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How to NOT SHL like a n00b...

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
If there is one common flaw that I see in most all falco videos posted up here is noobish SHLing. What do I mean by this? Simple repeated, predictable SHL patterns such as SHL-->SHL--> aerial, smash etc.

There is also an overabundance of poor spacing with SHL. So I would like you to contribute to this, which can perhaps be helpful to people at some point, and give your tips on how to properly use SHL, when to use it, SHL platform tricks... EVERYTHING about SHLing. I don't see enough people exploit its advantages, especially beggining falcos, and there really isn't an in depth guide on how to make it work besides "just laser them".

Some food for thought (what we have so far):

-Encorporate RSHL into your game. This is lacking severely with a lot of beginners, it allows you to "dance" back and forth and space yourself between your opponent... kind of acts like falco's dash dance since he doesn't have a great DD game, so use this instead
-Similarly to this concept, use wavedashing backwards out of your SHL, don't be of a "one track mind" (simply following the same old "laser laser attack" approach), mix this up with RSHL
-If you are going to camp lasers, do it strategically. Don't just sit and spam, move in and out of range and play a defensive game. "hit and run" so to speak (thanks mathos)
-Throw in more fulljumped triple lasers, and fulljumped double lasers (where the second laser lands at ground level, you fastfall this one). It allows you to chase people down in the air, and also makes you have a less predictable shl "rythm"
-Try to learn and vary your SHL height this can be useful, when fighting floaties and larger characters who can't duck under your lasers (that way if they powershield it will fly over your head).
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
ok so far the only advice is to gayzer... or g4yz3r if you want to be extra gay.
 

MrBitter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
139
SHL is one of those things that's easy to learn, but difficult to master...

I don't think of myself as an expert Falco, by any means, and making better use of SHL is something I definitely need to work on.

My favorite application of SHL, though, is as an approach.

The term I like to use is "attacking behind the laser"... Like xelad mentioned, spacing your SHL's is one of the tougher things to do, and most beginner Falco's don't do it well. The ideal SHL, IMO, is one which allows you to land in grabbing distance of your opponent, as the laser is hitting your opponent.

The benefit here is obvious. If your opponent doesn't shield, they get hit by the laser, eat a short stun, and leave themselves open to a follow up attack, which you can execute because you've spaced yourself properly...

If your opponent does shield, you've put yourself in range to grab, or pillar, or move into any number of other techniques...


So yea... my 2 cents on SHL.
 

technomancer

Smash Champion
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
2,053
Mix it up yo, and back up if you are getting spaced.

If they shield the gayzor you gots to grab often, which will open them up for things like Fsmashes and Pillars when they try to counter you, and if they spotdodge the grab alot, which they will if they're good follow up with a Jab or Shine. Remember kids, you gots to land ON TOP OF THEM with a gayzor to call it a good approach. From there it's easy to cross them up or start up your pressure games. And remember to laser as low as you can when you approach.
 

UCbizerkeley

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
41
Being able to RSHL like a pro is incredibly necessary, as is WDing + SHL. You can mix up your standard approach by SHL then RSHL at last minute or WD backwards and SHL again. The goal is to be COMPLETELY mobile with the SHL, whether its full jumping or moving forwards or backwards. If you watch BS (or forward or Shiz) their full jumps have lasers in them. If someone has gotten out of the range of an aerial while in the air via DI, ****, laser them.

PC is the master, IMO, of RSHL + SHL spacing. He alternates them and not only makes it incredibly difficult to approach him, but unpredictable as well.

Utilize full jump laser also. Falco can get off 3 lasers in a single full jump, with the last at ground level. Useful if someone is trying to get over your lasers or be a platform *****
 

strider43

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
358
Location
Fresno
Ok how about some "real" advice on SHL. Falco's laser is nearly, it not THE, greatest ranged attack in the game. It's fast and it stuns. If you ever get a chance where you opponent is spacing away from you, you'll need to always remember to spam SHL like there's friggin no tomorrow. Like I said about the gayzer as well it's very annoying to your opponent whether they show it or not. It's a great approacher technique as well so you can get near an opponent to start a combo-death.
 

