How to Improve The Stage Builder.

[Sarijy]

I am an avid stagebuilder and I have a few thoughts.
I would like to make an honest to goodness discussion thread about what could specifically be done to improve the stagebuilder. But from my criticism, I love the stagebuilder and its my opinion on the best thing to happen to SSB
Common Issues are as followed.
These are my personal viewpoints. The problems can be inferred from the solutions.
This means its low to no priority
This means medium
This means high
This means First in line

Here is my list of things to state.

1. Ice Ramps/Platforms- Allows more ice based maps.
2. The fixing (Or removing) the extra blocks required around environment objects. This is fairly annoying, but not priority.
3. A timed danger that warns players: Such as picking a blank spot to be hit with a pew-pew-lazer by a robot in the backround. This is a stretch, but it would be nice.
4. X=Y movement platforms, meaning they go right and down at the same pace.
5. Fire- Usable in some form, such as make some places force your UpB renewal, but you can still fall through.
6. Vanishing Platforms- They hang around and disappear after time.
7. Sand blocks- Disappears over time, doesn't just fall. Like 5. Just they trigger after X time has passed after being touched. (Super Mario Sunshine)
8. Takeoff Platforms- Opposite of Tall Grass Platforms, they increase the launch and knockback of players.
9. Teleportation Points- Two locations with maybe little circles that teleport players.
10. Endless Pillars- Pillars that go offscreen and down or up for eternity, instead of just random floating blocks like a Super Mario Sunshine or Galaxy level.
11. Set Spawn Points- Not a huge issue. Players only spawn once, and they are random so you have a 1/4 chance of getting hurt ONCE. If the stage takes a life or permanently disables you, then theres a problem with the stage. It would be nice to control it so players don't end up in an otherwise well balanced penalty box.
12. Possibly the ability to make the stage specific objects destroyable. Gives more of a realistic and alterable feel.
13. A zip-line that gives players one-way downward movement.
14. Breakable blocks, like the Subspace Emissary and on Mushroom Kingdom
15. Tall Grass Platforms- These are my own idea: They reduce the takeoff/knockback a player gets hit by.
16. Water and Walk Off- Some people who are ultra-smashers hate any form of non 10 block long stage, but being able to make Water Stages and Walk off stages would be very nice, and it creates a nice change from the "ZOMG IMMA FALL!" sense.
17. A ladder with a platform on the top so players don't just fall after reaching the top of a ladder.
18. 90 degree rotation intervals instead of 180. Allowing players to make upside down spikes.
19. Altering Properties. I probably should have started with this. This is a number one priority in my mind. The intention allowing players to modify the current objects, choosing what has ledges that can be grapped on, how fast platforms move, how high springs send you. Etc. Spike Damage.... Yea... ETC.
20. NOT making maps online, because nobody wants to play 64 bit bowser head maps that are covered in spikes. Wastes Memory. Make it a friends only feature if it occurs.
21. Bumpers and Flippers, give makers the ability to place a light penalty/pushback.

Those are my personal viewpoints and ideas. Anyone have any other ideas/suggestions/signs/anti-signs?

 

[metalreflectslime]

How about add bumpers and flippers?

 

[Rhambo]

those are really good ideas you have... i'll edit this post with some of my own later

 

[Young_Link808]

i think

we should be able to choose out of the 3 square types regardless of the freaknig backround
( in other words we should be able to use all 3 types of sqaures/triangles/stairs whatever know matter which backround we pick )


i also think we should have the ability to change colors of all the things

AND!!!!

WE SHOULD NOT HAVE A LIMIT TO HOW MUCH PARTS WE CAN USE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( the bar on the top while making a stage

 

[japtar10101]

I was thinking that a map editor for "break the target" and "land on platform" (I think, it's been a while since I played SSB) would be nice.

Also, "capture the flag" editor and "racing course" editor.

Add in the capability of scrolling courses (although for dear lord I will not play on one!), Spinning platforms, air-ways (making drop faster or float), platforms that makes you run/walk slower, and item-spawning spots.

 

[refugee]

Something that would be cool is having the opition to choose a creature to walk around the stage and go after you (like new pork city) But some should be able to stay on the field until the fight is over or someone kills it.

 

[MFZ95]

Here is what should be in the game

1.More backrounds(or importable backrounds from your SD card,or atleast DLC backrounds)
2.Nintendo themed backrounds and parts
3.bottom less stages setting(like Green Hill Zone,the only you die is by going to the end,top or breaking the middle to fall on the bottom.
4.Just what Young Link808 says : NO LIMIT FOR PARTS!

