I was wondering about the benefits of using dash-wavedash (wavesurfing is another common name but I'll be using dash-wavedash or dwd for short) vs dash back would be for hurtbox manipulation with Falcon. For those who don't know, if you dash even for only one frame then jump you continue moving during your jumpsquat, the time you are preparing to jump off the ground. So, it has been stated and known by a decent amount of Falcon players that if you dwd back it allows you to avoid moves faster as when you start dashing your leg hurtbox stays back, allowing people to catch your ankles. This, along with the difficult of controlling pivot jumps or pivot jumps into analog/drift jumps seem to be large contributors to the theory that Hax's wavedash heavy neutral excels in micro-spacing situations, specifically in avoiding attacks. That is what is being tested.
First up, dash back
As you can see, for the first 4 frames of dash Falcon's ankle seems to remain glued to its initial position until frames 5 and 6 where he begins to pull it up to the rest of his hurtbox. This trend continues, although not as easily noticeable, for every stride Falcon makes but that isn't relevant to the specific topic at hand.
Next up, dwd back
Things to note:
Dwd carries with it a minimum commitment of 15 frames but it is very likely to be more than that as everything would have to be done frame perfectly (the wavedash motion itself is relatively easy to consistently get frame perfect but only dashing for a single frame and then acting out of the air dodge landing lag perfectly is appreciably difficult). Given the nature of Falcon movement and how much distance he can cover/threaten in 15 frames it is likely that dwd is far too laggy to used in any situation besides those where dash back simply cannot successfully avoid the attack. Finally, the small part of the hurtbox that lags behind is very low, only very low reaching hitboxes are likely to hit it.
One of the fastest and lowest hitting hitboxes that stuffs many of Falcon's attempts at approaching is Sheik's forward-tilt, which is frame 5. Let's see how it deals with dash back and DWD back if both are begun on the exact same frame (starting from the same spacing, roughly grab range)
Conclusion:
DWD allows one to generally avoid low hitting moves marginally better the first 3 frames of jumpsquat (frames 2-4 of the actual DWD) and past that point dash is more variable, fully controllable, and appears to be generally preferable.
This was a heck of a lot more work than just spending the 5 minutes testing it myself so if people enjoy this please let me know and I'll be much more likely to do it again.
First up, dash back
Please note that the last image is on the same frame Falcon would be airborne during a perfect dwd back. I included it because once one has reached that point in their dash the crux of the argument ceases to be valid as the leg hurtbox has been pulled up to the rest of the hurtbox.
As you can see, for the first 4 frames of dash Falcon's ankle seems to remain glued to its initial position until frames 5 and 6 where he begins to pull it up to the rest of his hurtbox. This trend continues, although not as easily noticeable, for every stride Falcon makes but that isn't relevant to the specific topic at hand.
Next up, dwd back
As you can see, Falcon is sliding every frame of his jumpsquat. He maintains a curiously similar, low profile as he does in his dash but he remains compact, with no back leg/foot hurtbox remaining out to potentially get caught by a very low hitbox.
Things to note:
Dwd carries with it a minimum commitment of 15 frames but it is very likely to be more than that as everything would have to be done frame perfectly (the wavedash motion itself is relatively easy to consistently get frame perfect but only dashing for a single frame and then acting out of the air dodge landing lag perfectly is appreciably difficult). Given the nature of Falcon movement and how much distance he can cover/threaten in 15 frames it is likely that dwd is far too laggy to used in any situation besides those where dash back simply cannot successfully avoid the attack. Finally, the small part of the hurtbox that lags behind is very low, only very low reaching hitboxes are likely to hit it.
One of the fastest and lowest hitting hitboxes that stuffs many of Falcon's attempts at approaching is Sheik's forward-tilt, which is frame 5. Let's see how it deals with dash back and DWD back if both are begun on the exact same frame (starting from the same spacing, roughly grab range)
As you can see, even on frame 5 dash back is already able to avoid a very important attack that DWD cannot.
Conclusion:
DWD allows one to generally avoid low hitting moves marginally better the first 3 frames of jumpsquat (frames 2-4 of the actual DWD) and past that point dash is more variable, fully controllable, and appears to be generally preferable.
This was a heck of a lot more work than just spending the 5 minutes testing it myself so if people enjoy this please let me know and I'll be much more likely to do it again.
Last edited:
