How you should choose your competitive main in Smash 4

[Funkermonster]

My personal problem with choosing a main is less because of the things the OP mentioned, but because of something else: In other fighting games, most players usually stick to no more than 2-4 mains as far as I know. Anymore would result in a deceleration of progress and less time to focus on each character at a time, underdeveloping your skill. You'd try to learn too many fighters at once, and end up not being great at most any of them. In the fighting game community, I am personally a person who sometimes gets bored using the same main over and over again (especially when facing the same opponent with the same matchup), and I like to have bonus side characters in casuals to keep myself entertained. So many of the chars in Smash 4 (both veterans and newcomers) are catching my eye and I wanna try out so many of them, but I'm having a difficult time planning on who I wish to stay with for the majority of my time with the game, and currently (played him at Best Buy demo and loved him) is the only one I've set in stone, and I worry that I'll struggle to find someone else to main a week after release. I have just barely started playing Smash competitively with other people in the past games, and Smash 4 is finally my chance to get a good headstart. But if I can't make up my mind fast enough, I'll probably get left behind in the dust again and get a slow start. And In their FGs, I don't really have a preference in playstyle, seeing as how I usually pick a team of characters who aren't very similar in gameplay at all and I don't limit myself to fighters from the same category; which aggravates my problem and makes it even HARDER to choose. Or maybe I do have a playstyle in character choice, but since I can't really identify similarities in the characters I use, I just don't know it. That is a possibility.

Some (and believe me when I say some) the following characters besides Greninja that I've got eyes on:

Spoiler

/ (People tell me that they are nearly identical besides the way their swords work, so I don't see why I can't use both)

There's also , the only character in the eshop demo that I truly enjoy playing, and I think I might use him in the final game since I get early practice with him. But I honestly don't enjoy him that much so I'm not sure. More likely though, I've only got to face dumb CPUs and don't face off against any humans, plus the demo feels so limited; and that might be the only reason I'm not excited about him. Smash Bros isn't much of a Single Palyer game in my eyes, and I'm kinda bored with the demo in general.

As you can see, I've got way too many things on my radar and there is no way I'll ever be able to use all of these characters competently at the same time, it'd be a terrible idea if I went down this path. So I've come with 2 ideas and I wanna see if anyone can help me out here and get feedback with my idea and tell me if I should do it:

Spoiler

Warning: Huge wall of Text I wrote

1. When I start the game I just stick with 2 characters at a time in training mode after I unlock em all, and then try 2 more once I get at least decent with my starting two (probably after a month or two). On Day 1 I'll choose Greninja and then one of the old ones above just to get with a familiar character, I roll a die to pick one by random. At most, I think I'll end up maining 2 newcomers and 2 veteran characters total once I do find them. If I wanna use someone else for fun, I may do it friendlies, semi-casual matches, or non-tournament or ranked matches only.

2 (I'm personally leaning more towards this idea). For me, I don't really worry about how a character looks or tier position (if only because the game's too young to even have tiers), I would pick them by how they feel. So just in case, I may use all of those listed characters I mentioned in training mode just to get a view of their movesets and attributes and get a small feel of them. Then I add some 3DS Friend codes to get people to play with (competitive matches only plz) and use all of those characters while playing them online in multiplayer matches, and whoever I have the most fun with during those games sticks with me. I might even try a few chars not mentioned and see if they can surprise me, Vega did in SF4 at least.

I find that the best way to get a feel of how a character plays is buy duking it out in real multiplayer matches where you will have to use a few mindgames with somebody and get a real challenge as you learn them, which is why I'm not using CPUs for this. As mentioned before, I probably didn't enjoy Pikachu all that much since I was limited to 5 stupidass CPU opponents and only 1 stage was available to play, and each match felt linear to me and not really challenging; probably bored more with the demo itself than Pika. With a real human to fight against, you'll have to play smart with a character you don't know and it gives you a bigger run for your money. Who knows? It might even make a character you lack interest in become interesting if you give him/her a chance if you get into a tough fight with them.

I personally don't care for atm and I don't like too much in the demo, but for the latter it's probably because I haven't faced any actual opponents to make him seem fun; and the same could be said about the former if I give him a chance. Basically, great fights against good opponents might, just might make boring characters seem fun for me and anyone else in the same boat if we just give them at least one lick. Happened to me in other games at least twice: trying out someone I initially didn't like, but I did once I got into real games. I personally think its better to pick someone by experimenting with them in real games than with CPUs or training mode by yourself.

Thoughts?

 

[Jaxas]

@ Funkermonster

Honestly, if your main goal is to get a head start on Smash 4, don't go about it character-wise. No one really knows how good each character will be in the "end" at this point, so getting a real handle on the game is more immediately important.

Also, as for how to find a main at the moment, go random. Tons of random. Do lots and lots of matches, and keep in mind the characters you enjoyed playing. Focus in a bit more after a while, but make sure you get a feel for all of them first. While doing so, you'll learn a lot and get a solid handle on the game itself. From there, you can keep narrowing it down to a single main, or even a double-main. Just don't go above 3; in my opinion (which is just that, an opinion) 3 is the cap for the number of characters that a person should have, otherwise it starts slowing them down improvement-wise.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

@ Funkermonster

Honestly, if your main goal is to get a head start on Smash 4, don't go about it character-wise. No one really knows how good each character will be in the "end" at this point, so getting a real handle on the game is more immediately important.

Also, as for how to find a main at the moment, go random. Tons of random. Do lots and lots of matches, and keep in mind the characters you enjoyed playing. Focus in a bit more after a while, but make sure you get a feel for all of them first. While doing so, you'll learn a lot and get a solid handle on the game itself. From there, you can keep narrowing it down to a single main, or even a double-main. Just don't go above 3; in my opinion (which is just that, an opinion) 3 is the cap for the number of characters that a person should have, otherwise it starts slowing them down improvement-wise.

Thats a viable technique but will take a long time to actually accomplish.