 

[metalreflectslime]

How about add infinite respawning sensor motion bombs at certain locations?

 

[LoyalSoldier]

4.Just what Young Link808 says : NO LIMIT FOR PARTS!

I believe the limit was put in so the stage fits within one block on the Wii.


BTW did Nintendo add a way to update the game or is this just a wish list?

 

[Sarijy]

The block colors I don't think hold a high priority, because thats just changing how you want your stage to look, and it doesn't alter the play value of the stage. Making better and more varying stages gathers more interest in the stage builder, thus directing players to make more stages.
I dislike the part limit but I haven't really ever had a problem short of filling the screen with jump through platforms.
The SD card background is a great idea. I think this would also be great if you could do it with songs, but that would remove the insentive for players to gather the songs themselves.
Creatures or timed hazards like Ultimate Chimera are hard to set up, and I think they would be a little painful to put into stage editor.
I'm assuming that Smash has some form of update, being as it is internet linked and it shares maps/data. A wish list is still a good idea if there will ever be a SS4.
I'll continue to update the original post, but heres another few ideas:
22. Damage Threshhold walls, being a normal jumpthrough or dropthrough wall or floor, that will, if it takes a certain amount of damage give way to let players through. This would work to make a box around all players, and only if they are moving at X speed will they break out and be KOable.
23. Airpads More or less like the spring, except they just decrease the gravity affect on people in the area.
24. SD card backgrounds
25. Light controls, aka making it lighter/darker
26. Alter the distances off of the stage- Increase the height above the stage so its harder to juggle players off/decrease distance to the sides to KO easier. Vice Versa to.
27. Choosing where the player spawn beacon will appear.
28. One way teleports.
29. Increased gravity pads, makes players heavier in the area.
30. Elevators with Ceilings
31. Target Test editor with stationary targets.
32. Possibly an adventure editor, camera following player. This would be a difficult thing.


Back to the update thing. In the event Brawl can't be updated, there might be enough of a profit in it to make a Brawl editor game which would produce maps that could be played on brawl...
Suggestions/input/sign/anti-sign?

 

[Rash]

More backgrounds, backgrounds from an SD card, and/or the ability to use your own photos (from Wii Photo Channel) as backgrounds. That's a biggy for me. Having only three backgrounds can make stages get a tad boring after a while.

I also agree about being able to flip pieces 90 degrees. That would open a lot of doors for more creative stages, as well as more aesthetically pleasing stages (slopes can be used to add a polished effect, if you know what I mean, and using them upside down would be very nice).

Oh, and that bit about certain pieces taking up too many blocks of the map is true. Why do pieces like stairs and slopes need more space than regular blocks? Why do special pieces tend to take up twice their diameter? Improvements on the general precision of the Stage Builder would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Fuzzyevil]

Really, please remove the limit. I don't care about my map taking two blocks if it means I can finish my creation without skimping on, well, everything.

 

[SaintStrufenha]

The lack of backgrounds is pretty annoying.

Item spawns would be cool too.

 

[JNS]

the abillity to have paltformas at any angle,hell atleast the ability to rotate them in 15 degree intervals would be nice

smaller scale blocks. Right now even the smallest scale seems too big

sett the limits to your stage.

 

[abgar]

i would like to be able to put "background" blocks, you know, blocks in the background that arent solid and just there for estetic purposes.

 

[Rovec]

i would like to be able to put "background" blocks, you know, blocks in the background that arent solid and just there for estetic purposes.

I agree with ya here. While the changes that effect the stage gameplay are insanely important and I'd kill for all of the things listed above--I'd love more vanity changes as well. Castle Siege is one of my favorite stages, but there's very little special about it. Three maps: One with a few platforms, one with breakable platforms, and one with a big platform that sways. Nothing too crazy, but it -looks- great! And that's why I love playing on it.

We really need more options to adjust the look and feel of our stages. New backgrounds, objects that are just there to look at (on a layer behind, or in front of the fighting layer maybe?), weather and lighting effects, and so many other things.

It would be a huge upgrade and a huge project for the guys at Nintendo, but it would be worth it.