Acryte

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
986
Watch ADHD and shiz and make sure to throw in some full jumped triples. but don't be to stationary though because moving RSHL and SHL makes for an active falco that keeps spacing and doesn't stand around to be attacked as easily. Plus its alot faster than just wavedashing back into some SHL. But then again I think forward has great SHL as far as timing and use. Watch him vs shiz and you can see that is his strong point.
 

mathos

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
2,440
Location
In the COK
Lasers is a game of positioning.

The reason you see n00bs lasering is because to laser/camp is easy. If you want to go the camping route, then you need to understand its a hit and run game, not a straight out campfest.

Lasering can make the opponent advance you at awkward times/positions or Falco able to advance easily. And to make is more difficult people need to understand the use of full jumped double and triple lasers for when the opponent is jumping, using platforms, or floating.

As for the hit and run game its necessary to be able to RSHL. This way you're opponent will not completely know if you're going to be coming it, which is very useful against grab happy opponents.

Really there's no easy way to tell someone when or how to laser especially in such a general sense. The laser is quite dependent on character and opponent style.
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
well I understand that its ultimately dependent on the character/opponents style this is more meant to help beginners understand how to encorporate lasering into their game, its such a powerful tool yet seems to be widely misunderstood/misused by a lot of people. Most advanced falcos (and obviously pros) understand these concepts but they aren't inherently obvious from the start. Developing your own laser style comes after the fundamentals are layed down, this is basically to teach people good starting laser habits... then they can move from there.

Oh and strider what in your opinion is THE greatest ranged attack in the game?
 

g0nz02

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
92
Location
Geneva, Illinois
Anyone who says Falco's laser isn't the best projectile in the game is either a liar or misinformed.

The way I do it, is if I got sex-kicked across FD, I'll tech in place (or roll the the edge), and just run at them, shoot 2 SHLs on approach, and land with a shine combo or a spike. Seems to work.
 

invertigo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
384
DO NOT GET HIT WHILE LASERING. YOU SHOULD NEVER EVER GET HIT WHILE SHL-ing. IF YOU DO, YOU ARENT SPACING ENOUGH.

kthx.
 

KingJiggyWiggy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
1,217
Location
I will never tell. :D
Here is how you don't SHL like a noob. Put items on. Get a metal box. Now you should be SHLing and FFing like a real b****!

Don't forget to do this at a tournament guys. It will make you look uber pro. And don't forget, FLASHY MOVES ARE EVERYTHING!!! NO ****ING MINDGAMES!!!!

That is all.
 

strider43

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
358
Location
Fresno
Oh and strider what in your opinion is THE greatest ranged attack in the game?
Falco's lasers duh... I mean can you name a single projectile in the game that is not only as fast as his laser, but also stuns? Sheik's needles take a while to charge and it isn't as much knock back when you fire them one by one. Samus's missiles are good but you have to suck to get hit by them because they are way to slow and easily predicted. Link's and Ylink's arrows, bombs, and boomerang adds great damage and fairly some knockback but it's to slow. Fox add's no knock back and everyone else is just crap. Doc has nice pill's but they're bouncy and slow.

Long story short, Falco has the best projectile.


yay my 100th post.
 

Stryk9

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
286
Location
Victoria, BC and Yukon
k one thing i need clarified. IS rhls when you jump away and turn in midair and laser them or are you simply jumping backwards somehow while facing them and lasering?


Also, what are your thoughts on a falco ditto, i find it really frustrating as both falcos jockey for laser supremacy and get annoyed.
 

Nihility

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2005
Messages
240
Location
St. Albert, Alberta
RSHL is when you jump away and turn around in midair to laser them, yes.
Falco dittos basically some up to this simple mathematical equation.
Shine = X
Stock = Y
If X is present, Y is not. One shine and that Falco's stock is gone ;_;
 

lonelytraveler8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
259
Ok, RSHL is jump backwards, press opposite direction, shoot

or

start dashing away into a SH, turn in air then shoot?

The first doesn't really get you moving much. :/

What I've been practicing lately is to start a dash away and then "jump backwards" and shoot. I actually move a bit in the opposite direction and can shoot and control the height of the laser as normal. I can't shoot nearly as fast as I can standing still or approaching yet, but I figure with time that'll change.
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
Falco's lasers duh... I mean can you name a single projectile in the game that is not only as fast as his laser, but also stuns? Sheik's needles take a while to charge and it isn't as much knock back when you fire them one by one. Samus's missiles are good but you have to suck to get hit by them because they are way to slow and easily predicted. Link's and Ylink's arrows, bombs, and boomerang adds great damage and fairly some knockback but it's to slow. Fox add's no knock back and everyone else is just crap. Doc has nice pill's but they're bouncy and slow.