I find it easier to watch videos of good players with characters you are interested in. The ones that you get most excited to watch are some of the characters you should start to focus on. Everyone has a general idea of the kind of playstyle they enjoy and characters they know they'd never play.

 

[Jaxas]

Thats a viable technique but will take a long time to actually accomplish.

I find it easier to watch videos of good players with characters you are interested in. The ones that you get most excited to watch are some of the characters you should start to focus on. Everyone has a general idea of the kind of playstyle they enjoy and characters they know they'd never play.

I agree, and I was talking for the long term; even still, playing random character matches a ton for the first like 3-4 days gives a solid idea of how the game works, and a decent idea of what each character does.

 

[Gre ninja'd]

I've had the game since the 12th, and i think almost all characters are good, but characters like bowser and rosalina are above everyone else

 

[Signia]

You should choose based on preference or distaste for the following archetypal character traits:

Combos/Setups From Throws
Combos/Setups From Dash Attack
Command Grab
Good Hitboxes
Super Armor
Aerial Mobility
Fast Fall
Fast Dash
Fast Walk
Safe/Autocancelling Aerial
Zoning Projectiles
High Damage/Combo Projectiles
Killing Projectiles
Killing Aerial
Killing Grab
Killing Ground Attack (reliable)
Combo To Kill Conversion
Strong Edgeguard
Safe Recovery
Shield Breaking Attack
Hard-Read, Big-Punish Move
Counter
Combo Breaker
High Damage
Lives Long
Fast Attacks
Zair AirDodge Cancel

Dive Kick
Meteor Aerial
Two Aerials From a Short Hop
Long Ground Poke
Fast, safe Ground Poke
Fast, Strong Ground Attack
Anti-air Ground Attack
Canned String Mixup
Jab Flurry Combo
Fast Jab
Juggling Ground Attack
Juggling Aerial Attack

Large Hurtbox
Slow Dash Speed
Weak Recovery
Weak Edgeguard
No Projectile
Weak Hitboxes
Low Damage
Slow Attacks

etc.

Choosing any other way can cause clashes with your playstyle. You might be disappointed if you want to play Marth to do crazy combos, and have smooth ground movement, and have great setups from grabs when he's now a character with an improved counter, dangerous shieldbreaker, and relies on big disjointed hitboxes to control the close range neutral game.

On the other hand, you could just adapt. Your playstyle could simply change to suit the character that you like for other reasons. You might have not even discovered your own style yet. Style, defined here as a set of options you tend to favor or be good with, and understand well, is important to consider if you want to choose a character that can do the things you want to be able to do.

 

[Gre ninja'd]

You should choose based on preference or distaste for the following archetypal character traits:

Combos/Setups From Throws
Combos/Setups From Dash Attack
Command Grab
Good Hitboxes
Super Armor
Aerial Mobility
Fast Fall
Fast Dash
Fast Walk
Safe/Autocancelling Aerial
Zoning Projectiles
High Damage/Combo Projectiles
Killing Projectiles
Killing Aerial
Killing Grab
Killing Ground Attack (reliable)
Combo To Kill Conversion
Strong Edgeguard
Safe Recovery
Shield Breaking Attack
Hard-Read, Big-Punish Move
Counter
Combo Breaker
High Damage
Lives Long
Fast Attacks
Zair AirDodge Cancel

Dive Kick
Meteor Aerial
Two Aerials From a Short Hop
Long Ground Poke
Fast, safe Ground Poke
Fast, Strong Ground Attack
Anti-air Ground Attack
Canned String Mixup
Jab Flurry Combo
Fast Jab
Juggling Ground Attack
Juggling Aerial Attack

Large Hurtbox
Slow Dash Speed
Weak Recovery
Weak Edgeguard
No Projectile
Weak Hitboxes
Low Damage
Slow Attacks

etc.

Choosing any other way can cause clashes with your playstyle. You might be disappointed if you want to play Marth to do crazy combos, and have smooth ground movement, and have great setups from grabs when he's now a character with an improved counter, dangerous shieldbreaker, and relies on big disjointed hitboxes to control the close range neutral game.

On the other hand, you could just adapt. Your playstyle could simply change to suit the character that you like for other reasons. You might have not even discovered your own style yet. Style, defined here as a set of options you tend to favor or be good with, and understand well, is important to consider if you want to choose a character that can do the things you want to be able to do.

I chose to main duck hunt cause i liked his moveset and thought he was cute. I will master him, cause I like dogs. Thats it, and I've already beat Pb&J and duncan kneedeep with him, so I feel as if I'm adapting to how he plays.

 

[Signia]

I chose to main duck hunt cause i liked his moveset and thought he was cute. I will master him, cause I like dogs. Thats it, and I've already beat Pb&J and duncan kneedeep with him, so I feel as if I'm adapting to how he plays.

Well I hope you like projectile zoning, since if the game is balanced you won't be able to do much else.

 

[Gre ninja'd]

It is pretty balanced, the game just revolves around counterpicks, or how to play against certain characters like palutena(just beat one in for glory). Bad matchups are very common in this game, and projectile zoning isn't as good as it seems. Duck hunt doesn't have the best combo game, but he can be up close if he has too.

 

[mimgrim]

I know I have a tendency to favor more defensive characters and characters that are more ground based (Melee Peach being the exception). So far Little Mac seems to fit the bill perfectly but there are still a lot of other characters I have an eye on.

But considering how it took me a good while to finally settle a main for the past games, and Project M, it'll probably take me a good long while again to settle on a main for Smash 4.

 

[Funkermonster]

@ Jaxas and @ SamuraiPanda

Thanks guys, I'll look for videos right away and try the random idea, both ur ideas are good. However @ SamuraiPanda while I think you made a good guide overall, I can't say I fully agree with the part about "3. Choose a character that you WIN with", I am personally kind of against a few your points on that.

Warning: Huge wall of Text in both spoilers, you might have to skim through a bit or read at your own risk!

