How to handle characters that can duck, DTilt, or even crawl under Thoron?

[Splooshi Splashy]

I don't believe a thread like this has been created here yet, so bringing up the issue surely can only help us advance the metagame, right? With the advent of the latest patch (as of the making of this topic) now making Down Smashes out of crouching and even crawling positions possible by holding or or and pressing & together, a list like this would be quite helpful in determining who to be extra mindful of when Thoron's on deck, so that we avoid giving them the chance to duck/crawl under it and either DTilt or Down Smash us off the stage for it.

Through testing of Neutral 1, 2, and especially 3 (they're all quite similar in size, so they could be thought of as one & the same, unless further testing proves otherwise), since it charges faster, here's the list of characters that can:


Duck under it: (he'd rather use Bucket, though), , / (they'd probably rather Cape it, though), (NOT ! The slight height difference actually matters! 8O), (he can Down B through it too!), (he'd rather [Forward] PSI Magnet it for health, though), and (he'd rather Pocket it, though). Now as well (but not at point blank / grab range, nor 1 or 2 steps away from grab range).


DTilt under it as well: , (both and 's DTilts advance towards you!), , , , & (for both Puff & DH, make sure you don't start DTilt when Thoron's already above you).


Crawl under it: , , (must be still or going forward, otherwise the tail's hurtbox gets nic'd), , , , , , and .

Have some other way of going under it: with Side Taunt, with Default Mechakoopas (not himself), with her roll (!), by simply running (Not only does this work against all forms of Thunder (even ArcThunder??), but if he gets close enough, he can sweetspot USmash or Up B or grab you for it)

Notable exceptions to make would be , who can stand still and block it with his actual shield, and , who can not only stand his ground with his Hylian Shield, but also walk towards you and still be able to block with his actual shield. Also, with proper timing, can Rock Smash super armor through it, as can others with super armored moves.
can apparently charge his Side 1 Hammer safely under it, and if he's close-by when Thoron has passed him by.... O_O

: Is unable to do any of the above, but his Side B can definitely reflect it.
: Is also unable to do any of the above, but he can absorb it for health with Down B, much like .
: He too cannot do any of the above, but he can Focus Attack through it (and use said FA if he's close enough to land it), and even Dash Cancel left or right afterwards if he's not close enough to land the FA. He can FADC through it in both directions in the air as well.

If I've missed someone and/or a way of going under it, please do let me (and by extension, the rest of us) know.

I may have once said that to reliably land it against those that are aware of this, you'll have to catch them in a standing or aerial action. How do we go about doing that, exactly? Especially when they're trying to bait us into throwing out Thoron on their schedule (which I'm personally guilty of doing as , , and )? Do we counterbait them into committing to an action that keeps them high & vulnerable enough for Thoron to connect? Do we use ArcThunders instead to throw off their expectations?

 

[megabbaut]

Arcfire helps a lot if you space it correctly. Sometimes Elthunder is better for spacing as well.

One thing I love doing is jumping over their heads and doing a pivot Nosferatu when they're shielding and expecting an aerial to come out. xD

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

In light of the 1.0.8 patch, I've updated this list to include all 4 DLC characters that are out as of this post. The above advice has been quite helpful in dealing with such opponents.

Of the new characters that I've tested for this list, the absolute biggest surprise was , whose FADCs can allow him to handle landing against Thoron better than some of the cast, and thus, even without the ability to go under Thoron in any way, could very well have the biggest payoff for armoring through Thoron out of everyone, considering the sheer damage & KO-ing power he can deal once he gets in. Against him, what might be our best options for dealing with his FADCs? For sure we have grabs and Nosferatu, but aside from ArcFire, Fire Wall, default/Soaring Elwind, DTilt 2x+, & Jab strings (particularly Wind Jab Ender), the amount of multi-hit moves we have are lacking.

EDIT: Robin DOES have another multi-hitting move to challenge FA, and it's ArcThunder.

EDIT 2: 1st post updated to include shocking tech regarding Little Mac that also affects Ryu's Hadoukens as well.

 

[Altais]

Personally, I rarely use Thoron at all, unless I intend for it to be a finishing move. When you fully charge, any opponent with half a brain is going to be wary, so it's hard to get them by surprise. I tend to use Thoron as an air finisher. In the air, opponents can only dodge, and since Thoron is a multi-hit beam that descends as you do, it's easier to land it so long as you time it right.

Other than that, I usually stick with Thunder and Elthunder, since they're fast and less predictable. I usually only use Arcthunder up close or as a distraction.