains well at high percentages off stage (watch gimpyfish vids)
At low percentages, f-air sourspots > f-tilt locks > u-tilt possibly to another f-air works well on GW.
Edge-guarding
Sheik's God-given miracle. 3 aerials to ****, 2 specials to recover, 1 way to play. Okay, perhaps I exaggerate, but with proper timing using the tether and attacks, Sheik is beast.
I've pretty much said all I need to say already, but basically:
On stage, ALWAYS pressure your opponent to the edge. Doesn't matter which one. Rack up damage with needles, f-tilt locks, b-airs and F-smash. Get them to the ledge using throws, f-airs/n-airs, D-smash. Once of the stage anticipate their recovery (because that's ALL they can do) and punish them using f-air, aerial needles, chain edgeguarding, tether and (sometimes) Vanish Glide.
Oh, right. Gimping.
Timing is especially important here. GW's recovery has two weakspots. Before the launch and after the launch.
Before
You need to drop off the ledge and follow up your attacks for this to work. ALWAYS follow up attacks unless you see a threat or your feel you missed an opportunity. If he's somewhat vertically below the stage, drop down and b-air him under. If you turned around or you've been hanging on the ledge, just f-air. If he's TOO low, you can just time tether to get your invincibility frames when he's near the ledge.
After
This can be troublesome. It depends on where he started the launch.
If he was low:
1. Drop down and grab the ledge/Tether.
2. Prepare the chain lock. Depending on the stage this can be really hard for him to overcome, but he seems to get invincibility frames at the beginning.
3. Short Vanish Glides. If he's at high percentages you can cause him to stage spike. Make sure you hold UP and towards the stage, NOT just towards it or you could get gimped. Timing is hard.
4. Catch him before he grabs with a b-air. This will somewhat stagespike and start the cycle again.
I haven't tried it yet but you could possibly get behind him and use needles. This might be more appropriate for before the launch.
Alright, hope this helps.
Bestiarius
Smash Ace
EVERYONE DOES!!!!!!!!!!!
But, seriously, he's not that bad. Sheik is a specialist at chaining attacks and racking damage. In close, jab and chain. Down smash is amazing against him. Don't risk needles because of his bucket, except in the air. Once his damage gets high, switch to Zelda and KO him. Zelda has insanely spammable smashes, so just use those to kill hi when he's at high percentages.
But, seriously, he's not that bad. Sheik is a specialist at chaining attacks and racking damage. In close, jab and chain. Down smash is amazing against him. Don't risk needles because of his bucket, except in the air. Once his damage gets high, switch to Zelda and KO him. Zelda has insanely spammable smashes, so just use those to kill hi when he's at high percentages.
Is this supposed to mean something?
ankokuuuuuuuuu
Flamingo
Smash Lord
G&W is teh who*re to gimp... meh. One good thing though is that he is the 2nd lightest character in the game. So CP BF and go for the tipper Usmash haha.
I have seen some of your game play and......................wow. You can play much faster, and generally better than what I can do. I guess I have alot to learn about how to play Sheik.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Last time I saw choknater plays faster and is generally better then me overall. In fact my "fast" play is poorly based upon Choknater style.
U_U I just wish he had some recent videos up because what he said about game and watch was helpful. I really want to jab a game and watch out of a turtle just to see if it's possible, which it most likely is since chok said it.
edit: in a serious tone.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
F-tilt to N-air is a really great option for racking up damage and creating space you can also throw needles afterwards if you desire
choknater
Smash Obsessed
My sheik has greatly evolved. I have stopped rushing in, but if one was to watch me, I bet I'd still be called "aggressive."
I roll around shooting needles, forcing people to come close. Very basic stuff. But I don't wait for them to come SUPER close for me to approach... maybe a 1/4 smashville distance. That's when I run in and Rock/Paper/Scissors pressure my opponents. Sheik needs those risks in order to win. Whether it's a dash attack, a defensive RAR bair, a RAR fair crossup, a bair crossup, a grab, or more needles... I have to use Sheik's mid-range mixup game to win. From there, it's a matter of working in ftilts and double jab -> grab and jab/double jab mixups. If you play your cards right (and guess your opponent's defenses correctly) you can rack up to 80 damage in one rushdown.