 

[Sarijy]

33. Item Spawn locations- Give players the ability to choose where items spawn, so we stop getting sandbags spawning on spike pits and things spawning in random locations that ruin the feel the map is supposed to have.
34. Ledge Locations- Choose to snap a ledge onto your jump through platform similar to Norfair. Add a corner to an environment block to make it more useful. Snap one to the bottom of a ladder to grab it for your life.
35. A tilting platform that can scale in 2s (Be 2 long, then 4 long, then 6 long). It would tilt up to 2 blocks up, would take up a ton of space, but would be amazing.
36. More Environment blocks- A pool (Box with an open top and water in it). Possibly just a water block that would create water that players can swim in, but cannot fight in (They can be spiked.)
37. INCREASED COMPUTER INTELLIGENCE. Countless times have mobs glitch'd up on certain parts of the map, instead of choosing to jump or walk backwards one step, they just walk into a wall constantly. Happens with various environment pieces on Olimar and Diddy Kong the most.
38&39. Unlockable Backgrounds throughout the game. Give these backgrounds NO effects. Read next point. Remove the background specifics: Colors of Blocks and Environment objects. This just limits the utility and flavors maps could have. Allow interchangability between the different backgrounds like an option on the side right next to "Walk off, and Water filled"
40. Dynamite Blocks- Deal damage to people around it when destroyed.
41.&42 The Smash Rollers- Found in Subspace Emissary, used to blow open walls or floors or enemies, could provide one that barely damages players and smashes open floors. Smash Roller Blocks- The blocks that are only destroyable by Smash Rollers.
43. Trigger Blocks- The only destroyable blocks that blow up by Dynamite Blocks, found in Subspace Emissary.
44. Rock Platform. These are the Subspace Emissary platforms that rocks fall from the top of the screen to hit.
45. Buttons- Link these to fallblocks, destructable blocks, sandblocks, dynamite blocks. They automatically trigger there action, such as cause the Fallblocks to shake, the Destructablocks to die, Sandblocks to fall apart or the Dynablocks to blow.
46. Possibily the Subspace Emissary Blue Flame torches.
Total thats 46 points of good interest. Keep the input coming.
Agreements, Disagreements, Opinions, Signs/Anti-signs?

 

[Bacon Man11]

I am an avid stagebuilder and I have a few thoughts.
I would like to make an honest to goodness discussion thread about what could specifically be done to improve the stagebuilder. But from my criticism, I love the stagebuilder and its my opinion on the best thing to happen to SSB
Common Issues are as followed.
These are my personal viewpoints. The problems can be inferred from the solutions.
This means its low to no priority
This means medium
This means high
This means First in line

Here is my list of things to state.

1. Ice Ramps/Platforms- Allows more ice based maps.
2. The fixing (Or removing) the extra blocks required around environment objects. This is fairly annoying, but not priority.
3. A timed danger that warns players: Such as picking a blank spot to be hit with a pew-pew-lazer by a robot in the backround. This is a stretch, but it would be nice.
4. X=Y movement platforms, meaning they go right and down at the same pace.
5. Fire- Usable in some form, such as make some places force your UpB renewal, but you can still fall through.
6. Vanishing Platforms- They hang around and disappear after time.
7. Sand blocks- Disappears over time, doesn't just fall. Like 5. Just they trigger after X time has passed after being touched. (Super Mario Sunshine)
8. Takeoff Platforms- Opposite of Tall Grass Platforms, they increase the launch and knockback of players.
9. Teleportation Points- Two locations with maybe little circles that teleport players.
10. Endless Pillars- Pillars that go offscreen and down or up for eternity, instead of just random floating blocks like a Super Mario Sunshine or Galaxy level.
11. Set Spawn Points- Not a huge issue. Players only spawn once, and they are random so you have a 1/4 chance of getting hurt ONCE. If the stage takes a life or permanently disables you, then theres a problem with the stage. It would be nice to control it so players don't end up in an otherwise well balanced penalty box.
12. Possibly the ability to make the stage specific objects destroyable. Gives more of a realistic and alterable feel.
13. A zip-line that gives players one-way downward movement.
14. Breakable blocks, like the Subspace Emissary and on Mushroom Kingdom
15. Tall Grass Platforms- These are my own idea: They reduce the takeoff/knockback a player gets hit by.
16. Water and Walk Off- Some people who are ultra-smashers hate any form of non 10 block long stage, but being able to make Water Stages and Walk off stages would be very nice, and it creates a nice change from the "ZOMG IMMA FALL!" sense.
17. A ladder with a platform on the top so players don't just fall after reaching the top of a ladder.
18. 90 degree rotation intervals instead of 180. Allowing players to make upside down spikes.
19. Altering Properties. I probably should have started with this. This is a number one priority in my mind. The intention allowing players to modify the current objects, choosing what has ledges that can be grapped on, how fast platforms move, how high springs send you. Etc. Spike Damage.... Yea... ETC.
20. NOT making maps online, because nobody wants to play 64 bit bowser head maps that are covered in spikes. Wastes Memory. Make it a friends only feature if it occurs.
21. Bumpers and Flippers, give makers the ability to place a light penalty/pushback.

