How to Get Synched Grabs? And Other Questions--Tournament Approaching

[Shai Hulud]

Innsomnia V is this Saturday and I'm rapidly trying to prepare my ICs for battle, so I have a few questions. First--

I'm sure this has been discussed before but perhaps not in this context. I am a wobble-heavy IC player. I expect my opponents will realize this after one or two stocks and adjust their strategy to avoid getting grabbed.

So...I know this is a very broad question and depends on specific matchups, but in general, what are some ways to trick my opponent into giving me a free grab (i.e., stock)? All I've really got right now is general shield-grabbing and wavedash => grab during attack lag. I can occasionally get a grab off a desynched blizzard. Does wavejab => grab work?

Second, at this particular tournament the stage reset rule is present for the first match. I.e., I can restart if I don't like one of the random stages. Which stage should I reset? Probably Yoshi's Story, right?

Third, if I win my first matches I expect my opponents to make very gay counterpicks, like Poke Floats. Which stages give the ICs a big disadvantage? Keep in mind I like to wobble so moving stages are not so good. I'll probably change characters if I get counterpicked by a Fox on Poke Floats. But I don't know which other stages I might need to change characters for as well.

Fourth, I expect to get A LOT of grief over my victories. I know Wobbles has a lot of experience with this. I have a playing style that has been derided as gay, cowardly, "***** tactics," etc. Fine. Whatever. At what point does an opponent's behavior become illegal? Are they allowed, for instance, to repeatedly insult me while I'm wobbling? I wouldn't even be surprised if someone paused the game. If that's the case, I believe I can insist on them losing that stock, right?

Those are all the questions I can think of for now. Other general advice welcomed.

 

[Dogysamich]

1st

Your grab game sounds pretty standard for advanced ic (which isnt a bad thing, im simply saying you're doing the RIGHT things).

I dunno if you do it or not, but Ice Block Chasers -> grab works well, too, and it has options.

If they block or get hit by the ice block, you obvious grab them, but if they jump over you can punish them with aerials or an u.smash, if they jump low enough.

I also like using Nanapaults for grabs, since that extends the range of the blizzard. But im no IC player, so I dunno how well that works in real situations.

As for wavejab -> grab, I dont know if that's a guarenteed move. However, theoretically, that could work as a moveburn (train, mindgame, etc), as long as your opponents reaction is NOT to dodge or roll.

If they get jabbed and then block, you can obviously grab them. If they try to get the advantage back and attack you, you can sometimes grab (unless they have a retardedly fast attack), in which cause you could come out with a d.smash or f.tilt or something quick.

However, the flaw in this (that i know of) is if they instinctivly dodge, in which case you'd have to not be hasty to grab. Or if they roll, in which case you'd have to chase them for the grab (which obviously can be dangerous).

___

2) Again, i'm not an IC player (you're probably sick of me saying this), so I cant really give you a true opinion about stages. As for the random ones, i'd imagine that you wouldnt want yoshi's story against heavy hitters (marth, ganon, sheik), but maybe you'd want to save your reset for something else.

Yeah Yoshi's story sucks, but it's small. Doesnt that mean Nana has more of a chance to get back? (That's a question, not a statement). So I would think that, as long as you're going against somebody who isnt real powerful, maybe you could use yoshi's story so that you can still tack on damage and not have to worry so much about saving Nana.

3) Contrary to what i said in another thread (Ima have to go back and change it), im starting to think that Corneria sounds like a bad idea for ICs. Arwing/Wolfen fire seems like it's automatically gimp Nana, most specifically at random times. It would also suck to get your wobble broken up cause Slippy is a hater.

As for real stages to avoid, i honestly dont know. Moving stages sounds like a given, but i dunno about anything else.

4) This is like, a grey area to me.

Obviously your opponent cant do anything like slap the controller out your hand, punch you, blah blah blah. But i dont think you can really do anything if he whines about it.

If he whines to the point of where it's legitimately distracting (i.e. yelling at the top of his lungs while you go from 0-death) then MAYBE, MAYBE you could call that. I dunno.

However, if he's yelling derogatory stuff (i.e. droppin slurs, im gunna stab your f*ckin --race here-- ***, and so on) then yeah, i'd expect to have something done about that.

If he were to pause the game, i'd expect something to happen from that too, cause most tournaments have stock forfeit rules for pausing (although i've never seen anybody pause a match except for people walkin in front of tvs or DIRE emergency).

___________

The only other real advice I would have for you is the bit you is; if you're already not, get proficient with a solo IC. Once you show up and wobble one, maybe two people, i bet EVERYBODY you go against will be gunning for Nana, and unless you're safer than a baserunner at a plateshop, she's gunna die sooner or later. It'd be good to be able to convert 90+ percent to a ko rather than have to use your stock to get Nana back to finish the job.

 

[Lixivium]

Does wavejab => grab work?

Jab -> grab works great against anybody that doesn't CC, and it works especially well on people who shield more than necessary. Usually the hard part is getting the jab in.

Second, at this particular tournament the stage reset rule is present for the first match. I.e., I can restart if I don't like one of the random stages. Which stage should I reset? Probably Yoshi's Story, right?

At this point you should be comfortable enough with all the random stages; none of them are really disadvantageous for the IC's. Even Yoshi's Story is okay unless you're playing Marth.

Third, if I win my first matches I expect my opponents to make very gay counterpicks, like Poke Floats. Which stages give the ICs a big disadvantage? Keep in mind I like to wobble so moving stages are not so good. I'll probably change characters if I get counterpicked by a Fox on Poke Floats. But I don't know which other stages I might need to change characters for as well.

Expect to get g@yed on Poke Floats and Rainbow Cruise, Poke Floats being the worse of the two. It's always nice to have a 2ndary handy.

Fourth, I expect to get A LOT of grief over my victories. I know Wobbles has a lot of experience with this. I have a playing style that has been derided as gay, cowardly, "***** tactics," etc. Fine. Whatever. At what point does an opponent's behavior become illegal? Are they allowed, for instance, to repeatedly insult me while I'm wobbling? I wouldn't even be surprised if someone paused the game. If that's the case, I believe I can insist on them losing that stock, right?

Sorry, but the price you pay for wobbling is to get trash-talked and insulted while you do it. It's every bit as lame as people will say it is. Block them out and keep doing it.

If they do pause the game, they should lose that stock. If they physically hit you, ask the tournament hosts to DQ them.

 

[pockyD]

i'd reset fd vs samus too x.x, to go with marth/ganon on ys or peach/jiggs on dreamland

ICs aren't inherently bad on any of the neutral stages; you just have to figure out what you want in the matchup at hand

 

[Delphiki]

Even worse than FD against Samus is Stadium against Samus. So decide how you think it's best to split up bans and resets to counter FD and Stadium. Keep in mind Stadium is much worse because they can use the Repeater Missile.

 

[Shai Hulud]

I have a pretty decent Captain Falcon. If a Samus counterpicks FD or PS I'll probably just go CF.

Thanks for the advice guys. I've been practicing my techniques a lot and I'm getting way better. I've been desynching mostly by spot-dodging during a wavedash. If you do a perfect wavedash you can complete the spot-dodge before the wavedash is finished, and if you're lucky your opponent won't even notice you did the spot-dodge. Backwards wavedodge => desynched ice block => wavedash forward owns. It all happens very quickly if you do it properly.

I asked this in another thread, but it was a pretty old thread so it might be being ignored now.

A general question about desynching--how effective is it to desynch to Nana blizzard while Popo immediately shields? It's just a lot of the time when I do a roll => desynch blizzard or something like that, they just hit Popo. I'm thinking if they don't shield and the blizzard hits, grab. If they try to attack, they may hit Nana but Popo can shield-grab. If your opponent is spaced too far to shield-grab (for instance, a Marth fsmashes you), wavedash from shield => grab.

For wavedash => jab, if my opponent spot-dodges, I should be able to just do the second part of the jab and hit them coming out of it right? Or crouch cancel and just repeat the first part...

 

[pockyD]

or just grab =)

 

[Shai Hulud]

or just grab =)

Jab comes out in four frames. Grab in seven. I guess crouch cancelling the first jab takes another frame. I don't know how long it takes for the second jab to come out. It hits on frame 18, but I can't tell exactly when the animation for the first jab ends. Looks like frame 13? In that case the second jab comes out in five frames.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Well I got back from INNsomnia last night. That was a very fun weekend.

I had mixed results with my ICs. Against some players my ICs ***** pretty hard, and against others they were almost useless. It didn't seem to be correlated to my opponents' skill, either. Just their playstyle. The very aggressive players who liked to quickly murder Nana tended to beat me rather handily, while more conservative players I could trick into getting grabs and then wobble them to death.

I probably pulled off about 100 wobbles that weekend. I was pretty gay about it. I wobbled some really good players too and they told me how gay it was. Fun times.

Most players didn't really get mad when they got wobbled. Some seemed impressed that I could start it so quickly, a few hadn't seen it and were like "WTF is going on ZOMG?" but a few also got pissed and started *****ing about how the Ice Climbers should be banned. One fat ******* was actually screaming things like "hit A! A! don't mess up!" during a tourney match (not the guy I was fighting, just this guy watching). I told him to shut the **** up.

I watched some other ICs there and learned some things. It seems my ICs went from beginner => advanced without ever learning the intermediate stuff, which makes my playstyle pretty limited since I don't know what to do in a lot of situations. I think they did pretty well considering I've only been using them for a couple weeks, though. With lots of practice they may become formidable indeed.