Anyway... on topic.
To SinkingHigher: You don't really need to edge guard G&W. The best thing you can do is jump and shoot fully charged needles because he generally recovers low. He can recover high too, G&W probably has the best aerial game IMO so he's safe doing that too. In the words of TKD, "You don't need gimping to win." And I'm sure he meant edge guarding in general. Against G&W, I'd advise staying on the stage and responding to however he recovers. I like throwing out a fair in case of the ever-popular ledge jump, and then punishing him if he comes back on the stage in any other way.
If he ledge camps once or twice, I respond by running away and charging needles lol.
I roll around shooting needles, forcing people to come close. Very basic stuff. But I don't wait for them to come SUPER close for me to approach... maybe a 1/4 smashville distance. That's when I run in and Rock/Paper/Scissors pressure my opponents. Sheik needs those risks in order to win. Whether it's a dash attack, a defensive RAR bair, a RAR fair crossup, a bair crossup, a grab, or more needles... I have to use Sheik's mid-range mixup game to win. From there, it's a matter of working in ftilts and double jab -> grab and jab/double jab mixups. If you play your cards right (and guess your opponent's defenses correctly) you can rack up to 80 damage in one rushdown.
Anyway... on topic.
To SinkingHigher: You don't really need to edge guard G&W. The best thing you can do is jump and shoot fully charged needles because he generally recovers low. He can recover high too, G&W probably has the best aerial game IMO so he's safe doing that too. In the words of TKD, "You don't need gimping to win." And I'm sure he meant edge guarding in general. Against G&W, I'd advise staying on the stage and responding to however he recovers. I like throwing out a fair in case of the ever-popular ledge jump, and then punishing him if he comes back on the stage in any other way.
If he ledge camps once or twice, I respond by running away and charging needles lol.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 10,478
I prefer using Sheik (over Zelda) simply because G&W cannot absorb needles. It's a fairly decent matchup.
Needles are a godsend for Sheik, it prevents G&W from just walling you with bair like he can do to some other characters. Like it was mentioned before, you can SH a chain to halt an approach from G&W. I don't really even attempt to go offstage in this matchup, although I will grab the ledge to force him to land on the stage.
Rawr_
Smash Apprentice
I just camp like a b*tch against GnW... Throw some needles until he approaches, grab to punish almost everything I can (especially dair lol). It looks extremely dumb, but seems to be fairly effective. Run away, throw needles, repeat until he gets close, throw him the hell away, moar needles. In some matches I had to start alternating throws because my bthrow was getting stale X_X
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
An active and intelligent thread...in mAI SH31k B0rdz?!
I feel like I'd just be repeating other people by posting general advice but here's a few unmentioned things.
-I read somewhere that Shiek has a guaranteed air release to DACUS, can someone confirm?
-G&W, the same as Sonic and Snake, when grabbed in the middle of recovery and simply let go, cannot do anything. Unfortunately it's alot harder with G&W then Snake because of the speed, but if the opportunity ever presents itself then go for it.
-The only time's where you should go aerial in this matchup is when you're looking for a quick intercept, which Shiek can take advantage of even against G&W because of her very fast attack speed. Otherwise you don't go aerial, because you'll just get straight *****.
- Close range, abuse jab (and all jab mixups) and F Tilt, for everything else you abuse needles. Chain for defense, spaced B Air and Vanish for edgeguard.
I feel like I'd just be repeating other people by posting general advice but here's a few unmentioned things.
-I read somewhere that Shiek has a guaranteed air release to DACUS, can someone confirm?
-G&W, the same as Sonic and Snake, when grabbed in the middle of recovery and simply let go, cannot do anything. Unfortunately it's alot harder with G&W then Snake because of the speed, but if the opportunity ever presents itself then go for it.
-The only time's where you should go aerial in this matchup is when you're looking for a quick intercept, which Shiek can take advantage of even against G&W because of her very fast attack speed. Otherwise you don't go aerial, because you'll just get straight *****.
- Close range, abuse jab (and all jab mixups) and F Tilt, for everything else you abuse needles. Chain for defense, spaced B Air and Vanish for edgeguard.
M@v
Subarashii!
as stated, needles are your friends. Spam gw like crazy to get him to approach. Chain is actually useful at times here too.