Spoiler

1. When you speak of picking someone you win with, I think you're focusing a little bit too much on Tier Rankings of affecting wins/losses. There's another factor that I think you forgot to mention: Learning Curves. A Tier Ranking and Matchup alone doesn't always affect how much you win or lose with a particular character, there is a possibility that your main choice is just highly technical and takes a long time to learn.

Examples:

Zabel, Bulleta, and Bishamon from Vampire Savior.
Sackboy in Playstation All Stars Battle Royale
C. Viper, Makoto, and Yun in Street Fighter 4
Dhalsim in Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo
Fox in Melee
Vergil, Spencer, C.Viper, and plenty of others in UMVC3 (the game as a whole is very hard though)


These characters are all high or top tier in their respective games and can be very annoying to fight against if you happen to meet somebody who knows what he is doing, and their players might clobber you so badly that it prompts you to try the characters for themselves. They make it look so easy when they were playing you, and you think that if you try out there characters it'll be easy for you to... only to find out that it's not. Sometimes a character can be good or average, but do not seem so at first glance because they are just technically demanding and require lots of execution to truly use. While the people playing you seem to get a lot of wins with those particular, you may find yourself struggling quite bad and you don't find yourself playing nearly as well as they did, and yet the characters are still ranked high in tier lists and have great tournament results. Even though they are high tier with great performance in competitive play, you may discover that they are characters you actually have to lose a lot with before you can start winning with them and they are nowhere near as simple as you thought they were, although once you do start winning, you may find yourself winning A LOT. You should consider that these characters just might not be low tier at all, they are just technically demanding and require some losses before wins. Most people would recommend that you stay away from advanced level characters when you are new to the game, but I would personally recommend that you start using them immediately if you ever plan to main them at all, so you will get a headstart and learn them now so you won't have to lean them later. Although, I also recommend double maining and picking an easier character to go with your hard one, using him for most of your player matches while you are still learning your difficult one, and then you can both use them equally once you get the hang of him. Two heads are better than one, right?

And to pick a character partly because you win them... No offense man, but in some cases (just some) I think that's actually not a good message to tell people. You must also consider the skill of your own opponents as a factor too, In opposite of my point about characters potentially being good but hard, there's also another category: Characters that feel good, but actually aren't good. Sometimes a character can have a low learning curve and net you a lot of wins in novice level of play, but are still low tier (or will become low tier, either way) and then winning with them becomes harder as you face better people. People in lower levels of play might not be able to beat them, but there is a chance better players can exploit their weaknesses much more easily.



Pretty simple point really: Sure you might be winning a lot with a particular character when you start the game, but what's gonna happen if you stop winning so much as you advance on higher? He/she might win you a few games when you're new, but as you rise up there is a chance that the players you face know what they're doing and can exploit your character's weaknesses so easily, potentially making them look more like bad characters than good ones (like T.Hawk or Blanka in Street Fighter); as their disadvantages become far more apparent in higher level of play. That said, I really wouldn't recommend wins and losses be that much of a deciding factor on choosing a main.

And speaking of wins and losses:

Spoiler

2. "Winning is important. If you still lose despite being an amazing player then you'll eventually just give up, because losing doesn't feel good at all."

I'm not quite sure how to say this: While i do agree that Winning is more fun than Losing, I still don't think you should pick somebody just because you win with them for all the reasons mentioned before. And this applies to all Fighting Games (not just Smash): while Losing may be fun, you technically HAVE TO lose if you ever wanna get better, and you need to learn to accept loses, BRUTAL losses. Nobody ever gets good at a game just by winning repeatedly, even the best players had to deal with this before becoming what they are now. In fact in most fighting games, the majority of players are expected to lose WAY more often than they'll win. Even if you are maining a high tier, whether he/she has a high or low leaning curve, you still have to learn to deal with losses and winning will possibly become progressively harder as your skill increases; tiers alone are gonna affect how well you do with somebody.

Feel free to skip this if you want
Example: In Vampire Savior, Gallon/Jon Talbain is one of the game's top tier characters and is considered to have the easiest learning curve mainly because he's incredibly fast, annoyingly hard to hit, and does extreme damage on anyone who allows him to -- and with minimal effort . In fact, other newbies might actually HATE you for picking him because he is one of those cheesy characters in fighting games everyone likes to complain about; like Sagat in Street Fighter 2 Turbo, Meta Knight in Brawl, or Peacock in Skullgirls. The truth about him though, is while he's an absolute nightmare in novice and intermediate play, the Talbain players start to thin out a bit in high level play and his weaknesses become a bit more apparent: Difficult Ground Game, Below Average Health/Stamina, and Lack of Defensive Options; which gives him a rather predictable and linear playstyle, and people can get your number before the round even starts.. if ya know what I mean. Even with a character as strong and as simple as he is, you, yourself still have to be good to compete with the top dogs.

Basically, whether you have a good/bad character or an easy/hard one, don't expect your victories to come so easily either way; you still have to work for them and you will still have a fair amount of losses. This is more of my personal opinion than a true fault with your guide, but I would personally rather let new players know what they are getting themselves into rather than encourage them to pick somebody just because they are winning their first few games. Also, I wouldn't personally say losing is all that bad depending on the person. For most people, losing is actually a learning experience or if you're me: a motivation to improve. Watch some replays of your losses and get help from better people to tell you what you did wrong, so that you can learn WHY you lost and what you want to work on first. And I am personally a person who gets salty when I lose and I usually want revenge on those who beat me (especially if they are using the same characters I use) and it only motivates me to improve, and I think it actually makes losing fun. It burns up my fighting spirit and says "Let me at em'! I'm not done with you yet!", so I know for a fact I'm not bored. And I think I really depends on the type of loss/scenario that makes us have different emotions:

• I lose to my opponent, but I was actually doing pretty fine and still got some good damage and I almost beat him, it was a close defeat. I still lost, but I did something and I could probably beat him if I tried again. Maybe he doesn't even beat me consistently and only beats me half the time, and it could potentially end up the other way around once I find ways to work around him. The majority of my time it ends up like this! So its still very fun.
• I lost to my opponent several times in a row with a lose streak over 10+ matches and I didn't even come close to beating him, he practically squashes me like a bug. THOSE are the kinds of matches that are discouraging. I faced two people on Vampire Savior a few weeks ago and they trampled me +20 times and I felt discouraged at first, but people told me that they are some of the best players on GGPO and a lot of people get crushed by them honestly, so I had nothing to worry about. People seem to think I am still fairly good at the game regardless and I can still beat other people pretty nicely. At least, I learned some techniques I can use from those 20+ losses since they were good, and I kinda now feel honored that I even got to face them; especially if they give me tips.
• Sometimes winning is just too easy. I am the one trampling someone else, who seems really bad or just does not understand how to play the game, they provide very little challenge for me and I'm not really learning much from playing them (besides what NOT to do). I oughta find another match with someone better, but I'd be kind and tell them what they did wrong before I do so and where they want to improve.

If somebody views losing as nothing but discouraging and aren't willing to deal with it, they probably don't even like the game that much and chances are they wouldn't last minutes in competitive play. If you view losses as only discouraging, that view is from an anti-competitive standpoint and chances are you should either stick to casual play or move onto another game.

See what I'm going with all of this? Its okay to pick a character that you win with from the start, I do agree with at least half of that statement. But I think people do need to realize that victory will never come so easily no matter who they pick, and they might have to suffer some losses before they do start winning. If you do start winning matches so early in your time with the game, do consider what's gonna happen if you stop winning with them later on or win less consistently. And its gonna get harder as you further progress, as your characters' disadvantages become far more apparent as you get better at the game since you meet better opponents. If you ever wanna get better you need to learn to deal with losses, HEAVY losses.

I have no problems with your other 2 ways of choosing mains however, and I still think ya made a great guide overall. Thanks!

 

[Nintendrone]

@ Funkermonster
I think you're looking at this from an extreme. Naturally you'll want to practice so you can actually win and see potential. If your main still gets stomped and some other char you play does so much better, you might wanna consider making him your new main. Obviously you'll wanna still have fun with your new main and follow the other two points.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I'm not quite sure how to say this: While i do agree that Winning is more fun than Losing, I still don't think you should pick somebody just because you win with them.

I agree. Thats why I include the "Metaknight syndrome" anecdote right after I state that winning is important. Its also why I emphasized twice in the OP that you have to have ALL 3 to play competitively at a high level for a long time.

You bring up an interesting point of, essentially, when does one lose so much that they don't think their main is working anymore. The answer to that question is when you feel like you've stopped significantly improving with your main and you're still losing more than you're winning.

Basically, whether you have a good/bad character or an easy/hard one, don't expect your victories to come so easily either way

Yup. You should read the thread I just posted about becoming a competitive Smasher which includes this information at length.

 

[Sliq]

I'm playing Link because my shield pressure and projectile game is amazing.

Edit: Seriously, get on my level.

 

[Putuk]

But everything I know and love is low-tier trash!

 

[Jucchan]

I'll probably be looking at these: , but the first few days I'll likely be playing random characters. That's how I ended up playing Marth and Olimar in Brawl.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I'm playing Link because my shield pressure and projectile game is amazing.

Edit: Seriously, get on my level.

Nobody is at your level, Sliq. You know that.

 

[The TaBuu]

Kind of confused on some things here lol.
So here's the thing. I'd say I'm good enough with certain characters such as Pikachu and Zelda to win a decent/fair amount of matches online. Yet someone is just holding me back from dedicating myself 100% to such characters. I think it could be because I lack the second element in choosing a main. Yet characters like Charizard, Little Mac or Ike just feel fun to play. I'm not good with them by any means, but I can win matches. And I'm not sure if it's because they fit my playstyle or there's just something wonky about powerhouse killers that make them inherently "fun" to play.
So what decides this? Do I just pick up characters that aren't necessarily top tier competitive candidates but "fun" to play? Or should I go with characters that I'm more confident with but may not necessarily give me the same "fun" factor?

 

[Funkermonster]

Kind of confused on some things here lol.
So here's the thing. I'd say I'm good enough with certain characters such as Pikachu and Zelda to win a decent/fair amount of matches online. Yet someone is just holding me back from dedicating myself 100% to such characters. I think it could be because I lack the second element in choosing a main. Yet characters like Charizard, Little Mac or Ike just feel fun to play. I'm not good with them by any means, but I can win matches. And I'm not sure if it's because they fit my playstyle or there's just something wonky about powerhouse killers that make them inherently "fun" to play.
So what decides this? Do I just pick up characters that aren't necessarily top tier competitive candidates but "fun" to play? Or should I go with characters that I'm more confident with but may not necessarily give me the same "fun" factor?

1. Don't base your decision solely on Online Matches. Imo, For Glory Mode kinda sucks when it only allows FD and Omega Form stages to slightly polarize game balance and the lag is horrendous even if you have a good connection. Try a local game on other stages and see if you can't get the same or better results. For instance, Little Mac ain't as good as Battlefield as he is on FD (trouble with platform camping since his air game sucks), so of course he dominates in For Glory and you might have a harder time on said stage; as with the others you mentioned.

2. Tiers aren't really a thing yet since the game is too young, so I don't think you need to worry so much when the metagame is still fresh out of the oven. If you find those 3 more fun, then just use em anyway. Don't be surprised if they stop working for you in the future Although, I don't knowing anybody calling Pikachu or Zelda any likely top tier candidates.

 

[CharZane]

I agree with the core ideas of the OP (playstyle+passion+potential), though I'm pondering how one might pick secondaries or the like now-- assuming smash 4 allows for any 'main' (or nearly any, but lets for now assume it's balanced enough for just about any, since, in the lack of metagame, that's currently a technical truth). While there'd be little point in a tier list that just has just, like, A and B tiers, definitely agree that more matchup information would be far more invaluable... I'm sure everyone's itching to find themselves a Rosalina counterpick given all her potential, for example, and there's certainly not many who won't have considered finding a LM counterpick if only after an annoying For Glory match or two (or ten).

