The new air-dodging system and footstool jump mechanic gives you a lot more options as far as getting back unscathed. I've actually gone from intercepted to intercepter very quickly by footstool jumping an incoming edgeguard. The timing is hard, though, if you're really scared to get hit.
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I Edge Guard therefore I am?
- Thread starter beardog
- Start date
i rise
Smash Apprentice
i hate this statement yet i hear it all the time.
the game is meant to be played BOTH WAYS! if sakurai didn't want me to play with no items and on certain stages in melee there wouldn't be item or random stage switches. the game is meant for you to play how you enjoy it, that's how sakurai made it. you don't like items or random moving levels? they have something for you! free for alls and items on very high? you can do that too!
point is, the way to play the game is the way where you have the most fun.
on topic though, i edgeguard. like everyone else here as said, it takes a lot of skill and i think it adds more to the game. and if you think low percentage kills and spiking aren't fun, you've never pulled off a ken combo or a low percentage shine spike kill. it's one of the most fun things i could do in melee and i already feel the same about it in brawl.
hackerwacker
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2008
- Messages
- 2
exactly my point.
if people don't want to play with edge-guarding, why is that any different? why are they mocked and called a scrub?
Taymond
Smash Journeyman
You're more than welcome to in your own circle and with other willing participants. Any overzealous poster who says otherwise is a little too caught up in the argument to know what they're saying. This game, and any game, is about enjoyment, for each and every player.
For the same reasons though, that we should not try to change how you play in your own time, players who do not edgeguard have no business expecting the competitive community to neglect to edgeguard if the two communities should encounter each other. If you don't want to edgeguard, you don't have to. But you're perfectly capable of it, and so are we, so don't be surprised if others do.
There's no feasible argument that can be made towards abolishing edgeguarding. On a personal level, the choice not to do so is perfectly fine, but that choice in no way affects any other player. I encourage you to play exactly how you enjoy the game most, but I challenge you, and every player, to understand that everyone else is doing exactly the same thing, and no one has any right to tell another they're playing wrong.
On the competitive level, edgeguarding is practiced almost without exception, so should a player who chooses not to edgeguard choose also to play on this level, they've no right to complain if others do what they opt not to.
For the same reasons though, that we should not try to change how you play in your own time, players who do not edgeguard have no business expecting the competitive community to neglect to edgeguard if the two communities should encounter each other. If you don't want to edgeguard, you don't have to. But you're perfectly capable of it, and so are we, so don't be surprised if others do.
There's no feasible argument that can be made towards abolishing edgeguarding. On a personal level, the choice not to do so is perfectly fine, but that choice in no way affects any other player. I encourage you to play exactly how you enjoy the game most, but I challenge you, and every player, to understand that everyone else is doing exactly the same thing, and no one has any right to tell another they're playing wrong.
On the competitive level, edgeguarding is practiced almost without exception, so should a player who chooses not to edgeguard choose also to play on this level, they've no right to complain if others do what they opt not to.
As said numerous times before, edgeguarding is a part of the game, save Stamina mode. You die too fast in there for it to really matter. However, in "competitive" play, there's more than one answer.
I put competitive in quotes because there's more than just MLG-style tournaments. There's casual events between friends, block tournaments, all the way up to an MLG finals. In lower-level play, I doubt that it's REQUIRED, because of the general skill level. People aren't as well versed in defense, so a smash or a good air attack should do the trick. That's the way it always worked for me until ' decided to step up my game.
In larger, more important events, expect to see it every game, if not more. At a higher level of play, you DO need to push every little advantage. It'd be suicide not to. Unless, of course, you're going 2v1 against people who are scores of notches below you. You can afford to give them a little leeway. =^_^=
I put competitive in quotes because there's more than just MLG-style tournaments. There's casual events between friends, block tournaments, all the way up to an MLG finals. In lower-level play, I doubt that it's REQUIRED, because of the general skill level. People aren't as well versed in defense, so a smash or a good air attack should do the trick. That's the way it always worked for me until ' decided to step up my game.
In larger, more important events, expect to see it every game, if not more. At a higher level of play, you DO need to push every little advantage. It'd be suicide not to. Unless, of course, you're going 2v1 against people who are scores of notches below you. You can afford to give them a little leeway. =^_^=
Lovage 805
Smash Champion
By limiting yourself like this you're closing a huge venue of skill. Brawl even more than Melee, edgeguarding is skill, avoiding an edgeguard is skill and being unpredictable with both of those things is both based on skill. Why limit yourself so much? Really just for etiquette?
Vortok
Smash Journeyman
By not edgeguarding, you flat-out change the balance of the game. With no edgeguarding/edgehogging some characters are simply better. The obvious ones are Zamus, Olimar, and Ivysaur, though Captain Falcon and Ganondorf certainly qualify as well.
With those things in place, some characters are better (than in a no-edgeguarding/hogging game) BECAUSE they have more options to get back to the stage. Characters like Kirby, Pit, Jigglypuff, Dedede, Rob, and others.
