I get destroyed by jiggs and DDD

[napZzz]

I get to face some pretty good jiggs and DDD players often, and when I'm ike I get completely ****ed over. All it takes is for them to get me off stage and its over. DDD's bair can easily gimp my recovery, even If I try to attack him out of it (doesnt work) or air dodge. He can just do it again and float back. He can chain grab me off stage easily too just to have an even easier time doing so. Jiggly puff in the right hands is deadly and can juggle me off stage easily! Any tips on these match ups?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

DDD is Ike's 2nd hardest match up IMO (probably because thats what fishkeeper timmy said when he mained Ike) so you might continue to keep getting *****. all I can say is try to dodge his attack and punish if you can get him to use his up b to recover the match is yours since you can just charge a U smash and kill him maybe even an Fsmash.

as for jigs I haven't really faced a good one so I can't give much advice on it but Jab cancels don't work because of how floaty she is. I think she even dodges the second jab of a AAA so jab to grab probably doesn't work as much either.

maybe when shes juggling you in the Air you can try for an Nair since her aerials actually have a good bit of knockback it might give you time before she trys her next one an Nair starts up pretty fast. The good thing against her is you can kill her with like 4 attacks at 85%. Utilt Uair Usmash and something else all kill her between 80 and 85%. if you can land a Uair while shes air born then you can kill her even sooner.

 

[Black Dragon]

Yeah, once you're off the stage, you may as well kiss your *** goodbye when fighting a good DDD. once you're that far out there that QD is your only option he'll just gimp you with his Bair all day long. Best advice I can give is don't get knocked too far from the ledge that Aether won't be able to help you.

 

[__V]

Jiggly gets destroyed by A-A-A and Dair.

 

[fire_wulf]

Hey NaPPy,

The SD crew will make the Minnesota tourney on August 16th. We can talk about Ike and try to face R1ngo's DDD. The Bair on that thing is crazy... but he doesn't use it alot. He prefers to chain grab.

One thing i can tell you... If it looks like you are about to get screwed over by Jiggs or DDD's Bairs... DI away and try to get a counter or Aether off. If you are already off the stage..... alls i can say is try to take them down with you.

 

[Ussi]

against jiggs, she will do a hit and run tactic usually. you must learn to counter rollout right, but it sucks cause sometimes rollout goes right THRU me @_@ then hits me in my after lag in counter. Be careful since she can change directions THREE times with rollout out to fake you. Rollout and rest are her two kill moves. Watch out for dair to rest, if you get daired, shield quickly and hope she won't rest you or you shield it on time. If she misses, free fully charged forward smash.

But yea, Jiggs is a match of patience. You have to ground stalk her and then strike with jab or utilt. Utilt is good since it'll block any frontal assault on you. If you can get a forward smash and she's 40%, she's dead. Otherwise she's dying by 80% by you utilt, uair, and usmash.

Now if she goes above you, aether her, and then when she excepts aether, wait for the dodge, then Uair her out of her dodge. Then keep mixing it up between the two. Jigg's is very afraid of Ike because all his moves damage a lot and all his moves kill. But most moves you use here are your aerials and utilt and jab and the usmash. Anything else, jiggs usually isn't there.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

Against Jiggs:
Play defensively... Jiggs will jump at you whenever it will have an opportunity and will strike hard... As much as you can, don't use any very laggy move or you'll be seeing an aerial into your face... Space yourself and grab it when the opportunity arise...

Against DDD:
Play the range poking game... Keep poking at it you'll do decent... Quick Draw outwards if you need to...

 

[MysticKenji]

If Jiggly uses Rollout, use QD.
It'll either tie, or connect.

 

[forky]

If you are losing to jiggs you need to play a lot smarter (he is just outplaying you) Ike has a MASSIVE upper hand on jiggs, considering Jiggs is at fatal % at 55 from U-Tilt.. F-tilt, Usmash ...


With D3, a good option is to spam aether while he is CG'ing you. The game here is exchange not win. If he's on the back foot ..i.e not CG'ing at that point in time, you shouldn't be having any real issues as every move you have outranges and outprioritizes him (EXCEPT JAB, stop relying on jab, same as against MK, don't jab!)

 

[payasofobia]

have you tried fastfalling to evade DDD's bair?

 

[Jeepy Sol]

If you are losing to jiggs you need to play a lot smarter (he is just outplaying you) Ike has a MASSIVE upper hand on jiggs, considering Jiggs is at fatal % at 55 from U-Tilt.. F-tilt, Usmash ...

Actually, Ike is one of Jiggly's easiest match-ups. Honestly, all she needs to do is pursue him off the stage and he's done. Ike is without a doubt one of the easiest characters to KO in this way. Saying Ike has a "MASSIVE" upper hand on Jiggs is exaggerating. Jiggs has great aerial menuverability, and very quick aerials, whereas Ike...doesn't (B-air aside). So, Jiggs>>>Ike when it comes to air combat. Of course, like you said, Jiggs can get KO'd quite easily by Ike (I don't think the fifties is correct, though), but the same can be said for Ike. Ike has to watch for d-air to rest starting at the late 70's, since rest will KO Ike at ~77%.

Speaking as a Jiggs main (well, secondary), and as someone who has hardly played Ike, I think your best bet would be to try and stay on solid ground as much as possible. Like I said, Jiggs does much better in the air than Ike does. However, Ikes ground game is far better than Jiggly's. In fact, Jiggly's ground game is quite abysmal. Abuse it.

(Also, there was some talk of Rollout, and honestly, a good Jiggz won't even bother with that move. There is far too much risk.)

 

[forky]

Actually, Ike is one of Jiggly's easiest match-ups. Honestly, all she needs to do is pursue him off the stage and he's done. Ike is without a doubt one of the easiest characters to KO in this way. Saying Ike has a "MASSIVE" upper hand on Jiggs is exaggerating. Jiggs has great aerial menuverability, and very quick aerials, whereas Ike...doesn't (B-air aside). So, Jiggs>>>Ike when it comes to air combat. Of course, like you said, Jiggs can get KO'd quite easily by Ike (I don't think the fifties is correct, though), but the same can be said for Ike. Ike has to watch for d-air to rest starting at the late 70's, since rest will KO Ike at ~77%.

Speaking as a Jiggs main (well, secondary), and as someone who has hardly played Ike, I think your best bet would be to try and stay on solid ground as much as possible. Like I said, Jiggs does much better in the air than Ike does. However, Ikes ground game is far better than Jiggly's. In fact, Jiggly's ground game is quite abysmal. Abuse it.

(Also, there was some talk of Rollout, and honestly, a good Jiggz won't even bother with that move. There is far too much risk.)

And yes, 55% > Onwards most of Ike's tilts kill. A tip hit from F-tilt will kill you at 30%, yet alone 50. You need to check your numbers

... Despite that fact that Ike has about 2 metres of sword between him and jiggs... and super armor on his recovery. If jiggs follows you out, it's not hard to dodge > reverse aether. (Which if Jiggs dodges will die)

How do you plan to aeriel through Forward or Nairs? Your aeriel manouverability is also slower than ike's momentum. So if Ike aggressively Fairs into you, and you try DI out of the way you will get hit, it would require a dodge to avoid.

... Also ... can i just point out if you think that rollout is a huge risk, and resting on an Ike isn't you have some very contradictory ideas. You miss a rest at 0% on Ike and you will die.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I'm not sure Dair to rest actually works to often. one time I just stood around and let my friend try it and he kept missing he was able to pull it off before and eventually but he still missed a ton.



