How would be Smash Bros.' future without Sakurai (at least as Director) ?

[Wintropy]

I'm honestly curious as to what the game would be like if he remained director, but had more direct input from other creators whose properties are in the game. Maybe the likes of Aonuma and, hey, even Itoi would give him some interesting ideas and help the creative process?

Of course, that could just as easily result in all of the creators trying too much to prioritise their own series and pull the game in different directions. At the very least, they evidently trust Sakurai enough with their characters and franchises to let him have free reign of them in the game.

 

[Swedish_Otaku]

Is the title a poem?

 

[Deleted member]

I want Sakurai to step down as Lead, but still be apart of the team. He's a bit too stubborn about how the game should be, and doesn't seem to take criticism the proper way

Sakurai does take criticism but yeah he is a bit stubborn but then again all game lead directer are not just sakurai.

 

[NinjaWaddleDee]

Sakurai definitely need to get replaced. I tired of him putting characters that no one wants. (I'm looking at you, Dark pit, Wii fit trainer and Rosalina.)

A bunch of people wanted Rosalina. She's probably the most popular Mario princess now. She's independent and don't need no man, so that's why people (including me) like her. None of us were expecting Wii Fit Trainer, but she's a great character too. Dark Pit on the other hand....yeah.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

A bunch of people wanted Rosalina. She's probably the most popular Mario princess now. She's independent and don't need no man, so that's why people (including me) like her. None of us were expecting Wii Fit Trainer, but she's a great character too. Dark Pit on the other hand....yeah.

Dark Pit was rather popular in Japan, so it's only the West that was somewhat meh towards him.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think Sakurai is necessary for the "spirit" of smash to survive. Think of the sony smash game whose name i cannot remember. Why just calling it a smash game instantly evokes 4 player fighting game and people know what we're talking about. But removing him as director / team lead would benefit the fighting game aspects i think. But then again i personally love the smash spirit so i hope he stays. Unless 4wiiu sucks then I'll turn on him like a 2 dollar bimbo because I'm cheap and tawdry like that.

 

[D-idara]

We should be giving Sakurai praise when he did well.

You haven't even answered why Ridley would be a bad thing for Smash4, I must ask again, what's wrong with you?

How dare Sakurai doesn't cater to only the fandom with character inclusions! Wii Fit Trainer?! Awful choice because no one wanted her! Smash Bros should only ever be about what the fans wants! Screw being original and surprising people with interesting choices! Darn you Sakurai, cater to my needs or stop developing games!
/s

He could've catered at least a little more to the fanbase and less to inflate his own ego.
Sakurai should step down because of his overall bizarre decisions and out-of-touchness with the fanbase.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I not sure DP been heavily requested, since your main is DP. ( 0.0 coincidence?)

Pitto is pretty popular in Japan

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

You haven't even answered why Ridley would be a bad thing for Smash4, I must ask again, what's wrong with you?

He could've catered at least a little more to the fanbase and less to inflate his own ego.
Sakurai should step down because of his overall bizarre decisions and out-of-touchness with the fanbase.

I like how everyone is acting spoiled and not thanking him for making the game. The dud worked while INJURED you guys. I find that so rude

Douple post, parden

 

[D-idara]

I like how everyone is acting spoiled and not thanking him for making the game. The dud worked while INJURED you guys. I find that so rude

Douple post, parden

The dude worked while INJURED, but he almost deliberately ignored the fanbase's biggest request, working really hard doesn't mean squat if all that hard work wasn't put into the things tha should've been worked on, but we already went over this argument like a dozen pages bad, Sakurai did good, but for Smash, 'good' doesn't cut it.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

The dude worked while INJURED, but he almost deliberately ignored the fanbase's biggest request, working really hard doesn't mean squat if all that hard work wasn't put into the things tha should've been worked on, but we already went over this argument like a dozen pages bad, Sakurai did good, but for Smash, 'good' doesn't cut it.

Why is everyone in the Smash community so rude.. but I guess I understand

 

[LancerStaff]

The dude worked while INJURED, but he almost deliberately ignored the fanbase's biggest request, working really hard doesn't mean squat if all that hard work wasn't put into the things tha should've been worked on, but we already went over this argument like a dozen pages bad, Sakurai did good, but for Smash, 'good' doesn't cut it.

It's not about the biggest fans. If it was, we'd have Melee 2.0, something you rather clearly don't want.

 

[RespawningJesus]

I can imagine Sakurai still being the game director for Smash in the future, although I doubt he will be able to do things as hands on as he used to do.

 

[Frostwraith]

A loud minority doesn't make it bigger by miracle.

Just saying.

 

[Naoshi]

The dude worked while INJURED, but he almost deliberately ignored the fanbase's biggest request, working really hard doesn't mean squat if all that hard work wasn't put into the things tha should've been worked on, but we already went over this argument like a dozen pages bad, Sakurai did good, but for Smash, 'good' doesn't cut it.

I honestly feel disgusted reading this post. Wow.

 

[the8thark]

You haven't even answered why Ridley would be a bad thing for Smash4, I must ask again, what's wrong with you?

I could as what's wrong with you for thinking Sakurai is wrong for not having it as a playable character, but I am not, as that would be rude. I agree with Sakurai on this and that's all there is to it.

Sakurai's unhealthy obsession with Kid Icarus on the other hand is just bad. He even made smash run 5 minutes because the Kid Icarus fights were about 5 minutes as well.

 

[Frostwraith]

Sakurai's unhealthy obsession with Kid Icarus on the other hand is just bad. He even made smash run 5 minutes because the Kid Icarus fights were about 5 minutes as well.

It's just Sakurai recycling concepts from his previous games, to be honest.

The Challenge grid has been a Sakurai game thing since Kirby Air Ride.
Smash Run itself is based on City Trial from Kirby Air Ride.
The Intensity difficulty system was introduced in Kid Icarus: Uprising and is reused in this game.
The menus have similar designs since Kirby Air Ride. Apparently, they're designed by his wife.
A chunk of the enemies in Smash Run are imported from his two previous projects: Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Subspace enemies and some Mario enemies) and Kid Icarus: Uprising. The majority of them are still made up for this game (some recycled models aside), though.

I guess it's the way he does things. I think it's more of a game design ideology/philosophy rather than "over-representation" or "bias towards his own games".

I don't think he cares from what games the things are, as long as they work well on Smash Bros.'s gameplay.

Having played KIU a lot, that game also has a lot of stuff recycled from Smash, such as a Smart Bomb item that acts identically the one found in Smash. The game itself also has similar mechanics to Smash.

The same developer (or group of developers) reusing ideas and importing stuff from previous projects is not unheard of and it's actually a common practice in the area.

And trust me that I know what I'm talking about. I've programmed stuff myself and know that reusing code and assets from previous works helps on saving time for next projects.

 

[ChickenWing13]

Hah! Smash has no future without Sakurai.

Once the boat goes down the captain goes with it. Sayonara!

 

[LunarWingCloud]

But we need our Smash Samurai for great justice. T_T

 

[Nekoo]

The same developer (or group of developers) reusing ideas and importing stuff from previous projects is not unheard of and it's actually a common practice in the area.

And trust me that I know what I'm talking about. I've programmed stuff myself and know that reusing code and assets from previous works helps on saving time for next projects.

Yup , All AAA Game reuse assest .

The most revelant is Call of Duty / FiFa / Battle Field / Skylanders / Lego XXX game / Assasin's Creed . 95 % of the coding assest are reused .
Pokemon use previous installement assest , except for generation jump I->II->III->IV->V->VI where the assest are remade from scratch .

So reused assest is not bad if it great idea from different experience and fuse em .

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's just Sakurai recycling concepts from his previous games, to be honest.

The Challenge grid has been a Sakurai game thing since Kirby Air Ride.
Smash Run itself is based on City Trial from Kirby Air Ride.
The Intensity difficulty system was introduced in Kid Icarus: Uprising and is reused in this game.
The menus have similar designs since Kirby Air Ride. Apparently, they're designed by his wife.
A chunk of the enemies in Smash Run are imported from his two previous projects: Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Subspace enemies and some Mario enemies) and Kid Icarus: Uprising. The majority of them are still made up for this game (some recycled models aside), though.

I guess it's the way he does things. I think it's more of a game design ideology/philosophy rather than "over-representation" or "bias towards his own games".

I don't think he cares from what games the things are, as long as they work well on Smash Bros.'s gameplay.

Having played KIU a lot, that game also has a lot of stuff recycled from Smash, such as a Smart Bomb item that acts identically the one found in Smash. The game itself also has similar mechanics to Smash.

The same developer (or group of developers) reusing ideas and importing stuff from previous projects is not unheard of and it's actually a common practice in the area.

And trust me that I know what I'm talking about. I've programmed stuff myself and know that reusing code and assets from previous works helps on saving time for next projects.

I don't think we can count out bias entirely, but I do agree a lot of it is more of a design choice. Especially with his wife helping.

It would be nice if he paid attention to the non-Japanese audience slightly more, though. Little Mac was nice, same with Duck Hunt, regardless. There's other characters, of course. I don't just mean Ridley either. Mike from StarTropics has gotten love here and there, and ironically I've seen more love from Takamaru from US players lately. Probably just observation and he's more popular in Japan. It does stick with Sakurai's previous statement, though. He outright said he'll make Takamaru playable when he gets a new game. Which he didn't, so...

I actually do wonder if he couldn't get much help from Camelot, which could explain the lack of Golden Sun content entirely. Dark Dawn's bad reception could matter too. Maybe Sakurai wanted to reuse earlier stuff, but Camelot wouldn't cooperate? And I'm not even talking about Isaac potentially being a DLC playable here.

 

[Frostwraith]

I don't think we can count out bias entirely, but I do agree a lot of it is more of a design choice. Especially with his wife helping.

I don't think it's bias that much. It is what it looks on the surface, though.

But one shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

It's quite explicit that assets from both Brawl and Kid Icarus: Uprising were used in this game. It wouldn't be surprising if Sakurai had the assets himself.

Adding the KIU enemies and Brawl enemies to Smash Run likely didn't take as much effort as adding the other enemies. They're imported data, likely adjusted and fine-tuned to work in the new game.

It's adding a lot of content in a cost-efficient way that saves time as well.

I find myself thinking less and less it's bias, but it was more of adding as much content as possible within the limitations of development, such as budget and time.

It would be nice if he paid attention to the non-Japanese audience slightly more, though. Little Mac was nice, same with Duck Hunt, regardless. There's other characters, of course. I don't just mean Ridley either. Mike from StarTropics has gotten love here and there, and ironically I've seen more love from Takamaru from US players lately. Probably just observation and he's more popular in Japan. It does stick with Sakurai's previous statement, though. He outright said he'll make Takamaru playable when he gets a new game. Which he didn't, so...

Well, except for , all newcomers have significant popularity both in Japan and the West. Some leaning towards one side than the other, but still. (I'm leaving Wii Fit Trainer out of this, since she's an exception.)

I think that was where Sakurai was going with the roster picks. He prefers to avoid adding characters that cater to just one region. They still happen, though, but are a minority.

He has acknowledged that the addition of Marth and Roy in Melee contributed to the Fire Emblem series being brought to outside of Japan, so he sees merit in adding that sort of character.

I actually do wonder if he couldn't get much help from Camelot, which could explain the lack of Golden Sun content entirely. Dark Dawn's bad reception could matter too. Maybe Sakurai wanted to reuse earlier stuff, but Camelot wouldn't cooperate? And I'm not even talking about Isaac potentially being a DLC playable here.

I don't know about that.

The assets thing isn't as simple as it seems.

Sakurai likely reused a lot of KIU stuff because the games possibly share a similar engine, especially considering both are 3DS games. There are also a bunch of recycled files from Brawl on the 3DS card. Not just enemies but leftover files (including stuff related to cut characters).

In fact, I'm reminded that Mario Golf: Advance Tour has reused assets from Golden Sun. Both are GBA games by Camelot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think it's bias that much. It is what it looks on the surface, though.

But one shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

It's quite explicit that assets from both Brawl and Kid Icarus: Uprising were used in this game. It wouldn't be surprising if Sakurai had the assets himself.

Adding the KIU enemies and Brawl enemies to Smash Run likely didn't take as much effort as adding the other enemies. They're imported data, likely adjusted and fine-tuned to work in the new game.

It's adding a lot of content in a cost-efficient way that saves time as well.

I find myself thinking less and less it's bias, but it was more of adding as much content as possible within the limitations of development, such as budget and time.


Well, except for , all newcomers have significant popularity both in Japan and the West. Some leaning towards one side than the other, but still. (I'm leaving Wii Fit Trainer out of this, since she's an exception.)

I think that was where Sakurai was going with the roster picks. He prefers to avoid adding characters that cater to just one region. They still happen, though, but are a minority.

He has acknowledged that the addition of Marth and Roy in Melee contributed to the Fire Emblem series being brought to outside of Japan, so he sees merit in adding that sort of character.


I don't know about that.

The assets thing isn't as simple as it seems.

Sakurai likely reused a lot of KIU stuff because the games possibly share a similar engine, especially considering both are 3DS games. There are also a bunch of recycled files from Brawl on the 3DS card. Not just enemies but leftover files (including stuff related to cut characters).

In fact, I'm reminded that Mario Golf: Advance Tour has reused assets from Golden Sun. Both games are GBA games by Camelot.

Palutena is probably a bit more Eastern than Western, but agreed otherwise.

Yeah, the high amount of content is a nice touch, especially since it's high quality. Brawl had a bit of that issue. It had little polish, imo.

Anyway, it is odd that Camelot has a very tiny slew of content besides some Mario-related stuff. Brawl had little Golden Sun content, but it was there none the less. I find that suspicious, unless it was just a Dark Dawn reception-based reaction. Which, considering how bad it flopped, wouldn't be too surprising.(game is cool, but it really could've been severely better. It's the most disliked of the 3 for various reasons). Other M has similar issues, but Samus and Zero Suit Samus are already playable, so using the most updated elements from it was a reasonable move regardless. If Isaac was already playable, Dark Dawn elements likely would've been taken too. As for Legend of Zelda, Ganondorf's not in SS. Using the last designs Ganondorf was in for the main cast is logical to me. He clearly gave them cartoony elements as well. Ganondorf's face looks similar to his Toon counterpart, even(a nice touch, IMO).

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai definitely need to get replaced. I tired of him putting characters that no one wants. (I'm looking at you, Dark pit, Wii fit trainer and Rosalina.)

So are you just going to ignoring the other fan favourite character that got in like little mac,shulk,bowser jr,megaman,palutena,pac man and greninja? And btw people like rosalina and dark pit and wii fit trainer was only put in as a joke character like mr game and watch back in the melee days.

 

[Wintropy]

Anyway, it is odd that Camelot has a very tiny slew of content besides some Mario-related stuff. Brawl had little Golden Sun content, but it was there none the less. I find that suspicious, unless it was just a Dark Dawn reception-based reaction. Which, considering how bad it flopped, wouldn't be too surprising.(game is cool, but it really could've been severely better. It's the most disliked of the 3 for various reasons). Other M has similar issues, but Samus and Zero Suit Samus are already playable, so using the most updated elements from it was a reasonable move regardless. If Isaac was already playable, Dark Dawn elements likely would've been taken too. As for Legend of Zelda, Ganondorf's not in SS. Using the last designs Ganondorf was in for the main cast is logical to me. He clearly gave them cartoony elements as well. Ganondorf's face looks similar to his Toon counterpart, even(a nice touch, IMO).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure having a poorly received game doesn't knock out their chances. Otherwise we'd be able to count the characters that would still stick around on our two hands!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure having a poorly received game doesn't knock out their chances. Otherwise we'd be able to count the characters that would still stick around on our two hands!

For entirely new characters it does matter(it could be why Ridley nor Isaac are shown on the 3DS. They may just be NPC's and nothing more due to Other M's horrid reception and Dark Dawn's mediocre reception). Other characters already in aren't affected nearly as much. A series that isn't terribly popular isn't going to get the most stuff in a Smash game, after all. He wants to appeal to those that are popular just a tad bit more. Which is fairly logical.

 

[RespawningJesus]

For entirely new characters it does matter(it could be why Ridley nor Isaac are shown on the 3DS. They may just be NPC's and nothing more due to Other M's horrid reception and Dark Dawn's mediocre reception). Other characters already in aren't affected nearly as much. A series that isn't terribly popular isn't going to get the most stuff in a Smash game, after all. He wants to appeal to those that are popular just a tad bit more. Which is fairly logical.

I highly doubt Other M would stop the inclusion of certain characters from Metroid, considering that Metroid is one of Nintendo's more popular franchises.

 

[Wintropy]

For entirely new characters it does matter(it could be why Ridley nor Isaac are shown on the 3DS. They may just be NPC's and nothing more due to Other M's horrid reception and Dark Dawn's mediocre reception). Other characters already in aren't affected nearly as much. A series that isn't terribly popular isn't going to get the most stuff in a Smash game, after all. He wants to appeal to those that are popular just a tad bit more. Which is fairly logical.

No, no, I get that. What I mean is, Metroid and Golden Sun are reasonably popular aside from those particular games - I don't think having some poor games in your respective series means you don't matter anymore, and I'm sure Sakurai gets that alright.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I highly doubt Other M would stop the inclusion of certain characters from Metroid, considering that Metroid is one of Nintendo's more popular franchises.

Not in the East, actually. Other M was despised over there as well, and it's popularity, well... that's a Western thing. It's enough of a reason to keep the current count at Samus x2. Which are still pretty good reps regardless. He also buffed them well, so it's not like he's making them weak or something.

No, no, I get that. What I mean is, Metroid and Golden Sun are reasonably popular aside from those particular games - I don't think having some poor games in your respective series means you don't matter anymore, and I'm sure Sakurai gets that alright.

To be repped in general, yes. But this means they may not warrant a new character, and thus far, it seems to outright be the case. Or they're lower priority, a reasonable possibility. DLC at best.

 

[Wintropy]

To be repped in general, yes. But this means they may not warrant a new character, and thus far, it seems to outright be the case. Or they're lower priority, a reasonable possibility. DLC at best.

I dunno. It still sounds like arbitrary reasoning to me to say "okay your game wasn't great so you don't get a chance anymore".

I see your point, though, and I suppose only time will tell how it all fares for our thus-unheard of friends.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I dunno. It still sounds like arbitrary reasoning to me to say "okay your game wasn't great so you don't get a chance anymore".

I see your point, though, and I suppose only time will tell how it all fares for our thus-unheard of friends.

Yeah. I think his idea is to only include either characters that have some uniqueness or those that he thinks will go well with people, based upon sales. It's arbitrary, but still possible. It's no less arbitrary that his insistence of keeping all of the original 12 around. He doesn't have to say it either since it always happens as. Jigglypuff is often last on the data list, so she may be lower priority, but clearly higher than some fan favorites like Mewtwo. Why? Who knows. He's weird. I actually do like all the original 12 are always in, as I'm a fan of the first game, but not everybody does. Maybe he feels nostalgia for the first one and considers it stil a great masterpiece. It'd be neat if he spoke about his decisions on this.

 

[TheTuninator]

It's really disappointing to see people mad at Sakurai over the non-inclusion of characters who quite likely wouldn't have made it in under any director. We can easily convince ourselves that a particular character is a shoo-in in these kinds of internet echo chambers, where certain characters are anointed as near-surefire inclusions by a large group of posters, but the reality is that we're only a small part of the overall Smash fanbase.

I don't particularly agree with the notion that a new director would mean more "mainstream" character choices. Most of Sakurai's picks already line up with the general current popularity of characters fairly well. What's more, a new director is far more likely to look to previous rosters for inspiration than the demands of the online fanbase. Needless to say, anyone looking at the history of Smash rosters will find a good deal of oddball and retro picks to guide their choices.

 

[LancerStaff]

It's no less arbitrary that his insistence of keeping all of the original 12 around. He doesn't have to say it either since it always happens as. Jigglypuff is often last on the data list, so she may be lower priority, but clearly higher than some fan favorites like Mewtwo. Why? Who knows.

That'd be him not wanting to cut unique characters. He'll avoid it when he can, but there obviously isn't always time for everybody. This is just conjecture, but I'd bet cutting Mewtwo and Lucas over, say, G&W and ROB, was a result of how little they added in terms of gameplay compared to the rest.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That'd be him not wanting to cut unique characters. He'll avoid it when he can, but there obviously isn't always time for everybody. This is just conjecture, but I'd bet cutting Mewtwo and Lucas over, say, G&W and ROB, was a result of how little they added in terms of gameplay compared to the rest.

Lucas doesn't add much(except very unique A attacks and was removed because Mother 3 was irrelevant anyway, which is what he was talking about for some removals). Mewtwo, however, was beyond unique. Jigglypuff was blatantly higher priority than him and nothing more. Nobody plays like Mewtwo and literally only one of his moves is modified for Lucario. He shares nothing else in common besides being badass, which isn't much relevant to gameplay. So he added quite a lot too. All 4 of them added a big amount. The choices to remove those two from the base copies weren't gameplay reasons, that's for sure.

You don't cut two characters who have highly unique gameplay and cite "gameplay reasons" and expect anyone to buy it. That's why he called Ice Climbers "technical issues", since that's all it was. He added them regardless of having zero new games, so that's not a reason to cut them for being "old". It's not hard to place why each character was cut or not finished entirely if you follow what he says but apply what he says carefully, and not just willy-nilly.

 

[LancerStaff]

Lucas doesn't add much(except very unique A attacks and was removed because Mother 3 was irrelevant anyway, which is what he was talking about for some removals). Mewtwo, however, was beyond unique. Jigglypuff was blatantly higher priority than him and nothing more. Nobody plays like Mewtwo and literally only one of his moves is modified for Lucario. He shares nothing else in common besides being badass, which isn't much relevant to gameplay. So he added quite a lot too. All 4 of them added a big amount. The choices to remove those two from the base copies weren't gameplay reasons, that's for sure.

You don't cut two characters who have highly unique gameplay and cite "gameplay reasons" and except anyone to buy it. That's why he called Ice Climbers "technical issues", since that's all it was. He added them regardless of having zero new games, so that's not a reason to cut them for being "old". It's not hard to place why each character was cut or not finished entirely if you follow what he says but apply what he says carefully, and not just willy-nilly.

Mewtwo had poor gimmicks. A temporary stun (equivalent to burying, paralyzing, and sleep), a pathetic throw/deflector combo, a long-distance warp that does no damage, and a projectile that deals damage while charging. And now with Palutena, he has nothing unique (and remotely useful) to him. Sakurai said himself that he wouldn't bother with a character if they offer nothing for SSB, and Mewtwo really doesn't have anything with his Melee moveset. I won't deny that they could make something new, but making new moves and gimmicks chews up time.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mewtwo had poor gimmicks. A temporary stun (equivalent to burying, paralyzing, and sleep), a pathetic throw/deflector combo, a long-distance warp that does no damage, and a projectile that deals damage while charging. And now with Palutena, he has nothing unique (and remotely useful) to him. Sakurai said himself that he wouldn't bother with a character if they offer nothing for SSB, and Mewtwo really doesn't have anything with his Melee moveset. I won't deny that they could make something new, but making new moves and gimmicks chews up time.

And now I'm just facepalming since he was a completely unique and fun character to play. Of course doing him and fixing him up will take more time. He still offers gameplay nobody else does, so that's still a bullcrap argument. It's still low priority, but gameplay reasons alone aren't it. Or really it at all. Jigglypuff was just as bad in Brawl as Mewtwo was in Melee. And Jigglypuff is back while fully improved, meaning clearly fixing them up isn't an issue.

Nobody plays like Mewtwo, dude. At all. A move or two might be similar to someone else's who has it now, but that's irrelevant since he never got some remake like Young Link did in Toon Link. His Jump is simlar to Ness/Lucas. His Shadow Ball is similar to Aura Sphere(except even more different, and unsurprisingly, Lucario's alternates of that move just happen to be nothing like Shadow Ball. Imagine that). He's lower priority to bring back. His moveset is unique. You want to argue that making his moveset better is lower pirority? Sure, I buy that. But nobody plays like him and that's not a legitimate argument at all.

 

[LancerStaff]

And now I'm just facepalming since he was a completely unique and fun character to play. Of course doing him and fixing him up will take more time. He still offers gameplay nobody else does, so that's still a bullcrap argument. It's still low priority, but gameplay reasons alone aren't it. Or really it at all. Jigglypuff was just as bad in Brawl as Mewtwo was in Melee. And Jigglypuff is back while fully improved, meaning clearly fixing them up isn't an issue.

Nobody plays like Mewtwo, dude. At all. A move or two might be similar to someone else's who has it now, but that's irrelevant since he never got some remake like Young Link did in Toon Link. His Jump is simlar to Ness/Lucas. His Shadow Ball is similar to Aura Sphere(except even more different, and unsurprisingly, Lucario's alternates of that move just happen to be nothing like Shadow Ball. Imagine that). He's lower priority to bring back. His moveset is unique. You want to argue that making his moveset better is lower pirority? Sure, I buy that. But nobody plays like him and that's not a legitimate argument at all.

I'm not saying he didn't return because he was bad, don't misunderstand. But the one truly unique thing he has was useless. Mewtwo's Sspecial doesn't have any kind of reason you'd want to use it over other command grabs. Or a reflector, if it worked that way. Nor is there a reason to want both in the same move specifically. Besides that, we have enough floaty characters with long reach. Every single character on the roster offers very unique playstyles, Dark Pit included, while Mewtwo is basically just a blah mishmash of others. Mewtwo would practically be a newcomer in terms of putting him in, and he lacks an easy out (in?) like Dr. Mario has. "If the character really doesn't offer anything new, then why should it be on the roster?" That's one of Sakurai's rules for newcomers, and it rather definitely applies to Mewtwo.

Riddle me this: What completely unique strength does he have?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not saying he didn't return because he was bad, don't misunderstand. But the one truly unique thing he has was useless. Mewtwo's Sspecial doesn't have any kind of reason you'd want to use it over other command grabs. Or a reflector, if it worked that way. Nor is there a reason to want both in the same move specifically. Besides that, we have enough floaty characters with long reach. Every single character on the roster offers very unique playstyles, Dark Pit included, while Mewtwo is basically just a blah mishmash of others. Mewtwo would practically be a newcomer in terms of putting him in, and he lacks an easy out (in?) like Dr. Mario has. "If the character really doesn't offer anything new, then why should it be on the roster?" That's one of Sakurai's rules for newcomers, and it rather definitely applies to Mewtwo.

Riddle me this: What completely unique strength does he have?

> Implying he needs a unique strength.

And newsflash: Mewtwo is a veteran. He will never be a newcomer again. He already is unique. He's not some mishmash of others. Many characters have similar moves to others, if not just about everyone. I can't think of any character that doesn't have at least one move somebody else currently has. Meaning nobody is 100% unique period. So that argument makes no sense. He offers something unique, and his data couldn't easily be transferred over as he had little work done in Brawl. This means he'd take time, more than Jigglypuff, Charizard, Pikachu, and Lucario, all the returning Veterans Pokemon-wise. It's not hard to see why he was lower priority here. It's also not hard to see him come back via DLC/etc. Even if that means a fairly long time for now, unlike with Brawl, I doubt he's missing the fight overall this time. And so far, no argument has come up that shows why he would. Not on the base roster? Made sense for various reasons. Never finished unlike in Brawl? Seems a fairly foolish thing to say if not an extremely unbelievable statement. The chances of you being right on that are extremely slim. And I would take many more newcomers/veterans before Mewtwo myself. Doesn't make it a good decision, though.

He's unique and is fun to play. If you think anything else matters, you're sorely mistaken on why people want him back. They liked playing as him and he's popular, and he's unique as all the other unique characters currently are.

 

[LancerStaff]

> Implying he needs a unique strength.

And newsflash: Mewtwo is a veteran. He will never be a newcomer again. He already is unique. He's not some mishmash of others. Many characters have similar moves to others, if not just about everyone. I can't think of any character that doesn't have at least one move somebody else currently has. Meaning nobody is 100% unique period. So that argument makes no sense. He offers something unique, and his data couldn't easily be transferred over as he had little work done in Brawl. This means he'd take time, more than Jigglypuff, Charizard, Pikachu, and Lucario, all the returning Veterans Pokemon-wise. It's not hard to see why he was lower priority here. It's also not hard to see him come back via DLC/etc. Even if that means a fairly long time for now, unlike with Brawl, I doubt he's missing the fight overall this time. And so far, no argument has come up that shows why he would. Not on the base roster? Made sense for various reasons. Never finished unlike in Brawl? Seems a fairly foolish thing to say if not an extremely unbelievable statement. The chances of you being right on that are extremely slim. And I would take many more newcomers/veterans before Mewtwo myself. Doesn't make it a good decision, though.

He's unique and is fun to play. If you think anything else matters, you're sorely mistaken on why people want him back. They liked playing as him and he's popular, and he's unique as all the other unique characters currently are.

Doesn't need a unique strength? Name one other fighter that doesn't have a unique strength.

Never said he'd be treated like a newcomer. He'd require about as much effort, and Sakurai has outright said that a character has to be unique to get into Smash. Do you really think he could just be ported over after Sakurai said that anything Melee couldn't?

The difference between Mewtwo and the rest is that he has absolutely nothing to him. That right there is why people are so vehemently against his inclusion. Only people who want the character itself want to see him in SSB. The rest are happy making him the butt of jokes.

He's completely ununique, and you just faltered in saying that he doesn't need to be unique and not telling me what's actually unique about him. What, do you not believe in your own words? Unique characters in SSB only, absolutely no exceptions.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

When did I say every character that will come in will be unique? Sakurai never said that either. They're more likely to get in. If you actually read his interview, you know that it's a set of guidelines and not a strict formula. Honestly? I think Mewtwo is pretty much guaranteed back unless zero DLC characters happen, despite evidence showing the game is well prepared to accept them.

Oh, and fyi? Young Link, Falco, Luigi(till Melee no less), Roy, Dr. Mario, and Ganondorf did not bring anything truly unique to their debuts, not any more than Mewtwo did. Falco was just essentially Smash 64 Fox. Young Link was just a weaker Link with better jumping skills. Ooh, a fire projectile is sooooo "unique". Ganondorf didn't bring any darkness attacks, Mewtwo did so first. Power moves? DK and Bowser covers that fairy well, with Falcon somewhat too. Many characters attacked with fire before Roy, and all his moves were basically the same as Marth except his Flare Blade which just a chargeable Falcon Punch at that point. Dr. Mario was the same as Mario, with slightly varied properties. Luigi was barely different from Mario in the first game. I wouldn't call a damage taunt all that unique either. Not when it barely did much till Melee, when it could meteor smash someone. Pichu is the only clone to bring something unique, and that's damaging himself as a major mechanic. Lucario later turns "being damaged" into a severely helpful mechanic instead, the good version of it. Note how not all of these are solely because of the clone factor. That should you tell you something about how uniqueness can be applied.

So no, being ununique isn't as relevant as you spout it out to be. Mewtwo was intended to be in the first game, you know. He didn't get in due to the time constraints. Jigglypuff could be partially cloned from Kirby, which is why she was in the first game. Her high popularity in Japan also helped overall(and she was pretty good in that game too).

So you want to talk about unique cuts? Mewtwo(was worked on, Sonic came in and Jigglypuff was considered more important respectively. Not hard to grasp why he's not playable in Brawl. We know why he couldn't easily be playable right away in Smash 4), Squirtle, Ivysaur(these pair were most notable with Pokemon Trainer, lacked popularity, thus were easily lower priority), Ice Climbers(officially and only because they couldn't work on the 3DS properly), Wolf(less relevant now than Falco, time constraints), Lucas(Mother series is dead, his specials could be thrown onto Ness, his A moves were somewhat combined with Ness to a few degrees to make him less relevant but there in spirit), and Snake(nobody plays like him at all, just like Mewtwo, but we don't know any real reason he was cut).

And as a person who has played Mewtwo? Nobody has a combination of Darkness, Disabling, and Electrical attacks in that unique combinations anywhere close to like he does. In fact, he did bring something unique, darkness and a projectile that waves around, something nobody else has. There's your answer. He also had the first non-damaging Teleport move. The first deflector move that coud not damage or take control of an item. He's the only one that ever floated still to this day. Nobody can actually disable a person like he can. Putting them to sleep is an entirely different status effect, and breaking a shield is too difficult and everybody could do it regardless, not counting only he can put Jigglypuff in a disabled state reliably, since her shield breaking means she'll get KO'd in most courses.

I expect him back later in Smash 4. Do I want him back? Not as much as some. Should he? Yes. Will he? Can't see a good reason he won't come back with DLC inevitably coming.