Long story short, Falco has the best projectile.


yay my 100th post.
Yeah I agree with this, in fact its pretty obvious that falco has the best projectile. The reason I asked you is because I got confused by your other post where you said "falco has one of the best, it not the best, projectile". I read that fast and didn't realize you meant IF not the best projectile... but yeah glad to see you ahve your facts straight! Just a misunderstanding :dizzy: (oh yeah maybe you should stop posting in colors too... just a thought)

k one thing i need clarified. IS rhls when you jump away and turn in midair and laser them or are you simply jumping backwards somehow while facing them and lasering?


Also, what are your thoughts on a falco ditto, i find it really frustrating as both falcos jockey for laser supremacy and get annoyed.
Stryk, all neutral b moves can be reversed in the game (falcon punch, sheik's needles, everything!). Falco just happens to have one of the few useful instances of this fact in the game. what you want to do is as you are retreating tap the other direction and then shoot B. Basically think of yourself as doing a normal SHL but you have one extra movement which is tapping the joystick in the opposite motion. And yes its used for retreating and lasering, not lasering away from your opponent.

Falco dittos are well... annoying. But you seem to have the general concept summed up, its all about finding an opening and then comboing the other falco as much as you can. In this instance a comprehensive knowledge of use of SHL comes in handy. You want to disrupt their normal pattern of lasering. Some tips are fullhop triple lasers, or fullhopped double lasers (where the second one ends up ground level). Also you should learn how to shield right after a laser shot. Waveshielding works well for other characters as well, and its not a bad option for falco excep that you have a laser too! So fight fire with fire. Watch the forward vs. shiz falco dittos to get a good idea of how the laser positioning works.
 

captainlukey

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
603
i find now that i am getting better with falco that short hop lasers are like peachs turnips...
its not to tack damage on....
its like a combo builder... that few frames of stun works well when your rite in your opponents grill...
so itd be something like shl, shffl nair...
like you see in all the good falco vids...
once you actually get it mastered you will find yourself getting up way close, shl, and then youve scored yourself a free hit and maybe a combo off one single shl.... and it comes out way fast and looks way flashy... especially shl, wavedash back into dashdance... shl out of dashdance and get into the combo...
the shl is great for mind games, tacking a little extra damage at safe ranges... and great for building combos cause it has like no lag....
i could go on for hours about how godly this move is in the rite hands... but you guys probly hear it all around the boards so ill leave it be....
good thread xelad...
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
thanks guys, this seems to be coming along well, and hopefully it can help people who have predictable lasering patterns, or who don't laser enough.
 

Stryk9

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
286
Location
Victoria, BC and Yukon
Yeah I agree with this, in fact its pretty obvious that falco has the best projectile. The reason I asked you is because I got confused by your other post where you said "falco has one of the best, it not the best, projectile". I read that fast and didn't realize you meant IF not the best projectile... but yeah glad to see you ahve your facts straight! Just a misunderstanding :dizzy: (oh yeah maybe you should stop posting in colors too... just a thought)



Stryk, all neutral b moves can be reversed in the game (falcon punch, sheik's needles, everything!). Falco just happens to have one of the few useful instances of this fact in the game. what you want to do is as you are retreating tap the other direction and then shoot B. Basically think of yourself as doing a normal SHL but you have one extra movement which is tapping the joystick in the opposite motion. And yes its used for retreating and lasering, not lasering away from your opponent.

Falco dittos are well... annoying. But you seem to have the general concept summed up, its all about finding an opening and then comboing the other falco as much as you can. In this instance a comprehensive knowledge of use of SHL comes in handy. You want to disrupt their normal pattern of lasering. Some tips are fullhop triple lasers, or fullhopped double lasers (where the second one ends up ground level). Also you should learn how to shield right after a laser shot. Waveshielding works well for other characters as well, and its not a bad option for falco excep that you have a laser too! So fight fire with fire. Watch the forward vs. shiz falco dittos to get a good idea of how the laser positioning works.

k no worries im good at lasering that way i just was confused cuz i sorta though peopel used rshl to mean something else
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
k no worries im good at lasering that way i just was confused cuz i sorta though peopel used rshl to mean something else
nope, good to hear you are good at it though, its an integral part of falcos laser game.
 