Those are my personal viewpoints and ideas. Anyone have any other ideas/suggestions/signs/anti-signs?

I have to say, although you are new to these forums, you have excellent ideas.

 

[Sarijy]

Thank you, but I've been lurking these forums for some time, I just finally bothered to sign up.
More ideas Inc.
47. The Gl-Suffix guys, the little guys who moved around a platform and would stop to damage you with fire ice or thunder...
48. The floating blade things
49. The floating energy balls that damage you if you touch them, give a directional set of movements, IE back and forth 2 squares or up and down 2 squares.
50. Steam Platforms- Deals a bit of damage now and then to players next to the platform. Play the first 5 minutes of metroid for the SNES, the platforms on your way out.
Same old Same old...

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

The biggest problems with the stage builder (you've have already mentioned) are the lack of edge designation and extra blocks required for the unique objects... which makes them useless since they have to be so far apart and they cannot connect to anything.

 

[japtar10101]

Gravity platform. Allows you to walk on it upside down or right side up. Or sideways, too!

I was also thinking of a click-and-drag menu, not a press-a -and- control pad menu. Can't we add in a pointer sensitive UI? Hold A to place block, b to stretch block, and a+b to twist?

 

[Uncle Fitzy]

Gravity platform. Allows you to walk on it upside down or right side up. Or sideways, too!

I was also thinking of a click-and-drag menu, not a press-a -and- control pad menu. Can't we add in a pointer sensitive UI? Hold A to place block, b to stretch block, and a+b to twist?

The gravity thing would force me to remake my Death Egg stage

 

[-Mars-]

I would just like to see more than three backgrounds and I would like to see hundreds of new parts. Yes stage builder was a nice addition, but you can almost tell that nintendo hastily put it together and didn't really spend the time on it that most of us would have liked.

 

[abren]

Yea marsulas I completely agree with you. My biggest complaint with the stage builder is just the complete lack of parts. When I unlocked extra parts A, B, and C, I was expecting like 15-20 parts per pack...but instead, well I can't even tell you what they gave me because it was so minimal. I wish they would forget about creating the pre-packaged themes. Give us more backgrounds and a larger variety of blocks and let us mix and match however we want.

 

[DMG]

I think being able to make your own parts or at least to be able to greatly edit the ones they give you would be cool. Like if you don't want a straight slope you could make it curve and dip or make ladders snake in all sorts of directions. Maybe some special effect chunks of land that put a flower on your head or put you to sleep.

 

[-Mars-]

Yea marsulas I completely agree with you. My biggest complaint with the stage builder is just the complete lack of parts. When I unlocked extra parts A, B, and C, I was expecting like 15-20 parts per pack...but instead, well I can't even tell you what they gave me because it was so minimal. I wish they would forget about creating the pre-packaged themes. Give us more backgrounds and a larger variety of blocks and let us mix and match however we want.

Amen, I completely agree with you, pre-packaged themes would have been nice if they had of put more thought into them, but if your not going to put that much time into it, let us edit and create our own parts.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

How about the ability to make up-down or left-right moving platforms wider? Or change the amount that they move (say, move 2 blocks up instead of 4). I would've liked to make something similar to Melee's Fountain of Dreams.

Moving platforms that you can draw a line on the map to show the path it'll move across would be nice too. Moving platforms that disappear.

 

[Lishy]

How about more tilesets and bgs?

 

[dancingfrogman]

1. Structures shouldn't take up as much as they do! (for example 2 X 1 takes up 3 X 2 (not needed)
2. More backgrounds (as countless people have already said)
3. Make moving platforms go longer, move at an axis(just say starting point-straight line, then and diagonal line, straight line again and goes back to the start), can make complete an one way direction circuit!
4. Choose to make some slopes/ledges grabable!
5. make objects a certain colour( a bit like the springs, but a large selection of colours)
6. Switches that would do a similar thing as peaches castle SSBM
7. make something come into the stage(like bonzai bill) at a time limit, for example every 45 seconds!
I'm done for now

 

[japtar10101]

Item spawning objects, like onions or pipes, will be nice.