If you prefer to not edgeguard (I know my friends and I didn't really understand the concept for awhile in 64... and for awhile after that we knew to spike, but still didn't edgeguard if the character couldn't spike) and find the game more fun that way, great. Smashers as a whole do edgeguard to some extent or another, and people pointing to the how to play video is also a good example.
Play how you want, but just know if you play outside your group of friends (not even in a tourney setting) others probably won't be playing by the same, self-imposed rules.
With those things in place, some characters are better (than in a no-edgeguarding/hogging game) BECAUSE they have more options to get back to the stage. Characters like Kirby, Pit, Jigglypuff, Dedede, Rob, and others.
If you prefer to not edgeguard (I know my friends and I didn't really understand the concept for awhile in 64... and for awhile after that we knew to spike, but still didn't edgeguard if the character couldn't spike) and find the game more fun that way, great. Smashers as a whole do edgeguard to some extent or another, and people pointing to the how to play video is also a good example.
Play how you want, but just know if you play outside your group of friends (not even in a tourney setting) others probably won't be playing by the same, self-imposed rules.
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
I love edgeguarding. It is fun. Learn the limitations of your character's recovery and their aerial attacks, and you can edgeguard too.
Feel free to play the way you want with your friends, but if you play with me and my friends, we will edgeguard you, like it or not.
Feel free to play the way you want with your friends, but if you play with me and my friends, we will edgeguard you, like it or not.
LuLLo
Smash Ace
Well edgeguarding is just a part of the game, it's just the way it is.
To people who let their opponents get back to the stage, I applaud you, it means you've got some sense of honor in you, and I find it cool of you guys to think that way.
What my friends and I DO have -as some sort of ''rule''- is that we don't Edge Hog, I too believe (and I'm the most competitive of my friends) that edgehogging is pretty lame, and yes I know it's a part of the game, but to characters who can't recover well and can't counter an edgehog (Captain Falcon) it's just pretty much broken to use it against them.
What I do use with characters is ledge-hop, d-air, one of my friends still thinks it's cheap, but I call that skill (they're so jealous
..), AND they can counter it by just doing up-B again, since it's a Meteor. Or I just go hanging on the edge, forcing them on the stage, then quickly ledgehop and Knee or Smash them again. (and they fall for it all the time, which is stupid since they know I don't edgehog 
...)
Anyways, you can play the game the way you like, but like many have said, don't expect other people to respect your rules, whenever you're going to a tournament or something, just use all the possibilities to win the match (but don't edgehog my C.Falcon, or else I'll pull out your plug and start kneeing you...).
To people who let their opponents get back to the stage, I applaud you, it means you've got some sense of honor in you, and I find it cool of you guys to think that way.
What my friends and I DO have -as some sort of ''rule''- is that we don't Edge Hog, I too believe (and I'm the most competitive of my friends) that edgehogging is pretty lame, and yes I know it's a part of the game, but to characters who can't recover well and can't counter an edgehog (Captain Falcon) it's just pretty much broken to use it against them.
What I do use with characters is ledge-hop, d-air, one of my friends still thinks it's cheap, but I call that skill (they're so jealous
..), AND they can counter it by just doing up-B again, since it's a Meteor. Or I just go hanging on the edge, forcing them on the stage, then quickly ledgehop and Knee or Smash them again. (and they fall for it all the time, which is stupid since they know I don't edgehog ...)Anyways, you can play the game the way you like, but like many have said, don't expect other people to respect your rules, whenever you're going to a tournament or something, just use all the possibilities to win the match (but don't edgehog my C.Falcon, or else I'll pull out your plug and start kneeing you...).
Mama
Smash Ace
As its been stated feel free to do so on your own time but you can't expect other people to. However it is for that reason why you should do what the competitive community does if you expect to compete. You have to keep up with whatever the competitive players do and understand that. Thats all. Edge guarding gives you an advantage. Competitive players play to win and it is for that reason they take this advantage. Its not about playing honorably or playing fair or what is or is not cheap. Its about winning and doing what it takes to win.
But, again, you do what is fun for you. We don't determine what you should find fun at all and you shouldn't let anyone take that away from you. But competitive players have fun playing in a competitive way so they play tournament style and enjoy it.
But, again, you do what is fun for you. We don't determine what you should find fun at all and you shouldn't let anyone take that away from you. But competitive players have fun playing in a competitive way so they play tournament style and enjoy it.
I'm glad we're starting to get some good discussion here.
I can see that an overwhelming majority of the posters here edgeguard and that's cool. I've since played some great edge guarding games and I see the argument regarding the skill involved. Fighting at the edge definitely makes the match more frenetic and I guess it just boils down personal preference. That being said, I would never expect someone to allow me to recover if that's not the way they played. I'm happy to play by any set of rules. Mid-field fighting just happens to be my favorite.
For fear of getting further flamed... I'm also one of those guys that plays item-less on fairly static levels to put the focus more on fighting between characters. Designer's intention or not, I just don't like pokeballs, smart bombs, and whatever those "assist" things are crowding up the stage.
I mean, it really boils down to the fact that there isn't one way to play the game and anything that is possible is equally viable. If you want to play with only heavy characters that's fine, but you can't expect to win competitive matches. Sorry to the millions of DeDeDe lovers; it's just an example.