LaserBust

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
308
Location
NewportNewZ,Va
Hmm.. I find mixing up yur Shl heights help alot too.. In mindgames and in just straight up gameplay. I know when i first started Shling I didn't fast fall. So when i Shl'ed a taller character (Samus, Ganon, Boozer, blah blah) they would 1/4 of the time Power Shield it, but since i didn't FF my lasers it would just fly over my head as I continue to SHL foward. Im not saying allways shoot as high as possible or anything im just saying somtimes mixing it up could get the job done. Also I like doing RSHL's into LedgeHog then LHDL's. (Sometimes I dont do it right then I just wavedash back onto the ledge, hahaha) This way once again yur avoiding powershielders and also mindgaming. Falco Laser does own, Agreed.. #1 Projectile..
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
Hmm.. I find mixing up yur Shl heights help alot too.. In mindgames and in just straight up gameplay. I know when i first started Shling I didn't fast fall. So when i Shl'ed a taller character (Samus, Ganon, Boozer, blah blah) they would 1/4 of the time Power Shield it, but since i didn't FF my lasers it would just fly over my head as I continue to SHL foward. Im not saying allways shoot as high as possible or anything im just saying somtimes mixing it up could get the job done. Also I like doing RSHL's into LedgeHog then LHDL's. (Sometimes I dont do it right then I just wavedash back onto the ledge, hahaha) This way once again yur avoiding powershielders and also mindgaming. Falco Laser does own, Agreed.. #1 Projectile..
You bring up an interesting point, though not fastfalling your lasers makes them not half as good since you loose a lot of mobility and speed, its possible to shoot them high and fastfall after, remember, so there is no reason to not fastfall at all... not flaming since I know you recognize this I just wanted to reiterate....

RSHL edgehog into LHDL eh? Fancy.... I personally worry about missing the edgehog, I never bothered getting the RSHL edgehog timing down perfectly since other methods are just about as fast and easier, but then I guess I'm just lazy. Good input on laser height though, I'll add that to the top.
 

LaserBust

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
308
Location
NewportNewZ,Va
Yea I still FF my high lasers, I just meant I first realized mixing up heights are good because of my nooby ways. Thx tho =D
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
Yea I still FF my high lasers, I just meant I first realized mixing up heights are good because of my nooby ways. Thx tho =D
heh its interesting the way we learn things. But yeah mixing up laser heights is important, though controlling the lasers can be taxing at times.
 

Maplestory

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
65
Location
Methuen, Massachusetts
If there is one common flaw that I see in most all falco videos posted up here is noobish SHLing. What do I mean by this? Simple repeated, predictable SHL patterns such as SHL-->SHL--> aerial, smash etc.

There is also an overabundance of poor spacing with SHL. So I would like you to contribute to this, which can perhaps be helpful to people at some point, and give your tips on how to properly use SHL, when to use it, SHL platform tricks... EVERYTHING about SHLing. I don't see enough people exploit its advantages, especially beggining falcos, and there really isn't an in depth guide on how to make it work besides "just laser them".

Some food for thought (what we have so far):

-Encorporate RSHL into your game. This is lacking severely with a lot of beginners, it allows you to "dance" back and forth and space yourself between your opponent... kind of acts like falco's dash dance since he doesn't have a great DD game, so use this instead
-Similarly to this concept, use wavedashing backwards out of your SHL, don't be of a "one track mind" (simply following the same old "laser laser attack" approach), mix this up with RSHL
-If you are going to camp lasers, do it strategically. Don't just sit and spam, move in and out of range and play a defensive game. "hit and run" so to speak (thanks mathos)
-Throw in more fulljumped triple lasers, and fulljumped double lasers (where the second laser lands at ground level, you fastfall this one). It allows you to chase people down in the air, and also makes you have a less predictable shl "rythm"
-Try to learn and vary your SHL height this can be useful, when fighting floaties and larger characters who can't duck under your lasers (that way if they powershield it will fly over your head).
lol mathos.
 