Also, if the could make a map editor that includes the effects of picto-chat...that will be amazing...

 

[Shackel11]

More. Fricking. Backgrounds. I mean, 3 backgrounds? What the hell man?

 

[Sarijy]

Ok, we've got a nice coherent list with good priorities.
Does anyone know if there is an update possibility or a more fit location that this list should be posted.
Agreements with these ideas show their importance, elevating the importance of fixing these issues in future games/patches.
Post it up!

 

[=Rook=]

The biggest problems with the stage builder (you've have already mentioned) are the lack of edge designation and extra blocks required for the unique objects... which makes them useless since they have to be so far apart and they cannot connect to anything.

Yes, edge designation. I've thought about this and came up with something a little while ago. Okay, so we know that there a point near the edge of a stage where we go into the "magnifying glass" and take 1% damage per second or so. For the stage builder, I would love for there to be a box that shows where this threshhold is and be able to manipulate it. In addition, another box could be used to designate where death will occur. This could A. Allow for walk off stages to be created (if that's your cup-o-tea) and B. Allow for scaling of level to be better. For example, whenever I create a level I have to remember to move it so that it's near the top so the kill ceiling isn't so high. With adjustable edge designation boxes, I can make the edges fit whatever size the stage is. Potentailly, this feature would eliminate the need to select what size stage you want to make and just default whatever the max size is. When you're done making the stage, you set the bounderies that you want and effectively "crop" the stage, cutting out the unused space.

 

[Firus]

I agree 100% with every single idea of yours.

These are many of the gripes I myself already had in mind before I entered this thread, most notably 90 degree rotation and water/walkoff.

An idea I had myself which seems rather implausible, but would be kind of interesting. You brought up a sort of starter already, with the ice ramps/platforms, but I'd be interested in combination of all kinds of pieces as well. What do I mean? Well, I mean making moving springs, moving treadmills (meaning the whole object moves), moving spikes, and that sort of thing. Obviously there would be more combinations than just making moving everything, but you get the point.

 

[Sarijy]

I think one of the simplest ways that they could provide an adequate Smash stage builder would be if they made a Wii program thats purchasable on the Wii Shop channel. Being as the Smash team already used most of the suggested blocks, I don't think it would be incredibly difficult to throw together a well designed builder that makes use of edged platforms, destructable blocks, icy ramps and much more.
This is of course assuming that the Smash team didn't include a way to update or modify the contents of the game.
The concept of altering the off screen damage's parameters is very original and I hadn't even thought of that. You could also increase the damage for certain parts of the map. This also gives me the idea of along with Water based maps, how about Lava based and acid based. (Water you can swim in and then you drown after a long time. Lava you take blast damage and get shot up, similar to spikes, but to the edges of the map. Acid you take damage as you stay in it, but it doesn't spit you out like lava or spikes. Players can be spiked through lava and acid though.)
Moving objects cause a bit more ridiculous fun, but they seem a little over the top.

 

[Firus]

I think one of the simplest ways that they could provide an adequate Smash stage builder would be if they made a Wii program thats purchasable on the Wii Shop channel. Being as the Smash team already used most of the suggested blocks, I don't think it would be incredibly difficult to throw together a well designed builder that makes use of edged platforms, destructable blocks, icy ramps and much more.
This is of course assuming that the Smash team didn't include a way to update or modify the contents of the game.
The concept of altering the off screen damage's parameters is very original and I hadn't even thought of that. You could also increase the damage for certain parts of the map. This also gives me the idea of along with Water based maps, how about Lava based and acid based. (Water you can swim in and then you drown after a long time. Lava you take blast damage and get shot up, similar to spikes, but to the edges of the map. Acid you take damage as you stay in it, but it doesn't spit you out like lava or spikes. Players can be spiked through lava and acid though.)
Moving objects cause a bit more ridiculous fun, but they seem a little over the top.

That's an awesome idea, they could release a "Brawl Stage Builder" channel, that way it could be updated if need be easily, the only problem would be that it would be difficult to go between the two since they'd be separate.

Unfortunately, considering how lazy Nintendo seems to be when it comes to this sort of thing, I don't think they'll update it or give us a new stage builder.

 

[Sarijy]

Another reference thread is:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=159719&page=2
It contains a lot of ideas already put here. I'm posting a link from their to here in that thread as well.