My intention of the thread was not to convince people NOT to edge guard. I just wanted to see what people thought about it and I think I've got a good 50 answers.
I can see that an overwhelming majority of the posters here edgeguard and that's cool. I've since played some great edge guarding games and I see the argument regarding the skill involved. Fighting at the edge definitely makes the match more frenetic and I guess it just boils down personal preference. That being said, I would never expect someone to allow me to recover if that's not the way they played. I'm happy to play by any set of rules. Mid-field fighting just happens to be my favorite.
For fear of getting further flamed... I'm also one of those guys that plays item-less on fairly static levels to put the focus more on fighting between characters. Designer's intention or not, I just don't like pokeballs, smart bombs, and whatever those "assist" things are crowding up the stage.
I mean, it really boils down to the fact that there isn't one way to play the game and anything that is possible is equally viable. If you want to play with only heavy characters that's fine, but you can't expect to win competitive matches. Sorry to the millions of DeDeDe lovers; it's just an example.
My intention of the thread was not to convince people NOT to edge guard. I just wanted to see what people thought about it and I think I've got a good 50 answers.
BigRick
Smash Master
Try stamina mode.
-Aether
Smash Journeyman
People who ask these kind of questions really do not belong on smashboards.
This sounds extremely elitest, but this is a community for competative players. Anyone who asks this question really is in the wrong mind-set; the answer is obvious from the start. It was obvious for me when I was 7, and playing SSB64. You do not make artificial rules that nullify the point of the game.
I could care less about what you consider fun. It is clear to 99.9 percent of the community (both casual and competative) that this is just stupid.
This sounds extremely elitest, but this is a community for competative players. Anyone who asks this question really is in the wrong mind-set; the answer is obvious from the start. It was obvious for me when I was 7, and playing SSB64. You do not make artificial rules that nullify the point of the game.
I could care less about what you consider fun. It is clear to 99.9 percent of the community (both casual and competative) that this is just stupid.
BigRick
Smash Master
lol the new guy is actin tough eh
EDIT: and its not eliTEST, its eliTIST... also its not compeTATIVE, its compeTITIVE
shadydentist
Smash Lord
My intention of the thread was not to convince people NOT to edge guard. I just wanted to see what people thought about it and I think I've got a good 50 answers.
Who were you planning to convince? I'm not saying that it takes more skill to edgeguard, but when the entire point of the game is to keep your opponents off the edge, playing by some arbitrary 'honor rule' just because you think it might be more fun...
The game is what it is. We can turn off stages, we can turn off items, but techniques are almost never banned, because that would impinge upon the freedom of the player.
Who were you planning to convince? I'm not saying that it takes more skill to edgeguard, but when the entire point of the game is to keep your opponents off the edge, playing by some arbitrary 'honor rule' just because you think it might be more fun...
The game is what it is. We can turn off stages, we can turn off items, but techniques are almost never banned, because that would impinge upon the freedom of the player.
TechnoMonster
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 836
You underestimate the fierceness of edge guarding. It's fun, just try to get into it. With the new air dodge mechanics you have have great times off the edge gimping someone who tried to punk you. Surprisingly, the game gets pretty 1-dimensional without it; projectile spam gives a huge edge because you need 100%+ to KO, you can either KO right on time with a smash or wait till 180 to kill with a good tilt or something, but either way, it's just a matter of timing a good hit after building a lot of damage.
TheMuffinMan0311
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2007
- Messages
- 147
You mean like "Items ruin the game", or "Stages that move are too random", or "Final Smashes off because they're cheap and hinder skill"?
Subach
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2007
- Messages
- 129
Items and stages aren't the point of the game, sending your opponent off-screen is.
Uncle Fitzy
Smash Journeyman
Some characters have to edgeguard in order to score KOs.
Fast and Furious
Smash Rookie
I have to say... this thread completely changed my original views on edge guarding... Thank you. ^^
Haha, you almost made me lol at work. Nice.
Also, to the guy Rick was correcting, in the description of the forum I believe it says, "Discuss Brawl tactics, strategies, and other aspects relating directly to gameplay." I'm pretty sure, "Restricted to competition level middle schoolers," wasn't in there so take it easy and avoid the threads you don't agree with.
Chrono Centaur
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Messages
- 137
Finally, some people who can COMPREHEND that this isn't all about being the best guy at Smash, and that you can have more than one opinion about something
Some of the posters in this thread win, including beardog; others just...lol, suck. :<
Some of the posters in this thread win, including beardog; others just...lol, suck. :<
ICanBeYourHero
Smash Rookie
I would be nothing without edgeguarding.
Finally someone understands playing for the challenge. I applaud you sir. I don't mind the "edgeplay" from time to time, but i would much prefer an all out fight on solid ground.
That's not really a valid argument. It would also take more skill to beat some using only the A button, or without jumping, or without using smash attacks. But why would you want to limit yourself like that? Smash would be pretty boring if I had to wait for my opponent to land on safe ground again before I'm allowed to try to kill them again. I'd be spending more time waiting for them to recover than actually trying to KO them.