And people always say Ike is one of ___'s easiest match up's I don't really believe people when I see that phrase any more

edit: heres the kill precents with out DI, and your using the phrase DI wrong forky you can't DI out of an attack that hasn't hit you yet. besides that though I agree with you how would Jigs attack trough Fair's and Nairs?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180189

 

[forky]

Seriously the only reason it doesn't work is Ike's ability to punish. Everyone makes mistakes, for most of them you die. So beating Ike isnt so much a character matchup as a "don't **** up" matchup.

I 2 stocked a wario friend of mine, i regurarily beat him. One game he just played flawlessly, gave me no opening, and i got absolutely hammered, i wasn't able to trick him, or catch him out with mindgames, and he just walked on me. That's what it's about :D

 

[Jeepy Sol]

And yes, 55% > Onwards most of Ike's tilts kill. A tip hit from F-tilt will kill you at 30%, yet alone 50. You need to check your numbers

... Despite that fact that Ike has about 2 metres of sword between him and jiggs... and super armor on his recovery. If jiggs follows you out, it's not hard to dodge > reverse aether. (Which if Jiggs dodges will die)

How do you plan to aeriel through Forward or Nairs? Your aeriel manouverability is also slower than ike's momentum. So if Ike aggressively Fairs into you, and you try DI out of the way you will get hit, it would require a dodge to avoid.

... Also ... can i just point out if you think that rollout is a huge risk, and resting on an Ike isn't you have some very contradictory ideas. You miss a rest at 0% on Ike and you will die.

Perhaps you are right about the numbers. Heck, I've never actually checked out this boards. I'm speaking through experience, and I've never been KO'd at 30%. Also, 0% KO? lolwtf?!?

EDIT: F-tilt kills Jiggly at 83%.

You're speaking with a lot of bias, and maybe I am too. But honestly, it's so easy to KO Ike when you get him off the stage. Maybe he'll drag you down too (unlikely), but nonetheless, it's easy to KO him. It's not that hard to airdodge Ike's moves, since they are pretty easy to see coming. And how does Jiggs die if she dodges a reverse aether?

How do I plan to follow through f-airs/n-airs? Jiggly's aerials are much faster than Ike's. Not only that, pound has a **** load of priority, especially for how quick it is.

EDIT: ALSO, Jiggly can pull off two aerials in one short hop.

And just so you know. Rollout is a crap move. And d-air to rest is almost guarenteed to work, unless you are doing it wrong. It is very obvious you have no Jiggly experience. A halfway decent player can just jump/block it. >.>

I'm not sure Dair to rest actually works to often. one time I just stood around and let my friend try it and he kept missing he was able to pull it off before and eventually but he still missed a ton.



And people always say Ike is one of ___'s easiest match up's I don't really believe people when I see that phrase any more

He was doing it wrong. The trick is to FF near the end.

And people say that about Jiggly all the time too. I'm just trying to defend her, because although she is bad, she's not nearly as bad as a people think she is. They've just never fought a good one.

 

[forky]

Perhaps you are right about the numbers. Heck, I've never actually checked out this boards. I'm speaking through experience, and I've never been KO'd at 30%. Also, 0% KO? lolwtf?!?

EDIT: F-tilt kills Jiggly at 83%.

You're speaking with a lot of bias, and maybe I am too. But honestly, it's so easy to KO Ike when you get him off the stage. Maybe he'll drag you down too (unlikely), but nonetheless, it's easy to KO him. It's not that hard to airdodge Ike's moves, since they are pretty easy to see coming. And how does Jiggs die if she dodges a reverse aether?

How do I plan to follow through f-airs/n-airs? Jiggly's aerials are much faster than Ike's. Not only that, pound has a **** load of priority, especially for how quick it is.

EDIT: ALSO, Jiggly can pull off two aerials in one short hop.

And just so you know. Rollout is a crap move. And d-air to rest is almost guarenteed to work, unless you are doing it wrong. It is very obvious you have no Jiggly experience. A halfway decent player can just jump/block it. >.>




He was doing it wrong. The trick is to FF near the end.

And people say that about Jiggly all the time too. I'm just trying to defend her, because although she is bad, she's not nearly as bad as a people think she is. They've just never fought a good one.

It does kill at 83%. If you hit with the blade, it will kill upwards at like 90% if it hits with the hilt, and 30%ish if it tips. Ike can tip his Fmash fully charged on 0% will kill most characters.

He has three parts to his sword.

You won't die if you dodge a reverse aether, just neither will Ike. You can't hit him mid-aether as it's SA'd.

Also, pound doesn't outprioritize anything except jab (and even jabs third hit will out prioritize it) ..

I'm not that biased, i main Ike & MK. I don't think jiggs is **** either. But i'm used to play a metaknight (currently ranked 1 in australia) ... Youtube Fork vs Kulla if you are interested in seeing some games. And yeah, he rarely gimps me off the side. (He used to nearly every life, it's just a matter of learning the extent of how long you can stay out - and learn to use the little rise aether gives you (it rises Ike a tiny tiny bit above where his sword is thrown when he jumps up)

Jiggs just isn't great vs Ike. Comparitively, MK demolishes Ike.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Of course when you compare Jiggly to MK, she's terrible.

I definitely see your points, though. I will say, however, that Jiggly has more aerial control than MK. Not only that, she can pull off two aerials in one short hop. So, let's say a Jiggly f-airs an Ike off stage, it's not hard to connect another f-air, and intercept him when he tries to recover. This also makes it pretty easy to hit him before he can get a f-air/n-air in.

I've never played an Ike in a tourney with Jiggly, but a good friend of mine plays a lot of Ike, so I get a lot of practice versus him. I honestly feel it's not that hard to gimp Ike when he's off stage.

 

[forky]

Of course when you compare Jiggly to MK, she's terrible.

I definitely see your points, though. I will say, however, that Jiggly has more aerial control than MK. Not only that, she can pull off two aerials in one short hop. So, let's say a Jiggly f-airs an Ike off stage, it's not hard to connect another f-air, and intercept him when he tries to recover. This also makes it pretty easy to hit him before he can get a f-air/n-air in.

I've never played an Ike in a tourney with Jiggly, but a good friend of mine plays a lot of Ike, so I get a lot of practice versus him. I honestly feel it's not that hard to gimp Ike when he's off stage.

FTR: MK can also short hop 2 aeriels, either U or D air., nor does Jiggs have more aerial control than him

Well... we can't argue move by move. Just watch some of those games on Youtube there, MK puts far more pressure off the stage than jiggs can. I can get around it, you will DEFINATELY see 1-2 random Shloop ownages that MK does, but it's very rare these days they hit.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

Ok, but Jiggly can do two f-airs, b-airs, n-airs, and a mix of the three, all of which have more horizontal range than MK's u-air or d-air. And yes, Jiggly has more aerial maneuverability than MK. I'm not sure about this, but I think only Wario outdoes Jiggly there, and maybe Squirtle.

Also, a tipped f-tilt does not kill Jiggly at 30%, nor anywhere near that. And a charged/tipped f-smash does not kill her at 0%, or anywhere near that. Seriously, I think you are misjudging his power. Go in front of your Tv and test it for yourself.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Holy crap stop. Ike is not Marth if he tips his Fsmash it looses half of its power. on someone who it would normally kill at 50% will live trough one at 100%.

not only that but the only attack IIRC that has a hilt SS is D. tilt and even so its not much stronger than F. tilt it would probably kill her at like 78% or something like that.

 

[VersatileBJN]

once u camp hardbody puff is pretty easy. its just his insane DI that can get on your nerves.


Counter the **** out of rollout...they'll get the pitcher after a while.


DDD...best advice i could give is just space and be annoyingly patient. You're going to have be really good at reading block and sidestep patterns and habits to even stand a chance hear not to mention being very good at avoiding throws. Fade away fairs will help. Eruption on reckless Up B recoveries helps too. This is one of Ike's hardest fights. Top 3 along with Meta and possibly Falco.