Loved Link in 64 for the projectile zoning mixed with disjointed hitboxes, forever hooking me to sword characters (and I've always been a bit Zelda fan).
Melee Marth's spacing and so-beautiful-aerials captivated me, the tipper mechanics' surgical feel being so immensely rewarding (and he sparked my interest in a now-favorite series in Fire Emblem, to boot).
In Brawl, Marth's changes broke my feel for him entirely, but Metaknight's omnipotence rather killed my interest in playing simply because, while I liked him as a character and I liked his playstyle (and winning was a given, because, you know, Metaknight), I lost interest once it became clear that it wasn't 'me' that was winning, but the character.
Project M renewed my interest, of course, but a bit skeptically at first-- I still couldn't really get a feel for Marth, of course, but Ike had always been interesting, and the mission-statement of 'balance' had me feeling like that was excuse to use a 'low-tiered-in-brawl-vanilla' character-- he had the spacing game I loved about melee Marth along with so much power it was downright addictive. I reveled in mastering RARed Bairs and quickdraw'd jab combos just to show off his speedier attacks.
In smash 4... the first character I used was Robin in a game against a stranger at the store. It took me weeks past that to actually decide Robin was my main, but between Metaknight's sour aftertaste, an admittedly petty grudge against Link's gale boomerang, and Ike lacking his no-lag acting out of quickdraw and that unfairly instant jab startup, I didn't really take to either despite their feeling overall better... though, for Link, the dash attack almost let me forgive the boomerang, if not for the still-missing illusion stab and my having gotten used to... well, better aerials (iconic or no, his Uair/Dair never really 'worked' for me, and kicks seemed a bit silly when, well, sword). Toon Link was a secondary in Brawl, but I never really kept much of a passion about the character despite skill and playstyle meshing-- at least not like I first had with Marth back in melee (I learned wavedashing for that dude-- barely, granted, but so many days of scooting across FD like a madwoman with little puffs...). Ah, but anyways, Lucina turned out to have what I liked about Marth from melee, and so feels like a solid secondary for me (or perhaps third), given that the lack of tipper mechanics lets me focus on the oh-so-fun short-hop Fairs. But Robin almost everything I could ever want-- strong aerials, projectiles, zoning, low emphasis on grabs compared to, say, Dedede (who I was good with in Brawl but didn't have much fun with), and a 'technical' side with the whole durability mechanics... That, and Robin was never 'too quick to keep up with', which kept me from getting a feel from, say, melee Fox (fast falls were intimidating with that kind of vertical speed from the get-go-- especially when shines came into the equation...). In fact, 'can handle Fox' was half the reason Marth worked for me, thinking of it... Ah, but right, even when I switched to Lucina craving speed and a usable grab (can't even shield grab a dash attack, Robin?), it turned out that I was far better with Robin that I'd realized, given that, despite feeling intuitive, I was doing much worse with Lucina despite fairly minimal mistakes...

That was a lot of rambling, sorry-- in short, though, suddenly finding out that you were playing at a much higher level with a character than you expected? Definitely a great sign. Still, pondering how to figure what matchup-problems I'll need to cover, along with who might work to do so that's within my interests to play...

 

[Jahordon]

Yeah, complaints that your wins aren't legitimate because you used a good character are really classic scrub complaints. Are they just admitting you're more skilled at using the character select screen to your advantage? It's actually funny because if you then try to talk to them about how terrible their character is compared to yours and how they shouldn't play such a limited, bad character (true or not), they'll get defensive and talk about how many good things their character can do... even if they were just whining about losing because your character is better. Somehow their justification will simultaneously hold contradictory positions and only clearly assert the claim that they're in some vague way better at the game than you even though they can't actually beat you. Just disregard these complaints or better yet be fueled by them; they're actually pretty funny when you stop taking them seriously.

I'd add another big point here that some may not agree with but is super important to me. Make a big effort to avoid characters with hard counters. A hard counter is a match-up so bad that you're virtually guaranteed to lose if an opponent of reasonably similar skill pulls it against you. Think of Donkey Kong in Brawl; he was generally actually pretty good, but King Dedede just destroyed him with a pretty simple infinite chaingrab. The problem with characters who have any match-ups like this at all is that they can't really win for you in the counterpick system. If they're your only character, you just lose outright as soon as anyone figures out that you have no back-up and that they can just pull the match-up you can't win. Even if you have secondaries, think of the gamble. Game one is a double blind pick. Do you pick your character (who you probably have a reputation for picking) and hope the opponent doesn't pick your hard counter? Guess wrong and you go down a game. If you ever win a game, you then have to pick your character before your opponent. Are you up for risking that you'll get counterpicked and face the terrible match-up? Having to make these kinds of decisions makes winning sets on a consistent basis very hard!

Sometimes characters with hard counters have many good match-ups elsewhere and can make great secondaries to cover your main's weaknesses or just to use as counterpick characters (where you only ever pick them when you know what character the opponent is using already), but as mains, they add so much more anxiety and risk to your trip through a bracket than even a generally bad but more well rounded character would. Even worse, early on this might not be so obvious to you; if you lose a lot in general, you probably care more about average win rates than about your consistent ability to win, and if you have a weak reputation, people are way less likely to counterpick against you anyway. That's just setting you up to get invested in a dead end character; I definitely plan for this to be my primary motivation in selecting a character in smash 4. The first question I will ask myself for any prospective main as I figure them out is "can this character deal with all 50 other characters reasonably effectively?", and if I answer "no" for even one of them, I'm going to keep looking for a main.

This, defidefinitely. I spent all my time when brawl came out playing game and watch, who was a good character at the start, and I was placing in many tournaments. Suddenly everybody figured out you could DI out of his turtle, and I never placed with him again, and I was too behind the curve to catch up with another character. I'm worried this will happen with whoever I main in Smash 4.

I am having a lot of success with Diddy, but I have a bad feeling his command grab and bananas will be easily spot dodged by good players, leaving him weaker than the rest of the cast. Greninja seems like a safe bet with few terrible match ups. I like how Pacman feels, but I really have no idea how good he will be.

Do you or anybody else have any thoughts on which characters are going to end up being bad despite seeming good now? Which characters do you think will stand the test of time and have few horrible matchups? Conversely, which characters do you think will end up being dead-end characters?

 

[Conda]

This, defidefinitely. I spent all my time when brawl came out playing game and watch, who was a good character at the start, and I was placing in many tournaments. Suddenly everybody figured out you could DI out of his turtle, and I never placed with him again, and I was too behind the curve to catch up with another character. I'm worried this will happen with whoever I main in Smash 4.

I am having a lot of success with Diddy, but I have a bad feeling his command grab and bananas will be easily spot dodged by good players, leaving him weaker than the rest of the cast. Greninja seems like a safe bet with few terrible match ups. I like how Pacman feels, but I really have no idea how good he will be.

Do you or anybody else have any thoughts on which characters are going to end up being bad despite seeming good now? Which characters do you think will stand the test of time and have few horrible matchups? Conversely, which characters do you think will end up being dead-end characters?

I understand what you mean - the fear of spending time developing skill and connection with a character, only to have them hard countered or easily dealt with.

I play a lot of Ness and Im still not sure he's safe. Not just due to PKT gimping, but punishing landings which is much easier to do now than in brawl where you could safely airdodge land. DH to recover is a norm for Ness, but there dong seem to be any safe landing options if your opponent is standing by idly waiting to punish with a grab or whatnot.

I think good players should still be able to sandbag Ness, and that keeps me from dedicating myself to him.

 

[Jabejazz]

One must not disregard the competitive players that don't necessarily play to win it all, but just to push a certain character to its extremes.

There's being the best player, and there's being the best player at a specific character.

Mind you, it's better if you get both, but sometimes your tastes are in the way, and you have to settle at being the best Brawl Ganondorf player in the world.

 

[Lenus Altair]

I'll just add that finding a main can take some time, and it may change months (or years) later after you think you've nailed it down. And hell, S4 has only been out for going on a month. No need to commit to favorites yet.

I'm currently in an odd place myself. I was exclusively a Pit player in brawl with little effort in secondaries, but now S4 Pit has changed to such a degree that the playstyle I used him for before isn't really there. While I'm still comfortable with him, I've been expanding my options and trying Palutena and Duck Hunt to fill the roles the Pit no longer can. In the long run I may abandon them all and go to other characters, but it'll be a choice of fitting my versatile, campy to offensive mixup preference that'll decide a character. Tiers don't matter in that choice.

 

[The TaBuu]

What I'm doing right now is going on For Glory and playing 20 matches with each character. This will take time but by the end of it, I hope to have an idea on how each character and have some form of data on how well I was able to perform with each character (although it'll be inaccurate). Honestly for a game like Smash 4, the best way to find a main is to just immerse yourself into the game and play everyone.

 

[Conda]

What I'm doing right now is going on For Glory and playing 20 matches with each character. This will take time but by the end of it, I hope to have an idea on how each character and have some form of data on how well I was able to perform with each character (although it'll be inaccurate). Honestly for a game like Smash 4, the best way to find a main is to just immerse yourself into the game and play everyone.

Something I've been doing to get a better 'feel' for characters is playing vs a level 9 cpu. The point isn't to win, but to see how easily I can control the character and utilize their options - to see how naturally they come to me. Being able to defeat a lv9 Mario with much less effort than usual doesn't mean I'm amazing, but it does seem to indicate that I have a more natural grasp of the character.

Then you take it online and see how you do and see if there are shortcomings that become more obvious that keep you from really enjoying the character. I feel like I'm stuck in a loop of "A-HAH! Of COURSE I should try out ____, why didn't I think of that before. That'd be a perfect and safe main for me!" and then something along the way discourages me from them

 

[The TaBuu]

well yeah you could do that same thing in the training mode and with much more diverse options, such as being able to frame-stop animations to see the hitboxes and frames at which the moves come out.

 

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

This might be a good reference for some people.

Remember, fun is a factor. If you're not enjoying yourself, you won't get much out of it. Many top players are able to push this aside, but many of us (myself included) can't.

 

[ConsummateK]

Will definitely be coming back to this thread once I've got some time to read through everything. I'm basically new to Smash and currently in the process of figuring out who my main should be. Based on pure "passion" I'm looking at Mega Man, Link and Ganondorf. I seem to be pretty okay with ZSS...but have no real attraction to the character and am bad enough right now that it probably doesn't matter.

In terms of feeling this out (and I'll re-read and watch that TLOC post asap) are there recommendations for how I should be playing the game? I feel a bit directionless right now and have primarily been playing through classic mode on each character to get a very rough grasp for each's abilities. I suppose eventually I should get online...but I'm pretty confident that I'm am bad enough that I wouldn't learn much with my current skill level.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Will definitely be coming back to this thread once I've got some time to read through everything. I'm basically new to Smash and currently in the process of figuring out who my main should be. Based on pure "passion" I'm looking at Mega Man, Link and Ganondorf. I seem to be pretty okay with ZSS...but have no real attraction to the character and am bad enough right now that it probably doesn't matter.

In terms of feeling this out (and I'll re-read and watch that TLOC post asap) are there recommendations for how I should be playing the game? I feel a bit directionless right now and have primarily been playing through classic mode on each character to get a very rough grasp for each's abilities. I suppose eventually I should get online...but I'm pretty confident that I'm am bad enough that I wouldn't learn much with my current skill level.

That's not true at all. As the thread notes, playing against humans (especially those better than you) is the way you learn. Classic mode unfortunately doesn't teach you anything for competitive 1v1 gameplay.

 

[ConsummateK]

That's not true at all. As the thread notes, playing against humans (especially those better than you) is the way you learn. Classic mode unfortunately doesn't teach you anything for competitive 1v1 gameplay.