Maplestory

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
65
Location
Methuen, Massachusetts
I have 9/10 mastered RSHL by myself without help, and it is fairly easy to execute, but don't RSHL and forward SHL repeatedly, it shows your attack parttern and shoots slower. I use RSHL when I and 1" away from the opponent. w00t.
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
I have 9/10 mastered RSHL by myself without help, and it is fairly easy to execute, but don't RSHL and forward SHL repeatedly, it shows your attack parttern and shoots slower. I use RSHL when I and 1" away from the opponent. w00t.
how exactly does it show your attack pattern? The whole point is to be mixing it up, obviously if you shl to rshl 3 times and attack every time then your pattern is easy to figure out, but if you mix it in for proper spacing it is a very useful tactic. Its really not that much slower that it matters unless you are in a falco ditto and you end up getting pegged by a laser every time you rshl, but it really shouldn't be much slower than shling while going forward.
 

straight8

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
360
Location
Probably sleeping or in school.. but always in GA
when you are using falco, how does jumping and doing a triple laser help your mindgaming one bit? All you do is lose space between you and your opponent.. It's not like the other guy is going to go, "OMG, that falco JUST SHOT THREE LASERS OVER MY HEAD!!!!!!" moving back and forth is good while lazering, but full jumping and lasering doesn't help (I don't think).
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
when you are using falco, how does jumping and doing a triple laser help your mindgaming one bit? All you do is lose space between you and your opponent.. It's not like the other guy is going to go, "OMG, that falco JUST SHOT THREE LASERS OVER MY HEAD!!!!!!" moving back and forth is good while lazering, but full jumping and lasering doesn't help (I don't think).
First off don't ever say mindgaming again... ever. Ok the last laser of the full jump triple laser lands at ground level... so its not 3 lasers over their head. The point of it (same thing with the full jumped double laser) is to mix up your laser timing, its one of many options. No where did I say it was the best or that it would be used for "TEH MINDGAMEZ!", but it is useful... though your sarcasm was greatly appreciated.
 

mathos

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
2,440
Location
In the COK
Thank you xelad. Straight you need to go wait in the van!

Watch a pro match. Double and triple lasers work. I wonder if you think rshl do anything either?
 

straight8

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
360
Location
Probably sleeping or in school.. but always in GA
Thank you xelad. Straight you need to go wait in the van!

Watch a pro match. Double and triple lasers work. I wonder if you think rshl do anything either?
No, of course I don't watch any pro matches..

I've watched about a million pc chris and bombsoldier videos, and when they are playing aggressively they don't do full jumos. Of course the rshl is useful. And what are you talking about a van for?
 

Lightshade

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
639
Location
Where you live
Lasers is a game of positioning.

The reason you see n00bs lasering is because to laser/camp is easy. If you want to go the camping route, then you need to understand its a hit and run game, not a straight out campfest.

Lasering can make the opponent advance you at awkward times/positions or Falco able to advance easily. And to make is more difficult people need to understand the use of full jumped double and triple lasers for when the opponent is jumping, using platforms, or floating.

As for the hit and run game its necessary to be able to RSHL. This way you're opponent will not completely know if you're going to be coming it, which is very useful against grab happy opponents.

Really there's no easy way to tell someone when or how to laser especially in such a general sense. The laser is quite dependent on character and opponent style.
Exactly, great advice. It's true really, I think this is all that needs to be said.
 

xelad1

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
763
No, of course I don't watch any pro matches..

I've watched about a million pc chris and bombsoldier videos, and when they are playing aggressively they don't do full jumos. Of course the rshl is useful. And what are you talking about a van for?
pc chris and bombsoldier aren't the only falcos out there :ohwell: ... if you want to see how to use full jumped lasers effectively I would suggest you check out some of mathos' matches and forwards... they both use lasers extremely well (though obviously pc chris isn't bad :laugh: )

lol @ mathos' van comment.... perhaps the short bus would have been more appropriate, though less politically correct!
 

mathos

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
2,440
Location
In the COK
Unfortunately many videos, especially popular videos, are one's displaying aggressive flashy Falco playstyle. I understand that you've only seen PC or BS vids because thats typcially the only people talked about on these boards. But some other people you should check out are Forward and some people in the sticky at the top of the Falco boards. Forward has a few matches (maybe not in the sticky) with a good laser camping game.

But full jump lasers have their place. Obviously you won't do it when the opponent is right in front of you. It also becomes more difficult the faster the opponent, so thats why you won't see it much against another Falco or Fox.
 
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