Even if I'm still getting comfortable with things like how to do each move (or even remembering the full set that I have at my disposal?) Alright then, I'll jump in next time I get a chance to play.

 

[CharZane]

Training mode or games vs some lv. 9 bots can certainly be of use for practicing specific techniques, mind you. Mastering the mechanics is far more important as a place to start than learning the tactics-- knowing your foe intends to grab doesn't help you if you don't have a solid spot-dodge, etc.. Playing against people is certainly more important in the grand scheme of things, but without bots, I'd have never had a chance to learn wavedashing back in melee. Keep in mind that bots are interchangable with lower skill humans, though-- if you have friends who're worse off, they're just as useful for refining your mechanics.

It's like in any other game-- starcraft immediately comes to mind. You play against bots (or entirely alone, for that matter) to master the exact timings and method of your build order before using it against people and expecting to win. Crisp mechanics open up your in-game mind to notice important information about what's going on... rather than being ensnared by the need to focus on each action you take. Play as many bot games as you need to-- if you're fighting a person and losing because of mechanical mistakes, then more bot games will help with that much quicker (as you needn't think about their tactics).

The most important bit is to learn one thing at a time-- if you can learn it against bots, then by all means, but attempting to multitask one's learning doesn't accomplish anything. Having a human involved if you're learning something purely mechanical, like combos or hitboxes, is just going to distract you. Many mechanics can only be mastered against humans, of course (CPUs don't grab enough to require spot-dodging practice, they don't practice human tactics like spamming or gimping that much, etc.), but ignoring bots as a training tool is letting ego interfere with improvement.

Also, be sure to save and rewatch replays. Whether you win or you lose, there's almost always something to learn from your replays, so long as you're not just watching all of one-- watch only wins, and you'll not learn from game-ending mistakes. Watch only losses, and you can't develop your style by identifying what works for you. There's no need to study games where there's no competition (if you get 2stocked 20 games in a row, or if your foe SDs for just as many in a row, trying to take something away from it is apt to be somewhat wasted effort), but don't neglect the value of watching-- you can learn just as much from games of your own as you can from pro-level gameplay.

 

[M@v]

Don't be afraid to play multiple characters this early on; its okay to experiment until you find your groove. Feel out all the characters you have interest in, and follow the guidelines Panda stated, because I agree with all of them. I would also especially stress that you don't get turned off a character just because you have a hard time controlling them; its really hard to control all the characters on the 3DS to the degree you want. Wait until the Wii U for those characters if the controls are getting to you. Its what I'm doing with Fox and Lucina. Besides those two though, I still have a pool of 8-9 characters I have a lot of interest in. I'm going to take my time with this decision and get it right. In brawl, although I had a pretty successful career, I suffered from switching mains between 4-5 people because my feelings kept changing about them/I'd get frustrated with one after a string of so-so/bad tourneys, blame the character, and switch. Ultimately I feel that held me back from being even better with only 1, 2, or 3 characters tops. So, this time around, I'm trying to pick my guns right from the start, and stick to them. I only want to switch down the line because I'm legitimately bored of a character, not because I'm disappointed with results.

 

[Tyril132]

You need to put your time into learning characters, by watching videos and actually playing them. Maybe a character could be played in a way you never thought of, and when you try playing that way you fall in love with them.

I just want to go on record and say that this is exactly what happened to me with .

I played Brawl casually near release and totally dismissed him. I came back to the game a few years later with an open mind and he's quickly grown on me. He's still not my best character (that's probably ), but he's the one I most enjoy playing and he's quickly becoming my main.

 

[CharZane]

Don't be afraid to play multiple characters this early on; its okay to experiment until you find your groove. Feel out all the characters you have interest in, and follow the guidelines Panda stated, because I agree with all of them. I would also especially stress that you don't get turned off a character just because you have a hard time controlling them; its really hard to control all the characters on the 3DS to the degree you want. Wait until the Wii U for those characters if the controls are getting to you. Its what I'm doing with Fox and Lucina. Besides those two though, I still have a pool of 8-9 characters I have a lot of interest in. I'm going to take my time with this decision and get it right. In brawl, although I had a pretty successful career, I suffered from switching mains between 4-5 people because my feelings kept changing about them/I'd get frustrated with one after a string of so-so/bad tourneys, blame the character, and switch. Ultimately I feel that held me back from being even better with only 1, 2, or 3 characters tops. So, this time around, I'm trying to pick my guns right from the start, and stick to them. I only want to switch down the line because I'm legitimately bored of a character, not because I'm disappointed with results.

This. So much this. In fact, I'd argue that it's just as important to remember to duck out of your comfort zone to learn how different characters function-- if nothing else, it can only make your understanding of matchups against them all the more understandable. That, and always remember to give every character a chance. Getting good at the mechanics of the game through mastering the basics and intermediates of every character gives you such a great degree of not just understanding, but cross-training, too. Trying Little Mac, despite all the stigma, had me find what was almost a dual main (seriously considered it, but he's more solid as a seconday for me). Toon Link's lack of changes compared to Link's nostalgia-overloading new dash attack had me wary of trying him, but he similarly became a solid secondary once I started to give him a chance-- he still fits me better than trying to force myself to get a feel for Link's lesser speed. But most of all is Robin and Lucina... the former I was petrified of playing someone so contrary to any style I'd ever considered, but I keep peeling away new layers of play every time I worry of reaching a wall, as I stick to the attempt. But it's Lucina who surprised me most of all. Between a hand injury, years of disuse, mechanics changes, and shifting style, I was honestly afraid to hope that I could ever recapture what bits of melee Marth I used to manage, least of all on the 3ds... but, even without C-stick aerials to aid in spikes and retreating Fairs, and even with that new obstacle of safer air dodges, I've surprised myself by finding that there was still such reliable steel beneath all that rust... I'm only seeing the first glimpses of it, certainly, but I was so close to never giving it a chance...

Also, can I just say that this thread is just fantastic? The information here is just beautiful. T^T

 

[S2]

Great points.

I'll throw out there that sometimes if you're struggling to find a main, falling back on the third point (who you can win with) can be a valid way to satisfy the other two. The OP already talked about Metaknight syndrome, what I mean here is sampling a large variety of fighters and narrowing down who makes you win instead of who you wanted to initially main. When a game is new you may want to walk in and main a specific character. That's fine. For some players you main won't emerge until you try other members of the cast and realize you win more with certain ones because the main you originally wanted doesn't fit your current playstyle).

The thing about fighting games is that oftentimes opinions on characters (not their playstyle, I mean actual character designs) does get influenced by playing them. If you find your winning a lot with a character you otherwise didn't know or love, chances are you'll start to get attached to them if you play them enough. I can't tell you the number of Marvel characters I otherwise didn't care about growing up that I ended up liking a lot more after playing them in MvC games.

 

[Buddy002]

Hello all,

I am having some troubles choosing my main. I enjoy many characters, none of whom I wanted to main.... Entering the game, I wanted to main and . However, they didn't agree with me. I don't know why, they just don't feel right. So I went to my old main, . Felt decent, slightly slow. I have gone through multiple characters including . No one felt as good as my old main felt in Melee and Brawl, Falco. There were certain things I liked about the characters above, but no one just clicked naturally. Do you all have any ideas/help? Thanks for your time!

 

[CharZane]

Hello all,

I am having some troubles choosing my main. I enjoy many characters, none of whom I wanted to main.... Entering the game, I wanted to main and . However, they didn't agree with me. I don't know why, they just don't feel right. So I went to my old main, . Felt decent, slightly slow. I have gone through multiple characters including . No one felt as good as my old main felt in Melee and Brawl, Falco. There were certain things I liked about the characters above, but no one just clicked naturally. Do you all have any ideas/help? Thanks for your time!

I had this same problem for a while, but my old Melee main started to grow back on me after a lot more practice than I'd have expected it to take-- I'd definitely recommend giving a long study to Falco (or Fox, if looking for a biiit close to melee Falco or such) to start; you'll likely find at least a secondary out of the trouble. You can go ahead and keep retrying characters that 'don't agree with you' to see if you make any breakthroughs, while going with 'what wins' can help you pin down your style a fair bit, even if that has you using someone you know you're not keen on maining for a while. It took me a good hundred games to even start feeling out Lucina in a way that at all felt reminiscent of my old Melee Marth, but it did happen-- definitely recommend giving that a try to see if such turns out to be the case for you. Playing some bot matches can really give you some perspective (based on how many stocks you have left vs a lv. 9 in a 7 stock match, is my usual measure-- though with my new dual main Lucina I can manage a 2v1 against random lv. 9's a bit now, too... which was certainly quite telling).

 

[Conda]

Important to acknowledge if a characters' speed gives you trouble controlling them. Characters with high speed have a high skill cap, and require dexterous and quick-minded players to control. If that is not your primary skillset, then perhaps try not to insist upon choosing someone like Sheik or Fox or Captain Falcon or Greninja to main.

Instead, consider the more slow-paced yet hardy characters that have a similar playstyle to the 'quick' characters, yet with a more 'focused' angle. Falco, Ganondorf, Ness, Duck Hunt, Pac Man, etc may fit the bill. Don't write them off just because they're not the ones you see in tournament streams as often (Sheik v Sheik or Sheik v Mac is common currently), because current tournament results do not take into account character potential.

Currently, the top characters are very moveset-decided. Those with simply powerful movesets and movepools are ranking highly in tournaments because hey, that's an immediate advantage you have when playing as that character. However, as time passes, our grasp of the game's mechanics and how we use them at a high level (the metagame) will make player skill more important. Do not be mistaken - what I mean is that there are some characters that, while not overpowered, will have qualities that shine as time passes.

These qualities will be harnessed by players, and sometimes these qualities can become stronger than the initial 'most powerful characters' that are being represented. Those with the more advantageous movesets will still always be powerful, but other strengths will arise amongst the cast. Things like 'how many options do you have from neutral?' and 'how many ways can you punish in mid-range?' and 'what attacks are safe on block?' become more important as time passes.

Basically, not every characters' metagame is evolving at the same pace, and not everyone's potential has been unlocked. Is easy to see where there is likely LESS potential (ie is obvious they can't combo or set up into KOs, which is very important), but that doesn't mean there isn't a way to play the character that is reliable. So don't worry about who is 'top tier' currently - it does mean something, but it's supposed to be 'interesting', not demoralizing.

Choose someone less popular and see what they're all about!. Somebody has to play Pit/Samus/Luigi/Jigglypuff/MK etc and develop their metagame in order to confirm or deny what's up with them in comparison to the more-obviously-good characters.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

I'm 15. I'm not going to Apex or Big House until I mature enough and get licenses and a flippin' car... And money. Although I think I need to clarify something. Something important to everyone in the competitive scene.

Never think you've chosen your main until you've tried out all the characters on the roster. And I have my own experience with this game to present the proof.

When I first saw the final roster, I automatically wanted to main Duck Hunt Dog. I grew up shooting Ducks and hoping I could find a way to shoot the doge in the face. Sadly, I couldn't, but seeing the fact one of my childhood not-so fond memories was not able to fight Link, Mario, Pikachu, and other characters astounded me.

And then I played him. I got decently good at utilizing his frisbees and Fair / Bairs and other stuff. And then after a few days I went online and got wrecked... to an utter extent. I couldn't see why this was happening until I tried other characters, and the 3 I tried and the 3 I neglected to learn are now the 3 in my signature. I tested out everyone. I couldn't get the hand of Pikachu, I tried Shulk and didn't even get passed learning the arts and when to use 'em. Don't get me started on my experience with Donkey Kong.

So I leave you with this- You've been short-hop Fairing with your Marths and Smashing w/ your Macs but are you sure those are your mains? Try something new. You might like it.